Martyball no more? (1 Viewer)

[trader jake]

A new untried coaching candidate gets the benift of the doubt. If the Chargers hire Turner, he may be successful, but it will be a Barry Switzer kind of successful. I think Art Shell is a better choice for them. And yes, I mean that.

Marty has his issues and I can't argue with many who bash his ability to get teams to the next level. Art Shell isn't half the coach Shotty is.The Raiders have issues but if Marty took them over right now he'd have them in the playoffs within three seasons. Of course they wouldn't win a playoff game...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

:11: =

Carroll essentially has said he's not going to be the Chargers coach.

And as much as we'd love to see our theory regarding the situation come to fruition, we're inclined to believe him.

With that said, we think that Carroll was a candidate for the job when he said "no comment" on Tuesday, and that in the intervening 48 hours a decision was made, by him or by the team, not to pursue it any further.

 

[PadresLakers]

Did Schottenheimer, weary of his troubled relationship with Smith and differences with Spanos, engineer his firing?

UNION-TRIBUNE

February 18, 2007

The lineup of speakers for a motivational seminar Wednesday in San Diego featured a Who's Who of the powerful and popular. Among others, you had Zig Ziglar, one of the country's top motivational speakers; Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York and a presidential candidate; Steve Forbes, one of the world's wealthiest men; and LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chargers' All-Pro running back and the current NFL MVP.

Still, the longest and loudest applause was reserved for the introduction of Marty Schottenheimer, who received a standing ovation from some onlookers just two days after being fired as head coach of the Chargers.

The response could have been a touching attempt at thanking him for restoring credibility to a franchise that was woefully lacking when he arrived. The Chargers had gone six consecutive seasons without a winning record or playoff appearance before he was hired in 2002. Over Schottenheimer's final three years, with a roster stocked with talent by General Manager A.J. Smith, the Chargers won two divisional titles and had a 35-13 record that was third-best in the league.

The sustained ovation also could have been an attempt to express dissatisfaction with how the situation was handled. Almost as soon as news broke of Schottenheimer's firing, the majority of calls and comments to this newspaper suggested that he got a raw deal. After all, how many coaches get fired when they have the second-highest winning percentage (.588) in franchise history and are coming off a 14-2 season?

But it now appears abundantly clear that Schottenheimer needed neither sympathy nor support. If you step back, connect the dots and color in the outline with comments from people in and around the situation, it becomes obvious that Schottenheimer's firing was not the brainchild of club President Dean Spanos, but likely the master plan of Schottenheimer himself.

Neither man would address the matter on the record, but you would be hard-pressed to reach another conclusion based on the circumstantial evidence and private comments from people familiar with the situation. Like a slow-developing Polaroid, the picture has gone from murky to clear. Schottenheimer wanted to continue coaching the Chargers, but not under the same conditions.

He had grown tired of his “dysfunctional” relationship with Smith and believed that, win or lose in 2007, he would not be back with the team the following year. Spanos had made it clear by his actions that his allegiance was with Smith, so Schottenheimer decided it was time to throw in his cards. But how best to do it?

He didn't want to resign because that would take the team off the hook for his $4 million salary, but he also knew the contract would have to be honored if he were fired. So, the man who preaches bright lines constructed a neon line that he knew Spanos would never allow him to cross. Then he crossed it by saying he wanted to interview his brother Kurt Schottenheimer for the vacant defensive coordinator position.

 

[Family Matters]

This is interesting from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2767895

Turmoil likely not sitting well with TomlinsonESPN.com

Our experts tackle a variety of topics in this edition of Burning Questions.

1. Are the Chargers in danger of alienating LaDainian Tomlinson?

Merrill Hoge: The Chargers aren't just potentially alienating Tomlinson, but also the rest of their team. This is a squad that has lost its Pro Bowl quarterback (Drew Brees) and future Hall of Fame coach in successive years. These were both guys who the players loved and respected. They've already seen Brees go on to have a great season with the New Orleans Saints. What is going to happen if they don't improve this season and Schottenheimer gets a head coaching job in a season or two and is able to take that team to the Super Bowl?

Kevin Terrell/WireImage.com

LaDainian Tomlinson walks dejectedly off the field after losing to New England.Eric Allen: They are definitely in danger of forcing Tomlinson into making a Barry Sanders move and eventually retiring in his prime. This coaching hire is vitally important because wins and possibility of winning a Super Bowl are what is important to Tomlinson, not records. This guy wants to win badly and he won't want to be a part of a rebuilding process after being so close to a championship. The Chargers need to bring him in on this search and make sure he's pleased when they make the decision.

Mark Schlereth: They definitely should worry about whether or not they are alienating Tomlinson after getting rid of his best friend on the team (Brees) last season and now a coach he respected. It would be a good idea to get a coach who will mesh well with him and make sure they aren't taking a step back with their best player.

