Michael Vick week 3 stat correction (1 Viewer)

[Bo Skiboski]

Looks like they're changing a play with 1:29 left in the 3rd quarter from a sack to a Vick rush that lost 12 yards. Vick's rushing numbers go from 27 to 15. Changed the outcome of a game in my league.

 

[Bo Skiboski]

Here is the play. Any statistical experts know why this play is considered a rush and not a sack?

www.nflgsis.com/2012/reg/03/55546/q3129r.wmv it's a download, 4 second video

 

[Wombat x]

I have ARI DST, why didn't they take away a sack from them as well?

 

[Bo Skiboski]

I have ARI DST, why didn't they take away a sack from them as well?

I believe they did. Daryl Washington lost a sack. Went from 2 sacks to 1.

 

[Captain Hook]

I have ARI DST, why didn't they take away a sack from them as well?

I believe they did. Daryl Washington lost a sack. Went from 2 sacks to 1.

Washington went from 2 to 1 BUT Acho went from 0 to 1 so no net change for AZ DST

 

[Bo Skiboski]

I have ARI DST, why didn't they take away a sack from them as well?

I believe they did. Daryl Washington lost a sack. Went from 2 sacks to 1.

Washington went from 2 to 1 BUT Acho went from 0 to 1 so no net change for AZ DST

Ah, OK. That was a different play though.

 

[bonesman]

this stat correction saved me from a .08 (two passing yards) loss

 

[Bo Skiboski]

Why is this not a sack??

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Why is this not a sack??

makes no sense. textbook up the middle sack?

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Two things, as someone who has done football stats (though not NFL):

1. Tackle happened outside the hash marks (aka the "pocket")

2. There was no obvious intent that Vick was going to throw the ball.

From what I've read, statisticians also will review blocking schemes to try to determine intent for 2.). However, in this case it happened so fast and Vick never gave the impression of trying to set up, so I'm guessing the statisticians tend to err on the side of calling it a "rush" rather than a "pass attempt."

--

For the record, I lost a game in a IDP league last year when Chris Clemons had a sack taken away. Can't remember the QB, but he was set up to pass and then took one step forward as if to scramble before being planted by Clemons. Initially was ruled a sack, changed to a rush.

It tends to be the most common stat correction in a given week.

 

[Bo Skiboski]

Two things, as someone who has done football stats (though not NFL):1. Tackle happened outside the hash marks (aka the "pocket")2. There was no obvious intent that Vick was going to throw the ball.From what I've read, statisticians also will review blocking schemes to try to determine intent for 2.). However, in this case it happened so fast and Vick never gave the impression of trying to set up, so I'm guessing the statisticians tend to err on the side of calling it a "rush" rather than a "pass attempt."--For the record, I lost a game in a IDP league last year when Chris Clemons had a sack taken away. Can't remember the QB, but he was set up to pass and then took one step forward as if to scramble before being planted by Clemons. Initially was ruled a sack, changed to a rush.It tends to be the most common stat correction in a given week.

Great post. i just don't know how they could determine Vick had no obvious intent to throw when the defenders were on him the second the ball was snapped. It was a jailbreak. Guys get sacked all the time without having time to show that they were intending to pass.

 

[Ryan99]

This is the inherent problem in trying to clump things together in broad categories when the differences are much more subtle or don't really exist at all.

A RB getting brought down behind the line is a rush for a loss, not a sack. But what if the play was a RB pass, is that a sack? What about a designed QB draw that gets blown up so quickly that the QB never gets out of his backpedal?

An end around, screen pass or sack for a 5 yard loss all have the exact same impact on game conditions (down and distance). They should be the same in the stats as well. If you say that sacks are better because you're hitting the QB, then include QB hits as a stat. It doesn't matter if the QB gets drilled just before or just after he throws the pass, the hit has the same effect.

 

[Bo Skiboski]

This is the inherent problem in trying to clump things together in broad categories when the differences are much more subtle or don't really exist at all.A RB getting brought down behind the line is a rush for a loss, not a sack. But what if the play was a RB pass, is that a sack? What about a designed QB draw that gets blown up so quickly that the QB never gets out of his backpedal?An end around, screen pass or sack for a 5 yard loss all have the exact same impact on game conditions (down and distance). They should be the same in the stats as well. If you say that sacks are better because you're hitting the QB, then include QB hits as a stat. It doesn't matter if the QB gets drilled just before or just after he throws the pass, the hit has the same effect.

Not sure what this has to do with this particular play.