my problem w/Green and Brown are twofold...-pending QB change w/each...how does that affect their value-injuries...I owned Brown this year, and never got a good read on when to play him and when not to for most of the season---supposed to start, never finished---then he wasn't supposed to play, and he lit it up w/150-2TD'sGreen has been hobbled down the strech a couple timesthis pick was more about the KC back of the future than it was about liking LJ...the guy posted 150 FF points in a little over a month...the KC starters racked up close to 400 this seasonI wanted the KC back more than the other 2, and truely didn't expect SJackson there for my 2nd round pick--which he wasn't---Bell was my least favorite of the three, but I would have been OK w/himeven if Johnson doesn't start from game 1 this year, I don't expect the same 3 back 'rotation' we saw the second half of the seasonI don't think anyone expects Holmes to make it a full season, so even if the Padre gets it going early, I'd rather have Johnson available down the strech, come FF playoff time...that's if Holmes makes it out of training camp, as he has had some work the last few years and isn't the biggest back out thereI did seriously consider DDavis w/the 1.12(and had him loaded as my predraft pick at first) and one of the young guys w/the 2.3....I have no arguement for those who might have suggested this approach, other than I really wanted to throw the dice on the KC run game and would have been pissed had Johnson not made it to the 2.3---I could have lived w/either Moss or TO at 2.3, and felt pretty good about one of them being there
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Misfits 'n Outlaws Xtreme FFL-IV Draft (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ravnzfan
- Start date
nice of you to steer 'the Psychological one' to the Dating game Forum, BuckPsyco Kev is the proud owner of rookie selection 1.1 in our original Misfits and Outlaws Xtreme FFL....his comment was, I'm sure, a bit tongue-in-cheekI think Kevin might feel I'm 'over-extending',as I own a team in each of the Misfit leagueshe'll tell you about owning Ahman....'ah, my ankle hurts'...Green
which is why I said 
to Mr Green w/my first round pick
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Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Not sure if this format (Jan draft) has a supplemental draft before which "declared" college players are ineligible, but curious as to (assuming college players are eligible) what round the Bensons, Williams, Brown, etc start to fly off of the board in these type of Shark dynasty leagues?
Well I did something totally different than in MOX2 where I went WR/WR in a BPA style draft. So now in MOX4 I am the owner with 4 RB's already in Alexander, LSuggs, DFoster, and PHolmes. Originally I was going to go with 4 vet RB's but then I decided the vets available had enough risk that I may as well take younger players with a chance at more upside.I also almost went Vick once Barber was gone at 2.12 and of course FTaylor but in the end went for upside at RB which I felt would protect me to gamble on a Priest. I also didn't take the vet in the 2nd knowing that one of Priest, Owens, Vick, or Taylor should reach my wrap-around picks in the 3rd to pair with a younger RB.I still have rookie 1.08 to play with but no pick until 4.14 and no pick in the 5th which will hurt although I still have 2 10ths to play with too.
Tick
Footballguy
Different dynasty leagues value positions quite differently, but within positions you can get a good idea of how things will go from another draft. The in-position rankings in this league so far:WR: Moss, Randy MIN WROwens, Terrell PHI WRJohnson, Chad CIN WRHolt, Torry STL WRJohnson, Andre HOU WRFitzgerald, Larry ARI WRHarrison, Marvin IND WRHorn, Joe NOS WRWalker, Javon GBP WRClayton, Michael TBB WRWilliams, Roy DET WRWayne, Reggie IND WREvans, Lee BUF WRQB: Manning, Peyton IND QBCulpepper, Daunte MIN QBMcNabb, Donovan PHI QBVick, Michael ATL QBBulger, Marc STL QBRB:Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RBMcGahee, Willis BUF RBJones, Julius DAL RBJones, Kevin DET RBAlexander, Shaun SEA RBPortis, Clinton WAS RBJames, Edgerrin IND RBMcAllister, Deuce NOS RBLewis, Jamal BAL RBJohnson, Larry KCC RBDavis, Domanick HOU RBGreen, Ahman GBP RBJackson, Steven STL RBJohnson, Rudi CIN RBBell, Tatum DEN RBBrown, Chris TEN RBJones, Thomas CHI RBWestbrook, Brian PHI RBDillon, Corey NEP RBBarber, Tiki NYG RBMartin, Curtis NYJ RBSuggs, Lee CLE RBFoster, De'shaun CAR RBHolmes, Priest KCC RBBarlow, Kevan SFO RBTaylor, Fred JAC RBHenry, Travis BUF RBBennett, Michael MIN RBDunn, Warrick ATL RBSmith, Onterrio MIN RBDuckett, T.J. ATL RBJordan, Lamont NYJ RBNo other positions have had anyone drafted yet (through pick 50).
