Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Mike Wallace (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter EBF
- Start date
Invictus~Bronte
Footballguy
oukurt
Footballguy
I am very high on Mike Wallace going forward. With Holmes moving on to the Jets I have developed a huge man crush on Wallace. Here is why...I am always looking for that next Miles Austin situation. Meaning I like looking for offenses that lose their WR1 and have a talented young WR waiting in the wings that is going to get his shot to be "the man". Much like Miles Austin did with the departure of TO in Dallas. Also important in this situation is having a great mentor like Hines Ward. I think Wallace can emerge based on some glimpses of greatness last season. Wallace is not a polished route-runner, but can stretch defenses deep as an outside receiver. Wallace also showed that he was not only a deep threat, but also one that could hang onto the tough catches. He is also very quick and used that quickness to gain separation on shorter routes on many occasions last year.
I am sick that I didn't get him in my start up dynasty draft this year.
I am sick that I didn't get him in my start up dynasty draft this year.
GSWarriors
Footballguy
wow, with the first 2 responses, i'm gonna go sell high on Mike Wallace no doubt.
oukurt
Footballguy
Not sure why you would do that in a dynasty league. Why not see if can breakout? It is a great situation for him.
Invictus~Bronte
Footballguy
It also speaks volumes that the Steelers let go of Holmes so cheaply and did not draft a high profile WR. They may next year but as of now they appear very confident in his ascent.
EBF
Footballguy
Interesting results so far. Personally, I probably lean more towards a Berrian career trajectory. Great speed. Good hands. Maybe a bit too one-dimensional and limited as a route runner to be more than a second option. I don't think he's as good as Holmes, but his opportunity is appealing. If Ashley Lelie can put up 1000 yards in Denver then Wallace has a chance this year.
Either way, I feel like Wallace is much more highly-regarded on these boards than in general. I've been trying to sell him in the one league where I own him (12 team PPR dynasty). I offered him for a 2011 1st and was rejected by several different owners.
Just tonight I offered him and the 2.04 for the 1.09 and was rejected. That was pretty surprising, as I felt I might have been overpaying.
Either way, I feel like Wallace is much more highly-regarded on these boards than in general. I've been trying to sell him in the one league where I own him (12 team PPR dynasty). I offered him for a 2011 1st and was rejected by several different owners.
Just tonight I offered him and the 2.04 for the 1.09 and was rejected. That was pretty surprising, as I felt I might have been overpaying.
Last edited by a moderator:
EBF
Footballguy
Fair enough, but Berrian never had the luxury of playing in a great offense with a Pro Bowl QB and two 1000+ yard receivers to draw coverage away. Once he got a real opportunity, he put up numbers that look similar to what Wallace did last year.
Yes. Once Berrian got an opportunity, he put up numbers as a 4-5 year vet that were comparable to the numbers that Wallace put up as a rookie.I wish there were some option between multiple-time first team AP All Pro and mediocre 1-trick pony, because that's what I'd vote. You know, a Keenan McCardell / Ed McCaffrey / Muhsin Muhammad type option. Obviously he's not a stylistic match, but I think he could easily wind up with a comparable career. 8-10 seasons in the pros, 3-5 thousand yard seasons, maybe a pro bowl berth or two if things break the right way.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I voted Berrian, but I think the best comp out there is Donte Stallworth. Wallace will look great in the number two/three role, tease a bit as a #1 and maybe even put up a good season. But I don't think he has the ability to be a consistent leading guy. "Go deep against the other team's #2 or #3 corner" only works for so long, and I don't think he'll be able to get open against #1s running intermediate routes.
Last edited by a moderator:
EBF
Footballguy
I see what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree with the general idea, but you're off by a couple years.Wallace as a rookie: 39 catches, 756 yards
Berrian as a third year pro: 51 catches, 775 yards
Berrian took longer to achieve these kind of numbers, but he also did it on a much weaker offense with terrible QBs. To me this compensates a little bit for the delay. I'm not convinced that their careers wouldn't unfold in reverse fashion if you were to swap their situations, as Wallace was positioned to produce immediately whereas Berrian was hidden in a miserable passing attack.
Anyhow, I'm not really interested in trying to prove that Wallace = Berrian. Just offering my opinion that Wallace is probably a lot closer to a Berrian type of player than he is to an Ochocinco.
I intentionally made the poll choices extreme because I wanted to force people to provide a clear and decisive opinion about Wallace's prospects. Is he elite, merely average, or destined to wash out of the league without making a major impact?
