MCguidance
Footballguy
I posted this in another thread but it may be more appropriate here
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Matt Forte (1 Viewer)
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My two cents:
1. Great vision, hits holes quickly, great at finding cutback lanes, can shed a tackle or two, excellent pass catcher.
2. Not really a bruiser - the Bears haven't given him a lot of goal line looks for a reason but that may change.
3. They are being creative with him on offense - splitting him wide, motioning out of the backfield - to get him free, scored a TD on a pass reception split out as a WR.
4. Speed is underrated - remember, he ran away from Bob Sanders, a safety, on his first TD run.
5. He's tall like Robert Smith or Chris Brown, but doesn't run tall, doesn't really take big hits like those guys used to (although he has taken at least one that I can remember).
6. Use has to be a concern; Kevin Jones has looked good when he's been in there and you have to worry about hitting a rookie wall.
He's young, so there's no reason to trade him at all in a dynasty league. I'd rate him a peg below Jonathan Stewart and Chris Johnson in terms of potential but he'll get more touches than either of those guys this year.
1. Great vision, hits holes quickly, great at finding cutback lanes, can shed a tackle or two, excellent pass catcher.
2. Not really a bruiser - the Bears haven't given him a lot of goal line looks for a reason but that may change.
3. They are being creative with him on offense - splitting him wide, motioning out of the backfield - to get him free, scored a TD on a pass reception split out as a WR.
4. Speed is underrated - remember, he ran away from Bob Sanders, a safety, on his first TD run.
5. He's tall like Robert Smith or Chris Brown, but doesn't run tall, doesn't really take big hits like those guys used to (although he has taken at least one that I can remember).
6. Use has to be a concern; Kevin Jones has looked good when he's been in there and you have to worry about hitting a rookie wall.
He's young, so there's no reason to trade him at all in a dynasty league. I'd rate him a peg below Jonathan Stewart and Chris Johnson in terms of potential but he'll get more touches than either of those guys this year.
I don't know about dynasty but next week looks pretty darn good. I've followed FBG for a long time and both Burning Sensation and EBF are experienced FFballers. I'm going to have to go with Burning's analysis on this one.
Seems like EBF's only real argument is the guy may not be elite in dynasty formats. The guy is tall and isn't the protypical 5'10, 220 and a 4.3 40 yard dash. That being said I passed on Steven Jackson because I thought he resembled Chris Brown in size and running style. Now granted Steven has been injured but no one can say he's not an elite player. I think Forte has what it takes and he should serve team owners well for some time. Could he be a Chris Brown...sure but he could also end up more like Steven Jackson.
Seems like EBF's only real argument is the guy may not be elite in dynasty formats. The guy is tall and isn't the protypical 5'10, 220 and a 4.3 40 yard dash. That being said I passed on Steven Jackson because I thought he resembled Chris Brown in size and running style. Now granted Steven has been injured but no one can say he's not an elite player. I think Forte has what it takes and he should serve team owners well for some time. Could he be a Chris Brown...sure but he could also end up more like Steven Jackson.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
20+ fantasy points again today, guy is a BEAST!!!!
two_dollars
Footballguy
lol EBF will still be yelling sell high in week 17!
