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Marriage advice (3 Viewers)

proninja said:
You sound a lot like me before I got divorced. 

I have since remarried a wonderful woman, have a kid and another on the way, and life is heaps better. 
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Proninja is Exhibit A of how to do this right. 

 
Help Wanted said:
Thanks for all the comments. Still a lot to sift through and think about. 

For those who say counseling - would you recommend individual counseling with the same or different people? If the same person, is that who you would recommend also going to joint counseling with? 

For those who say divorce - I wouldn't even know where to start other than looking up reviews and calling. What questions should be asked, what costs am I looking at, etc. ? 

For those who say work out and diet, I am on it. 
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I suggest different counselors/therapists across the board.  Start with your own individual therapist since you cannot control your wife's participation in either her own therapy or joint marriage counseling.  Talking to someone can be helpful.  I do suggest that you solicit blunt observations and criticisms.  Sometimes therapists manage their message in an attempt to validate, but it could be mistaken that they are always agreeing with you.

I suggested marriage counseling in particular and others chimed in that you and your wife will probably not get anything out of it and that you should each focus on individual therapy.  They have a point and this was kind of true in my case.  Marriage counseling did not improve my relationship, so if "get anything out of it" is a measure of improvement, then indeed I got nothing out of it.  However, that was not my gauge of getting anything out of it.  I actually got a TON out of it: closure.  To have a professional who has dealt with hundreds of marriages over the course of a long career tell me that I gave an honest effort, but my the marriage is likely doomed because she's showing no signs of doing the same went a long way towards me getting right with the idea of divorce.  I know plenty here will say, "Save yourself the bill...you know the MC will come to the same conclusion we've all come to" and while the crowd-sourced therapy is greatly appreciated, it's not the same as hearing it from your MC.

As for divorce lawyers, ask friends for references.  If that comes up empty, then move onto various divorce forums and ask members there for recommendations, the types of questions to ask, etc.  But before you hire someone, you also need to decide how you want to handle your divorce.  Do you want to just negotiate with your wife and have lawyers simply become paperwork reviewers and filers?  Do you want to seek mediation?  Or do you want to go the full go-to-court route?  Of course you have to understand that your wife has a huge say in this.  No matter what, your divorce will be so much more straightforward than most with just 5 years under your belt and without the most emotionally charged issue: custody.  Relatively speaking, you're golden as far as divorce situations go.  Don't worry too much about this.

 
James Daulton said:
Abraham said:
I don't think I had sex with my wife 17 times in the last decade. 
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I can't believe married people live like this.  I know they do, it's just sad.
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While I'd agree for us, if Abraham and Mrs. Abe are content, :shrug: whatever works for them.  

We've had rough patches over the past two decades but nothing to that degree which was long lasting. A few months due to stress or whatever, a year after a kid was born, those things happen.  But yeah, not 2 times per year for a decade.

 
Sweet J said:
They have sex 4 times a year.  That's enough.

Oh, and the MINUTE she starts to get a sniff that he's maybe sorta kinda thinking about leaving, the birth control kids are going down the toilet and they are going to have a LOT of sex.  Until she gets pregnant.  I've been down that road before. 
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I have a strong suspicion that if she does get pregnant, he'll want to do a paternity test.

 
FUBAR said:
While I'd agree for us, if Abraham and Mrs. Abe are content, :shrug: whatever works for them.  

We've had rough patches over the past two decades but nothing to that degree which was long lasting. A few months due to stress or whatever, a year after a kid was born, those things happen.  But yeah, not 2 times per year for a decade.
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Abe and Mrs. Abe are almost done with the divorce process. 

 
There are a lot of people out there who divorced their spouse because they thought it would improve their life. Sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn't. There are a lot divorced people who regret their divorce or at least wish they would have tried a bit harder before throwing the towel in. You can always get a divorce, my advice to you is to exhaust every option before giving up. I'd try marriage counseling, personal counseling, nofap, etc...