EBF
Footballguy
I went with Anquan Boldin at 4.09 and Hines Ward at 5.06. I thought the value was at WR and I wanted to grab a few proven performers before they were all gone. I anticipate a big dropoff in WR talent from the fifth round to my next pick. My team so far:QB - McNabbRB - HenryRB - K. JonesWR - BoldinWR - Ward
JHawk
Footballguy
That trade up to get Manning is going to come back to haunt me. By the time I drafted at 2.08, the best RB left -- IMO -- was Dillon. Then not drafting again till 4.08 left nothing at RB. Here is my team through pick 5.07:QB -- ManningRB -- DillonWR - EvansWR - ChambersWR - Burress
fatness
Footballguy
Being so short at RB and having no rookie 1st round pick, choosing WR's in your next 3 picks after Dillon leaves you really unprotected at RB. Of course it's only Janary, and a lot of things will change betwen now and the start of the season. And Manning may throw 45-50 TD's again.
Halfway thru the 6th round this is where we stand
Eyedawgz
RB Duckett
RB Staley
RB LT2
WR Harrison
WR TO
1 Player Away
QB Vick
RB McGahee
WR Chad Johnson
WR Ashley Lelie
WR Charles Rogers
WR Steve Smith
Smackdown 2
QB Brady
RB Alexander
RB Holmes
RB Suggs
RB Foster
Niners Reloading
QB Culpepper
RB Martin
RB Barlow
RB Anthony Thomas
WR Burleson
Buckeyedogs
RB Barber
RB Julius Jones
RB Fred Taylor
WR Darrell Jackson
WR Antonio Gates
Funkzilla
QB McNabb
RB Kevin Jones
RB Travis Henry
WR Boldin
WR Ward
Damage Inc
QB Manning
RB Dillon
WR Burress
WR Chambers
WR Evans
Tight Hamstrings II
RB Portis
RB Westbrook
WR Holt
WR Mason
WR Wayne
The NYC Force
QB Bulger
RB James
RB Thomas Jones
RB Mewelde Moore
WR Bennett
WR Andre Johnson
Westchester Barbarians II
QB Palmer
RB Chris Brown
RB Dunn
RB Lamont Jorden
RB McAllister
WR Ronald Curry
The Dude's Dudes
QB Delhomme
RB Tatum Bell
RB Jamal Lewis
WR Branch
WR Fitzgerald
WR Roy Williams
Longshotz-IV
RB Bennett
RB Larry Johnson
RB Pittman
WR Randy Moss
WR Donald Driver
ESU Timberwolves
RB Domanick Davis
RB Rudi Johnson
RB Nick Goings
WR Michael Clayton
WR Joe Horn
WR Tony Gonzalez
Good Ole Boys
RB Ahman Green
RB Steven Jackson
RB Onterrio Smith
WR Javon Walker
WR Laveraneaus Coles
WR Jerry Porter
Eyedawgz
RB Duckett
RB Staley
RB LT2
WR Harrison
WR TO
1 Player Away
QB Vick
RB McGahee
WR Chad Johnson
WR Ashley Lelie
WR Charles Rogers
WR Steve Smith
Smackdown 2
QB Brady
RB Alexander
RB Holmes
RB Suggs
RB Foster
Niners Reloading
QB Culpepper
RB Martin
RB Barlow
RB Anthony Thomas
WR Burleson
Buckeyedogs
RB Barber
RB Julius Jones
RB Fred Taylor
WR Darrell Jackson
WR Antonio Gates
Funkzilla
QB McNabb
RB Kevin Jones
RB Travis Henry
WR Boldin
WR Ward
Damage Inc
QB Manning
RB Dillon
WR Burress
WR Chambers
WR Evans