 

[PadresLakers]

This is interesting from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2767895

Turmoil likely not sitting well with TomlinsonESPN.com

Our experts tackle a variety of topics in this edition of Burning Questions.

1. Are the Chargers in danger of alienating LaDainian Tomlinson?

Merrill Hoge: The Chargers aren\\\'t just potentially alienating Tomlinson, but also the rest of their team. This is a squad that has lost its Pro Bowl quarterback (Drew Brees) and future Hall of Fame coach in successive years. These were both guys who the players loved and respected. They\\\'ve already seen Brees go on to have a great season with the New Orleans Saints. What is going to happen if they don\\\'t improve this season and Schottenheimer gets a head coaching job in a season or two and is able to take that team to the Super Bowl?

Kevin Terrell/WireImage.com

LaDainian Tomlinson walks dejectedly off the field after losing to New England.Eric Allen: They are definitely in danger of forcing Tomlinson into making a Barry Sanders move and eventually retiring in his prime. This coaching hire is vitally important because wins and possibility of winning a Super Bowl are what is important to Tomlinson, not records. This guy wants to win badly and he won\\\'t want to be a part of a rebuilding process after being so close to a championship. The Chargers need to bring him in on this search and make sure he\\\'s pleased when they make the decision.

Mark Schlereth: They definitely should worry about whether or not they are alienating Tomlinson after getting rid of his best friend on the team (Brees) last season and now a coach he respected. It would be a good idea to get a coach who will mesh well with him and make sure they aren\\\'t taking a step back with their best player.

Yep he sure sucked the year after they let his best friend leave the team, maybe he will suck even more now that they fired his favorite coach

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

This is interesting from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2767895

Turmoil likely not sitting well with TomlinsonESPN.com

Our experts tackle a variety of topics in this edition of Burning Questions.

1. Are the Chargers in danger of alienating LaDainian Tomlinson?

Merrill Hoge: The Chargers aren't just potentially alienating Tomlinson, but also the rest of their team. This is a squad that has lost its Pro Bowl quarterback (Drew Brees) and future Hall of Fame coach in successive years. These were both guys who the players loved and respected. They've already seen Brees go on to have a great season with the New Orleans Saints. What is going to happen if they don't improve this season and Schottenheimer gets a head coaching job in a season or two and is able to take that team to the Super Bowl?

Kevin Terrell/WireImage.com

LaDainian Tomlinson walks dejectedly off the field after losing to New England.Eric Allen: They are definitely in danger of forcing Tomlinson into making a Barry Sanders move and eventually retiring in his prime. This coaching hire is vitally important because wins and possibility of winning a Super Bowl are what is important to Tomlinson, not records. This guy wants to win badly and he won't want to be a part of a rebuilding process after being so close to a championship. The Chargers need to bring him in on this search and make sure he's pleased when they make the decision.

Mark Schlereth: They definitely should worry about whether or not they are alienating Tomlinson after getting rid of his best friend on the team (Brees) last season and now a coach he respected. It would be a good idea to get a coach who will mesh well with him and make sure they aren't taking a step back with their best player.

Fm these three clowns dont know anything about LT and his relationship. Its comical.

 

[cobalt_27]

Mark Schlereth: They definitely should worry about whether or not they are alienating Tomlinson after getting rid of his best friend on the team (Brees) last season and now a coach he respected. It would be a good idea to get a coach who will mesh well with him and make sure they aren't taking a step back with their best player.

I mean, really. Where else but from the industry's top commentators, Mark Schlereth, can you get this kind of astute analysis?You can't help but learn something new every time he shares all his brilliant NFL insights with the rest of us.

 

[Despyzer]

FM continues to get in this thread. Schlereth and Hoge spend about as much time aound the Chargers organization as I do. This is nothing but speculation and conjecture on their part, but it's obvious they have sucked in their target audience.

 

[cobalt_27]

FM continues to get in this thread. Schlereth and Hoge spend about as much time aound the Chargers organization as I do. This is nothing but speculation and conjecture on their part, but it's obvious they have sucked in their target audience.

Find me a thread where FM wasn't getting pwned. It's a chronic condition, apparently.

 

[trader jake]

Norv Turner is rumored to be the guy in San Diego...Norv Turner?



Isn't he a less accomplished version of Marty?

 

[Family Matters]

FM continues to get in this thread. Schlereth and Hoge spend about as much time aound the Chargers organization as I do. This is nothing but speculation and conjecture on their part, but it's obvious they have sucked in their target audience.

Find me a thread where FM wasn't getting pwned. It's a chronic condition, apparently.

This is laughable. Whenever someone post something that's contrary to what you believe you think they're owned? Guess you're running out of material. Even the long deleted thread that Groovus posted proves that most people feel as I and yet you clowns continue to act as though nothing unusal is going on.Guess your right, I'm owned.

