Micheal Clayton runs his mouth on Gruden (1 Viewer)

[PewterFan]

Clayton...When he came back he flat out sucked. Gruden was forced to turn him into a blocker because he couldn't gain separation.

And he had a bad case of the dropies. The difference between his rookie season and him now is night and day.

 

[T Bell]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

Not sure why people don't get this. LOL, at everyone bashing on Clayton because he has an opinion. You guys post on this board everyday and post your opinion. So let me get this right, Clayton who was in the lockeroom and knows more than we do voiced his opinion about a coach that was present when he was playing and he's now getting bashed for it?!?! Wow

ETA: That includes King as well and when did a man's performance determine his "credibility"?

You aren't really this thick, are you? The talent of these guys isn't in question. Everyone loves a modestly talented guy who works his ### off, and those guys tend to have a lot of credibility because if they talk, you know they're doing so without the luxury of their talent cushioning them from the negative repercussions from their comments if things go bad. What we're looking at is whether these guys are complete clowns, or whether they have a beef personally with Gruden as an explanation for their negative comments. In Clayton's and Keyshawn's case, both criteria apply. In Shaun King's case, he wasn't a clown but he was benched by Gruden and lost his job because he wasn't all that good, and he likely can't come to grips with that so he's blaming Gruden for his career downfall.

Clayton's on-field production, which was far below his potential, is relevant insofar as it explains why Gruden was hard on him, and therefore why Clayton dislikes Gruden. Got it?

 

[massraider]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

Not sure why people don't get this. LOL, at everyone bashing on Clayton because he has an opinion. You guys post on this board everyday and post your opinion. So let me get this right, Clayton who was in the lockeroom and knows more than we do voiced his opinion about a coach that was present when he was playing and he's now getting bashed for it?!?! Wow

ETA: That includes King as well and when did a man's performance determine his "credibility"?

You aren't really this thick, are you? The talent of these guys isn't in question. Everyone loves a modestly talented guy who works his ### off, and those guys tend to have a lot of credibility because if they talk, you know they're doing so without the luxury of their talent cushioning them from the negative repercussions from their comments if things go bad. What we're looking at is whether these guys are complete clowns, or whether they have a beef personally with Gruden as an explanation for their negative comments. In Clayton's and Keyshawn's case, both criteria apply. In Shaun King's case, he wasn't a clown but he was benched by Gruden and lost his job because he wasn't all that good, and he likely can't come to grips with that so he's blaming Gruden for his career downfall.

Clayton's on-field production, which was far below his potential, is relevant insofar as it explains why Gruden was hard on him, and therefore why Clayton dislikes Gruden. Got it?

The counter to that argument is that maybe Gruden failed to get the most out of Clayton, failed as a coach to get him to reach his potential.Another argument is that some posters round here may have a beef with Clayton, as they may have wasted draft picks on him over the years ( ).

The point he was making is valid. Does Clayton's opinion have no validity because he is disappointing as a player?

If so, we should probably invalidate all football opinions round here, as the majority come from chubby white guys sitting in cubicles.

 

[gump]

The point he was making is valid.

Derrick Brooks said it was not valid. I know who I'm listening to.

 

[T Bell]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

Not sure why people don't get this. LOL, at everyone bashing on Clayton because he has an opinion. You guys post on this board everyday and post your opinion. So let me get this right, Clayton who was in the lockeroom and knows more than we do voiced his opinion about a coach that was present when he was playing and he's now getting bashed for it?!?! Wow

ETA: That includes King as well and when did a man's performance determine his "credibility"?

You aren't really this thick, are you? The talent of these guys isn't in question. Everyone loves a modestly talented guy who works his ### off, and those guys tend to have a lot of credibility because if they talk, you know they're doing so without the luxury of their talent cushioning them from the negative repercussions from their comments if things go bad. What we're looking at is whether these guys are complete clowns, or whether they have a beef personally with Gruden as an explanation for their negative comments. In Clayton's and Keyshawn's case, both criteria apply. In Shaun King's case, he wasn't a clown but he was benched by Gruden and lost his job because he wasn't all that good, and he likely can't come to grips with that so he's blaming Gruden for his career downfall.

Clayton's on-field production, which was far below his potential, is relevant insofar as it explains why Gruden was hard on him, and therefore why Clayton dislikes Gruden. Got it?

The counter to that argument is that maybe Gruden failed to get the most out of Clayton, failed as a coach to get him to reach his potential.Another argument is that some posters round here may have a beef with Clayton, as they may have wasted draft picks on him over the years ( ).

The point he was making is valid. Does Clayton's opinion have no validity because he is disappointing as a player?