Tight Hamstrings II
RB Portis
RB Westbrook
WR Holt
WR Mason
WR Wayne
The NYC Force
QB Bulger
RB James
RB Thomas Jones
RB Mewelde Moore
WR Bennett
WR Andre Johnson
Westchester Barbarians II
QB Palmer
RB Chris Brown
RB Dunn
RB Lamont Jorden
RB McAllister
WR Ronald Curry
The Dude's Dudes
QB Delhomme
RB Tatum Bell
RB Jamal Lewis
WR Branch
WR Fitzgerald
WR Roy Williams
Longshotz-IV
RB Bennett
RB Larry Johnson
RB Pittman
WR Randy Moss
WR Donald Driver
ESU Timberwolves
RB Domanick Davis
RB Rudi Johnson
RB Nick Goings
WR Michael Clayton
WR Joe Horn
WR Tony Gonzalez
Good Ole Boys
RB Ahman Green
RB Steven Jackson
RB Onterrio Smith
WR Javon Walker
WR Laveraneaus Coles
WR Jerry Porter
valhallan
Footballguy
Through pick 76WR/TE: Moss, Randy MIN WROwens, Terrell PHI WRJohnson, Chad CIN WRHolt, Torry STL WRJohnson, Andre HOU WRFitzgerald, Larry ARI WRHarrison, Marvin IND WRHorn, Joe NOS WRWalker, Javon GBP WRClayton, Michael TBB WRWilliams, Roy DET WRWayne, Reggie IND WREvans, Lee BUF WRBoldin, Anquan ARI WRGates, Antonio SDC TEBurleson, Nate MIN WRSmith, Steve CAR WRLelie, Ashley DEN WRChambers, Chris MIA WRJackson, Darrell SEA WRWard, Hines PIT WRBurress, Plaxico PIT WRMason, Derrick TEN WRBennett, Drew TEN WRRogers, Charles DET WRGonzalez, Tony KCC TEColes, Laveranues WAS WRPorter, Jerry OAK WRDriver, Donald GBP WRBranch, Deion NEP WRCurry, Ronald OAK WRQB: Manning, Peyton IND QBCulpepper, Daunte MIN QBMcNabb, Donovan PHI QBVick, Michael ATL QBBulger, Marc STL QBBrady, Tom NEP QBPalmer, Carson CIN QBDelhomme, Jake CAR QBRB:Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RBMcGahee, Willis BUF RBJones, Julius DAL RBJones, Kevin DET RBAlexander, Shaun SEA RBPortis, Clinton WAS RBJames, Edgerrin IND RBMcAllister, Deuce NOS RBLewis, Jamal BAL RBJohnson, Larry KCC RBDavis, Domanick HOU RBGreen, Ahman GBP RBJackson, Steven STL RBJohnson, Rudi CIN RBBell, Tatum DEN RBBrown, Chris TEN RBJones, Thomas CHI RBWestbrook, Brian PHI RBDillon, Corey NEP RBBarber, Tiki NYG RBMartin, Curtis NYJ RBSuggs, Lee CLE RBFoster, De'shaun CAR RBHolmes, Priest KCC RBBarlow, Kevan SFO RBTaylor, Fred JAC RBHenry, Travis BUF RBBennett, Michael MIN RBDunn, Warrick ATL RBSmith, Onterrio MIN RBDuckett, T.J. ATL RBJordan, Lamont NYJ RBPittman, Michael TBB RBStaley, Duce PIT RBThomas, Anthony CHI RBGoings, Nick CAR RBMoore, Mewelde MIN RB
A big trade just went downMcGahee, Chad Johnson, Pick 139forSteven Jackson, Pick 99 and Rookie Pick 1.01That leaves me without a 1st round rookie pick but my roster is nowRB Ahman Green, Willis McGahee, Onterrio SmithWR Chad Johnson, Javon Walker, Laveranues Coles, Jerry PorterI wasn't really sold on any of the rookie backs so I hope I made the right decision.