 

[cobalt_27]

Norv Turner is going to get this job. He's a natural fit for LT. For all the talk about how good he is with young QBs, it's his work with the running game that impresses me the most. He's already had the experience as HC, and while it's been with crappy teams, he can certainly manage this group. SD can focus on a D-coordinator position that maximizes the talent and scheme that's been developed.Norv is the only sensible choice here. All others are just names being thrown out there.

 

[roadkill1292]

Norv Turner is going to get this job. He's a natural fit for LT. For all the talk about how good he is with young QBs, it's his work with the running game that impresses me the most. He's already had the experience as HC, and while it's been with crappy teams, he can certainly manage this group. SD can focus on a D-coordinator position that maximizes the talent and scheme that's been developed.Norv is the only sensible choice here. All others are just names being thrown out there.

Even if you're right, this never fails to amuse.

 

[cobalt_27]

Norv Turner is going to get this job. He's a natural fit for LT. For all the talk about how good he is with young QBs, it's his work with the running game that impresses me the most. He's already had the experience as HC, and while it's been with crappy teams, he can certainly manage this group. SD can focus on a D-coordinator position that maximizes the talent and scheme that's been developed.Norv is the only sensible choice here. All others are just names being thrown out there.

Even if you're right, this never fails to amuse.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a shoulder dislocation after patting myself on the back for this one.

 

[stevegamer]

A new untried coaching candidate gets the benift of the doubt. If the Chargers hire Turner, he may be successful, but it will be a Barry Switzer kind of successful. I think Art Shell is a better choice for them. And yes, I mean that.

Marty has his issues and I can't argue with many who bash his ability to get teams to the next level. Art Shell isn't half the coach Shotty is.The Raiders have issues but if Marty took them over right now he'd have them in the playoffs within three seasons. Of course they wouldn't win a playoff game...

You misunderstood me:It wasn't Schotty I was comparing to Shell, it Was Turner. I think the Chargers will regret hiring Turner - although they probably feel that with the right assistants, the HC isn't very important; that's what's been heard throughout this thread regarding the assistants being the more important factor for the Chargers.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think the Chargers will regret hiring Turner - although they probably feel that with the right assistants, the HC isn't very important; that's what's been heard throughout this thread regarding the assistants being the more important factor for the Chargers.

It doesn't have anything to do with the uniforms. It had to do with Wade Phillips, Cam Cameron, and Marty Schottenheimer specifically. No part of that dynamic is there anymore.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

 

[stevegamer]

I think the Chargers will regret hiring Turner - although they probably feel that with the right assistants, the HC isn't very important; that's what's been heard throughout this thread regarding the assistants being the more important factor for the Chargers.

It doesn't have anything to do with the uniforms. It had to do with Wade Phillips, Cam Cameron, and Marty Schottenheimer specifically. No part of that dynamic is there anymore.

MT, I could probably find some guys who think the Powder Blues make a difference.More seriously though, I was saying that the assistants were seen as more relevant to success than the HC, from what I can tell, by both Smith & many of the Chargers fans. In that scenario, Turner matters more as the functional OC, than as a head coach.

I see Norv Turner's upside as maybe a Super Bowl win despite him as head coach. However, it's possible that Smith gets the right guys in place to cover for Turner's issues, and even that one of Turner's issues is solved with Smith as GM.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

 

[massraider]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

Yep. Maybe even 2008.

 

[56]

Did Schottenheimer, weary of his troubled relationship with Smith and differences with Spanos, engineer his firing?

UNION-TRIBUNE

February 18, 2007

The lineup of speakers for a motivational seminar Wednesday in San Diego featured a Who's Who of the powerful and popular. Among others, you had Zig Ziglar, one of the country's top motivational speakers; Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York and a presidential candidate; Steve Forbes, one of the world's wealthiest men; and LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chargers' All-Pro running back and the current NFL MVP.

Still, the longest and loudest applause was reserved for the introduction of Marty Schottenheimer, who received a standing ovation from some onlookers just two days after being fired as head coach of the Chargers.

The response could have been a touching attempt at thanking him for restoring credibility to a franchise that was woefully lacking when he arrived. The Chargers had gone six consecutive seasons without a winning record or playoff appearance before he was hired in 2002. Over Schottenheimer's final three years, with a roster stocked with talent by General Manager A.J. Smith, the Chargers won two divisional titles and had a 35-13 record that was third-best in the league.

The sustained ovation also could have been an attempt to express dissatisfaction with how the situation was handled. Almost as soon as news broke of Schottenheimer's firing, the majority of calls and comments to this newspaper suggested that he got a raw deal. After all, how many coaches get fired when they have the second-highest winning percentage (.588) in franchise history and are coming off a 14-2 season?

But it now appears abundantly clear that Schottenheimer needed neither sympathy nor support. If you step back, connect the dots and color in the outline with comments from people in and around the situation, it becomes obvious that Schottenheimer's firing was not the brainchild of club President Dean Spanos, but likely the master plan of Schottenheimer himself.