 
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sublimeone said:
There are a lot of people out there who divorced their spouse because they thought it would improve their life. Sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn't. There are a lot divorced people who regret their divorce or at least wish they would have tried a bit harder before throwing the towel in. You can always get a divorce, my advice to you is to exhaust every option before giving up. I'd try marriage counseling, personal counseling, nofap, etc...
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It's true that you can always get a divorce, but in this case, he should get a divorce right away for a number of reasons, the greatest being that they don't have children together.  Another reason he should do it yesterday is that being married only 5 years won't cost him all that much in spousal support.  

Would think a poll about people who divorced and their views on it post-divorce would be interesting.  I would bet there's more happy people post-divorce than those with regret, but I could be wrong.

 
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not, but don't get her pregnant!

Sounds a lot like my marriage in the beginning but in my case there WERE kids involved.  I've been married for 17 years now.  And my wife is my best friend.  We have a great sex life, and have a blast together.  But for the first 5-7 years, it sounded A LOT like what you were going through.  Honestly, I would have divorced her a thousand times if it were't for the kids.  In my case we had a turn around that I can't explain or even begin to tell you how to duplicate it.  We were both immature.  And both very unrealistic in our expectations. 

I don't know where it changed.  Maybe when she developed cancer and things got very real?  Or maybe we just both realized one day that what we did have was pretty good and to stop acting like #######s?  In my relationship, staying was the right choice and I'm glad we didn't give up on each other.
 

Now all that being said, divorce her NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW, NOW!  While my relationship is a sucess story, I'd say it is an EXTREME exception! Don't let anyone with a story like mine plant seeds into your head that this CAN work out. BS.  The odds are extremely unlikely that you guys will find the magic pixie dust that will make things do a complete 180.  Life is too short to spend unhappy!  Don't hold out hope that some how, some way things will become awesome!  If we hadn't had kids, we would have gotten divorced and I'm sure that life would have gone on for both of us and we would have matured enough to make our "next" marriage work.

Hide money, move on, and enjoy the REST of your life.  You are 33.  Tomorrow isn't promised to any of us. 

 
mr. furley said:
today i learned there's a sliding scale for alimony based on years of marriage :(
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Depends on the state, but what I recall is that 10 years is the magic threshold.  Once you get past 10 years, you're going to get financially soaked for spousal support if you earned more than she did and especially if she gave up a career to be a mom....even if she lost a bunch of weight and started banging the A/C repair man.  Prior to 10 years, I think many states will halve the number of years you've been married for spousal support, so if married 5 years, expect to pay 2.5 years of alimony.  

YMMV....TL;DR if you want to get divorced, do it before 10 years.

 
sublimeone said:
There are a lot of people out there who divorced their spouse because they thought it would improve their life. Sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn't. There are a lot divorced people who regret their divorce or at least wish they would have tried a bit harder before throwing the towel in. You can always get a divorce, my advice to you is to exhaust every option before giving up. I'd try marriage counseling, personal counseling, nofap, etc...
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Sure, but I'd guess the huge chunk of those people are guys that now pay through the nose in alimony/child support and don't get to see their kids enough. Their real regret in those cases is not getting divorced soon enough.

 
My wife just read the op. 

Her advice, get out and don't have kids.  Even if you stay together don't have kids.  Keep in mind, we have 4 kids, another one on the way.  

 
General Malaise said:
Depends on the state, but what I recall is that 10 years is the magic threshold.  Once you get past 10 years, you're going to get financially soaked for spousal support if you earned more than she did and especially if she gave up a career to be a mom....even if she lost a bunch of weight and started banging the A/C repair man.  Prior to 10 years, I think many states will halve the number of years you've been married for spousal support, so if married 5 years, expect to pay 2.5 years of alimony.  

YMMV....TL;DR if you want to get divorced, do it before 10 years.
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In Illinois, up to 5 years it's 20% of the number of months and the amount is 30% of payer's income - 20% of the receiver's income. Permanent maintenance doesn't kick in until 20 years.

 
xulf said:
What do you do that requires you to work so much?  Those hours suck and can't be helping anything.
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Teacher/Coach from August-May, run a separate business that operates only in the summer. 

comfortably numb said:
Square peg in round hole.

You made a mistake in marrying the wrong person. Don't make another mistake of wasting 5 more years of trying to fix that mistake.

