SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Makes so much more sense for the Saints to sign the likes of Mangold.
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Mark Ingram (1 Viewer)
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
If Ingram is unhappy and not making it a secret - which is completely plausible given the rocky relationship he has had with the coaching staff and the offseason moves - then moving him for a quality center when theirs is out for 6 weeks makes plenty of sense to me. If Ingram doesn't want to be there, then they should get him out. They have viable alternatives, and he is costing them $5M on top of being disgruntled.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
He hasn't shown any signs of being disgruntled this offseason. We don't even know what the Saints have in Peterson at this point. It would be foolish of them to make this trade considering Unger will be back a month after the season starts.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
You are 100% right. We haven't seen signs this offseason. We did see them last season though, and given the moves this offseason, I would be pissed if I were him, so I am just making an assumption that he may be disgruntled, and that may have something to do with these rumors.
I think if they put Unger on PUP he has to miss 6 games. He isn't on it, but the article suggested that he was heading for it. If not, then you have a great point - they should just find a band aid. Maybe there is concern that he will miss more time than they are letting on.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
His state of being disgruntled last season was his own fault. He needs to learn to hang onto the ball better in certain situations. His frustration might have been more to do with his shortcomings. I don't see any logical reason for him to be disgruntled heading into this season. He's not going to make any more $$ somewhere else. Having Peterson or any other back there only lengthens his career and makes his chances better to win a championship. Philly is in no way in a better situation than NO. Plus, Ingram can't stay healthy a full season. He needs a compliment to share time with.
The writer of that article needs to check his math, trading Ingram would result in a 3.79M dead cap hit. Kelce has a $5M base salary so it would cost the saints $3.5M more against the cap unless they restructured Kelce after trading for him and spread some of that $5M out to future years.
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
#freemarkingram
Casting Couch
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
Dude should've asked to be traded the minute Peterson was signed. It's been said many times over the past year and a half, Sean Payton hates Mark Ingram.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I've ended up with Ingram the last couple seasons. I'm trying to stay away this season, but something tells me he's going to fall into the mid rounds this year and the value may be too good to pass up.
waterworld
Footballguy
Most maddening situation in the league.
Ingram >>> Peterson
Ingram >>> Peterson
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Maybe, Peterson didn't really play last season. I'll take the 2007-2015 version of AD over Ingram all day. It's very possible age has caught up with him but we really have no idea until we see him play.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
The A.P. signing was a clear indication the Saints were throwing in the towel for 2017. Of ALL the players they could have signed, they signed an over-the-hill player and one of the few positions they had covered. This was clearly pandering to fill the seats 
I loved A.P. in his prime, but the reality is he is done. Whats next, bring back Icky Woods and Jim Brown?
This was a P.R/Sell Tickets move, and not a let's win games move.
I think at the end of the day, the Saints go 3-13, A.P. spends more time on the training table than the field, and Ingram gives you 1,100 yards and 8-10 TD's.
I loved A.P. in his prime, but the reality is he is done. Whats next, bring back Icky Woods and Jim Brown?
This was a P.R/Sell Tickets move, and not a let's win games move.
I think at the end of the day, the Saints go 3-13, A.P. spends more time on the training table than the field, and Ingram gives you 1,100 yards and 8-10 TD's.
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
The A.P. signing was a clear indication the Saints were throwing in the towel for 2017. Of ALL the players they could have signed, they signed an over-the-hill player and one of the few positions they had covered. This was clearly pandering to fill the seats
I loved A.P. in his prime, but the reality is he is done. Whats next, bring back Icky Woods and Jim Brown?
This was a P.R/Sell Tickets move, and not a let's win games move.
I think at the end of the day, the Saints go 3-13, A.P. spends more time on the training table than the field, and Ingram gives you 1,100 yards and 8-10 TD's.
The Saints in no way are throwing in the towel. They've had an outstanding offseason. Addressed every need in the draft. They desperately needed a 1-2 punch at RB like in '09 with PT and Bush. That's some serious trolling right there.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
HOOOOOOOMMMMMEEEEERRRRRRR
The Saints in no way are throwing in the towel. They've had an outstanding offseason. Addressed every need in the draft. They desperately needed a 1-2 punch at RB like in '09 with PT and Bush. That's some serious trolling right there.