Neither man would address the matter on the record, but you would be hard-pressed to reach another conclusion based on the circumstantial evidence and private comments from people familiar with the situation. Like a slow-developing Polaroid, the picture has gone from murky to clear. Schottenheimer wanted to continue coaching the Chargers, but not under the same conditions.

He had grown tired of his “dysfunctional” relationship with Smith and believed that, win or lose in 2007, he would not be back with the team the following year. Spanos had made it clear by his actions that his allegiance was with Smith, so Schottenheimer decided it was time to throw in his cards. But how best to do it?

He didn't want to resign because that would take the team off the hook for his $4 million salary, but he also knew the contract would have to be honored if he were fired. So, the man who preaches bright lines constructed a neon line that he knew Spanos would never allow him to cross. Then he crossed it by saying he wanted to interview his brother Kurt Schottenheimer for the vacant defensive coordinator position.

Why stop there? Where is the rest of the article???

Why no link????

Why would you leave out where the guys also talks about Marty's 1st choice of assistant linebackers coach John Pagano for the DC position, which Spanos also rejected, before he tabled his brother?

Why not post the part where the author mentions that Schottenheimer's contract called for Marty to have the authority to choose his staff?

What about the part where he mentions that Marty would not be able to look any of the guys in the eye if he had blocked ANY of the assistants from leaving for promotions, after having allowed his son to do just that the year before?

While the author's premise regarding Marty's exit might be preposterous, as several of his other claims might be, at least he had the decency to give the reader at least a glimpse of both sides of the story. Your selection from the article, not so much.

http://crossword.uniontrib.com/uniontrib/2...1s18martys.html

 

[trader jake]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

 

[Family Matters]

Did Schottenheimer, weary of his troubled relationship with Smith and differences with Spanos, engineer his firing?

UNION-TRIBUNE

February 18, 2007

The lineup of speakers for a motivational seminar Wednesday in San Diego featured a Who's Who of the powerful and popular. Among others, you had Zig Ziglar, one of the country's top motivational speakers; Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York and a presidential candidate; Steve Forbes, one of the world's wealthiest men; and LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chargers' All-Pro running back and the current NFL MVP.

Still, the longest and loudest applause was reserved for the introduction of Marty Schottenheimer, who received a standing ovation from some onlookers just two days after being fired as head coach of the Chargers.

The response could have been a touching attempt at thanking him for restoring credibility to a franchise that was woefully lacking when he arrived. The Chargers had gone six consecutive seasons without a winning record or playoff appearance before he was hired in 2002. Over Schottenheimer's final three years, with a roster stocked with talent by General Manager A.J. Smith, the Chargers won two divisional titles and had a 35-13 record that was third-best in the league.

The sustained ovation also could have been an attempt to express dissatisfaction with how the situation was handled. Almost as soon as news broke of Schottenheimer's firing, the majority of calls and comments to this newspaper suggested that he got a raw deal. After all, how many coaches get fired when they have the second-highest winning percentage (.588) in franchise history and are coming off a 14-2 season?

But it now appears abundantly clear that Schottenheimer needed neither sympathy nor support. If you step back, connect the dots and color in the outline with comments from people in and around the situation, it becomes obvious that Schottenheimer's firing was not the brainchild of club President Dean Spanos, but likely the master plan of Schottenheimer himself.

Neither man would address the matter on the record, but you would be hard-pressed to reach another conclusion based on the circumstantial evidence and private comments from people familiar with the situation. Like a slow-developing Polaroid, the picture has gone from murky to clear. Schottenheimer wanted to continue coaching the Chargers, but not under the same conditions.

He had grown tired of his “dysfunctional” relationship with Smith and believed that, win or lose in 2007, he would not be back with the team the following year. Spanos had made it clear by his actions that his allegiance was with Smith, so Schottenheimer decided it was time to throw in his cards. But how best to do it?

He didn't want to resign because that would take the team off the hook for his $4 million salary, but he also knew the contract would have to be honored if he were fired. So, the man who preaches bright lines constructed a neon line that he knew Spanos would never allow him to cross. Then he crossed it by saying he wanted to interview his brother Kurt Schottenheimer for the vacant defensive coordinator position.

Why stop there? Where is the rest of the article???

Why no link????

Why would you leave out where the guys also talks about Marty's 1st choice of assistant linebackers coach John Pagano for the DC position, which Spanos also rejected, before he tabled his brother?

Why not post the part where the author mentions that Schottenheimer's contract called for Marty to have the authority to choose his staff?

What about the part where he mentions that Marty would not be able to look any of the guys in the eye if he had blocked ANY of the assistants from leaving for promotions, after having allowed his son to do just that the year before?

While the author's premise regarding Marty's exit might be preposterous, as several of his other claims might be, at least he had the decency to give the reader at least a glimpse of both sides of the story. Your selection from the article, not so much.

http://crossword.uniontrib.com/uniontrib/2...1s18martys.html

It obvious why he did that. Thanks for making it right. The situation appears different when you have all the story and not just selected pieces.