EBF
Footballguy
Forte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
two_dollars
Footballguy
damn those flukey TD's!Actually I didn't see much of the game, was there a TD where he got in backwards? or the defense wasn't ready? did he slip and fall and the ball fell into his hands?Forte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
EBF
Footballguy
I think anyone who's been playing FF for a while understands that TD production tends to be much more volatile than yardage.Look at the big picture. Forte rushed for 36 yards against one of the worst teams in the league today and is averaging below 3 YPC over the last three weeks. That's not encouraging.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Yeah, my leagues still uses TD's though, they also count receiving yards. I know, its a wierd league.Forte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
gobrowns33
Footballguy
His offensive line has looked awful when running. Most carries he immediately meets 2-3 defenders in the backfield. So I wouldn't really say his low ypc is due to his own talent - no one could get a high ypc behind that OL.Yeah, my leagues still uses TD's though, they also count receiving yards. I know, its a wierd league.Forte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Youre exactly right, Forte has the skills to be a VERY good RB, he will just need some help on the Oline. LT had similar issues his rookie year, everyone who watched him knew he was going to be good, but his Oline was pathetic, and he only averaged 3.6 YPC.His offensive line has looked awful when running. Most carries he immediately meets 2-3 defenders in the backfield. So I wouldn't really say his low ypc is due to his own talent - no one could get a high ypc behind that OL.Yeah, my leagues still uses TD's though, they also count receiving yards. I know, its a wierd league.Forte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
The Lions were 100% focused on stopping Forte/Jones today, and the front four of Lions pretty much had their way with the Bears front. Not a good sign...on the other hand, Brian Billick was just gushing over him and the impact he has on the Bears offense/opposing D-Cordinators, and if Orton continues to improve, things will open up...
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Football Jones
Footballguy
The sky is the limit with this kid. And the more help they get him, the better he'll be. Very few RBs could produce the FF numbers Forte is putting up in that offense. Being an outstanding pass-catcher really helps.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Even the haters cant find a flaw with him...other than he has long legs, and is more likely to suffer a knee injury.
EBF
Footballguy
Matt Forte: flawless.Even the haters cant find a flaw with him...other than he has long legs, and is more likely to suffer a knee injury.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
In other dang-that-EBF-is-never-wrong news, Brandon "3-headed monster" Jacobs is not a stud.
He merely plays and produces like one.
Remember to never allow facts to obscure the truth.
He merely plays and produces like one.
Remember to never allow facts to obscure the truth.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
First time you have been right all year.Matt Forte: flawless.Even the haters cant find a flaw with him...other than he has long legs, and is more likely to suffer a knee injury.
Righetti
Footballguy
I've had a chance to watch him play the last couple of weeks (last week national TV in primetime and this week at a Sportsbar).. It does look like he gets hit behind the line very often, which has to be attributed in part to a sieve of a front line. He does seem to fall forwards for an extra couple of yards but might not have superior agility, although there aren't a lot of Barry Sanders types out there anyway..He seems to be a pretty good one-cut runner and does have the added benifit of being a very good receiver..KJ isn't really taking too many carries away which is also encouragingForte's YPC over the past three weeks:3.32.32.4The flukish number of TDs is obscuring mediocre performance.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Here is what to ask yourself, assuming you have seen him play: Pretend you do not know the numbers...what has he shown you on the field?
He has been impressive at times, but I don't see any specific thing about his game that tells me he is anything special. He is above average in some things and average or below in others. He is a decent receiver, has above average toughness, but I don't see him explode though a hole and I don't see many tackles broken.
Any time I am unsure, I try to ignore the raw numbers and judge by watching. Then, I decide what I think. I don't see anything special and for me, that means I'm a seller.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But at least I am wrong on my own terms, and I can always live with that, because I know I will be wrong sometimes.
He has been impressive at times, but I don't see any specific thing about his game that tells me he is anything special. He is above average in some things and average or below in others. He is a decent receiver, has above average toughness, but I don't see him explode though a hole and I don't see many tackles broken.
Any time I am unsure, I try to ignore the raw numbers and judge by watching. Then, I decide what I think. I don't see anything special and for me, that means I'm a seller.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But at least I am wrong on my own terms, and I can always live with that, because I know I will be wrong sometimes.
EBF
Footballguy
Proceed with caution Borbely. Coming into these hype threads and suggesting that the player in question is anything less than the next Emmitt Smith means you'll soon be accused of being a clueless hater who's hopelessly in denial.