EBF
Footballguy
I agree with this take.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I think your first concern is legit but I don't think OC Bruce Arians is going to turn into Ground Chuck. I could see an emphasis on the run early (as long as it is working) but as soon as Ben returns Arians is going to open up the offense, you can count on it.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Jason Wood
Zoo York
When I did my first set of detailed projections this year, and rolled them up into my rankings, I thought I was really high on Wallace. I had him WR33. But looking at the staff rankings, he's consensus WR32. So it seems like my expectations are more in line with the baseline than overly optimistic. I could certainly see him handily outperform WR33 this year, but admittedly the QB situation, a re-commitment to the run (at least in theory), and Ward combined with the fact I don't think Wallace is as well rounded a receiver as Holmes was, and I'm not ready to ramp him up my rankings just yet.
oukurt
Footballguy
Oh cmon is it that confusing? Ok Co #1 WR. Holmes outperformed the aging Ward over the 2nd half of the season. So if you considered Ward the #1 then fine. I think most get my point.
All this thread is missing is a Nate Washington reference, and then I will feel like I'm right at home among the Wallace haters. I'm kinda sick of repeating the same things so I'm just gonna make my main points:
1. Wallace did NOT only run deep routes - he ran slants, comebacks, crosses and everything else you can think of.
2. Wallace did NOT only play out of the slot against nickel corners - he lined up at every receiver position, but primarily flanker and slot.
3. Wallace IS a good route runner, and even better he is able to consistently get open and improvise when his QB is scrambling which is pretty much a godsend for Big Ben.
I agree with SSOG that the poll options are missing the "Super solid #2/sometimes #1 season" guy. I think Wallace has more potential than he is usually given credit for, and those who call him a "one trick pony" or "deep threat guy" haven't actually watched him play and don't know what they are talking about.
1. Wallace did NOT only run deep routes - he ran slants, comebacks, crosses and everything else you can think of.
2. Wallace did NOT only play out of the slot against nickel corners - he lined up at every receiver position, but primarily flanker and slot.
3. Wallace IS a good route runner, and even better he is able to consistently get open and improvise when his QB is scrambling which is pretty much a godsend for Big Ben.
I agree with SSOG that the poll options are missing the "Super solid #2/sometimes #1 season" guy. I think Wallace has more potential than he is usually given credit for, and those who call him a "one trick pony" or "deep threat guy" haven't actually watched him play and don't know what they are talking about.
identikit
Footballguy
100% this.The poll was set up with a bias in mind.Every one of your points are accurate IMO.
probably a little higher on him then I should be, but that is based more on watching him play than any type of stats or comparisons...dude has a ton of talent as mentioned above, and one of the biggest things for me is that he goes and gets the ball....and I think Ben loves him and has confidence in him for that reason....Ben looks to him when the pocket breaks down......with that said, I see Wallace's numbers taking a hit for the first 5 weeks, suspension and bye week.....I still think he will be productive for many of these same reasons with Dixon or Leftwich or whoever, but he may just not get off to the start that people will be expecting with where you will have to draft him......
also, I am not sold on Mendy being a bell cow, so I think Pitt will still throw a ton this year.......Ben may be a #####, but he is still there best offensive player...
also, I am not sold on Mendy being a bell cow, so I think Pitt will still throw a ton this year.......Ben may be a #####, but he is still there best offensive player...
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Like Wallace a ton, I have mentioned the Chad Johnson comparison on multiple occasions. I own him in both of my leagues and he is not for sale. I don't sell players once they get a bump in value. Obviously if someone offers me more than I value him then I listen. I bet a lot of people "Unloaded" Andre Johnson once he started to get healthy and put up some production and they thought they were "Selling high", same goes for Sidney Rice and a ton of others. LOL. As Herm Edwards says You play to win the game... don't get too cutesy and sell off every good player you ever get or you'll always be rebuilding.
Invictus~Bronte
Footballguy
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
If Mike Wallace had the same exact season he did and showed the talent/speed/hands/route running, etc; but was drafted in Round 1 of the NFL draft this discussion would be much different, Brandon Marshall and Ocho weren't 1st round picks,I'm sure the list is long of great WRs who weren't 1st rounders.