 

[Tau837]

At the start of this season, what was everyone's opinion of the job Marty had done?

Personally, I was pretty pleased. Before Marty, the Chargers were consistently one of the worst teams in the league. Even if they didn't win any playoff games, at least he coached them to 35 wins in the last three years. I'd rather have some impressive regular seasons with no playoff wins than counting on a top 5 draft pick every year.

Well, I actually asked about your opinion before the season... at that point, he had 29 regular season wins and no playoff wins in the previous 3 seasons. But I understand your point.

 

[Jason Wood]

Wow...not sure what to say here. I loathe SD's choices for HC and DC, yet they got a guy in Rivera to coach linebackers that could've been an NFL head coach six times over this year.

Turner is a putrid and cowardly hire in my opinion. This whole notion of "they hired a guy who was a known commodity" just makes no sense to me. He's a known sub-.500 coach who knows how to coordinate an offense but has shown absolutely no ability to win consistently as a head coach, despite significant experience at the helm.

 

[Tau837]

Agreed. And that also means there coaches in the HOF without.

Just out of curiosity, what is your first language?Yes, there are a couple... Bud Grant comes to mind... but the vast majority have won championships. When it comes to coaching, winning championships matters more than anything else. This should be common football knowledge. Why do we have to keep explaining this crap to you?

I like Marty, but I think he only has a slim, outside chance of making it into the hall.

Marv Levy too.

Here are the coaches in the HOF, along with some of their notable qualifications:George Allen - 1966-1977 - never had a losing season as a NFL head coach; one NFL championship game appearance

Paul Brown - 1946-1962 - 4 AAFC titles, 3 NFL titles

Guy Chamberlin - 1922-1927 - player/coach of 4 NFL championship teams

Jimmy Conzelman - 1921-30, 1940-42, 1946-48 - 2 NFL titles

Weeb Ewbank - 1954-1973 - 2 NFL titles, 1 AFL title

Ray Flaherty - 1936-1949 - 2 NFL titles, 2 AAFC titles

Joe Gibbs - 1981-1992 - 3 NFL titles

Sid Gillman - 1955-1969, 1971-1974 - 1 NFL title, offensive innovator

Bud Grant - 1967-1983, 1985 - 1 NFL title, 3 other Super Bowl appearances

George Halas - 1920-29, 1933-42, 1946-67 - 6 NFL titles

Earl (Curly) Lambeau - 1919-1953 - 6 championships, first to make forward pass integral in offense

Tom Landry - 1960-1988 - 2 Super Bowl wins, 20 straight winning seasons

Marv Levy - 1978-1982, 1986-1997 - 4 Super Bowl appearances

Vince Lombardi - 1959-1967, 1969 - 5 NFL titles

John Madden - 1969-1978 - 1 Super Bowl win, highest regular season winning percentage ever (minimum 100 wins)

Earle (Greasy) Neale - 1941-1950 - 2 NFL titles

Chuck Noll - 1969-1991 - 4 Super Bowl wins

Steve Owen - 1930-1953 - coached 2 NFL titles, captained another

Don Shula - 1963-1995 - 2 Super Bowl wins, most wins ever (328 regular season, 347 including postseason)

Hank Stram - 1960-1974, 1976-1977 - 3 AFL titles

Bill Walsh - 1979-1988 - 3 Super Bowl wins

That's 21 coaches. All won titles except George Allen and Marv Levy, both of whom led their teams to at least one title game. Note that Bud Grant was cited earlier, but he won an NFL title and also his teams to the Super Bowl 3 other times.

Is Marty on a par with these men? I'd say no. He still needs more postseason success. Or possibly a *lot* more wins. I'm expecting neither.

 

[tommyGunZ]

All things considered, NTurner + Contrell + Rivera >>>>>>> Marty + his brother running the defense.

 

[Capella]

All things considered, NTurner + Contrell + Rivera >>>>>>> Marty + his brother running the defense.

maybe, but certainly an overall downgrade from what you had last season.and let's face it, rivera is a one-year hire. he's taking the first DC or HC job he gets next year.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

Yep. Maybe even 2008.

then why on earth didn't you just make him the head coach now?

 

[stevegamer]

Cotrell as a HC now would be pretty laughable.

Once can see the crux of the Chargers' plan:

Get a guy on O & a guy on D who cause the minimum disruption to the players & the schemes in place at this late point in time.

While continuity is good, having these guys in charge is very underwhelming.

 

[Jason Wood]

All things considered, NTurner + Contrell + Rivera >>>>>>> Marty + his brother running the defense.

maybe, but certainly an overall downgrade from what you had last season.and let's face it, rivera is a one-year hire. he's taking the first DC or HC job he gets next year.

