Matt Jones WR JAC - Targeted 20 times (1 Viewer)

[harryhood]

Porter wasn't involved in the preseason because he was hurt. But they signed him to a large contract in the offseason to be their WR1. At this point, there is no reason to think he won't be.

No reason? I can come up with 6 reasons and I haven't even had my morning coffee yet:1. in eight seasons, he's only been a #1 WR one time.

2. he's never had a 1000-yard season

3. injury issues 3 of the past 5 seasons

4. over the past 4 seasons he's only managed to catch 48% of his targets. That's brutal.

5. he's 30 years old and on the downhill side of his career

6. being signed to a large contract has nothing to do with your ability to be a #1 WR. See: Alvin Harper.

Points 1-5 were all true when the Jags signed him, but they still signed him to be their #1 WR. Ignore that if you want to, but IMO he will be targeted more than Jones in all games he is healthy. The point of this thread is that Jones is averaging 10 targets per game, and thus offers good value... but those targets are about to go down.

Porter is a GTD W3 so Jones' value will probably get higher. I would say he is good for at least another 5/50 day.ETA: Porter not on Inj Report, looks like he may play.

 

[menobrown]

Porter is most likely out for W3

I don't think he's even on the injury report.

 

[switz]

Porter is most likely out for W3

 

[harryhood]

might have been outdated, let me find the article.

ETA: I was browsing ESPN this morning and the status alert was incorrect. They were referencing his W2 game. Indeed nothing for W3 so he will probably be good to go.

 

[The_U]

Porter is most likely out for W3

Agreed. I heard this AM on Sirius' NFL Blitz that he's not listed on their injury report and is a GTD. Take that for what it's worth, but I think it's premature to call him most likely out until that call is made.

 

[Cookiemonster]

but he's been sub-standard w/o Brown & Rice flanking him.

He had his two best season without Brown or Rice flanking him.

When he was the only game in town and the QBs had to force him the ball. Who else were they throwing to? The decoy formerly known as Randy Moss (the injured, or the quitter year), Stone-hands Jordan who had as many catches as Porter, or Amos freakin' Zeroue. Production vs. targets - the season he had 9 TDs playing slot between Rice & Brown was the only time he looked like a stud. Ask the Raiders' fans around here and see if they proclaim Porter stud or dud...

 

[menobrown]

but he's been sub-standard w/o Brown & Rice flanking him.

He had his two best season without Brown or Rice flanking him.

When he was the only game in town and the QBs had to force him the ball. Who else were they throwing to? The decoy formerly known as Randy Moss (the injured, or the quitter year), Stone-hands Jordan who had as many catches as Porter, or Amos freakin' Zeroue. Production vs. targets - the season he had 9 TDs playing slot between Rice & Brown was the only time he looked like a stud. Ask the Raiders' fans around here and see if they proclaim Porter stud or dud...

You are the one who said he was sub-standard without Brown or Rice. No matter what Porter does he can't win in your eyes. You first claimed he was only good when Brown and Rice were by his side. When it was pointed out to you that this was not correct you know say he only did well because he was the only guy in town.

 

[switz]

but he's been sub-standard w/o Brown & Rice flanking him.

He had his two best season without Brown or Rice flanking him.

When he was the only game in town and the QBs had to force him the ball. Who else were they throwing to? The decoy formerly known as Randy Moss (the injured, or the quitter year), Stone-hands Jordan who had as many catches as Porter, or Amos freakin' Zeroue. Production vs. targets - the season he had 9 TDs playing slot between Rice & Brown was the only time he looked like a stud. Ask the Raiders' fans around here and see if they proclaim Porter stud or dud...

Porter's best season came in 2004 when Rice was injured 1/3 of the way into the season. He had Ronald Curry (who you cited as better than him earlier), Doug Gabriel, and Alvis Whitted as the other WRs. While they aren't necessarily the stature of Tim Brown or Jerry Rice at their peak, they are hardly no option at all.Porter had 998 yards on 64 receptions (15.6 YPR) and scored 9 TDs.Curry had 50 receptions for 679 yards (13.6 YPR - why lower since you argue Porter is slower?) and 6 TDs.The following season, when Curry was hurt, Moss was added and had 10 MORE receptions than Curry had the year prior. There was little effect on Porter's numbers. Porter had 942 yards, on 76 receptions (only 1 more per game) and scored 5 TDs. Your post seems short on knowledge of the situation. You say they had no one to throw to so they forced it to Porter, but Gabriel had 4 more catches than 2004, Moss had ten more than Curry had in 2004, Jordan had 60 receptions - he wasn't even there in 2004. The Raiders actually had BETTER receiving weapons, and Porter still had 942 yards.Bottom line is that Porter is a talented WR with great speed and size, who has struggled due to injuries, work ethic, and being on a poor team.

