Mel Kiper's Big Board (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

This is the first one I pay attention to

Mel gets a lot of criticism and he's lost a lot of front offices over the years with his criticisms which were often way off and unfair, but he does have the power of espn behind him and the advantage of being paid year round to do this with a variety of connections. So, here's the big board.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Jeff Samardzija Sr. WR Notre Dame

15. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

16. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

17. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

18. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

19. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

20. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

21. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

22. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

23. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

24. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

25. Chris Houston Jr. CB Arkansas

15 juniors debut on the big board. That explains why I don't pay attention until now. The top five have been discussed enough.

Gaines Adams nearly falls out of the top 10. I've been expecting this, and don't have him in my top 10. I think it's realistic. He could fall to the late teens easily. I really want to learn more about Jamaal Anderson and Reggie Nelson because I just don't see either as elite. I'm open minded.

Some surprises between 11-20. I mentioned in another thread a friend who (is sharp) and believes Ugoh is better than Joe Thomas. Well, Kiper has him OT2 and #17 overall. That's a strong endorsement. Meachem above Rice doesn't surprise me. All six of the top WRs have big time NFL talent, imo (Smarjia included, but he would be last not 3rd). I like Rice better than Mel. Okoye sitting at 13. I predict a slow slide from now to draft day. I thought Kalil moving into the top 25 with the underclassmen included was interesting. He really had a great year except for one game. But he is no Mangold, imo. And Charles Johnson (I told you so) is in the top 20 above and without Quentin Moses. Moses will be there in the end. He has too much potential. No Darrelle Revis? Boo. Chris Houston? Nice. I think he is very capable of being in the first round, ahead of the many names we've seen so far.

 

[Rounders]

From a FF perspective interesting to see Johnson #1, Peterson #5, and Lynch #19.

Very very interesting.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is the first one I pay attention to

Mel gets a lot of criticism and he's lost a lot of front offices over the years with his criticisms which were often way off and unfair, but he does have the power of espn behind him and the advantage of being paid year round to do this with a variety of connections. So, here's the big board.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Jeff Samardzija Sr. WR Notre Dame

15. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

16. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

17. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

18. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

19. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

20. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

21. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

22. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

23. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

24. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

25. Chris Houston Jr. CB Arkansas

15 juniors debut on the big board. That explains why I don't pay attention until now. The top five have been discussed enough.

Gaines Adams nearly falls out of the top 10. I've been expecting this, and don't have him in my top 10. I think it's realistic. He could fall to the late teens easily. I really want to learn more about Jamaal Anderson and Reggie Nelson because I just don't see either as elite. I'm open minded.

Some surprises between 11-20. I mentioned in another thread a friend who (is sharp) and believes Ugoh is better than Joe Thomas. Well, Kiper has him OT2 and #17 overall. That's a strong endorsement. Meachem above Rice doesn't surprise me. All six of the top WRs have big time NFL talent, imo (Smarjia included, but he would be last not 3rd). I like Rice better than Mel. Okoye sitting at 13. I predict a slow slide from now to draft day. I thought Kalil moving into the top 25 with the underclassmen included was interesting. He really had a great year except for one game. But he is no Mangold, imo. And Charles Johnson (I told you so) is in the top 20 above and without Quentin Moses. Moses will be there in the end. He has too much potential. No Darrelle Revis? Boo. Chris Houston? Nice. I think he is very capable of being in the first round, ahead of the many names we've seen so far.

I believe Kiper is at least 10 picks too high on Quinn...and at least 20 picks too high on his counterpart Samardzija...Samardzija ain't no Deion and he ain't no Bo, no way a two sport guy like this makes top 15 and rates over those other 3 WR's...he will be very lucky to go in the first. Lynch will rise and I am becoming more interested in Ugoh now...good stuff

I'm not positive, but I always thought that Kiper was ranking talent and not where he thought they'd end up. So hes saying that Jeff is a top 15 talent, not that he'll go top 15, and so the baseball thing doesn't even come into play.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm not positive, but I always thought that Kiper was ranking talent and not where he thought they'd end up. So hes saying that Jeff is a top 15 talent, not that he'll go top 15, and so the baseball thing doesn't even come into play.

I think that's right. His big board is player rankings which won't match draft projections.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I'm not positive, but I always thought that Kiper was ranking talent and not where he thought they'd end up. So hes saying that Jeff is a top 15 talent, not that he'll go top 15, and so the baseball thing doesn't even come into play.

I think that's right. His big board is player rankings which won't match draft projections.

Not that it matters, but I don't think this is correct. I think this reflects where he thinks they should go--his hypothetical big board if he were a GM--which would include context like MLB contract, drug / crime history, etc.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Right you are...I am saying Samardzija is not a top 15 talent and he doesn't rate over those other three WR's. One must factor in his Cubs MLB contract and his desire to play two sports imo.