Men are stupid so I will continue to echo the obvious.  Having kids will NOT help or save your marriage. No matter how much quicker one you may think this.
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Maybe so. If we go the counseling route, which we talked about today, we definitely won't waste another 5 years doing it, and we won't have kids. 

Otis said:
Best line: "Sex life non-existent and has been since before we got married. I guess I thought it would change when we got hitched."

OOF 
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Yeah, I know. 

 
eoMMan said:
Height and weight of both parties? 
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She's 5'6 size 0 or 1

I'm 6'3, 230 - not huge but not in great shape

bananafish said:
I'll just echo the urge for individual counseling. It will probably end up negating the need for couples therapy in the end, anyways, as he realizes this unhappy marriage is unsalvagable and probably not worth saving to begin with, along with many other intangible benefits like self-esteem and just having an ally and sounding board. Someone in your corner.
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Thanks. Regarding counseling, since it has been mentioned a lot, we talked tonight and agreed that we needed to do something. She wasn't a fan of the individual counseling, so I'm not sure if she will do that or not - but I will be doing it. We will see what happens, I don't think either of us are confident that it will work but we are both willing to give it a try and see. 

pats3in4 said:
While the details are different, I started a similar thread almost 4 years ago so I know where you're coming from.  I got some great advice and support from the FFA then and I'm glad to see that the FFA continues to come through in these tough-to-start threads.  A lot of good stuff has already been posted, including the tough-love ones (which are often the best).  If I had to add or emphasize anything, particularly in light of what I've learned these past 4 years...

- Be the person you want to be.  Lose weight for the sake of your own health and appearance.  Help out more around the house because you take pride in your home.  Take your wife out to dinner more often because it's sounds more fun than eating leftovers.  Do NOT do these things to placate your wife or keep an imaginary scorecard of who's the better spouse.  If you decide to make changes for yourself and your wife responds positively, then great.  If she is indifferent or doesn't like the changes, then oh well.  Perhaps there is someone else out there who will like you for who you are (and trust me...there is).

- Take your vow seriously and seek marriage counseling.  And understand that counseling is a process.  You have to commit to several sessions to give the MC a chance to see patterns and underlying issues.  The first few sessions are just he said-she said and the MC has no real clue what's going on.  Also, be open to criticism.  It's easy to want to blame all the marriage woes on your wife.  The MC will likely open your eyes to something you could be doing better.  Sometimes a lot better.

- The little-to-no sex thing was a 100-foot red flag you ignored and considering it was there from the beginning, expecting drastic changes there is naive.  Sexual compatibility is an important component in a marriage and don't let anybody guilt you into thinking it isn't, that such thinking is shallow.  You're looking at a legitimate deal breaker.

- Divorce may have been the hardest decision I've ever made.  It's also looking like one of the best.  And I have kids.  Without kids, it's a no-brainer in hindsight.  It's easy to say that in hindsight, though.  The fear of the unknown was crippling at the time.

Good luck to you.
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Thanks for the advice - there have been some great thoughts in this thread and it is always good to have people to bounce ideas off of and call you out on your BS. 

Otis said:
Also you're 33, have no kids, and on the verge of single. Dude, get in shape.  You have no excuse.
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You are right, I'm working on it.

Sabertooth said:
When's the last time you tried to hump her?  
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Probably a couple months ago. At some point you just stop trying, and as another poster stated - sex is a two way street so we are both at least somewhat to blame in this department. 

Rirruto said:
I can respect you giving it 3 more months to try and work things out. I think you can also work on improving yourself over that time. Women are 1000 times better than guys in end of the relationship situations. A woman in your situation would either have the next dude picked out or would at least be taking huge self improvement steps. A lot of the guys I know in your situation know it's coming, but don't do anything about it and end up depressed and mopey right after it ends. Here's what I'll do after my next big breakup.

1. Go see a divorce lawyer now. For all you know, walking into his office gives you new perspective and really makes you work to stick it out over the next few months. Or it might do the opposite.

2. Start getting into shape. Do P90x. Start going to the gym and lifting. Start taking BJJ classes. Whatever. Find something that works for you. In any scenario, having some physical activity is going to increase your happiness and overall mental health. You're going through a difficult time, and you deserve to get better.