EBF
Footballguy
Here are last year's top 5 QBs in terms of QB rating:1. Peyton Manning
2. Daunte Culpepper
3. Drew Brees
4. Donovan McNabb
5. Ben Roethlisberger
That looks like pretty good company. Here are last year's top 5 QBs in terms of yards/attempt:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Daunte Culpepper
4. Donovan McNabb
5. Trent Green
Again, that's good company.
People are missing the boat on Big Ben. He didn't attempt many passes last year, but he flashed the potential to be a top fantasy QB. Tommy Maddox attempted 519 passes as a Steeler in 2002. If Big Ben attempted 519 passes last year and maintained his averages, he would've thrown for 4,613 yards and 38 TDs. That's pretty good.
Obviously it's all speculation and we've yet to see that Roethlisberger can maintain his level of play over a large amount of attempts, but I'm inclined to believe that he's shown enough promise to warrant a high selection in dynasty leagues. It boggles my mind why people would possibly take David Carr or Carson Palmer over him.
One of my main mantras in dynasty leagues is that talent trumps all. When in doubt, take the most talented player available. Big Ben may not presently be in a system that leads to big passing stats, but that could change very soon. Remember, Tommy Maddox had 500+ attempts in 2002. It's conceivable that Big Ben will have the same amount in 2005 or 2006. The bottom line for me is that Big Ben has shown the potential to be one of the very best passers in the NFL. Aside from the established top 3 and maybe Vick, I can't think of a QB that I'd rather have in a dynasty league.
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Chumpson
Footballguy
Do you really think that they will be passing that much any time soon? The reason they passed so much that year with Maddox was the horrid defensive play, they were winning by outscoring people. I don't see them relying on Big Ben any time soon, though he may be up to it. FF Ball has that second thing that people miss out on--OPPORTUNITY!
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Geez, reading this thread has me revved up to draft again. Maybe I'll look to see if there are openings in MOX XXXIV or whatever the hell number Ravnzfan is up to now.
EBF
Footballguy
It's absolutely possible. All it takes to turn a good defense into a bad defense is injuries, aging, and/or free agent defections. If you don't think it can happen then look at the Tennessee Titans. Even if Pitt's D stays tough, the team will probably stll throw more next year. This year they're playing ball control, but it makes sense that they'll open things up a bit once they feel more comfortable putting pressure on their young QB.
Like I said, talent trumps all in dynasty league. It's foolish to draft a player based on system because a system can change overnight. Talent lasts a little longer.
Some players are overvalued in dynasty leagues because of the system they play in. Some players are undervalued in dynasty leagues because of the system they play in. I think Big Ben is one of those players. The guy just finished one of the best rookie seasons ever by a QB and he can't even crack the top 10 in the dynasty QB threads. I find that a bit odd.
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
I was thinking about coming up with a team called "Dream Team" and trying a committee approach, using a few of the really top-shelf guys from my other keeper / dynasty leagues. I've never put a team together this way, and it'd be an interesting experiment. I haven't even had a partner in years, but that was always because I used to partner up with someone much less into it than me, yet wanted to have equal input. It drove me nuts. But with a group of 5 guys, all consistent proven winners in other leagues I'm in, it could be a very fun approach. Some guys love to keep their eyes open for trade opportunities, some guys love to work the waiver wire and can spot an emerging talent ahead of others, most would be excellent drafters... Individual strategies vary, it would cause slower decision making (esp. regarding free agents, trades, etc.), and things might be contentious at times. However, if the "Dream Team" had nothing but all-star owners, even if a group decision might be difficult to come to, it would still I'm sure be a solid decision. A system would be put in place to make the process more efficient, and it could be very workable.I'd have fun teaming up with guys in this one league I've been busting my hump to compete with in these other leagues. I'm liking this idea more and more as I think about it. Even if it doesn't turn out as hoped (the proverbial "A camel is a horse designed by a committee"), I'd like to experience it to find out.
Tau837
Footballguy
A few comments:1. QB rating and ypa are not necessarily good predictors of fantasy success, which is what we're talking about here.
2. If the Steelers scale up Roethlisberger's passing attempts, it will almost certainly bring down his QB rating and ypa.