I like his talent, but I agree it's not top 15. Remember pitchers aren't everyday baseball players. It's going to be interesting. He doesn't have to be Bo or Deion. He just has to pitch in the minors at first. The interesting thing is that it IS going to happen. He seems determined to play both and being a pitcher I think it is more realistic that what Bo and Deion were doing.

 

[lions327]

I will be interested to see how much this changes between now and the draft.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm not positive, but I always thought that Kiper was ranking talent and not where he thought they'd end up. So hes saying that Jeff is a top 15 talent, not that he'll go top 15, and so the baseball thing doesn't even come into play.

I think that's right. His big board is player rankings which won't match draft projections.

Not that it matters, but I don't think this is correct. I think this reflects where he thinks they should go--his hypothetical big board if he were a GM--which would include context like MLB contract, drug / crime history, etc.

Team needs are heavily reflected in Mel's mocks and he'll grab a player from the bottom of his big board and project him ten spots higher in his own mock. We'll have one very soon as an example.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I will be interested to see how much this changes between now and the draft.

He's notorious for "name changing" as a tool for attention seeking. He is better with the underclassmen, but I'll predict 20 names not on the big board hit it between now and the draft. And about 10 of the names above don't last through April.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Not that it matters, but I don't think this is correct. I think this reflects where he thinks they should go--his hypothetical big board if he were a GM--which would include context like MLB contract, drug / crime history, etc.

I also don't completely agree with my first response to this, because there's definitely truth in what you're saying. It's a bit of both. It is his GM's board, but it isn't what he'll project. Mostly I agree that it doesn't matter.

 

[coolnerd]

I will be interested to see how much this changes between now and the draft.

He's notorious for "name changing" as a tool for attention seeking. He is better with the underclassmen, but I'll predict 20 names not on the big board hit it between now and the draft. And about 10 of the names above don't last through April.

Not as pessimistic about Kiper's motivation on the changes, I think the board changes as he get better information from whichever scouting/insider moles that he uses. I know he claims to watch tape, but I think his opinion is continuely shaped by the connections that he has in the NFL. Also, if we were to ever see the board of an NFL team we probably would be surprised at the movement up, down and out especially when the coaches opinions start to be included. The all-star games and especially the senior bowl is really when coaches focus on the college evaluations.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I wish it went to 32 so I could see who the Bears prospect would be.

 

[komments]

I don't know how Jeff Samardzija Sr. will turn out at the pro level. Separation is not a matter of speed - it is more a matter of quickness and strength. Steve Largent was never that fast but he got a LOT of separation. Raghib Ismail was one of the fastest players ever to play the game and his separation was never that great. What Samardzija does do, and extremely well, is catch the ball. If he can run good routes, get off press coverage, and get even a modicum of separation, he will succeed at the next level.

Missing training camp will never be a good thing but having the athletic ability to even be considered as a two-sport professional says quite a bit about his pure athletic ability.

There are several very good NFL receivers that don't have a great deal of top end speed.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

I wish it went to 32 so I could see who the Bears prospect would be.

then it would only need to go to 29-30...

 

[Chaos Commish]

I will be interested to see how much this changes between now and the draft.

He's notorious for "name changing" as a tool for attention seeking. He is better with the underclassmen, but I'll predict 20 names not on the big board hit it between now and the draft. And about 10 of the names above don't last through April.

Not as pessimistic about Kiper's motivation on the changes, I think the board changes as he get better information from whichever scouting/insider moles that he uses. I know he claims to watch tape, but I think his opinion is continuely shaped by the connections that he has in the NFL. Also, if we were to ever see the board of an NFL team we probably would be surprised at the movement up, down and out especially when the coaches opinions start to be included. The all-star games and especially the senior bowl is really when coaches focus on the college evaluations.

Pretty sure Kiper's nfl connections mostly dried up a couple years ago, but I don't think they were ever very special. He made some enemies, but he historically has great college connections. Guys like Landry, Rang, and Gosselin seem to have NFL insider information. Kiper has the ESPN crew helping (and competing with him some), but it's his college connections that make him different. Either way, they all have insights us fans don't. I don't think accusing him of manipulating his board and mocks for attention is pessimistic. He needs publicity. It was publicity early in the 90s that made him. He is and always will be a publicity hound. No problem. He is missing Moses, Puz, Willis, Griffin, and he has Smarjia above Jarrett. I believe all of this is set up for change, deliberately. I am willing to bet he switches the wrs and includeds every name I mentioned by March 15th. Revis, Bowe and Tyler will also make the big board before this is done. I counted somewhere around 50 different names on the big board last Spring. He makes a new local paper every time he adds a new name. I agree with what you say about NFL big boards. I posted some stuff from KC's FO last year and they don't even have the board organized until mid March, by design. Most teams are probably similar. KC's looked like a giant spreadsheet overlaying a bunch of confusing flow charts with lots of pretty colors.

