Mike McCarthy's answer to 4th & 1 shotgun (1 Viewer)

[mr. furley]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/packers/

Namely, is this Packers team capable of gaining 1 yard on the ground when it’s absolutely necessary?

When you don’t put a back out on the field to even make the defense contemplate the possibility of a running play, the answer right now is obviously no.

On Monday, Packers coach Mike McCarthy didn’t see anything wrong with that.

“If you go empty backfield all day and it's successful, I really don't understand the criticism of doing it at that particular time, especially fourth-and-1,” McCarthy said. “It's amazing to me to be as productive as we were in that formation, and then all of a sudden it's a bad call on fourth-and-1. I don't understand that.”

 

[mr. furley]

Why is the playcalling so lopsided towards the pass?

"To me it's an approach to win the football game. We've played in my opinion some of the better defensive fronts that I've seen in the last couple years. I'm not concerned about it. Like I told you, everybody would like to do certain things a certain way. I would prefer to be a heavy run team, but that's just not the way we're built right now, and that's not the way that gives us the best chance to score a lot of points in my opinion. Now that's week to week. But there will be a time here where we'll pound the football. The biggest problem, and I don't really view it as a problem, but the statistical output of our run game is really the play-caller, because he hasn't committed to it. It's not that I don't believe in our players. I am getting more comfortable with our runners, as far as the different things we're asking them to do. You have to have a comfort when you call particular plays in certain situations, and there have been some growing pains there."

wtf? referring to himself as "he" and saying he thinks it's a problem but not a problem??

 

[mr. furley]

What was up with going empty backfield at the 1?

"Let me ask you this ... and I understand because Jeff (Blumb) and I were just talking about this. If you can go empty backfield all day and it's successful, I really don't understand the criticism of doing it at that particular time, especially fourth-and-1. I'll tell you this, as a play-caller, win or lose, you're always up at night, you think about two or three plays. I do it every week. It's just an exercise I go through. And then actually seeing the play, I'm still very comfortable with the call. I haven't seen Brett yet, and I don't know if he's watched the film. But he'll be disappointed when he sees the play. It's amazing to me to be as productive as we were in that formation, and then all of a sudden it's a bad call on fourth-and-1. I don't understand that, particularly with the defense they were in. We had a very favorable play selection on that play, and I'm comfortable with it."

SERIOUSLY??????????????

what was good about that play call?? 4th and 1, shotgun, empty backfield in crunch time and you throw a pass OVER THE MIDDLE and that's a good play call?????????????????

 

[Sabertooth]

3-0 bud.

 

[Aaronstory]

Um, they won.

 

[mr. furley]

you won't find a bigger Packer fan around here than me but those quotes are absolutely puzzling

not complaining about the win.. but that play and his responses to it are just befuddling at best.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

you won't find a bigger Packer fan around here than me but those quotes are absolutely puzzlingnot complaining about the win.. but that play and his responses to it are just befuddling at best.

it was a terrible play call. it still confuses me. his responses are even more worrisome.

 

[Sabertooth]

What would you expect him to say after a win?

 

[J R]

I didn't know Marty Schottenheimer posted here, and under so many aliases.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Agreed. Horrible call. But I'm glad it worked out for them. And the answer to the "it was working all day" is that they weren't in 4th and 1 all day.

J

 

[Capella]

Jesus Beavis, settle down.

 

[Aaronstory]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

No. I'd call that horrible no matter what happened.Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

No. I'd call that horrible no matter what happened.Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

 

[mr. furley]

Agreed. Horrible call. But I'm glad it worked out for them. And the answer to the "it was working all day" is that they weren't in 4th and 1 all day.J

thank you.especially troubling is that they ran the exact same play against Detroit last year on 4th and 1 late in the game and it cost them the game.

 

[mr. furley]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

work or not it's a horrible call.it's a 2 in 10 shot that he completes a pass there. maybe 1 in 10. if that's a "good call" then maybe we should do some gambling together?

 

[Pipes]

These guys spend countless hours practicing this stuff and studying film on the defense. I'd rather leave it to the hands of the professionals than some jokers (myself included) who watch football all day Sunday and think they are suddenly offensive coordinators.