 

[switz]

but he's been sub-standard w/o Brown & Rice flanking him.

He had his two best season without Brown or Rice flanking him.

When he was the only game in town and the QBs had to force him the ball. Who else were they throwing to? The decoy formerly known as Randy Moss (the injured, or the quitter year), Stone-hands Jordan who had as many catches as Porter, or Amos freakin' Zeroue. Production vs. targets - the season he had 9 TDs playing slot between Rice & Brown was the only time he looked like a stud. Ask the Raiders' fans around here and see if they proclaim Porter stud or dud...

You are the one who said he was sub-standard without Brown or Rice. No matter what Porter does he can't win in your eyes. You first claimed he was only good when Brown and Rice were by his side. When it was pointed out to you that this was not correct you know say he only did well because he was the only guy in town.

He hasn't been correct about any of his statements in this thread at all.

 

[dornado]

There have been countless first round receivers that took several seasons of crap before they "got it". Jones could easily be one of those guys and I'm happy to have his upside on my dynasty squad. That said, he hasn't been very impressive with his targets. He looks slow on the field and can't break tackles. I'm not sure he's ready to make the leap yet, but at least he's in the game plan.

I picked up Jones a few weeks back but he's kind of on the chopping block every time a new waiver wire option appears... though I haven't dropped him yet.On your larger point here, that it takes some WRs a while to 'get it'... I'm wondering if there are any examples of guys who finally 'clicked' in their 4th year, after being given the amount of opportunity Jones has... I'm sure there are guys who wasted away on the bench and then came on strong... but at what point do we say 'what you see is what you get' with Matt Jones?

First, these last two games were only his 6th and 7th starts of his career, so his opportunity hasn't been as great as you think. Especially when you consider the mentality of the Jaguars. As for other WRs, Cris Carter is the classic example. He started in 4 full seasons and had significant playing time in another before recording his first 1,000 yard campaign in his 7th season. Reggie Wayne also had boatloads of talent and opportunity but he didn't produce like expected until his 4th season. Some others... Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, Michael Irvin.I don't think Jones compares favorably to any of those guys except maybe Wayne if you can remember how down on him people were before he broke out. I honestly don't expect we'll ever get more than maybe one or two good seasons out of Jones and this could easily be it given their problems on the o-line, on defense, and lack of consistency at the other WR spots.

Carter did have an 11 TD season with Philly, and Reggie Wayne trajectory from 300 to 700 to 800 yards and 7 tds his 3rd year is also markedly better than the inconsistency Jones has shown... though like you said, maybe the opportunity hasn't really been there.

 

[Cookiemonster]

but he's been sub-standard w/o Brown & Rice flanking him.

He had his two best season without Brown or Rice flanking him.

When he was the only game in town and the QBs had to force him the ball. Who else were they throwing to? The decoy formerly known as Randy Moss (the injured, or the quitter year), Stone-hands Jordan who had as many catches as Porter, or Amos freakin' Zeroue. Production vs. targets - the season he had 9 TDs playing slot between Rice & Brown was the only time he looked like a stud. Ask the Raiders' fans around here and see if they proclaim Porter stud or dud...

Porter's best season came in 2004 when Rice was injured 1/3 of the way into the season. He had Ronald Curry (who you cited as better than him earlier), Doug Gabriel, and Alvis Whitted as the other WRs. While they aren't necessarily the stature of Tim Brown or Jerry Rice at their peak, they are hardly no option at all.

Porter had 998 yards on 64 receptions (15.6 YPR) and scored 9 TDs.

Curry had 50 receptions for 679 yards (13.6 YPR - why lower since you argue Porter is slower?) and 6 TDs.