 

[coolnerd]

I will be interested to see how much this changes between now and the draft.

He's notorious for "name changing" as a tool for attention seeking. He is better with the underclassmen, but I'll predict 20 names not on the big board hit it between now and the draft. And about 10 of the names above don't last through April.

Not as pessimistic about Kiper's motivation on the changes, I think the board changes as he get better information from whichever scouting/insider moles that he uses. I know he claims to watch tape, but I think his opinion is continuely shaped by the connections that he has in the NFL. Also, if we were to ever see the board of an NFL team we probably would be surprised at the movement up, down and out especially when the coaches opinions start to be included. The all-star games and especially the senior bowl is really when coaches focus on the college evaluations.

Pretty sure Kiper's nfl connections mostly dried up a couple years ago, but I don't think they were ever very special. He made some enemies, but he historically has great college connections. Guys like Landry, Rang, and Gosselin seem to have NFL insider information. Kiper has the ESPN crew helping (and competing with him some), but it's his college connections that make him different. Either way, they all have insights us fans don't. I don't think accusing him of manipulating his board and mocks for attention is pessimistic. He needs publicity. It was publicity early in the 90s that made him. He is and always will be a publicity hound. No problem. He is missing Moses, Puz, Willis, Griffin, and he has Smarjia above Jarrett. I believe all of this is set up for change, deliberately. I am willing to bet he switches the wrs and includeds every name I mentioned by March 15th. Revis, Bowe and Tyler will also make the big board before this is done. I counted somewhere around 50 different names on the big board last Spring. He makes a new local paper every time he adds a new name. I agree with what you say about NFL big boards. I posted some stuff from KC's FO last year and they don't even have the board organized until mid March, by design. Most teams are probably similar. KC's looked like a giant spreadsheet overlaying a bunch of confusing flow charts with lots of pretty colors.

I do remember that 3 or 4 years ago, it became "cool" with draftniks to hate Kiper. As much as any single person could Kiper and his personality (like or not) is responsible for the coverage the draft gets. Joel B. was incredible at what he did, but for the draft to become what it is, someone had to be that publicity hound and a guy who refused to leave his basement was not going to drive that train. Kiper deserves credit for that. There are people who do what Kiper does better, but his overall end rankings and evaluations are solid, probably not spectacular. I here Gosslein weekly in Arlington and he does no personal scouting and does not talk draft until Feb/March. He is totally dependant on connections who trust the way he uses information.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I do remember that 3 or 4 years ago, it became "cool" with draftniks to hate Kiper. As much as any single person could Kiper and his personality (like or not) is as responsible for the coverage the draft gets. Joel B. was incredible at what he did, but for the draft to become what it is, someone had to be that publicity hound and a guy who refused to leave his basement was not going to drive that train. Kiper deserve credit for that. There are people who what Kiper does better, but his overall end rankings and evaluations are solid, probably not spectacular. I here Gosslein weekly in Arlington and he does no personal scouting and does not talk draft until Feb/March. He is totally dependant on connections who trust the way he uses information.

Right about Goose. Whoever those connections are though, whew. He called Whitner to the Bills! Kiper asked for the haters with his own arrogance. I don't recall the specifics but he wrote some outrageous stuff in his post draft grades (mid 90s) that anyone following could see as ridiculously all knowing. He came off like he knew for a fact exactly how a couple dozen players would turn out and then he just ripped several teams. Then regular beat reproters read up on Mel and asked questions starting with "Mel Kiper said... you're incredibly stupid and drafted a bunch of losers..." blah blah blah. The backlash was in several GM press conferences. Jim Rome had a field day with it (Who is Mel Kiper???). Kiper had haters. He asked for it. But, you're right. Addicts like me need to be very thankful Mel was such a blowhard back then. He is responsible for draft day being the event that it is. He helped make football a year round sport for the obsessed. GB Mel Kiper.He learned from his mistakes, and he does a very credible job.

 

[TwinTurbo]

The guy I don't get is

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

And I'm a Michigan fan. Everybody has Hall ranked in or near the top 10, but I just don't see it. He's a solid talent at CB and gets a lot of pass breakups. But he is not an elite top 10 talent.

I know that there is a premium placed on the CB position, much like QB. But I think Leon Hall is a bit overrated. However, he's one of the only CB's with a first round grade this year, so he will get picked early.

There are also several sources in Detroit reporting that the Lions are targeting Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson, with their first round pick. The rumor is that the Lions will absolutely not pick a QB or Peterson and are going after defense. It's probably just a smokescreen, but who knows.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The guy I don't get is 11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan I know that there is a premium placed on the CB position, much like QB. But I think Leon Hall is a bit overrated. However, he's one of the only CB's with a first round grade this year, so he will get picked early.