Knight who says Ni
Footballguy
Call me cautiously optimistic as far as Forte is concerned - I don't think he is the next Emmit Smith, but I do like what I see so far, especially as a receiver. Bush is the only RB with more receiving yards than Forte, and they both have 2 TDs out of the backfield.
TitusIII
Footballguy
I didn't like the fact that Forte had a Lion defender on him before he hit the line of scrimmage on 50% of his touches, but that negative should be addressed in the '09 draft. The Bears first round draft pick(LT-Chris Williams) is at least practicing with the team after hurting his back, and I guess Angelo brought in Fred Miller for a reason, and it 'aint for his pass blocking. I'm not sure either one of these guys will be able to help the Chicago run game this season, but the continued improvement of Orton will certainly stop teams from using the strategy the Lions/Bucs/Eagles have employed...
You can find an up-grade in a re-draft, but I still think he is a strong hold in dynasty/keeper leagues. With that being said, it's hard to deny that Kevin Jones is healthy and running very well. The two make for an excellent tandem, so moving Forte in a re-draft may not be a bad call if you can acquire another workhorse/think Jones will see more work. I do believe it's in the Bears/Forte's best interests to give Jones some extra carries. May as well ride Jones untill he tweaks something...
You can find an up-grade in a re-draft, but I still think he is a strong hold in dynasty/keeper leagues. With that being said, it's hard to deny that Kevin Jones is healthy and running very well. The two make for an excellent tandem, so moving Forte in a re-draft may not be a bad call if you can acquire another workhorse/think Jones will see more work. I do believe it's in the Bears/Forte's best interests to give Jones some extra carries. May as well ride Jones untill he tweaks something...
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Football Jones
Footballguy
You do have to take into account his situation. The kid doesn't have much help & is a one-man band at times. No doubt he'll be even better when they surround him with more talent. What I see is a RB who has supreme natural running skills & is already one of the best pass-catchers in the league. He's not a bulldozer, but has plenty of power. He also has good burst & plus long-speed with exceptionally loose hips. Very good blocker, as well (especially for a rookie). I believe I have a really good feel for this kid & I haven't been more impressed with a RB in a long, long time. Bottom line is FF numbers, & he's excelling at that, but I believe you're absolutely correct...it's best to ignore raw numbers (for the most part) when evaluating a prospect & use your eyes. We definitely disagree on Forte, but I see lots of people who put too much emphasis on YPC & other stats which tend to sway their opinion needlessly. For some reason, Forte is one of those players who come along every so often & has people adamantly on both sides of the fence. Kind of a weird dynamic (& same thing with Chris Johnson, LOL). It'll be interesting to see what kind of career Forte has.Anthony Borbely said:
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griz145389
Footballguy
This was the first Bears game that I watched the whole game. The Bears line does not look very good at all. Forte shows very good vision. He finds the tiniest holes to bounce through. If the line was even halfway decent, he would be ripping off big yardage gains. To do as well as he is with that line being as bad as it is really impressed me.
I bolded the key points that I agree with. When I see Forte squeezing through the seam my jaw kinda drops
EBF
Footballguy
Last 6 games:
23 carries, 92 yards (4.0 YPC)
27 carries, 89 yards (3.3 YPC)
19 carries, 43 yards (2.3 YPC)
15 carries, 36 yards (2.4 YPC)
20 carries, 76 yards (3.8 YPC)
20 carries, 56 yards (2.8 YPC)
Total: 124 carries, 392 yards (3.16 YPC)
He continues to be a major factor in the passing game and he keeps finding ways to get into the end zone, but his rushing numbers have bottomed out after the flukish week one game where a 50 yard TD obscured an otherwise mediocre day. His season YPC average is down to 3.6, which is getting near Cedric Benson 2007 territory.
I still think Forte is a prime sell high candidate in dynasty leagues. His lofty FF numbers have obscured fairly ordinary performance. You can argue that his weak rushing numbers are the result of an inept supporting cast, but he's not doing significantly better than Benson or T. Jones did in the same organization with a similar supporting cast. He's just getting a lot of touches. As a matter of fact, I think he's leading all NFL RBs in total touches.