 

[BoltBacker]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

Yep. Maybe even 2008.

then why on earth didn't you just make him the head coach now?

.... because you couldn't have made Cottrell the HC if you wanted Turner to run your offense. Meh, I still wish they would have just made Cameron the HC and gone out and got Cotrell/Rivera. If Cameron couldn't run the offense I'm fine with Turner running it.

 

[Despyzer]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

Yep. Maybe even 2008.

then why on earth didn't you just make him the head coach now?

I don't think BSS wields that kind of power.

 

[Despyzer]

All things considered, NTurner + Contrell + Rivera >>>>>>> Marty + his brother running the defense.

maybe, but certainly an overall downgrade from what you had last season.and let's face it, rivera is a one-year hire. he's taking the first DC or HC job he gets next year.

What the Chargers had last season was never an option. They were going to lose at least one coordinator (and perhaps a few coaches) regardless of when Marty was fired.

 

[Jason Wood]

All things considered, NTurner + Contrell + Rivera >>>>>>> Marty + his brother running the defense.

maybe, but certainly an overall downgrade from what you had last season.and let's face it, rivera is a one-year hire. he's taking the first DC or HC job he gets next year.

What the Chargers had last season was never an option. They were going to lose at least one coordinator (and perhaps a few coaches) regardless of when Marty was fired.

I agree with this...although you could very easily make the case that either Cameron or Phillips would've stayed in San Diego as head coach if they knew it was a possibility. Cameron was a hot commodity and, IMHO, he would've likely left no matter what. But Phillips really had no serious interest until Parcells retired after most other positions were hired. If anything, the Chargers lost out on Phillips by the lateness of Schotty's dismissal.Given Phillips' tenure with the Chargers, I'll buy that he MIGHT have been a better option than Norv Turner, but let's not pretend that Phillips' as a head coach is any more proven or a sure thing than Turner. Both are summarily underwhelming based on their prior HC stints. They've made their names as coordinators, and if I were a Cowboys or Chargers fan heading into the 2007 season, I would be scratching my head wondering what happened over the last few months to warrant these "new" regimes.

 

[Family Matters]

I hope you guys were able to listen to AJ's interview today. After listening to AJ speak on ESPN radio this morning I came to respect him a little more. He made a couple of comments that made me realize that I can find some common ground with him. For one he spoke about learning under Marv Levy, whom I repsect immensly. Marv taught him (I'm paraphrasing) that some will say you're smart while others will say you're stupid. So you're better off doing what you think is right. Don't be too concerned with what others think.

The other comment he made that I liked was that his philosophy is "don't be afraid to fail". IOW-just because people criticize you or think you're making a mistake, trust in yourself and do what you think is right.

So while I don't agree with how he's handled a few things the last 2 years, I do respect him for doing what he thinks is right and sticking to his guns. You have to respect that.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

There was an article about a year ago (I can't find it now) in which AJ was quoted as saying that the most important thing he learned from Marv Levy is that if you pay too much attention to what the fans want, you will end up sitting next to them.

 

[Jason Wood]

There was an article about a year ago (I can't find it now) in which AJ was quoted as saying that the most important thing he learned from Marv Levy is that if you pay too much attention to what the fans want, you will end up sitting next to them.

MT,I think all the good GMs understand this. Especially in today's environment where every fan has a voice through blogs, forums, the radio, etc... As I've said countless times, most of the Eagles best moves under Reid have been unpopular with the fans at the time. *** Drafting McNabb elicited boos*** Letting Trotter walk instead of paying him top 5 money*** Letting Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville*** Letting Shawn Barber sign for big $$$ in KC*** Drafting three defensive backs in rounds 1-2 when we had Pro Bowlers at those positions already*** Letting Vincent and Taylor leaveMeanwhile, look at some of the moves the fans have loved...*** Signing Kearse to one of the largest deals ever for a DE*** Acquiring TO*** Drafting Freddie Mitchell*** Trading up to get Jerome McDougleJust because we have unprecedented access to information doesn't make us remotely qualified to run a franchise. It must be frustrating to those guys much in the same way it's frustrating to me when someone comes up and offers me a "hot stock tip."

 

[BoltBacker]

They've made their names as coordinators, and if I were a Cowboys or Chargers fan heading into the 2007 season, I would be scratching my head wondering what happened over the last few months to warrant these "new" regimes.

We've been discussing the possibility of Parcell retiring since they got off to their slow 4-4 start. He looked like a burned out coach by the end of the pre-season answering TO questions. If you're a DAL fan I don't know how you could possibly be surprised they are starting over with a new regime.Really, if you look back at the posts before the season began plenty of Charger fans felt Marty would be gone if he didn't win a playoff game.Neither was a surprise to me.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

There was an article about a year ago (I can't find it now) in which AJ was quoted as saying that the most important thing he learned from Marv Levy is that if you pay too much attention to what the fans want, you will end up sitting next to them.

