Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
yeah, 10.1 already covered. Wow.Biabreakable said:
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MIA put franchise tag on Jarvis Landry (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fightingillini
- Start date
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Wow?
Your making a big deal out of something that I'm not sure is relevant and also not entirely accurate.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Fair enough. It's not what I've observed - but obviously I don't watch every game and I'm not going to refute stats. I still don't think he's a playmaker and deserving to be a team's top option or paid like one. Last season he did score 9 TDs (albeit on 110 catches and not breaking 900 yards) but he's generally not scored TDs and his 10.1 ypr is pretty pathetic for a WR.Biabreakable said:
Anyway, I don't want to bash the guy like I said he's effective for what he is and is a valuable NFL player - and I'll probably have egg on my face when my Jets stupidly trade for him and overpay him.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
What is the yards per reception threshold that you think a WR needs to achieve?
It is very similar to the many yards per carry arguments. Doesn't really matter. If he averages over 10 yards per reception that is moving the chains and getting 1st downs. Not sure why this number is such a bad thing?
What I consider inaccurate is you describing Landry as only a slot WR when he is clearly more than that, although this is a role that he thrives in. There are several negative misconceptions about the slot WR position and how valuable such a player may be to an offense.
I do think Landry playing outside more last season was at least in part because Parker was injured. His numbers were not as good in 2017 as 2016 when he ran 72% of his routes from the slot, which does perhaps support your view about him primarily being a slot WR, as he did better being used in that way compared to 2017 where he only ran from the slot half of the time.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Yeah but Cassel got a huge contract. Why would Landry sign an lower long term contract with any team now. Take the Kirk Cousins route and take the 16 million this year and be a free agent next year. It’s the smartest move he can make plus he’ll get to pick his team.FF Ninja said:
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This will be the last time I respond - nothing to do with you I just don't wish to keep rehashing the same arguments over and over - but a low ypr shows that he's not a game breaker and not talented enough to really challenge a defense. I stand by my assertion that catching a ton of balls, while valuable, isn't as impressive when its by default (lack of other options - bad QB that takes the safe way out constantly). And I do think he's stretched as an outside #1WR option because he isn't tough to cover downfield. He is quick (not fast) and runs good routes - and he's reliable. His high reception totals are somewhat hollow though as he does not gain high yardage totals nor does he score TDs (outside of last season when he scored 9). So I feel that he's being fed targets by default - if Parker had ever developed like they thought he would I don't think Landry would see as many targets - assuming Tannehill was good enough to adapt.
I think franchise tagging him is a bad decision by the Dolphins because I don't see it as money well spent. Personally $16MM thrown at Allen Robinson gives a better return (and that's too much for him even). He's a valuable asset in ppr leagues for sure, but sometimes fantasy clouds real football analysis (not accusing you of that at all - you know your stuff).
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
If yards per reception don’t matter why do teams try long passes with less chance of success?
Yards per reception is a very flawed stat, because some guys mostly just run deep routes, and only are thrown to, when they are open. I mean nobody would make the case DeSean Jackson is better than Antonio Brown or J.J. Nelson is better than Larry Fitzgerald right?
This is fair, but we're not talking about a guy who only catches 40 receptions. Generally, a guy catching 80+ balls should be running a diverse route tree.
Random Landry stats from last season:
More than 1 out of every 5 of his receptions, 21%, the ball was thrown behind the LOS and 77% of his receptions the ball was thrown less than 10 yards. Less than 2% of his catches, which was 2 total, the ball was thrown longer than 20 yards.
7% of his catches and 4% of his reception yardage was obtained while leading. 74% of his receptions and 80% of his reception yardage was while trailing.
More than 1 out of every 5 of his receptions, 21%, the ball was thrown behind the LOS and 77% of his receptions the ball was thrown less than 10 yards. Less than 2% of his catches, which was 2 total, the ball was thrown longer than 20 yards.
7% of his catches and 4% of his reception yardage was obtained while leading. 74% of his receptions and 80% of his reception yardage was while trailing.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's not the same argument anyone here is making but I suspect you already know that. I would hope so at least.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Because they are trying to score TD and also to force the defense to cover more of the field.