Last edited by a moderator:
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
I'm glad that I see I am not alone, there are quite a few of us it seems that think Wallace is the real deal.Caveman_Nick
Footballguy
I realize that this thread is about the talent level of the player specifically, but IMO people should temper their expectations. This guy is going to have Leftwich or Batch slinging him the ball for at least 4 games if not 6. Talent aside, I think that this will severely impact the development of this player.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right now? Somewhere between Berrian and Chad Johnson, he's already displaying the skills of Berrian and he's just one year deep. He has the potential to be a Chad Johnson-type, but expecting it would not be wise. He has a lot of work to do on refining his craft before he is mentioned in the same sentence as Johnson.
I'm in the middle of a startup dyno and he went at pick 81 with all the rookies sans Dez, Britt, Santana Moss, Garcon, etc. still on the board. I think that's too early, but I wouldn't call it a reach. If you want him that's probably when you have to take him. Sitting at pick 6 in a rookie draft if I can parlay Wallace and that pick to get into the top 3 I will. I'm also strongly considering moving him for a future 1st in another dyno.
I'm in the middle of a startup dyno and he went at pick 81 with all the rookies sans Dez, Britt, Santana Moss, Garcon, etc. still on the board. I think that's too early, but I wouldn't call it a reach. If you want him that's probably when you have to take him. Sitting at pick 6 in a rookie draft if I can parlay Wallace and that pick to get into the top 3 I will. I'm also strongly considering moving him for a future 1st in another dyno.
he was borderline startable at times last year... I don't think his development will be impacted as I think he has already emerged/developed....Holmes leaving raises his value, Ben being out lowers it slightly for a few weeks only....Hines Ward may be listed as the #1 but thats only on paper....come game day Wallace will be the man.....Ward will still gather his catches, but Wallace is poised to be the #1 on this team for awhile with a solid dooshbag QB throwing to him....
you are justifying your reason for wanting to sell high.....this can be a good strategy as long as it is not the only one...and there is also something to be said for keeping good players and letting them help you win....you obviously drafted him for a reason and now he is about ready to reap the rewards for you....if you keep chasing the bigger better deal, you will always be chasing....your comments about refining his craft seem to just be something you are throwing out there as you try to get a Steeler off your roster.....if I'm at 1.03 and you offer me Wallace and the 1.06, I'm all over it and I thinkk you are seriously underestimating his talent/situation and selling just for selling.....this guy has already started showing his skills at the NFL level....the guy you get moving up 3 spots may bust........
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think Dez and Best are special talents, making that sort of trade is more about how high I am on Best and Dez and less on how I feel re Wallace. I also think next year's draft class is going to be a great one, I think I can get two great players in next year's draft.Any time I can deal good players (i.e. Wallace) for great players I'm doing it.
Steel Dillo
Footballguy
I'm having a hard time thinking of a comparable WR to Wallace. He's blazing fast and has decent hands, but looks like he has a very odd running form. Almost like he's constantly off balance.
I actually think Wallace's numbers won't suffer with Ben out if Leftwich wins the job. Leftwich throws a better deep ball than Ben. Ben underthrows the deep routes quite a bit because he doesn't throw a tight spiral when he reaches back & chuks it. Leftwich, on the other hand, has a very good deep ball IMO.
I actually think Wallace's numbers won't suffer with Ben out if Leftwich wins the job. Leftwich throws a better deep ball than Ben. Ben underthrows the deep routes quite a bit because he doesn't throw a tight spiral when he reaches back & chuks it. Leftwich, on the other hand, has a very good deep ball IMO.
EBF
Footballguy
If you're high on Wallace and you think he's going to be a perennial contributor then I have no problem with this attitude, but I've been playing this hobby long enough to have heard "he's not for sale" about guys like Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, Rod Gardner, Koren Robinson, and Ashley Lelie. It can be pretty difficult to predict which young prospects are going to take the next step forward and maintain high trade value. Could Wallace be one of those guys? Sure. I just don't know that it's a foregone conclusion yet. If he ends up being Chad Johnson or Greg Jennings, you'll be ecstatic that you didn't move him now. If he ends up being Ashley Lelie or Bernard Berrian, you'll be glad you moved him when some people still thought he was a frontline player.
Eddie Royal is very talented. Josh McDaniels and sucky Orton conspired to ignore him all year, and I fully expect him to have no value as long as Orton McSuckster is starting.P.S. Orton sucks.
identikit
Footballguy
You're likely correct on Royal.Just thought that he should be in the conversation using the logic being used on why Wallace could be a flash-in-the-pan.