I certainly don't like the call but I'm not going to argue with the success McCarthy has brought to Green Bay. He had the perfect game plan against the Chargers this week especially since he's handcuffed with a below average running game and he has helped Favre rejuvenate his career. The Packers needed someone with a fire in his belly who wasn't afraid of the franchise (Favre) unlike Sugarbear Sherman. I'm willing to give McCarthy a pass on this one.

 

[Torque666]

I always find it amusing reading posts from dudes sporting beer bellies and regular joe jobs, calling out successfull NFL coaches. Thanks for the laughs fellas.

 

[mr. furley]

NFL coaches ALWAYS make the right call because they're NFL coaches!

he emptied the backfield. took away any threat of play-action. he had 5 blockers against an aggressive Chargers defense.

crunch time, they absolutely need to score a TD. why eliminate 1/2 the offensive possibilities, pre-snap, by removing the RB from the picture? now the D can tee off on the rush and absolutely blanket the receivers.

not only does he have 10 yds of field to work with.. but he has double coverage on all his receivers and he has about 2 seconds to get a pass off. best case scenario is obviously a TD but the odds of that as opposed to an INT or incompletion are not good *paging Maurile*

but as we all saw it worked marvelously as Favre threaded a pass to... oh wait.

that play had no chance from the start. none. in that situation i want all my options on the table. not 1/2 of them. and i sure as hell don't want them to go shotgun, empty backfield, and throw a pass OVER THE MIDDLE OF THE DEFENSE to a TE with brick hands.

if the rest of you think that McCarthy can't be questioned and that's a great play call.. more power to you.

 

[twitch]

bottom line is theyre unnbeaten and rolling against playoff caliber teams. Dont beat yourself up over it. the time to be puzzled is when coaches do things that COST your team a win. When my team wins, Im feeling good and moving on. Trust the guys that are 3-0. Theyll figure it out.

 

[Pipes]

NFL coaches ALWAYS make the right call because they're NFL coaches! he emptied the backfield. took away any threat of play-action. he had 5 blockers against an aggressive Chargers defense. crunch time, they absolutely need to score a TD. why eliminate 1/2 the offensive possibilities, pre-snap, by removing the RB from the picture? now the D can tee off on the rush and absolutely blanket the receivers.not only does he have 10 yds of field to work with.. but he has double coverage on all his receivers and he has about 2 seconds to get a pass off. best case scenario is obviously a TD but the odds of that as opposed to an INT or incompletion are not good *paging Maurile*but as we all saw it worked marvelously as Favre threaded a pass to... oh wait.that play had no chance from the start. none. in that situation i want all my options on the table. not 1/2 of them. and i sure as hell don't want them to go shotgun, empty backfield, and throw a pass OVER THE MIDDLE OF THE DEFENSE to a TE with brick hands. if the rest of you think that McCarthy can't be questioned and that's a great play call.. more power to you.

Sure as fans we can question it but why dwell on it? The Packers are playing alot better than expected and McCarthy's a big reason for that. Let's not turn into a bunch of whiners like Bears' fans...we're better than that.

 

[Sabertooth]

NFL coaches ALWAYS make the right call because they're NFL coaches! he emptied the backfield. took away any threat of play-action. he had 5 blockers against an aggressive Chargers defense. crunch time, they absolutely need to score a TD. why eliminate 1/2 the offensive possibilities, pre-snap, by removing the RB from the picture? now the D can tee off on the rush and absolutely blanket the receivers.not only does he have 10 yds of field to work with.. but he has double coverage on all his receivers and he has about 2 seconds to get a pass off. best case scenario is obviously a TD but the odds of that as opposed to an INT or incompletion are not good *paging Maurile*but as we all saw it worked marvelously as Favre threaded a pass to... oh wait.that play had no chance from the start. none. in that situation i want all my options on the table. not 1/2 of them. and i sure as hell don't want them to go shotgun, empty backfield, and throw a pass OVER THE MIDDLE OF THE DEFENSE to a TE with brick hands. if the rest of you think that McCarthy can't be questioned and that's a great play call.. more power to you.