I'm already tired of agreeing with your take on this guy. Corners are a premium position. It is generally a weak draft with a weak crop of corners. There isn't a law that says a corner must be drafted early, but many in the media think there is. After Antrel Rolle played like a second day guy all year, you would think NFL front offices will be more cautious. I do. But the media only has precedent to go on, and Hall is the most likely suspect based on all his experience and high level of play at a major program. I give up trying to micro analyze his game. When I do, I see someone who shouldn't be in the top 30 of this class. If he rips a sub 4.4 he just might go near the top 10, but I'm almost positive he will never be worth it. If he runs behind a half dozen other corners expect him to fall to his actual value late in the first, early second.

 

[TeamDingo]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this but Kiper says about Marshawn Lynch "Complete big back". I think I have seen parts of 3 Cal games the past couple years. Lynch is listed as 5'11 217. Is he considered a big back in style? Who would a good recent pro comparison be? Thanks.

 

[cws3030]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this but Kiper says about Marshawn Lynch "Complete big back". I think I have seen parts of 3 Cal games the past couple years. Lynch is listed as 5'11 217. Is he considered a big back in style? Who would a good recent pro comparison be? Thanks.

these are just a few size comparisons-Cadillac Williams Height: 5-11 Weight: 217Laurence Maroney Height: 5-11 Weight: 220Clinton Portis Height: 5-11 Weight: 212Curtis Martin Height: 5-11 Weight: 210Willie Parker Height: 5-10 Weight: 209 Travis Henry Height: 5-9 Weight: 215Frank Gore Height: 5-9 Weight: 212

 

[Chaos Commish]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this but Kiper says about Marshawn Lynch "Complete big back". I think I have seen parts of 3 Cal games the past couple years. Lynch is listed as 5'11 217. Is he considered a big back in style? Who would a good recent pro comparison be? Thanks.

He's very different. Somewhere around here CalBear wrote the perfect description of Lynch. I don't compare him to anyone with a sense of "that's it." He has played over 225 at Cal and carried it well. With his 40 being over scrutinized expect him to be close to the 217 they've listed since he was 19. He'll carry between 225 and 230 for most of his career.

 

[Workhorse]

Reggie Nelson ahead of LaRon Landry?

 

[bez18]

Kind of surprised by Jarvis Moss being so low

 

[B. Nugget]

I saw on the scrolling ticker on ESPN on Monday that he had Brandon Jackson as his #3 RB on the big board. Obviously, Jackson didn't make this list of the top players, I find it interesting that is rated that high.

I know there are threads on mentioning Jackson and his decision to leave with Lucky the heir apparent in Nebraska, but is anybody else surprised to see Jackson listed as #3 RB on Kiper's big board?

 

[EBF]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for this but Kiper says about Marshawn Lynch "Complete big back". I think I have seen parts of 3 Cal games the past couple years. Lynch is listed as 5'11 217. Is he considered a big back in style? Who would a good recent pro comparison be? Thanks.

He's very different. Somewhere around here CalBear wrote the perfect description of Lynch. I don't compare him to anyone with a sense of "that's it." He has played over 225 at Cal and carried it well. With his 40 being over scrutinized expect him to be close to the 217 they've listed since he was 19. He'll carry between 225 and 230 for most of his career.

I compare Lynch to Kevin Jones, who was once considered a speed back, but has really been more of a power guy at the NFL level. In terms of style and build, Lynch is kind of a composite of Steven Jackson, Kevin Jones, and Edgerrin James (though he might not be as physically gifted as any of these three).

 

[EBF]

I saw on the scrolling ticker on ESPN on Monday that he had Brandon Jackson as his #3 RB on the big board. Obviously, Jackson didn't make this list of the top players, I find it interesting that is rated that high.I know there are threads on mentioning Jackson and his decision to leave with Lucky the heir apparent in Nebraska, but is anybody else surprised to see Jackson listed as #3 RB on Kiper's big board?

Kiper tends to take a few risks here and there. I don't think it's an absurd ranking. This is a fairly uninspiring RB class after the top two. I think Pittman and Irons are probably the next best backs, but Jackson isn't lightyears behind them. The bottom line for me is that all of the second and third tier RBs this year look to have significant warts. Identifying the RB3 is really like picking out the lesser of several evils. Jackson isn't a special talent, but he has a decent build and he displays decent wiggle. He kind of reminds me of Michael Pittman.

 

[slickwillie]

Right you are...I am saying Samardzija is not a top 15 talent and he doesn't rate over those other three WR's. One must factor in his Cubs MLB contract and his desire to play two sports imo.