If so, we should probably invalidate all football opinions round here, as the majority come from chubby white guys sitting in cubicles.

Wrong. You don't know this. You aren't in that lockerroom or the team meetings or on the sideline. You're simply choosing who to believe here, and I've been pointing out that the folks like you choosing to believe the negative stuff about Gruden are siding with a group of underperforming malcontents who fell out of favor with Gruden and who have reason to want to hurt his reputation. By contrast, why aren't we hearing this stuff from Warren Sapp, who has a microphone strapped to him for a living and who is about as shy as Charles Barkley when it comes to his willingness to criticize or speak frankly?

 

[brednbuddah]

Shaun King didn't have favorable things to say about Gruden either. I know he isn't the best example of talent but it is clear that Gruden is not a players coach and his ego has gotten way too big.

Really? It is clear? Because two losers say so? WOW

what about Chris Simms, Jeff Garcia, Keyshawn Johnson.... They've also have had issues with Gruden. at some point, you gotta think there may be some truth to their claims.

So you've got a guy who lost his job after he lost his spleen, a guy who lost his job due to ineffectiveness, and a guy who was paid to stay home before getting shipped out of town because he was simply a sphincter. This is quite the menagerie of Gruden critics you're marching out here.

turn on channel 5 boss... jay glazer just reported that "THE PLAYERS DISTRUST IN GRUDEN" led to his firing. I don't care either way about gruden. all I'm saying is you've got more than one person making unfavorable comments about gruden. at some point you have to take it into consideration. otherwise, you're being ignorant.

 

[T Bell]

Shaun King didn't have favorable things to say about Gruden either. I know he isn't the best example of talent but it is clear that Gruden is not a players coach and his ego has gotten way too big.

Really? It is clear? Because two losers say so? WOW

what about Chris Simms, Jeff Garcia, Keyshawn Johnson.... They've also have had issues with Gruden. at some point, you gotta think there may be some truth to their claims.

So you've got a guy who lost his job after he lost his spleen, a guy who lost his job due to ineffectiveness, and a guy who was paid to stay home before getting shipped out of town because he was simply a sphincter. This is quite the menagerie of Gruden critics you're marching out here.

turn on channel 5 boss... jay glazer just reported that "THE PLAYERS DISTRUST IN GRUDEN" led to his firing. I don't care either way about gruden. all I'm saying is you've got more than one person making unfavorable comments about gruden. at some point you have to take it into consideration. otherwise, you're being ignorant.

Who? Tell me their names. So far it's just been the resident malcontents going on the record about this.

 

[brednbuddah]

Shaun King didn't have favorable things to say about Gruden either. I know he isn't the best example of talent but it is clear that Gruden is not a players coach and his ego has gotten way too big.

Really? It is clear? Because two losers say so? WOW

what about Chris Simms, Jeff Garcia, Keyshawn Johnson.... They've also have had issues with Gruden. at some point, you gotta think there may be some truth to their claims.

So you've got a guy who lost his job after he lost his spleen, a guy who lost his job due to ineffectiveness, and a guy who was paid to stay home before getting shipped out of town because he was simply a sphincter. This is quite the menagerie of Gruden critics you're marching out here.

turn on channel 5 boss... jay glazer just reported that "THE PLAYERS DISTRUST IN GRUDEN" led to his firing. I don't care either way about gruden. all I'm saying is you've got more than one person making unfavorable comments about gruden. at some point you have to take it into consideration. otherwise, you're being ignorant.

Who? Tell me their names. So far it's just been the resident malcontents going on the record about this.

nevemind, dude.I'm starting to think TBell is John Gruden himself...

 

[Pat Patriot]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

The fact is that the cake doesnt taste nearly as good without the icing. The BUCS never would have won the championship with Dungy as the coach. Yes they were Dungy's players but it took Gruden to get them over the hump.

 

[massraider]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

Not sure why people don't get this. LOL, at everyone bashing on Clayton because he has an opinion. You guys post on this board everyday and post your opinion. So let me get this right, Clayton who was in the lockeroom and knows more than we do voiced his opinion about a coach that was present when he was playing and he's now getting bashed for it?!?! Wow

ETA: That includes King as well and when did a man's performance determine his "credibility"?

You aren't really this thick, are you? The talent of these guys isn't in question. Everyone loves a modestly talented guy who works his ### off, and those guys tend to have a lot of credibility because if they talk, you know they're doing so without the luxury of their talent cushioning them from the negative repercussions from their comments if things go bad. What we're looking at is whether these guys are complete clowns, or whether they have a beef personally with Gruden as an explanation for their negative comments. In Clayton's and Keyshawn's case, both criteria apply. In Shaun King's case, he wasn't a clown but he was benched by Gruden and lost his job because he wasn't all that good, and he likely can't come to grips with that so he's blaming Gruden for his career downfall.