Sure as fans we can question it but why dwell on it? The Packers are playing alot better than expected and McCarthy's a big reason for that. Let's not turn into a bunch of whiners like Bears' fans...we're better than that.

 

[mr. furley]

*sigh*

i'm as optimistic and happy a Packer fan as you're going to see. i'm not letting that call sour the season... i posted this thread because i know there were a LOT of people scratching their heads after that play. and i know a lotta people wanted to hear the explanation/justification.

let's not pretend that if the Packers lose that game there aren't 25 people in the SP ranting and raving about how McCarthy is a horrible coach, how TT should be fired, how Favre has lost his mind, etc. half of you probably threw your shoes at the TV and some of you probably screamed at your wife/kid/dog when it happened.

i'm not saying the Packers suck or they shouldn't be 3-0 or that they're over-rated. just posted a thread re: a situation of interest from the Packer game and offered my opinion. it doesn't jibe with the average waffling Packer fan's thoughts in the wake of 3-0.. so be it.

 

[twitch]

by the way, how would you like to be a Redskins fan right about now? Did you see their crunchtime goal line approach? From a veteran HOF coach? Talk to one of those fans about goal line woes.

 

[mr. furley]

by the way, how would you like to be a Redskins fan right about now? Did you see their crunchtime goal line approach? From a veteran HOF coach? Talk to one of those fans about goal line woes.

i'm indifferent about the Redskins.. but i was yelling at the TV when i saw that disaster unfold. horrible. just horrible.

 

[CalBear]

Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

What do you think are the odds of getting one yard on fourth down in that situation?

 

[Aaronstory]

Interesting that no one has mentioned this McCarthy quote from his press conference:

And then actually seeing the play, I'm still very comfortable with the call. I haven't seen Brett yet, and I don't know if he's watched the film. But he'll be disappointed when he sees the play.

It will be interesting to see the NFL Replay of the game tonight on NFL Network.

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

It would seem from the quote above that Brett had a much better option on the play. If someone was indeed open, and Brett just missed it, that's bad execution. Not a bad play call.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

No. I'd call that horrible no matter what happened.Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

This is the correct answer.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

Because 4th and goal from the 1 is not like every other play you run in a game.Until you understand that, it's useless.

 

[twitch]

Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

What do you think are the odds of getting one yard on fourth down in that situation?

yes. hideous decision that didnt need to be made considering the risk/reward. cant believe he went for that with the all or nothing approach, and obviously it sort of set the tone early. Green Bay really has the look of a team going places this year, just like New Orleans did last year. Seven straight wins at this point. So much changes in the NFL from year to year. Green Bay's winning that division this year. its gonna be a special year. Enjoy the ride.

 

[CalBear]

Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

What do you think are the odds of getting one yard on fourth down in that situation?

yes. hideous decision that didnt need to be made considering the risk/reward. cant believe he went for that with the all or nothing approach, and obviously it sort of set the tone early.

Why are you quoting me on this? Going for it on fourth down at midfield is the correct decision if you have a greater than 50% chance of getting the first down. It's certainly not a "hideous" decision.

 

[Aaronstory]

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

Because 4th and goal from the 1 is not like every other play you run in a game.Until you understand that, it's useless.

And I'll wait until you understand the difference between play calling and execution.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

Because 4th and goal from the 1 is not like every other play you run in a game.Until you understand that, it's useless.

And I'll wait until you understand the difference between play calling and execution.

Yes, I do.I understand that to put yourself in the highest percentage chance to execute, you need to call the proper play. The wrong play can work a certain percentage of the time. Problem is, the correct play works more often, and hey, isn't that what we pay coaches for--to improve the team's chances to win?Oh, what's that? The play didn't work?Cool.

 

[B-Deep]

Does anyone think the whole "getting the record" thing played into this?

I would hope it did not.

 

[mr. furley]

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

Because 4th and goal from the 1 is not like every other play you run in a game.Until you understand that, it's useless.