3. I'll grant you David Carr, but I would easily take Carson Palmer over Roethlisberger... that's a nobrainer IMO.
4. In Cowher's tenure, there have been two top 10 fantasy QB finishes, by Kordell in 1997 and 2001; in both of those cases, Kordell had big rushing numbers, not likely for Roethlisberger. There was only one other top 15 fantasy QB finish, by Neil O'Donnell in 1993; his numbers (270/486 (55.6%), 3208 passing yards (6.6 ypa), 14 TDs, 7 interceptions and 26/111/0 rushing) don't look particularly impressive, so perhaps that was a weak year for QBs.
Personally, I just felt the 6th round was a bit early to take him as your second QB. Hey, good luck. Maybe you're right.
EBF
Footballguy
I don't know that Kordell, Maddox, and O'Donnell really compare to Roethlisberger from a skills standpoint. You never know what Cowher would have done if he'd had a better passer.The reason I grabbed two quality QBs early is because I believe that elite QBs are the rarest commodity in dynasty leagues. It's easy to find a good RB or WR. There are about 10 of them ready to be drafted this year. It's much harder to find a good QB. I think it's wise to lock up the QB position so that I can focus future drafts on positions with better success rates. I may not have to draft another QB for 5-6 years. As for Palmer, I think he's overrated. He showed flashes of becoming a great fantasy QB, but he threw 137 more passes than Roethlisberger last year and only had 276 more yards and 1 more TD. That's all with an extra year of learning under his belt. Like I said, I think people who are down on Roethlisberger are a bit short-sighted. Maybe he will just be another Aikman, but I'm inclined to believe that he has a good chance of becoming one of the best fantasy QBs in the league.
EBF
Footballguy
By the way, I just took Cedric Cobbs at 7.06. I'm not wild about the pick when I look at some of the names left on the board, but I simply had to reach for a RB sooner or later. I've always liked Cobbs and I see Corey Dillon as a major injury risk for next season. My fear is that the Patriots draft another backup this year, but that's why I only used a seventh rounder on Cobbs. I think he's worth the risk at this stage of the draft.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
I agree with this and usually see eye to eye with you on your thoughts on dynasty leagues, but I must ask why in the world you took Travis Henry over many other far more talented players. When I saw you took Henry over guys like AJ I was shocked. I understand the lineup requirements in Misfits as I'm in MOXIII, but passing on talent for need in the initial draft just doesn't seem like your style.Henry is the poster child for being in a good situation during 02' and 03' where he got a ton of carries. He doesn't break any long runs, can't catch, etc.I'm 100% for drafting talent over situation, that is why I don't get the Henry pick you made. Henry is the ultimate situation player IMO, not a great talent, but obviously your opinion on his talent level differs greatly from mine.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Maybe you're right. I'm in MOX I and I haven't won a title yet, though I have been a playoff team both years. Maybe I just needed a better QB (I have had McNair/Volek, Maddox, and Rattay/Dorsey over that span).Here's the thing. Assuming your MOX league has the same rules as MOX I, there will be 14 starting QBs and a total of 84 starting RBs and WRs each week (1 QB, 2 WRs, 2 RBs, 2 flex, 14 teams). Unless you have played in a similarly sized league before, it may be hard to appreciate how hard it is to find that 5th and 6th RB/WR each week.For the same reason, RBs are at a premium in the rookie drafts, followed by WRs. This makes quality QBs fairly easy to draft in the rookie drafts. For example, in MOX I last season, Eli Manning went at 1.11, Roethlisberger 1.13, and Rivers 1.14. This means every team other than the 2003 champion could have had Roethlisberger.Good luck.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Bingo. It's the two flex spots, and more specifically the ability to use them both at RB, that creates such a high premium vis-a-vis QB.32 NFL teams / 14 MOX teams = 2.29 NFL starting QBs per MOX team.That's 2.29 starting NFL QBs per lineup spot.32 x 1.5 RBs (accounting for RBBC etc, roughly) = 48 lineup-calibre RBs48 / 14 MOX teams = 3.43 NFL starting RBs per MOX team.That's 3.43 / 2 or 1.72 RBs per required lineup spot, and 3.43 / 4 or 0.86 RBs per possible lineup spot.So, you can see how you can easily be left in the cold in this format if you delay getting your RBs while others are grabbing enough RBs early to start four.Trade value, as you would expect, is accordingly skewed.
