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He's not in a good situation by any sense of the imagination. Payton just won't commit to a hefty run game, let alone one back. People need to stop pushing this line of thought. But yes, he absolutely is talented. It's as plain as day.
I don't blame Ingram or Thomas at all for all the TB defenders penetrating a yard or two deep on almost every rushing play.
This is the same defense that got lit up last week (when they were healthy) by San Francisco.
SF has better O-Line?
Or just a better RBSF has better O-Line?
More than likely so but that doesn't explain your reply to defenders being in the backfield on most rushing plays.Or just a better RBSF has better O-Line?
Whatever -- the Saints O-line is letting them through today.
I just fail to see the upside of a RB whose O-Line can't keep a banged up D out of the backfieldMore than likely so but that doesn't explain your reply to defenders being in the backfield on most rushing plays.Or just a better RBSF has better O-Line?
You're telling me Gore is currently better than Ingram....thanks Scoop!!Or just a better RBSF has better O-Line?
Who said anything about Gore?You're telling me Gore is currently better than Ingram....thanks Scoop!!Or just a better RBSF has better O-Line?
...and 5 of the last 6 averaging under 4ypc. But, hey, for the second time this year he managed to not have the lowest ypc of the Saints RBs, so that's gotta represent some sort of upward trend...or at least a singular data point. Bottom line: he's still underutilized and underperforming compared to his stablemates when he gets touches. Maybe he needs 20 touches to get a rhythm and get productive. Payton doesn't seem that sort of coach and the Saints aren't that type of team. Short of a bye-week flex play, Sproles is the only back worth playing.
I think getting between 8-12 points is not a bad option.
this is really the story. it wasn't just ingram who couldn't run after all. brees had the pocket blown up over and over again. kruetz must be a terrific field general because he is pretty useless otherwise.
He's been terrible for two years prior.
i have heard as much. i didn't mind the signing, if kreutz was a back up, but as a starter? oof.
Kreutz is an immense part of the Saints' overall offensive issues. Opposing defensive lines, no matter how (un)talented, have owned the middle of the box all year long. Little wonder that Payton has fallen in love with Sproles running to the outside all the time.
If Ingram were on the Ravens, Steelers, or 49ers, he'd be going nuts.
I would love to know why it's taking so long for Matt Tennant to get a shot at the starting center gig. Heard anything?
There is hope -- road-grader RT Zach Strief should return soon. And maybe Tennant will get a shot at C somhow.
LB should have never turned his hips.. Bad defensive play.. Nice move by Ingram but not a telling one..
Have you considered beginning a T Richardson thread?Next week....SNF....Ingram coming out party! 100 yards and 2 Touchgoals!
Have to start him on Gore's byeIrrelevant.Although....I might be starting a Richardson HOF thread in a few months. LOL
And yet the premise of this thread was that he was a lock for the HOF because he went to the Saints.
Are you an NFL Scout?
This point keeps getting brought up, and I've yet to understand its relevance here.
So because Richardson is more talented, that somehow negates Ingram's talent? Man, that explains why we never heard anything of that Thurman Thomas guy....
Sorry, no one's got a perfect crystal ball. I'm sure your own takes don't hit 100%....One thing I didn't account for when evaluating Ingram -- and refuse to believe can continue for 16 games -- is Darren Sproles being the team's leading rusher thorugh the first four games. Ingram has passed him now (FWIW). There was no way Sproles was going to be able to sustain a 200-touch workload while returning kicks & punts. Sproles got but one carry (for 16 yds) against the Buccaneers -- makes me wonder if his role is being purposely curtailed.Another thing I didn't account for was the regression of the Saints' O-line, as discussed upthread. It's not just Kreutz and fill-in RT Charles Brown, though -- I don't think any of the five are holding up there end in the run game.
forte and peterson=2.
And while you can say that other guys had "uncertain futures", guys like Jackson and Rice had stupendous YPC averages, unlike Ingram.
I thought the Saints were a perfect fit. Looks like I was wrong. I figured that moving up in the draft to get him would mean that Payton had big plans. He probably still does, but at this point he hasn't given Ingram a ton of carries to prove it.Also, the run-blocking has been far better in previous years than this year. It's not as if any other RB has been setting the backfield on fire either. Make excuses or not, when you get hit the minute you get the ball, your effectiveness is going ot diminish. Marshawn Lynch is a great example. I'm convinced that he is a much better RB than he has ever had the chance to prove, due to horrible blocking his entire career. I'm no longer drinking the "perfect situation" koolaid, and was definitely in the wrong on that one. But my opinion of Ingram hasn't changed a bit and I think that he will still be a stud. Just the perfect build for a RB. Looks like a mack truck out there, and is far more elusive than your usual "power runner".A quick word about Richardson. Richardson is perhaps the best college RB I've ever seen. Reminds me of Bo Jackson. Why? The blend of speed and power. He NEVER goes down on first contact, and yet if he finds a seam he is gone. But that doesn't diminish the fact that I think Ingram is an amazing pro. Richardson will certainly be more flashy, but Ingram could end up with the better career, depending on circumstances.And the comparisons to Rudi Johnson are horrible, btw. Nothing similar about their games.
Of note is that Saints' GM Mickey Loomis played a financial game of chicken with former Saints C Jonathan Goodwin. The 49ers stepped in and swiped Goodwin from under the Saints' noses. Now, Frank Gore looks like a new man, and the Saints are limping along with the physically-shot Kreutz.
Not really. In my league, he's basically scored double digits 3/6 weeks (if you count 9.8 as being close enough to 10). With his worst weeks being the first two, which is predictable for a rookie, that's 3 out of the last 4 weeks with double-digit production. Not much more than 10, mind you, but its still double-digits. I think its reasonable to expect that he gets more involved, rather than less, as the year goes on.
Agreed. Thus far, his production certainly hinges on him getting the TD, but I dont see how his touches/yardage goes down. He's been a serviceable flex/low-end RB2 for the last month because of the TDs
Ingram owners should keep a close eye on the Saints' center situation. When Kreutz got hurt for a couple games, he was replaced by some guy named Brian De La Puente who has been on like 6 different teams in 3 years and DLP noticeably outperformed him.If Kreutz is benched (and I suspect he will be soon), the Saints run productivity will go up.
Jennings, as in Greg? I think I would feel pretty good to get that in return as well...Anyway, I too am forced to start him this week with byes and injuries. If he can't get it done this week in a game they should be up in and against a hapless Colts run D then he may not be worth much this season.
The guy who drafted Reggie Bush as a rookie kept him every year (we keep six) until his trade to Miami.