You can look at that as a positive or a negative. It's a good thing that he's getting a lot of opportunities, but if his FF value hinges on him getting a huge workload then his stats could suffer if his workload ever decreases for one reason or another.
I'm not saying he's garbage, but his perceived value exceeds his actual value IMO.
23 carries, 92 yards (4.0 YPC)
27 carries, 89 yards (3.3 YPC)
19 carries, 43 yards (2.3 YPC)
15 carries, 36 yards (2.4 YPC)
20 carries, 76 yards (3.8 YPC)
20 carries, 56 yards (2.8 YPC)
Total: 124 carries, 392 yards (3.16 YPC)
He continues to be a major factor in the passing game and he keeps finding ways to get into the end zone, but his rushing numbers have bottomed out after the flukish week one game where a 50 yard TD obscured an otherwise mediocre day. His season YPC average is down to 3.6, which is getting near Cedric Benson 2007 territory.
I still think Forte is a prime sell high candidate in dynasty leagues. His lofty FF numbers have obscured fairly ordinary performance. You can argue that his weak rushing numbers are the result of an inept supporting cast, but he's not doing significantly better than Benson or T. Jones did in the same organization with a similar supporting cast. He's just getting a lot of touches. As a matter of fact, I think he's leading all NFL RBs in total touches.
You can look at that as a positive or a negative. It's a good thing that he's getting a lot of opportunities, but if his FF value hinges on him getting a huge workload then his stats could suffer if his workload ever decreases for one reason or another.
I'm not saying he's garbage, but his perceived value exceeds his actual value IMO.
massraider
Footballguy
From a dynasty perspective, I'd hold. I think his skills are for real, and a Forte owner just has to hope they improve the QB and line around him. There aren't enough workhorses in the league to be trading them away.It'd be one thing if I thought he was an average or below average player, that was just getting yards through volume. BUt I think he is a good player, with great instincts, that is surrounded by crap, and is getting yards through volume. If he gets help, I think he is a solid dynasty guy.You might be right that his perceived value exceeds his actual vaslue, but I think that is in the short term.
two_dollars
Footballguy
His YPC might not knock anyone over, but watching this guy run, it takes 2 or 3 to bring him down, he always falls forward, and he almost ALWAYS gets those 3rd and 2's that are so crucial. He gets exactly what's asked of him. Coming into this game, he is also the #2 RB in receptions behind Reggie Bush.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Had we traded him away when EBF suggested, we would have missed out on 5-6 straight weeks of double digit fantasy points. I understand the concept of trading of trading high, but Forte is highly skilled and is only going to get better as the Bears offense continues to improve.
Football Jones
Footballguy
His OL is simply overmatched much of the time, but he continues to produce. It's actually a very good sign, tho (producing despite problems on their OL). I'm almost to the point where I'd say Forte is one of the better FF RBs in the NFL, but he's not quite there yet. He's just got so much potential in that offense. Orton is getting better...if his OL improves, Forte has the potential to be the #1 RB in PPR leagues as soon as next year.
Matt Forte is truly one of those RBs you have to appreciate with your eyes instead of looking at his YPC. The YPC will improve as his OL improves, but he's just a really talented multi-dimensional RB.
Matt Forte is truly one of those RBs you have to appreciate with your eyes instead of looking at his YPC. The YPC will improve as his OL improves, but he's just a really talented multi-dimensional RB.