I like his talent, but I agree it's not top 15. Remember pitchers aren't everyday baseball players. It's going to be interesting. He doesn't have to be Bo or Deion. He just has to pitch in the minors at first. The interesting thing is that it IS going to happen. He seems determined to play both and being a pitcher I think it is more realistic that what Bo and Deion were doing.

remember though to look at this from the baseball front office standpoint. if im a baseball gm, his situation is completely different than bo or deion in that he is a pitcher and i dont want my potential pitchers getting the #### knocked out of them and extending arms in traffic etc....my instinct says that baseball teams are gonna be very cool to the idea of him playing football, way more so than a bo or deion sanders (outfielder)

 

[jtnt1096]

IMO, the biggest issue with teams scouting and looking at Samardzija is not whether or not he can separate at the NFL level, but whether or not he will even play pro football. Someone could spend a pick on him and basically have it be a lost pick.

Now, I don't have any football contacts, but I do in baseball (scouts, college coaches, etc.) and they tell me that his future is being a closer in the Cubs system. I am not in the prediction business, but don't be surprised if Samardzija never steps foot on an NFL field.

 

[Chaos Commish]

i dont want my potential pitchers getting the #### knocked out of them and extending arms in traffic etc....

Good point! I have no idea how this is going to play out. My understanding is he had a high era and no movement on his fastball last year, but the potential is there because he hits his spots and has some big league pitches to go with decent heat. I read an article that made it sound like he really is happiest pitching. Unfortunately, he may be better at playing WR. I doubt he's good enough at both to do both at the highest levels.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Jackson listed as #3 RB on Kiper's big board?

Kiper tends to take a few risks here and there. Jackson isn't a special talent, but he has a decent build and he displays decent wiggle. He kind of reminds me of Michael Pittman.

After the first two RBs I don't have many strong opinions. At least not positive ones. Jackson could be the third picked and I wouldn't blink. Same if he is tenth picked. More than ever I bet #s 3-15 are highly shuffled between the 32 franchises.

 

[jtnt1096]

i dont want my potential pitchers getting the #### knocked out of them and extending arms in traffic etc....

Good point! I have no idea how this is going to play out. My understanding is he had a high era and no movement on his fastball last year, but the potential is there because he hits his spots and has some big league pitches to go with decent heat. I read an article that made it sound like he really is happiest pitching. Unfortunately, he may be better at playing WR. I doubt he's good enough at both to do both at the highest levels.

Samardzija made 7 starts last season. Went 1-2 with 2.70 ERA. His WHIP was decent at 1.20 (which is a lot better indicator than ERA). I saw him pitch for Peoria. Fastball had a lot of life. Opponents hit only .220 off him. He is still a little raw, but has the size and stuff to be a solid pitcher. Scouts tell me they see him eventually being a closer.

 

[Chaos Commish]

i dont want my potential pitchers getting the #### knocked out of them and extending arms in traffic etc....

Good point! I have no idea how this is going to play out. My understanding is he had a high era and no movement on his fastball last year, but the potential is there because he hits his spots and has some big league pitches to go with decent heat. I read an article that made it sound like he really is happiest pitching. Unfortunately, he may be better at playing WR. I doubt he's good enough at both to do both at the highest levels.

Samardzija made 7 starts last season. Went 1-2 with 2.70 ERA. His WHIP was decent at 1.20 (which is a lot better indicator than ERA). I saw him pitch for Peoria. Fastball had a lot of life. Opponents hit only .220 off him. He is still a little raw, but has the size and stuff to be a solid pitcher. Scouts tell me they see him eventually being closer.

Thanks for the input. So, baseball is his future? He already has a nice contract. He looks like a closer, which is bad for football (more involved day to day). I believe he really loves baseball. Let's face it, baseball is easier on the body. He won't make any of my rankings or mocks until this clears up some more.

 

[jtnt1096]

Interestingly enough, there was an article just put up today at Baseball America about the money Samardzija could get by committing to the Cubs. In the article it states the Cubs would like to lock him up with a baseball only deal possibly before the Senior Bowl.

www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/news/263149.html

 

[redman]

I wish it went to 32 so I could see who the Bears prospect would be.

Wouldn't it have to go into the 50's to find the Bears' first rounder?

 

[nygiants56]

This is the first one I pay attention to

Mel gets a lot of criticism and he's lost a lot of front offices over the years with his criticisms which were often way off and unfair, but he does have the power of espn behind him and the advantage of being paid year round to do this with a variety of connections. So, here's the big board.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Jeff Samardzija Sr. WR Notre Dame

15. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

16. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

17. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

18. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

19. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

20. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

21. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

22. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

23. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

24. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

25. Chris Houston Jr. CB Arkansas

15 juniors debut on the big board. That explains why I don't pay attention until now. The top five have been discussed enough.

Gaines Adams nearly falls out of the top 10. I've been expecting this, and don't have him in my top 10. I think it's realistic. He could fall to the late teens easily. I really want to learn more about Jamaal Anderson and Reggie Nelson because I just don't see either as elite. I'm open minded.