EBF
Footballguy
Henry may not be an elite back, but he's a good back and he's a much better bet to produce than the RBs I would've been picking from at 4.09. In my opinion, Henry + Boldin > AJ + whichever RB I would've taken at 4.09. Talent is extremely important, but you do need to give some consideration to your team's needs. I have no doubt that Andre Johnson is more talented than Travis Henry, but if I would've passed on Henry then I would've been left to pick from Michael Pittman, Duce Staley, Anthony Thomas, Nick Goings, and Mewelde Moore. Needless to say, I don't like the thought of having one of those backs as my RB2. Now you might hear this and wonder why I then took Roethlisberger in the sixth when I could've drafted for need. The answer is that the RB and WR crops had been fairly picked over and I didn't feel like I was sacrificing much by drafting depth.
EBF
Footballguy
RBs and WRs may be at a premium, but I still prefer my odds of pulling an elite WR/RB from the rookie draft than a productive QB. Like I said, good QBs are more rare than good WRs and RBs. If you have one pick in the rookie draft and there are three good RBs and one good QB then your odds are theoretically higher of getting a good RB than a good QB. Look at the recent draft classes. I think you could make a good case for all of these guys being top 20 fantasy RBs next season:2004: Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, Steven Jackson, Tatum Bell 2003: Willis McGahee, Chris Brown, Domanick Davis, Larry Johnson, Onterrio Smith2002: Clinton Portis, DeShaun Foster, Brian Westbrook2001: LaDainian Tomlinson, Michael Bennett, Deuce McAllister, Travis Henry, Kevan BarlowEach class seems to yield about 4 solid RBs. I realize that a few of the above players will bust, but so will many of the highly-touted QBs. Assuming I don't trade away my picks, I will have a top 14 selection every year. I like my odds of getting a productive RB/WR with those picks more than I like my odds of getting a productive QB. Furthermore, I also think RBs and WRs offer greater potential for immediate returns. Finally, good QBs tend to last longer than good RBs. There are exceptions, but I think the general rule holds true. Also, you seem to be assuming that I won't have success filling out my lineup in the later rounds. I wouldn't assume that just yet. There are a lot of rounds left and a lot of players who can fit in my flex spots.
I think you can make a case for QB but it seems to me that unless you are picking early you can't really lock up a SAFE RB even with a top pick, let alone a RB picked out of the top few each draft. Last season teams were drafting late first round selections such as Greg Jones or Cedrick Cobbs while Mewelde Moore for a short while shined the brightest as a 2nd round pick. Will any of them actually become a full time starting RB anyway?The last few years you could have taken Duckett, WGreen, etc and not busted completely but certainly not gotten that elite back. This past year most rookie drafts saw KJones, Jackson, JJones, and then TBell in that order which match up to the only ones you say are studs as well. Well, at the end of the 1st round teams were taking Eli Manning, Roeths, etc sometimes into round 2.I think EVERY year you can land a top rookie QB with a mid rookie pick who may or may not work out but you can ALWAYS deal a future rookie pick for a veteran QB who should produce in the 8-15 range atleast short-term as long as you have those stud RB's to afford to deal your hopefully late draft picks 
Tau837
Footballguy
Perhaps a MOX I example will help. I chose week 12 semi-randomly to (a) stay recent and (b) avoid bye weeks but also © avoid the end of season resting of good team's players.Here are the 14 QBs that started in MOX I:BradyBreesBrooksBulgerCarterCulpepperDelhommeFavreGreenManningMcNabbMcNairPlummerVickNone of those guys stands out as weak fantasy starters (excluding matchup considerations), except for Carter, and he was starting against the Cardinals that week. And note that the above list does not include Holcomb, Collins, Palmer, Griese, or Carr, all of whom finished in the top 14 QB scoring for the week (Holcomb, Collins, and Palmer were all in the top 5).Meanwhile, here is a list of RBs, WRs, and TEs (TE = WR in this league) who were started (in no particular order):Nick GoingsKevin FaulkShawn BrysonDallas ClarkAntowain SmithMarty BookerAmani ToomerJason WittenEric JohnsonKevan BarlowTravis MinorT.J. DuckettChester TaylorDeion BranchRichie AndersonDerick ArmstrongDennis NorthcuttNajeh DavenportTony FisherRod GardnerJeremy ShockeyOnly Wells, Larry Johnson, and Hicks were not started among the top 30 RBs for the week. Johnson and Hicks were not viable starters, even in this league until after week 12, when both of them emerged.Of the top 30 WRs/TEs for the week, 9 or 10 were not started... most of whom were players like Jamaar Taylor, Kasim Osgood, Steve Heiden, Erron Kinney, etc. Harder to tell when the WRs/TEs are going to blow up, so this is not too surprising. Also, though these players were missed for the week, they are the type of players one would never feel truly comfortable starting.