And I'll wait until you understand the difference between play calling and execution.

tough to execute a play that has such little chance at success. again, he took 50% of the playbook away pre-snap. nobody went in motion. i just don't know how no RB and no deception on that play is the correct call. if they were at the 30 on 4th and 1. great. 5 wide. let's make a play. but at the goal line there is only so much room to move and the Chargers are going to clog those passing lanes. Favre isn't going to scramble for it anymore...

 

[Aaronstory]

Coaches can only do so much. Sure, he could have tried to run it in. But who do you trust with the game on the line? One of three rookie running backs (one of whom EVERYONE on this board has already declared a bust)? Or do you put it in the hands of your hall of fame quarterback? So what if there was no threat of a run? They hadn't run it all day.

Because 4th and goal from the 1 is not like every other play you run in a game.Until you understand that, it's useless.

And I'll wait until you understand the difference between play calling and execution.

Yes, I do.I understand that to put yourself in the highest percentage chance to execute, you need to call the proper play. The wrong play can work a certain percentage of the time. Problem is, the correct play works more often, and hey, isn't that what we pay coaches for--to improve the team's chances to win?Oh, what's that? The play didn't work?Cool.

If the play is well designed, and there's an open player in the end zone, but the quarterback misses the read, is that bad play calling, or bad execution?I'll wait.Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm right.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm right.

No, you're not.You have to ask yourself, when 6-7 people are trying to tell you the same thing in 5 different ways, you might want to step down and take a look at the other side of the argument. If you're here to "win" discussions...well, I just feel bad for you.

 

[Aaronstory]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm right.

No, you're not.You have to ask yourself, when 6-7 people are trying to tell you the same thing in 5 different ways, you might want to step down and take a look at the other side of the argument. If you're here to "win" discussions...well, I just feel bad for you.

We'll agree to disagree.And I didn't start the childishness, Mr. "Oh what's that? The play didn't work? Cool"

 

[mr. furley]

Does anyone think the whole "getting the record" thing played into this?I would hope it did not.

no chance at all.

 

[Aaronstory]

Does anyone think the whole "getting the record" thing played into this?I would hope it did not.

no chance at all.

Agreed. I don't think so at all.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm right.

No, you're not.You have to ask yourself, when 6-7 people are trying to tell you the same thing in 5 different ways, you might want to step down and take a look at the other side of the argument. If you're here to "win" discussions...well, I just feel bad for you.

We'll agree to disagree.And I didn't start the childishness, Mr. "Oh what's that? The play didn't work? Cool"

Humor<>childishness.

 

[mr. furley]

If the play is well designed, and there's an open player in the end zone, but the quarterback misses the read, is that bad play calling, or bad execution?

i trust Favre to make the proper read in any/every situation waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than i trust McCarthy to make the right snap decision in that situation. and i like McCarthy.

 

[BLOX]

Agreed. Horrible call. But I'm glad it worked out for them. And the answer to the "it was working all day" is that they weren't in 4th and 1 all day.J

thank you.especially troubling is that they ran the exact same play against Detroit last year on 4th and 1 late in the game and it cost them the game.

The Packers beat Detroit 2x last year. Maybe a different team you're thinking about? The St. Louis game?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

No. I'd call that horrible no matter what happened.Just like Payton going for it on MNF in the first quarter on 4th down was terrible whether it worked or not.J

I am with Joe on this. Too many people say oh they won so it doesn't matter, or it worked...NO, NO, NO, a bad call will be a bad call more times than not and if you keep making bad calls, they will work out less often and those wins will turn to losses. Sean Payton's call in the 1st Q of the MNF game was TERRIBLE; but that was only offset by the even worse decision to go for it in the first place.

 

[sho nuff]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

work or not it's a horrible call.it's a 2 in 10 shot that he completes a pass there. maybe 1 in 10. if that's a "good call" then maybe we should do some gambling together?

2 in 10? 1 in 10?Just making up statistics now?I agree I would have liked to see a run. But you have to admit when its all on the line, Id rather have the ball in Favre's hand then Brandon Jackson's...and at this point do you trust that Oline to open a hole?

 

[sho nuff]

Does anyone think the whole "getting the record" thing played into this?

I would hope it did not.

Head coach Mike McCarthy surprised many by leaving Favre to fend for himself out of the shotgun on fourth-and-goal with the ball inside the Chargers' 1. A hurried pass to Bubba Franks over the middle was deflected and fell incomplete.