The amount of times teams go deep compared to short or medium range is pretty small. Teams usually try to time their deep shots to be when the defense isn't expecting it.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Have you done research on every NFL WR's salary? I'd be curious to see where they all stack up. That's the only real tell here.
His best comps are players like Edelman, Crowder, Tate, old Fitzgerald, and Cobb. And those aren't really perfect comps, either. Tate isn't as good at catching passes in traffic, but he's much better after the catch. Old Fitzgerald is probably the best comp, but he's a future first ballot hall of famer and, IMO, still a better football player than Landry, yet he's only making $11M/year (the most of all the guys mentioned). So $16M for Landry seems crazy. Less crazy if you have a ton of cap space like the Browns/Jets, more crazy if you have very little cap space like the Dolphins.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Fitz > Landry by a mile no doubt. However, when did Fitz sing that deal? As we all know, pay goes up every season. Look at what JG just got.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Paying that much for what essentially amounts to an above average third down back is ludicrous. I’d love to see some of the most athletic WR’s and RB’s in the league get the volume Landry does at the LOS and what they would be able to do with it.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Miami defenders all breathe a sigh of relief.....they won't have their careers ended by a Landry cheap shot in 2018.
Tagging him this early is to see if any team has an interest in trading for Landry. Miami did the same thing with Clay and Vernon and ended up removing the tag on both after no deals could be made. They will remove the tag for Landry at some point too - they were never going to keep him and I'm sure his agent know that too.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Probably get the snot beat out of them...players like Landry may have some limitations but their ability to take punishment is an incredibly underrated skill...some of the hits Welker took with the Pats were beyond brutal...that position is not for everyone...
ghostguy123
Footballguy
And why the heck hasnt he rushed to sign it yet?
They prollly plan to resfind it as soon as he tries
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Cassel got 10 million a year for 6 years. Which was pretty high back then. My point was why would Landry sign for say 10 million a year when he can make 16 this year and be a free agent next year. There is almost zero chance he is traded. Either the dolphins overpay him on a longer deal or he walks in a year.
Given the ratio of franchise tag value to yearly value, the equivalent would be Landry signing for $11M/year for 6 years with $31M guaranteed.
Don't get me wrong. If I was Landry, I'd take the $16M. But players have shown a willingness to take less per year for a longer deal. Plus, he seemingly has bad blood with the Miami front office and wants out...
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Nah.... they have to let him sign it. My guess is they make him use one of these pens to sign it though.....
https://www.amazon.com/Disappear-Invisible-Slowly-within-Hours/dp/B016OTNY7G/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1519322927&sr=1-1&keywords=disappearing+ink&dpID=41on%2BiBYA7L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I was actually thinking the reason for the early tag was MIA already had an offer in hand and they were waiting for Landry to negotiate a long term contract with the interested team(probably before FA, definitely before the draft). It seemed like the reported Alex Smith extension was leaked at the same time the trade was leaked. Also, it might be an incentive to Landry to come to terms with a team since MIA technically controls his future while under the tag.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
As a Dolphins fan I'm OK with them paying Landry $16m just so I don't have to see him suit up for the Patriots and blow up for 14 catches for 120 yards and 2 TDs every time we play them.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
They arent trading him. They will cut Timmons, thomas and suh
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Uh, no. It costs $22M to cut him and $26M to keep him. You don't think he's worth $4M to them?
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/373624/report-dolphins-expected-to-deal-landry?ls=roto:MIA:topheadlines
"According to Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald, it would be a "stunner" if the Dolphins did not trade franchise player Jarvis Landry in the next few weeks.
Per Beasley, the Dolphins remain "open" to signing Landry to a long-term deal but a trade remains the "likeliest outcome." The Ravens should be in the mix for Landry after attempting to trade for him last year. Beasley also mentioned the Browns, who own six of top 65 picks in the upcoming draft, and the 49ers as possible suitors. If the Dolphins can't trade Landry in the coming weeks, it would severely limit their options in free agency."