Some surprises between 11-20. I mentioned in another thread a friend who (is sharp) and believes Ugoh is better than Joe Thomas. Well, Kiper has him OT2 and #17 overall. That's a strong endorsement. Meachem above Rice doesn't surprise me. All six of the top WRs have big time NFL talent, imo (Smarjia included, but he would be last not 3rd). I like Rice better than Mel. Okoye sitting at 13. I predict a slow slide from now to draft day. I thought Kalil moving into the top 25 with the underclassmen included was interesting. He really had a great year except for one game. But he is no Mangold, imo. And Charles Johnson (I told you so) is in the top 20 above and without Quentin Moses. Moses will be there in the end. He has too much potential. No Darrelle Revis? Boo. Chris Houston? Nice. I think he is very capable of being in the first round, ahead of the many names we've seen so far.

I believe Kiper is at least 10 picks too high on Quinn...and at least 20 picks too high on his counterpart Samardzija...Samardzija ain't no Deion and he ain't no Bo, no way a two sport guy like this makes top 15 and rates over those other 3 WR's...he will be very lucky to go in the first. Lynch will rise and I am becoming more interested in Ugoh now...good stuff

Samardzija is another Jurevicious , i.e , a tall WR with good hands, but doesn't possess ideal speed to be a difference maker..I doubt Samardzija is even drafted on the first day. Like ND, he's overrated. plus, there's the baseball thing..

 

[kevthegrad]

Can't you just hear Mel at all the college campus frat parties?

"Hi, I'm Mel, and I want to show you my big board. Yes, my hair is real, want to touch it? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

 

[redman]

This is the first one I pay attention to

Mel gets a lot of criticism and he's lost a lot of front offices over the years with his criticisms which were often way off and unfair, but he does have the power of espn behind him and the advantage of being paid year round to do this with a variety of connections. So, here's the big board.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Jeff Samardzija Sr. WR Notre Dame

15. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

16. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

17. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

18. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

19. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

20. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

21. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

22. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

23. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

24. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

25. Chris Houston Jr. CB Arkansas

15 juniors debut on the big board. That explains why I don't pay attention until now. The top five have been discussed enough.

Gaines Adams nearly falls out of the top 10. I've been expecting this, and don't have him in my top 10. I think it's realistic. He could fall to the late teens easily. I really want to learn more about Jamaal Anderson and Reggie Nelson because I just don't see either as elite. I'm open minded.

Some surprises between 11-20. I mentioned in another thread a friend who (is sharp) and believes Ugoh is better than Joe Thomas. Well, Kiper has him OT2 and #17 overall. That's a strong endorsement. Meachem above Rice doesn't surprise me. All six of the top WRs have big time NFL talent, imo (Smarjia included, but he would be last not 3rd). I like Rice better than Mel. Okoye sitting at 13. I predict a slow slide from now to draft day. I thought Kalil moving into the top 25 with the underclassmen included was interesting. He really had a great year except for one game. But he is no Mangold, imo. And Charles Johnson (I told you so) is in the top 20 above and without Quentin Moses. Moses will be there in the end. He has too much potential. No Darrelle Revis? Boo. Chris Houston? Nice. I think he is very capable of being in the first round, ahead of the many names we've seen so far.

I believe Kiper is at least 10 picks too high on Quinn...and at least 20 picks too high on his counterpart Samardzija...Samardzija ain't no Deion and he ain't no Bo, no way a two sport guy like this makes top 15 and rates over those other 3 WR's...he will be very lucky to go in the first. Lynch will rise and I am becoming more interested in Ugoh now...good stuff

Samardzija is another Jurevicious , i.e , a tall WR with good hands, but doesn't possess ideal speed to be a difference maker..I doubt Samardzija is even drafted on the first day. Like ND, he's overrated. plus, there's the baseball thing..

Agreed. Assuming a full-time commitment to football, he's a 2nd or 3rd round talent. If he's playing baseball he may not be drafted until the 2nd day.

 

[Chaos Commish]

He was Bowe when Bowe wasn't cool

So with everyone on the Bowe bandwagon, Mel hops off.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

15. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

16. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

17. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

18. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

19. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

20. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

21. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

22. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

23. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

24. Adam Carriker Sr. DE Nebraska

25. Anthony Spencer Sr. DE Purdue

 

[bostonfred]

Samardzija is another Jurevicious

Are you sure he isn't another McCaffrey? He seems like more of an intelligent receiver, than an athletic one.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Samardzija is another Jurevicious

Are you sure he isn't another McCaffrey? He seems like more of an intelligent receiver, than an athletic one.

The guy got major contracts in 2 sports (assuming first round pick in NFL), sounts pretty athletic to me.

 

[bostonfred]

Samardzija is another Jurevicious

Are you sure he isn't another McCaffrey? He seems like more of an intelligent receiver, than an athletic one.