MT,I think all the good GMs understand this. Especially in today's environment where every fan has a voice through blogs, forums, the radio, etc...

As I've said countless times, most of the Eagles best moves under Reid have been unpopular with the fans at the time.

*** Drafting McNabb elicited boos

*** Letting Trotter walk instead of paying him top 5 money

*** Letting Hugh Douglas leave for Jacksonville

*** Letting Shawn Barber sign for big $$$ in KC

*** Drafting three defensive backs in rounds 1-2 when we had Pro Bowlers at those positions already

*** Letting Vincent and Taylor leave

Meanwhile, look at some of the moves the fans have loved...

*** Signing Kearse to one of the largest deals ever for a DE

*** Acquiring TO

*** Drafting Freddie Mitchell

*** Trading up to get Jerome McDougle

Just because we have unprecedented access to information doesn't make us remotely qualified to run a franchise. It must be frustrating to those guys much in the same way it's frustrating to me when someone comes up and offers me a "hot stock tip."

Yes, the kind of criticism teams get from fans can be pretty comical in hindsight. It's happened to AJ Smith with pretty much ever move he's made since taking over as GM. When he got rid of Marcellus Wiley and David Boston, when he passed over big-name free agents (who went on to be busts) and instead signed Mike Goff, Randall Godfrey, and Steve Foley, when he "bungled" the whole Eli Manning deal, when he "wasted" draft picks on Luis Castillo and Shawne Merriman, and on and on and on -- and pretty much all of those things turned out to be right.Here's a classic post from a Charger message board suggesting that AJ should be fired for his performance in the 2006 draft. Of course, it was written right after the draft -- not after the draftees had played a season and thus could reasonably be evaluated. (Similarly, there are Charger fans suggesting that AJ should be fired now for hiring Norv Turner -- and of course, the suggestion is being made right after he hired Turner instead of after a season or two when the move can be reasonably evaluated.)

Typical fan post from April 30, 2006 (and you can find plenty more just like it regarding all of AJ's previous moves as GM):

AJ should be fired now

I realize this may be considered and over reaction and a bit odd since I have been an AJ supporter, but I think he has to go now and right away before the season starts.

The internal front office bickering, the lack of communication with coaches and extremely poor off season moves (where the team actually got worse instead of better) were disconcerting; but I was willing to stick with AJ because of his supposed reputation for being excellent in the draft.

What we have seen in the past 2 days is poor draft management and execution.

This draft was hugely disappointing, especially compared to other teams like Philly etc. Only Buffalo did as poorly as us; is that a coincidence or does it reflect something else. I thought AJ’s draft strategy was high production guys who can start for the first day followed by talented guys who had fallen in the 2 nd day. Instead AJ took reach upon reach and weird decision after weird decision; and it just got worse as the day went on. Contrast that with Philly who traded up to get players they wanted and down when players they wanted weren’t there. A much better draft by them and there team improved significantly as a result.

Philly and other teams picked up 3 solid starters (Bunkley, Justice and MJG) and 2-3 guys who will contribute big minutes THIS season (Gegong, Avant, Bloomer) and 2-3 special teams guys. Only McNeill will get significant minutes for us if and only if Oben doesn’t come back (better than 60/40 he won’t).

In hindsight, picks like CB Davis show the real AJ and picks and signings like Merriman and Gates show just plain dumb luck. AJ’s strategy then and now appears to be take whoever falls to us. When has he ever traded up to get a player. Yet time and again, other player trade up to just in front of us and grab the player we were likely to pick.

All the positive press about draft success with Merriman etc, got into AJ’s ego and he became arrogant. In his relationships with the coaches and his picks for our team. Now he is working on his Bobby Bethard impression with his reaches.

There was very good talent at positions of need and the Chargers made the wrong decisions.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it is much easier to say stuff after the fact but take a look at what our draft could have looked like:

19 - OT Winston Justice

50 - CB Richard Marshall

81 – OG Jean-Max Gilles

Moved up 8 spots and giving up a 6th:

105 - FS Ko Simpson

Moved up 9 spots and giving up a 7th:

149 – OT Johnathan Scott

Moved up 6 spots and given up a 7th:

181 - DT Oshinowo, Babatunde

Even if you don't agree with the tradeups, we can all construct a draft of the picks that were on the board that were better than what AJ did.

I'm glad AJ doesn't care about what fans think. Also, it'd be kind of stupid to fire AJ Smith for drafting Marcus McNeill.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

norv turner...how inspiring. who's going to be your coach in 09?

ted Cotrell

Yep. Maybe even 2008.

then why on earth didn't you just make him the head coach now?

I don't think BSS wields that kind of power.

dont be so sure

 

[tommyGunZ]

While AJ Smith is being trashed by 90% of the football community, he quickly replaces Marty with 3 quality football minds, and inks Shaun Phillips to a 6yr/$13M deal .