The following season, when Curry was hurt, Moss was added and had 10 MORE receptions than Curry had the year prior. The year that Moss was outstanding for the 1st few weeks, then was relegated to a mere decoy for the rest of the season following the train wreck play vs. SD. There was little effect on Porter's numbers. Porter had 942 yards, on 76 receptions (only 1 more per game) and scored 5 TDs.

Your post seems short on knowledge of the situation. You say they had no one to throw to so they forced it to Porter, but Gabriel had 4 more catches than 2004, Moss had ten more than Curry had in 2004, Jordan had 60 receptions - he wasn't even there in 2004. The Raiders actually had BETTER receiving weapons, and Porter still had 942 yards.

Bottom line is that Porter is a talented WR with great speed and size, who has struggled due to injuries, work ethic, and being on a poor team.

I've been following football closely for about 25 years, played 13 seasons, and live in N.California where I am forced to watch 49ers' & Raiders' games every week. I'm fairly confident that I'm not short on knowledge of the situation. In fact, you've stated recently that you have, on occasion, based strong opinions because of stats and not your own eyes. I've watched the production year after year from the Raiders, and from my own eyes I am of the strong opinion that Oakland could have gotten much better production from other WRs that have been available. Stats don't tell you the whole story, and I've been very underwhelmed by Porter's production - as a Raiders fan - over the last several years. I was not in favor of the latest, big contract extention that Al Davis (who seemed to have some serious manlove for Porter from the get-go) extended to Porter. I'm not saying he's terrible, and I think he makes a solid #2 WR in the NFL, I just don't think he's #1 material by any means. I don't know if Jones will be any better or worse, I just don't think that Porter is good enough to say he's the automatic #1 when he returns to health. I don't think he's better than Reggie Williams, and likely not better than Northcutt but that's obviously arguable and may be just because I've soured on Porter. Comparing Porter to other Raiders' offensive players is not a good measuring stick. One year, Moss was a stud for a few weeks but was rendered about 60% for the rest of the season. The next year, Moss just flat didn't give a ####. Curry was just coming out, and popping his heel seemingly every year.

 

[KingEl]

Sporting News has a quote from Jacksoville Coach today saying Porter "isn't quite ready to play this week" against Indy. So that leaves Jones out as the starter!!!! So is this a good matchup for him? Since Colsten and Burleson went down for me, I am left with Muhammed or Jones to fill a spot. I was kind of leaning to starting Muhammed, but with the kind of targets Jones has been getting, maybe he deserves a shot..

 

[valhallan]

Hard to say what he's going to do this week. Jax's o-line was decimated but could be improving. Bob Sanders is out. Indy's offense has struggled until the second half of week two. So, will Jax have better success running the ball this week? Is Indy's offense back on track? Both answers will go a long way toward determining how many targets Jones sees.

 

[KingEl]

If Jacksonville just runs,runs, runs, then Jones won't get the targets, then again, that may open up the passing game as Indy sells out to stop the run.

 

[blackjack23]

Colts have given up the least fantasy pts to WRs so far. Yeah they played CHI & MIN so far who are run first teams but so is JAX. Except a ton of running. Jones is not a good option this week.

 

[Franknbeans]

Effect on Jones when Porter returns?

2 targets

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Sporting News has a quote from Jacksoville Coach today saying Porter "isn't quite ready to play this week" against Indy. So that leaves Jones out as the starter!!!! So is this a good matchup for him? Since Colsten and Burleson went down for me, I am left with Muhammed or Jones to fill a spot. I was kind of leaning to starting Muhammed, but with the kind of targets Jones has been getting, maybe he deserves a shot..

i'd start jones as Smith is back too.

 

[crnerblitz]

4. over the past 4 seasons he's only managed to catch 48% of his targets. That's brutal.

And he's had no QB throwing to him. Have you seen Tavaris Jackson throwing this year? Do you blame the MIN WRs for the number of "targets" they don't catch? Porter had crap at QB...

2004 - caught 47% of targets with Rich Gannon and Kerry Collins throwing to him. Yeah, no pro bowl quarterbacks there.

How many games did Gannon play that year? And Kerry Collins? LOL - you're kidding me if you are trying to argue he's a good QB... he's been shipped around so much, he probably wakes up each morning and checks what team he's on today.

Ronald Curry managed to catch 70% of the passes Collins threw to him that year.