The guy got major contracts in 2 sports (assuming first round pick in NFL), sounts pretty athletic to me.

I was being facetious.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

He was Bowe when Bowe wasn't cool

So with everyone on the Bowe bandwagon, Mel hops off.

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

3. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

4. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

5. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

7. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

8. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

9. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

11. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

12. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

13. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

14. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

15. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

16. Tony Ugoh Sr. OT Arkansas

17. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

18. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

19. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

20. Jarvis Moss Jr. DE Florida

21. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

22. Ryan Kalil Sr. C USC

23. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

24. Adam Carriker Sr. DE Nebraska

25. Anthony Spencer Sr. DE Purdue

Leon Hall is high based on reputation. Doesn't sound like he had that great of a week at the Senior Bowl practices.Ditto for Ugoh. WTF? He had a poor week, Staley a solid one, yet it's Ugoh in the top 20?

And it looks like Kiper hates the LB crop this year too. Case in point? Paul Posluszny & Patrick Willis. If they're not top 25, they're 25 & 26.

Thank god the underclassmen declared. It sure made for a much better 2nd round.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Leon Hall is high based on reputation. Doesn't sound like he had that great of a week at the Senior Bowl practices.Ditto for Ugoh. WTF? He had a poor week, Staley a solid one, yet it's Ugoh in the top 20? And it looks like Kiper hates the LB crop this year too. Case in point? Paul Posluszny & Patrick Willis. If they're not top 25, they're 25 & 26. Thank god the underclassmen declared. It sure made for a much better 2nd round.

Yeah without the 40 underclassmen there'd be no need for day two. On the LBs, I'm very high on Willis and cannot imagine Puz being a disappointment. After that it gets dicey, but they ARE going to be drafted and get a chance. Remember with Ugoh this is very much about potential not performance. I can go for that, and it explains why I didn't take note during the season. If Bloom says he saw an amazing athlete at that size, then okay by me. He's a Cowboy in a forthcoming mock. It felt good to give them an OL and he was my JJ pick (Arkansas). Reports on Hall are conflicting. I think I read between the lines or past the lip service better than most, and I have to agree that he did himself some damage. One scout reportedly calling him, "just another guy." Another suggesting "a few" CBs looked as good or better. GBN reporting him getting beat repeatedly and looking lost. Remember Kiper makes changes, imo, on a preconceived plan for publicity. Bowe falling out after this week makes no sense. I think it was just preordained and he was blindsided by Bowe's performance.Hijacking my own thread:Scott Wright has posted rumors about a player working out in Arizona who is going to blow minds at the Combine. A scout friend of his said he had to do a double take when this kid ran the 40. He said he needs to confirm the time wasn't fluke before leaking a name, but whoever this is is well known and a very surprising super freak who WILL shoot up draft boards. The same scout said from a measureable standpoint this is the best group to ever show up in AZ (@ Athlete's Performance). As weak as the overall class is, the elite talent is very good. Scott thinks this kid is a big lineman. But speculation is all over. I could care less if it wasn't for the "shoot up the draftboards" thing.Now I have a source who consults with a group that does the same as Athlete's Performance but in San Diego (on a much smaller scale). He knows several of the guys out in Arizona. I told him the rumor. He made a call. He emailed me and said:

This one is top secret for now. If I have a name, I wouldn't give it up. RUMOR VALID.

So this is bugging me. Here's my speculation.If Charles Johnson is in AZ, then I think it must be him. I can't find out if he's even there though, but he looked like Superman to me this season.I know Meachem is ripping some blazing times, but I have a feeling this will be more surprising than another sub 4.4 WR. Michael Bush may be much more of a freak than we know, and he is there.Jamaal Anderson is there and he was a hoops star and WR in HS. Interesting.It is NOT someone at the Senior Bowl, and that makes this even more intriguing.

 

[slimflop]

Senior Bowl Chat with Mel and Todd Mcshay was free no insider

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14441

 

[Chaos Commish]

Senior Bowl Chat with Mel and Todd Mcshay was free no insider

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14441

Thanks for posting that. I think it made my point. Kiper is calling Bowe a mid first rounder and the guy who helped himself the most, but he dropped from the latest big board? I'm telling you his big board is a tool for publicity and he got caught with his pants down here.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Hijacking my own thread:Scott Wright has posted rumors about a player working out in Arizona who is going to blow minds at the Combine. A scout friend of his said he had to do a double take when this kid ran the 40. He said he needs to confirm the time wasn't fluke before leaking a name, but whoever this is is well known and a very surprising super freak who WILL shoot up draft boards. The same scout said from a measureable standpoint this is the best group to ever show up in AZ (@ Athlete's Performance). As weak as the overall class is, the elite talent is very good. Scott thinks this kid is a big lineman. But speculation is all over. I could care less if it wasn't for the "shoot up the draftboards" thing.Now I have a source who consults with a group that does the same as Athlete's Performance but in San Diego (on a much smaller scale). He knows several of the guys out in Arizona. I told him the rumor. He made a call. He emailed me and said:

This one is top secret for now. If I have a name, I wouldn't give it up. RUMOR VALID.