The Chargers signed LB Shaun Phillips to a six-year extension through 2012. The deal will guarantee him $13 million.

He was originally scheduled for restricted free agency. This is yet another feather in the cap of GM A.J. Smith. Nearly all of San Diego's impressive front seven on defense are now locked up long term. Phillips had a career high 11.5 sacks and four forced fumbles while improving against the run last season.

Keep hatin' fellas - while AJ keeps making great move after great move.

 

[tommyGunZ]

At the end of the season, general manager A.J. Smith identified Phillips as a "nucleus" player the Chargers wanted to retain with a long-term contract. San Diego now has 24 key players under contract through at least the 2009 season.

"Everyone is familiar with my philosophy of identifying our own talent and tying up the guys that are in our program, and we're thrilled that Shaun is going to be with us for years to come," Smith said. "He is a great pass rusher, and last year he really solidified his talents as a two-dimensional player. He's developed into an outstanding player against both the run and the pass."

Bolts poised for a early 90s Cowboys type run. Young, talented, locked up long term, and still way under the salary cap.Take a bow AJ.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

At the end of the season, general manager A.J. Smith identified Phillips as a "nucleus" player the Chargers wanted to retain with a long-term contract. San Diego now has 24 key players under contract through at least the 2009 season.

"Everyone is familiar with my philosophy of identifying our own talent and tying up the guys that are in our program, and we're thrilled that Shaun is going to be with us for years to come," Smith said. "He is a great pass rusher, and last year he really solidified his talents as a two-dimensional player. He's developed into an outstanding player against both the run and the pass."

Bolts poised for a early 90s Cowboys type run. Young, talented, locked up long term, and still way under the salary cap.Take a bow AJ.

Well, they might have been before you just Gunz'd them.

 

[Capella]

At the end of the season, general manager A.J. Smith identified Phillips as a "nucleus" player the Chargers wanted to retain with a long-term contract. San Diego now has 24 key players under contract through at least the 2009 season.

"Everyone is familiar with my philosophy of identifying our own talent and tying up the guys that are in our program, and we're thrilled that Shaun is going to be with us for years to come," Smith said. "He is a great pass rusher, and last year he really solidified his talents as a two-dimensional player. He's developed into an outstanding player against both the run and the pass."

Bolts poised for a early 90s Cowboys type run. Young, talented, locked up long term, and still way under the salary cap.Take a bow AJ.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

At the end of the season, general manager A.J. Smith identified Phillips as a "nucleus" player the Chargers wanted to retain with a long-term contract. San Diego now has 24 key players under contract through at least the 2009 season.

"Everyone is familiar with my philosophy of identifying our own talent and tying up the guys that are in our program, and we're thrilled that Shaun is going to be with us for years to come," Smith said. "He is a great pass rusher, and last year he really solidified his talents as a two-dimensional player. He's developed into an outstanding player against both the run and the pass."

Bolts poised for a early 90s Cowboys type run. Young, talented, locked up long term, and still way under the salary cap.Take a bow AJ.

good luck with that...LT will be 30 in 2 years. make NO mistake that he is what makes this team go..coaching #### ups & changes over the next 3-5 years does nothing but hurt your chances to make it to the superbowl. norv #### ###, turner, retread, ex raider head coach is not the answer. gutless wonder coordinators who are 51-82 lifetime as head coaches are not what this team needs. this team has huge talent! schotty, his brother, me & you could "coach" this team to 9-10 wins next season, after that...who knows? good luck charger fan!

 

[BoltBacker]

retread, ex raider head coach is not the answer

Am I the only one that immediately thought of Shanahan and Gruden after reading this? When will raider fans learn that they're not losing because of their coaches? I give anyone coaching the raiders a mulligan.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

At the end of the season, general manager A.J. Smith identified Phillips as a "nucleus" player the Chargers wanted to retain with a long-term contract. San Diego now has 24 key players under contract through at least the 2009 season.

"Everyone is familiar with my philosophy of identifying our own talent and tying up the guys that are in our program, and we're thrilled that Shaun is going to be with us for years to come," Smith said. "He is a great pass rusher, and last year he really solidified his talents as a two-dimensional player. He's developed into an outstanding player against both the run and the pass."

Bolts poised for a early 90s Cowboys type run. Young, talented, locked up long term, and still way under the salary cap.Take a bow AJ.

Please switch favorite teams TIA

 

[prymetyme25]

Quick question-- Was Marty an Offensive or Defensive Coach? Kinda hard to tell by his personality(which says defense) but his son is an offensive coordinator. So i was just wondering.

TIA

 

[Despyzer]

Quick question-- Was Marty an Offensive or Defensive Coach? Kinda hard to tell by his personality(which says defense) but his son is an offensive coordinator. So i was just wondering.TIA

Defensive - linebackers coach for the Giants and Lions in the '70s, defensive coordinator for the Giants and Browns before becoming a head coach.