Clayton's on-field production, which was far below his potential, is relevant insofar as it explains why Gruden was hard on him, and therefore why Clayton dislikes Gruden. Got it?

The counter to that argument is that maybe Gruden failed to get the most out of Clayton, failed as a coach to get him to reach his potential.Another argument is that some posters round here may have a beef with Clayton, as they may have wasted draft picks on him over the years ( ).

The point he was making is valid. Does Clayton's opinion have no validity because he is disappointing as a player?

If so, we should probably invalidate all football opinions round here, as the majority come from chubby white guys sitting in cubicles.

Wrong. You don't know this. You aren't in that lockerroom or the team meetings or on the sideline. You're simply choosing who to believe here, and I've been pointing out that the folks like you choosing to believe the negative stuff about Gruden are siding with a group of underperforming malcontents who fell out of favor with Gruden and who have reason to want to hurt his reputation.

Wrong. I am not choosing to believe anyone. You are.I was referring to the previous poster, whose point was, "Does a players talent level determine their credibility?" And I think HIS point is valid. "Oh, Michael Clayton is a bad player, so he obviously has a bone to pick with Gruden, and we can dismiss his opinion out of hand."

Frankly, that's pretty stupid.

I have no idea who is "right".

Warren Sapp? if he opened his pie hole, someone would point out, rightly, that he hasn't been there in years.

 

[T Bell]

Shaun King didn't have favorable things to say about Gruden either. I know he isn't the best example of talent but it is clear that Gruden is not a players coach and his ego has gotten way too big.

Really? It is clear? Because two losers say so? WOW

what about Chris Simms, Jeff Garcia, Keyshawn Johnson.... They've also have had issues with Gruden. at some point, you gotta think there may be some truth to their claims.

So you've got a guy who lost his job after he lost his spleen, a guy who lost his job due to ineffectiveness, and a guy who was paid to stay home before getting shipped out of town because he was simply a sphincter. This is quite the menagerie of Gruden critics you're marching out here.

turn on channel 5 boss... jay glazer just reported that "THE PLAYERS DISTRUST IN GRUDEN" led to his firing. I don't care either way about gruden. all I'm saying is you've got more than one person making unfavorable comments about gruden. at some point you have to take it into consideration. otherwise, you're being ignorant.

Who? Tell me their names. So far it's just been the resident malcontents going on the record about this.

nevemind, dude.I'm starting to think TBell is John Gruden himself...

This would be a good time to give up and feign frustration with me if you don't have the goods. Well played.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Yeah, well he wasn't gifted with Hall of Fame QB's and receivers. Just street trash like Clayton.

He had 7 years to showcase his offensive genius. 7 years! It never happened. He gets a free pass from a lot of Bucs fan because of the Superbowl win. That's great, but that was also a long time ago in football years. It just happens that he had one of the best defenses of all-time that year, so you can only give him so much credit."Tony Dungy was baking a cake," Sapp once said. "He mixed the batter, poured it in the pan, set the oven at just the right temperature and then put the cake in. And then they switched cooks, the timer went off and Jon Gruden got a chance to pull out this big, beautiful cake and put icing on it."

Sapp was right. Gruden had his good moments, but I understand why the Glazers wanted to go with someone else.

The fact is that the cake doesnt taste nearly as good without the icing. The BUCS never would have won the championship with Dungy as the coach. Yes they were Dungy's players but it took Gruden to get them over the hump.

I'm no Gruden supporter but this is absolutely true imo. Gruden was the right coach for that particular playoff run, ending with a game against the Raiders in the Super Bowl. The Bucs had an incredible-- incredible-- advantage in that game because of Gruden. Now, everything after that was mediocre. But he brought a Super Bowl to Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay Buccaneers-- Super Bowl champions. Ten years ago that was a punch line. Gotta give Gruden credit for doing what Dungy could not in Tampa.

imo Dungy >>>> Gruden. But facts are facts.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The point he was making is valid.

Derrick Brooks said it was not valid. I know who I'm listening to.

The guy still under contract whose PT is in jeopardy? I respect Brooks as much as anyone, but he's a team guy. Brutal honesty takes a back seat to the company line. Even if it was 100 percent true, do you think Brooks is the kind of guy to get caught up in that? Not his style anyway, and not good for his role as team leader, aging lion and player fighting off competition.

 

[Moe Green]

Opine?

Yes, "opine".

Be pithy, fellas.