"I was trusting my call sheet," McCarthy said. "I learned this a long time ago, and I think there's a lot of truth to it: When you're in times of crisis ... think of players, not of plays. And, I put the ball in Brett Favre's hand, and I'm very comfortable doing it."

The gutsy call seemingly was telling of where the coaches' confidence level is with the dormant run game. Of the team's 60 offensive plays, only 13 were on the ground.

That from McCarthy...and this from Favre about Jackson's TD.

The opportunity was six feet in front of him to take sole ownership of the league record for touchdown passes.

Brett Favre, though, beseeched head coach Mike McCarthy to play it safe and run the football after the Packers took over at the San Diego 2 following an interception and long return by linebacker Nick Barnett late in the game Sunday.

At the time, with 1:12 to play and the Packers ahead 24-21, Favre had thrown for three touchdowns to pull even with Dan Marino at 420.

"On that last little series, I said we've got to run the ball," Favre said. "Believe me, I think had we run a pass, it probably would have been a touchdown because everybody in the building assumed we were going to run it.

"But, it's not worth it. It's not worth taking that chance, the ball being picked, tipped or getting sacked, or I trip and fall. And, I can't believe I'm saying that."

Does that sound like a coach or player who is concerned about a record other than the team being 3-0?http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/home.htm

 

[Cookiemonster]

Haven't seen the game but several posts here referencing the inability to run the ball, and so many on these boards bashing the RBs, and so many more flocking to get Winn off waivers last week, and we're questioning why it was Favre throwing the ball on 4th and 1 w/ all passing options available? Vs. the Chargers' D no less!!! Stud front 7 and a questionable secondary. It makes sense to me.

 

[mr. furley]

Agreed. Horrible call. But I'm glad it worked out for them. And the answer to the "it was working all day" is that they weren't in 4th and 1 all day.J

thank you.especially troubling is that they ran the exact same play against Detroit last year on 4th and 1 late in the game and it cost them the game.

The Packers beat Detroit 2x last year. Maybe a different team you're thinking about? The St. Louis game?

yeah.. i dunno. i actually checked google this morning cause i was thinking that sounded wrong.

 

[mr. furley]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

work or not it's a horrible call.it's a 2 in 10 shot that he completes a pass there. maybe 1 in 10. if that's a "good call" then maybe we should do some gambling together?

2 in 10? 1 in 10?Just making up statistics now?

absolutely.i have no idea what the exact # is. that's why i paged Maurile. i'm sure somewhere in the recesses of his brain he has done the math on that exact scenario. or he knows of a website that compiles those statistics.in fact... now i'm interested to know if such a site exists and if the percentages have been calculated.

I agree I would have liked to see a run. But you have to admit when its all on the line, Id rather have the ball in Favre's hand then Brandon Jackson's...and at this point do you trust that Oline to open a hole?

totally rather have Favre making that decision than handing it off to Jackson for a plunge in to the line. that doesn't automatically mean 4 or 5-wide, empty backfield, shotgun.at least leave him the option to throw in the flat or fake the handoff. maybe throw a wacky formation at em, force the timeout. something. i dunno.

 

[Aaronstory]

Horrible call.

Only becuase it didn't work.If it works, it's genius.Criticizing playcalling is fruitless.

work or not it's a horrible call.it's a 2 in 10 shot that he completes a pass there. maybe 1 in 10. if that's a "good call" then maybe we should do some gambling together?

2 in 10? 1 in 10?Just making up statistics now?

absolutely.i have no idea what the exact # is. that's why i paged Maurile. i'm sure somewhere in the recesses of his brain he has done the math on that exact scenario. or he knows of a website that compiles those statistics.in fact... now i'm interested to know if such a site exists and if the percentages have been calculated. :(

I agree I would have liked to see a run. But you have to admit when its all on the line, Id rather have the ball in Favre's hand then Brandon Jackson's...and at this point do you trust that Oline to open a hole?

maybe throw a wacky formation at em

Like say, oh, I don't know, going empty set shotgun at the goal line?