So this is bugging me. Here's my speculation.If Charles Johnson is in AZ, then I think it must be him. I can't find out if he's even there though, but he looked like Superman to me this season.I know Meachem is ripping some blazing times, but I have a feeling this will be more surprising than another sub 4.4 WR. Michael Bush may be much more of a freak than we know, and he is there.Jamaal Anderson is there and he was a hoops star and WR in HS. Interesting.It is NOT someone at the Senior Bowl, and that makes this even more intriguing.

I read that thread and couldn't figure out who they were talking about. Too bad he couldn't narrow it down a bit. Give us offense/defense or skill/non-skill!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Kiper's board as of 2/1

1. Calvin Johnson Jr. WR Georgia Tech

Hard worker and team oriented.

2. Joe Thomas Sr. OT Wisconsin

Imposing lineman with great quickness.

3. Adrian Peterson Jr. RB Oklahoma

Great runner, but durability is a concern.

4. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

Poised and at his best under pressure.

5. JaMarcus Russell Jr. QB LSU

Big and strong with a powerful arm.

6. Jamaal Anderson Jr. DE Arkansas

Gifted athlete and a complete player.

7. Alan Branch Jr. DT Michigan

A space-eater along the interior.

8. Ted Ginn Jr. Jr. WR Ohio State

Takes a backseat to no one in speed.

9. Amobi Okoye Sr. DT Louisville

Quick, strong and gets penetration into the backfield.

10. Gaines Adams Sr. DE Clemson

Dominating ability with his athleticism.

11. LaRon Landry Sr. DB LSU

Leader on one of the nation's best defenses.

12. Reggie Nelson Jr. S Florida

Can hit like a safety and cover like a CB.

13. Dwayne Jarrett Jr. WR USC

Can create mismatches against smaller cornerbacks.

14. Levi Brown Sr. OT Penn St.

Reliable at protecting his QB's blind side.

15. Charles Johnson Jr. DE Georgia

Workout numbers should be eye catching.

16. Adam Carriker Sr. DE Nebraska

Runs unbelievably well for 300-pound DE.

17. Leon Hall Sr. CB Michigan

Great anticipation and awareness in coverage.

18. Dwayne Bowe Sr. WR LSU

Runs great routes and is tough in traffic.

19. Robert Meachem Jr. WR Tennessee

Could elevate with a fast time at the combine.

20. Sidney Rice Jr. WR South Carolina

Above average hands and nice burst.

21. Lawrence Timmons Jr. LB Florida State

Production and consistency are what jump out.

22. Anthony Spencer Sr. DE Purdue

Athleticism will make him an ideal OLB in the NFL.

23. Tim Crowder Sr. DE Texas

Became a bigger playmaker for Texas in 2006.

24. Marshawn Lynch Jr. RB California

A complete back with good size.

25. Aaron Ross Sr. CB Texas

Led Longhorns in INT and PBUs in 2006.

Dropped Off:

Tony Ugoh

Jarvis Moss

Ryan Kalil

 

[IndyHavoc]

22. Anthony Spencer Sr. DE Purdue

Athleticism will make him an ideal OLB in the NFL.

Bah! Dangit, I was really hoping he'd stay completely under the radar and Indy could snag him up. Don't know if they'd play him at OLB though, I suppose if he focuses on getting leaner (he's already got the speed and strength). IDP guys should definitely keep an eye on where this guy goes. He'll need to continue to get coached up on being patient and need some gap-awareness (if he's reeally going to play OLB). Personally, I'd like to see him get into an NFL weight-lifting and play at a 4-3 end. The guy has great moves and instincts at playing both the run and the pass. Never seems to be pushed out of position, and it ALWAYS getting good pressure on the QB/pocket. He's run some of the quickest RB/QB's in the big-10 down from behind (giving them 1-2 steps and still closing them down before they get around the corner). He's got a good-to-great motor. Not the best, but definitely plays hard every play. My only concern about him is that after it became clear he was the guy on Purdue's defense this year, he was schemed out (QB's making quick throws to his side, chipping RB's, TE + T double team). Watching the last 3 games, he just never seemed to get 1v1 ever. Still forced pressure on the pocket, but always seemed to be 1/2 step away from sacks and FF's. Hopefully some good NFL coaching will get him over that hump.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

4. Brady Quinn Sr. QB Notre Dame

Poised and at his best under pressure.

Anyone else find this comment strange as Quinn's reputation has been one that HASN'T performed well under pressure?