Maybe they could have spent the $$$ on a defensive player to help the work defense in the league? Keep living of dream of the 2009 season! 4 of the last 5 years have been 7-9. Your roster has regressed and they are relying on Drew Brees and now A.P. of keep the stadium full. As a Packer fan, I can't relate since every season=Playoffs. That's how a good organization is run.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Ahh...... Packer fan. No wonder. Hope you guys make the playoffs. Should be easy in your cupcake division. We'll whoop that ### like last time we met in the playoffs in '09. And AP will have a hell of a day as always. You're seriously on crack with that bull#### assessment. Defense has been addressed. The only question mark is pass rush. Hopefully we can avoid the injury bug on that side of things.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
And yes I'm a Homer. That means I've actually paid attention to the off-season moves that have made the team better. Now I understand why you think the AP signing was bad. And you're an idiot for that assessment.
need2know
Footballguy
3-13? With Brees they will never be that bad. 8-8 at worst and will prob be better than that pushing for a playoff spot. That division is tough as hell thoughThe A.P. signing was a clear indication the Saints were throwing in the towel for 2017. Of ALL the players they could have signed, they signed an over-the-hill player and one of the few positions they had covered. This was clearly pandering to fill the seats
I loved A.P. in his prime, but the reality is he is done. Whats next, bring back Icky Woods and Jim Brown?
This was a P.R/Sell Tickets move, and not a let's win games move.
I think at the end of the day, the Saints go 3-13, A.P. spends more time on the training table than the field, and Ingram gives you 1,100 yards and 8-10 TD's.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am far from a Saints homer, but yeah, they aren't tanking. They might not have a great year, but they are trying to squeeze what they can out of this team and the end Drew Brees. The Cooks trade was questionable, but they did have a strong offseason: Warford, Ramczyk, Kamara, Lattimore, Ginn were all positive additions IMO. I don't think they are going to be a playoff team, but they aren't tanking.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I love Ingram's value this year as well. It looks like his ADP is 6th round according to ff calculator which is a screaming value. When I have mocked recently, he seems to be going in the 4th though. Assuming Peterson is even 75% of his old self, he will steal some GL carries (but remember Peterson has a history of fumbling and Payton doesn't like that). The guy to watch is Kamara though. If Kamara isn't ready for regular work, it means Ingram is going to soak up a ton of receptions which means he will likely be a nice value for fantasy.
need2know
Footballguy
I am feeling the same way. Alot of times mocking I wait until the 6th or later for my rb2 and Ingram is sitting there almost every time. Hard to pass that up, even with Peyton's craziness. I am not a believer in AP though
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You can think it was a poor choice of resources - but why would you think the team is throwing in the towel with Brees being 38/39 years old? If they were throwing in the towel they likely would have moved Brees and not "wasted" money on a 31 year old RB.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I believe in his talent but it kind of reminds me of a few years ago when the fantasy community was way to optimistic about Rashad Jennings in NY. He was the most talented back but the team brought in a short yardage runner(Williams) and a 3rd down back(Vereen). The Saints spent significant capital in both Peterson/Kamara so it's hard for me to imagine they don't use both of them a significant amount. And if it really is a three headed monster at RB I don't think Peterson or Ingram will be much of a value if both of them are healthy. Kamara goes way behind either of them in every draft I've been in and given the Peyton has used short passes as running plays in the past I think he may be the real value in this group(at least in ppr).
hoffman0001
Footballguy
They could have signed quality STARTERS for their defense with the $$ they spend on A.P. to be a part-time RBBC player. This was about filling the seats and keeping the fans dreaming that this is a competitive roster.
Next year Brees will be gone, AP will be retired and the coach will be elsewhere. Saints fans should role out their 2009 game tapes and watch those this year, it will be a bad season in that division.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
They have been spending resources on offense instead of defense for years now. Common sense would dictate for the past decade they spend almost their entire draft and FA on defense based on the discrepancy between the two units. I don't see how this year is any different.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
Again, this proves my point, since 2009, they have been in cap trouble so it's all about putting butts in the seats and not winning a title. Every year they make moves that make no football sense just to get the fans excited.
Mark Ingram wants to prove he's NFL's 'most complete back'
He's saying all the right things, which has to be difficult considering how Payton keeps royally screwing him.