NatronIsMean
Footballguy
The line can improve, but lets be honest - the QB play is the best that Chicago has seen since Eric Kramer in the mid-90s. The QB play is HELPING Forte a ton right now, not hurting him. The line needs to get better and the play-calling more creative at times, but I'm not so sure that Forte isn't getting a little beat up at this point. I really wish the Bears would work Kevin Jones more to keep Forte fresh and effective.massraider said:
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Maelstrom
Footballguy
Just for those trying to gauge trade value, in a keep 2 league today I was offered Peyton Manning and a 2009 8th round pick for Forte and my 2009 2nd round pick (my QBs are middle of the pack, but so is Manning this year). I'm countering to try and get an earlier pick from him, but I doubt he'd go as early as 4th, and doesn't have a 5th. (*BTW, not asking for advice here, just listing the trade, my thoughts about it for valuation purposes!)
Without the TDs Forte has been getting, I don't know that I would think twice about pulling the trigger. I do believe he is one of the top scoring options on his team, so it's a good chance the TDs stay at their current pace.
I think Forte is a good to very good back, and FF-wise should continue to produce. I'm worried that he will hit a rookie wall, or teams will figure out Orton (so to speak) and just stack the box even harder against Forte. That does make me seriously consider moving him before our trade deadline just in case.
Without the TDs Forte has been getting, I don't know that I would think twice about pulling the trigger. I do believe he is one of the top scoring options on his team, so it's a good chance the TDs stay at their current pace.
I think Forte is a good to very good back, and FF-wise should continue to produce. I'm worried that he will hit a rookie wall, or teams will figure out Orton (so to speak) and just stack the box even harder against Forte. That does make me seriously consider moving him before our trade deadline just in case.
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taz
Footballguy
Forte owner in a PPR. I'm close to closing a deal for Gore, but trying to gauge how much of an upside that would be. (We're going back/forth on the WR end of the trade).It's hard to argue with the TDs, but I wish I was more encouraged by the YPG. I'm worried about the OL and the number of carries he's had.Taking fantasy out of the equation, he's been a God-send to the Bears. Can't imagine a lesser back in that situation - it'd be Benson all over again.
Traders2001
Footballguy
Forte is lucky to get goal line touches FF wise and be a decent receiver . But as far as a NFL RB i am not impressed at all . The Bears are a run first team with a good OL and he cant do better than a 3,5YPC .
He might be as good as he want for FF owner but he wont be starting in the NFL for much longer then this year .
He might be as good as he want for FF owner but he wont be starting in the NFL for much longer then this year .
RBM
Footballguy
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Try watching the games, post like this are ridiculous.
King of the Wolfies
Footballguy
Agreed, but he is tough to bring down
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timschochet
Footballguy
Every team Forte faces is putting 8 men in the box. You watch the game, and he doesn't seem to get past the line of scrimmage. Every game, by the middle of the first quarter, it's like 6 carries for 8 yards, and I'm always thinking to myself, why did I start this guy?
Yet by the end of the game, he's in the endzone at least once, has 80 yards rushing, 60 receiving...he's the most consistent player I have.
Yet by the end of the game, he's in the endzone at least once, has 80 yards rushing, 60 receiving...he's the most consistent player I have.
Lord Lucan
Footballguy
The ypc doesn't matter so much when
# your team runs the ball a ton of times
# you are featured in the passing game (on target for 66 receptions this year)
# you have a nose for the end zone (on target for 10-11 TDs this year)
In fantasy terms, he's been Mr Reliable.
# your team runs the ball a ton of times
# you are featured in the passing game (on target for 66 receptions this year)
# you have a nose for the end zone (on target for 10-11 TDs this year)
In fantasy terms, he's been Mr Reliable.
Righetti
Footballguy
one of the things I have been impressed with is the way he catches the ball.. Two of his receiving TD's were ones where he lined up as a WR and he made a catch where he basically boxed out the defender and fought for the ball thrown high.. great receiving RB's like Westbrook and LT dominate with screen's but I don't remember seeing many RB's who can line up like Forte has on those two goal-line situations.
Kyzersosik
Footballguy
Big Blue Wrecking Crew
downsized
Would have rathered see Forte punch in a 2nd TD rather than getting poached by Grossman, but, overall, no complaints here!
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