Last edited by a moderator:
Moonlight
Footballguy
You pay your money and you take your chances.
The positives:
high ypc in college
high ypc for his first year as a pro
Reported that he didn't have much Wr coaching in college and responded very well to coaching he received at Senior Bowl making marked improvements in route running in a short time
In Steelers training camp it was reported that the Steeler CBs couldn't cover him.
With Holmes leaving -Steelers did not add anyone to threaten him starting except for a similar type receiver in Sanders in the 3rd round.
Has a good top 10 QB throwing to him when Ben R. comes back. Ward is another year older.
How he will respond to double teams or going against better CBs is unknown but the upside is there and you want good value.
The positives:
high ypc in college
high ypc for his first year as a pro
Reported that he didn't have much Wr coaching in college and responded very well to coaching he received at Senior Bowl making marked improvements in route running in a short time
In Steelers training camp it was reported that the Steeler CBs couldn't cover him.
With Holmes leaving -Steelers did not add anyone to threaten him starting except for a similar type receiver in Sanders in the 3rd round.
Has a good top 10 QB throwing to him when Ben R. comes back. Ward is another year older.
How he will respond to double teams or going against better CBs is unknown but the upside is there and you want good value.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
I do think he'll be a perennial contributor. Even having said that what i mean by he's not for sale really means that I am high on him and doubt anybody will offer something to my liking, of course I'd deal him but I doubt someone pays my price, people in my leagues tend to lowball. I'm not one to lock into WRs and predict major value, I did draft Lelie and Gardner when they came out and traded both of them at high points, my confidence in them was never very high. The only guy on that list I thought would boom was Braylon but never owned him in a dynasty.EBF said:
He looked good to me. Not elite or average. I do think he showed the potential to be very good.One thing that isn't really mentioned much is the fact that Pitt didn't do much to upgrade at WR. I'm no scout, so I usually give a lot of weight to what coaches and personnel departments show me with their actions. Especially when it is a staff as good as Pitt at gauging its needs. Plus, I really like this quote from someone that watched every single snap(obviously a biased perspective, but still):
"I've not had a rookie wide receiver play that well in 12 years," Arians said. "He was consistent; not perfect, but consistent. He didn't hit the wall. He played well all the way through the end. It was a great start for him. He should come into this year with a ton of confidence."
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Mancrush in full effect today.
zilladog
Footballguy
Mike Wallace caught 37 balls last season. This Youtube highlight reel shows 23 of them, plus two carries (wr end-arounds). So its a pretty good sample size compared to most other youtube highlight videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqal3HRugLM...;feature=search
Im no scout but here's what I observed. This dude has REAL talent. The knock on him that he only runs one route ('go' route down the sidelines), while it may have been his bread and butter last year, just isn't entirely accurate. He was often able to exploit zone defenses in the second level and fit a nice spot to 'sit' between the LB's and Safeties for some nice chunks of yards. The only real flaw that I can see is that while he DID make some spectacular sideline grabs (we all remember the GB game), he looks like he's too much of a basket catcher. He uses his body to reel in the ball too much imo. It would be interesting to know if anyone here has info as to whether or not that kind of thing can be unlearned or is he stuck with being a 'bady catcher'.
To conclude, I'm a true believer. And I'm glad I nabbed him in my dynasty league.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqal3HRugLM...;feature=search
Im no scout but here's what I observed. This dude has REAL talent. The knock on him that he only runs one route ('go' route down the sidelines), while it may have been his bread and butter last year, just isn't entirely accurate. He was often able to exploit zone defenses in the second level and fit a nice spot to 'sit' between the LB's and Safeties for some nice chunks of yards. The only real flaw that I can see is that while he DID make some spectacular sideline grabs (we all remember the GB game), he looks like he's too much of a basket catcher. He uses his body to reel in the ball too much imo. It would be interesting to know if anyone here has info as to whether or not that kind of thing can be unlearned or is he stuck with being a 'bady catcher'.
To conclude, I'm a true believer. And I'm glad I nabbed him in my dynasty league.
FUBAR
Footballguy
When I saw Wallace, I had visions of Joey Galloway. On first glance that sounds like I'm dismissing his relevance, but consider Galloway is a 10,000+ yard receiver, ranks #26 in yardage, #23 in TDs, and #31 in receptions, all time. I don't know if Wallace will have a 15 year career (who does?) but the potential to be good for a long time is there.