He's saying all the right things, which has to be difficult considering how Payton keeps royally screwing him.
He's signed through 2018, so you have at least this year and next of suffering. He does have an "out" for next year, but that would have required making 2 pro bowls in the last 3 years or being all-pro this year. Had a decent chance to reach the pro bowl one with any other coach, but certainly not Payton...
Are you sure about this? Spotrac says his 2018 contract voids if he makes the pro bowl in any prior season.
Then you have this conflicting info from this article,http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/mark_ingrams_new_contract_incl.html : ESPN reported Ingram would have the option to void the final year of his contract after the 2017 season if he makes the Pro Bowl twice during the first three years or is an All-Pro selection in 2017. NOLA.com reported Ingram could void the contract if he makes the Pro Bowl at least once in the next three seasons or is an All-Pro selection in 2017.
So ESPN is saying what you are saying, Spotrac and Nola.com are indicating he can void his contract on just one Pro Bowl which if true means he at least has a fighting chance to get free after this season.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
While that may be true, I would also say that.....
Adrian Peterson>>>>>>Andre Williams
... and this is subjective because we haven't seen him against NFL competition yet but given what we have seen out of Vereen there's a good chance.....
Kamara>>>>>>>Vereen
More importantly though, it doesn't really matter what you and I think. I would have thought N.O. had enough holes all around it's roster it should have used Ingram as their every down back and use those resources elsewhere but THEY do not.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ingram has had his share of nicks, they don't use bellcow approach under Payton and they employ 3 pretty skilled RB's for a grand total of around $8M.
Some of you are thinking of this from a fantasy angle and you got it all wrong. From a real football angle this is called a bargain and absolutely ideal roster management when you can have Ingram/Peterson/Kamara for about $8M.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
But just putting it in terms of money is being a bit disingenuous. They gave up MORE than a 2nd rounder to take Kamara, which probably says something about how they plan to use Peterson/Ingram.
At least on my part I am talking about the RB situation from a fantasy perspective and the relative value of those three players. But overall even from a football perspective given that they had Ingram/Peterson/Cadet and not the best OL in the world and holes seemingly all over the defense I think they would have been wise to address another position. It's almost as if the Saints front office addresses the team from a fantasy football perspective. Ellington would have been an interesting fit in that role for under $1mil. Hightower already knew that offense(and had been effective for stretches) and could have been had for next to nothing.
The draft capital is worth more than Peterson/Kamara are making combined in salary.
So you've moved on from being critical of them for signing Peterson to killing them for obtaining Kamara? I can't keep up where this is going. They love Kamara and he's perfect fittheir offense and scheme which likes to use 2-3 RB's and he's also young and under a cheap third round contract for 4 years when Peterson and Ingram will be gone. It's team building 101.
Cadet and Ellington may not even make a roster. Please.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Actually, I've moved on from saying that I'm not so sure Ingram is a good fantasy football value because they went out of their way to acquire both Peterson/Kamara. So if it seems like some of us are looking at this from a fantasy football angle.... we are. As we type out posts on a fantasy football website.
In terms of real football I'm not saying Ellington or Cadet are as good a player Kamara, don't get me wrong. But I do question if a starting defensive player could have been acquired for the price of having a better #3 RB. In fact earlier I was the one saying Kamara is the best fantasy option in this three headed RB situation because he is cheapest.
We simply disagree because in the ACME team building 101 course I took you need a QB to compete for anything and it appears to me N.O. is treating this season like on last gasp with Brees at QB by signing guys like Peterson/Ginn to play major roles in the offense. I think RB's come and go. You can get one with upside in the draft every year and you can get a solid one without breaking the bank in FA nearly every year.
You might be surprised but it wasn't too long ago some people had a very, very high opinion of Ellington. I'm not sure he's fundamentally a different player than he was then.
I'm never 100% sure on these things because the details can be conflicted (as you can see), but I know when he first signed it was reported that he had to make it twice. He did agree to restructure prior to last season (shifting some salary to bonus to help the cap), so perhaps he negotiated it down to 1 then? Either way, IMO he isn't likely to make the pro bowl this year either as Payton won't give him enough of an opportunity.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Kamara's role will either mean Ingram is worthless or Ingram is still getting 50% of rushes and a ton of receptions.