3. Pick up some hobbies outside of work and your wife. This certainly goes hand-in-hand with the above. Bird watching, yoga, rock climbing, martial arts, stamp collecting. It doesn't matter. Spend some time on yourself.

4.. Pick up a decent camera. You can either buy one or borrow one. Get some good pictures of yourself. You want a few of you looking hot as ####. Anyone looks good if you take enough photos. Your confidence is going to go up just by seeing yourself look great. You want a few more of you doing cool stuff. Go skydiving. They take your picture during the jump. The goal is to get some pictures that you might use later, but in the mean time you're jumping out of airplanes or skiing or hiking or whatever. 

If you fix your marriage in the next 90 days, this is all just gravy. If your marriage does not work out, you download Tinder and Bumble. You've got killer pictures of you looking great and doing cool #### that are high quality. Making the out of focus cell phone selfies and sad, desperate profiles that you're competing against look awful in comparison. Either way you're in shape, you've picked up new activities that are enjoyable, and you've had life experiences that you otherwise wouldn't. 
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1. I guess I will look into some options and see what happens. 

2. Working on it. I have done p90x and Crossfit in the past, so might pick one of those back up. 

3. I live by the ocean and I've always wanted to pick up kayaking. Kinda expensive to get started though.

 
I am finalizing my divorce from a very similar situation.  My wife finally told me that she has held a grudge for the last few years from a few fights we had so she had lost her sexual interest (not sure how this is possible).  Before we got married it was a struggle but bearable.  I should have known then.  I basically told her to get over it or get out.  She will be moving on Sunday and I cannot be happier.  I tried for years to get her to go to counseling which she refused.  At this point I just want to be happy and it is obvious it wont be with her.  I am looking forward to my life going forward  where I was just treading water before.  Time to cut bait and run imo.

 
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tommyboy said:
sounds like a divorce would actually benefit both of you.   

doesn't sound like you're getting anything out of this marriage.
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End of thread, no reason to keep going but I will...

I had a terrible gaffe in my marriage due to my own stupidity and somehow we managed to work thru it but we never had true money problems...oh we were poor for a few years but it was fun and some of our best times were when we had no money, much simpler. Our sex life is usually good when MOP gets his chores done...nothing turns my wife on more than a clean house, fresh sheets and MOP vacuuming in his underwear while she lays in the brown leather chaise lounge eyeballing me like a Chippendale.

She make a no money and she give a you a no noogie, you must a cut the beech loose.     

 
cstu said:
You wouldn't be putting up with this if she was a behemoth.
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Somewhat irrelevant, because she isn't attractive to me anymore - she isn't a whale, but the length of time it has been since there has been any physical interaction has really dulled this all for me. It has less to do with what her picture looks like and more to do with the lack of any connection at this moment. 

 
Not sure why I can't quote a quote, but I am 99.99999 percent sure she isn't cheating on me. We moved to my hometown, she doesn't know anybody, and she works from home. She hasn't had many opportunities to meet anybody, and I don't believe she has the motivation at this point to go out and do that. I could certainly be wrong, as she has done it before (although it was when I lived 8 hours away). 

 
Help Wanted said:
Not sure why I can't quote a quote, but I am 99.99999 percent sure she isn't cheating on me. We moved to my hometown, she doesn't know anybody, and she works from home. She hasn't had many opportunities to meet anybody, and I don't believe she has the motivation at this point to go out and do that. I could certainly be wrong, as she has done it before (although it was when I lived 8 hours away). 
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That can trigger depression.  We've moved seven times in the past 17 years.  Every time is a challenge until she got involved in the community.  This doesn't seem to be the whole problem but it can't help. 

 
FUBAR said:
That can trigger depression.  We've moved seven times in the past 17 years.  Every time is a challenge until she got involved in the community.  This doesn't seem to be the whole problem but it can't help. 
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Yeah, be tried to get her out to do stuff with people but she mostly just wants to stay home. She did join some women's group/club thing but she hasn't done anything with them yet. 

 
Help Wanted said:
Not sure why I can't quote a quote, but I am 99.99999 percent sure she isn't cheating on me. We moved to my hometown, she doesn't know anybody, and she works from home. She hasn't had many opportunities to meet anybody, and I don't believe she has the motivation at this point to go out and do that. I could certainly be wrong, as she has done it before (although it was when I lived 8 hours away). 
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Tinder down?

 
Reading between the lines, it seems you aren't attracted to her anymore.  It does not appear to be her weight, since she is small (unless she is too small).  If you aren't having sex, you're not sure if you think it is worth the effort anymore, but you "love language" is physical intimacy, get out.  Get out now.  There is nothing to salvage anymore.

Just my amateur opinion.  All relationships are difficult and take work, but most that are worth working at have some good qualities to them that make the hard work worth it.  I don't see where what is worth salvaging.

 
Think of it this way, at your age, assuming you're not horrendous, you'll be right in the sweet spot to still get young babes who have a thing for an older dude, and also get to take advantage of the women your own age whose sex drive is starting to really ramp up.

Aside from the no sex thing for 5 years, you couldn't have played this any better.

 
Help Wanted said:
Yeah, be tried to get her out to do stuff with people but she mostly just wants to stay home. She did join some women's group/club thing but she hasn't done anything with them yet. 
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I mentioned above, she could have depression.  Get her help and the right meds and it will be dots like usual (never before for you two).

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I mentioned above, she could have depression.  Get her help and the right meds and it will be dots like usual (never before for you two).
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What about before they got married? They didn't seem to be terribly happy then either. You're suggesting he try to stick it out. Why the hell should he? They aren't a fit, period. Everyone sees it. No kids. Sounds like he's just staying because well he took a vow. Poorest reason. He needs to get out and not feel this guilty thing he seems to be feeling, and now. Many women have depression. They need to help themselves once given the tools and direction to do so. He's not going to fix it and being they aren't a match to begin with, I'd hate to see the depression card be played in keeping him with her.

 
CurlyNight said:
What about before they got married? They didn't seem to be terribly happy then either. You're suggesting he try to stick it out. Why the hell should he? They aren't a fit, period. Everyone sees it. No kids. Sounds like he's just staying because well he took a vow. Poorest reason. He needs to get out and not feel this guilty thing he seems to be feeling, and now. Many women have depression. They need to help themselves once given the tools and direction to do so. He's not going to fix it and being they aren't a match to begin with, I'd hate to see the depression card be played in keeping him with her.
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She could have been depressed for a long time.  I'm with you on the 'get out now' bandwagon, but the OP seems to be looking for a reason to stay.  

It's also hard for me to be objective about depression in marriage.  As I said above, my wife has major depression.  There were a few years early in our marriage where I wasn't sure we would stick it out.  Now we're both really happy.  She is on the right medicines and gets regular counseling.  I'm glad I didn't leave back then, but also I don't think my marriage was ever as bad as his is.

 
I'm not looking for a reason to stay, I'm looking for ways we could become happy. Maybe there aren't any, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel without exhausting what appears to be very limited options (counseling). 

 
Help Wanted said:
I'm not looking for a reason to stay, I'm looking for ways we could become happy. Maybe there aren't any, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel without exhausting what appears to be very limited options (counseling). 
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If you have time, check out this site.   www.depressionfallout.com

 
Help Wanted said:
I'm not looking for a reason to stay, I'm looking for ways we could become happy. Maybe there aren't any, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel without exhausting what appears to be very limited options (counseling). 
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Do you have a pattern of codependent behavior? Are you a fixer/solver/mender of broken people? Do you feel like she'll fall apart without you? 

 
You could be happy sooner if you get a divorce now. 

I've been on the "maybe things will get better" treadmill for years - same ####, different decade.  Things might improve for a while, but then they will slowly get back to this point again- except that it will be 8 years into the marriage.  At least that's been my experience.

 
Steeler said:
You could be happy sooner if you get a divorce now. 

I've been on the "maybe things will get better" treadmill for years - same ####, different decade.  Things might improve for a while, but then they will slowly get back to this point again- except that it will be 8 years into the marriage.  At least that's been my experience.
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Maybe so, but it sounds like you understand how hard it is to actually call it quits. 

Mate you unhappily married? Divorced? 

 
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