EBF
Footballguy
I understand that QBs tend to fall much further in rookie drafts than RBs do, but that still doesn't mean it's easier to draft a productive NFL QB than a productive NFL RB or WR. There are simply less good NFL QBs than there are good NFL RBs and WRs. Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, JP Losman, Philip Rivers, and Eli Manning could all be studs, but the more likely scenario is that only 1-2 of them end up being top 15 fantasy QBs. I don't want to have to be plugging a QB hole every year in the draft. I don't like the odds. You mentioned that you can trade your rookie pick for a productive QB, but I don't want top 8-15 guys. I want top 5 guys. I think the best way to ensure having them is to take them in the initial draft. I'd much rather use my rookie picks on WRs and RBs because I think I'll have a much higher success rate with those positions than I would with QB.I think you can make a case for QB but it seems to me that unless you are picking early you can't really lock up a SAFE RB even with a top pick, let alone a RB picked out of the top few each draft. Last season teams were drafting late first round selections such as Greg Jones or Cedrick Cobbs while Mewelde Moore for a short while shined the brightest as a 2nd round pick. Will any of them actually become a full time starting RB anyway?The last few years you could have taken Duckett, WGreen, etc and not busted completely but certainly not gotten that elite back. This past year most rookie drafts saw KJones, Jackson, JJones, and then TBell in that order which match up to the only ones you say are studs as well. Well, at the end of the 1st round teams were taking Eli Manning, Roeths, etc sometimes into round 2.I think EVERY year you can land a top rookie QB with a mid rookie pick who may or may not work out but you can ALWAYS deal a future rookie pick for a veteran QB who should produce in the 8-15 range atleast short-term as long as you have those stud RB's to afford to deal your hopefully late draft picks
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, we have had two rookie drafts since MOX I existed, so I can't really comment on the 2002 and earlier draft classes. I can tell you that Jones, Jones, Jackson, and Bell were the first 4 rookie picks in 2004. So you couldn't draft one of them unless you finished in the bottom 4 in 2003 (you're not planning to do that, right?
) Meanwhile, as I posted earlier, every team had a chance to draft Roethlisberger except the 2003 champ.I don't have the 2003 rookie draft results handy, but I'm pretty sure McGahee, Smith, Johnson, and Brown were all top 4-5 rookie draft picks. I can't remember if Davis was even drafted at all, so most likely any team could have had him.The point is, you need to either finish poorly, trade for a high pick, or be really good at discovering sleepers to get good RB value in the rookie draft. WR value is easier to find, but still harder than QB. For example, in the 2004 rookie draft, Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Williams, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, and Rashaun Woods all went before the first QB (Manning). Clayton didn't go until 2.1, so there was WR talent available throughout the first round.Incidentally, I am assuming nothing about your team. I'm not following the draft at all, I have read only what is posted in this thread.
EBF
Footballguy
I don't know if you're talking to me, but if you are, then I would point you towards this quote in a prior post.
I have traditionally had success finding productive RBs late in the draft. Here are my first five RB picks from my two most recent initial dynasty drafts:Zealots Field 18 (12 teams, Feb 2004, separate rookie draft)1.06 - Kevan Barlow - Obviously a bad pick, but he still holds some value4.03 - Chris Brown - So far so good7.08 - Larry Johnson - He's overrated, but was obviously well worth this pick 10.06 - Musa Smith - Nada, but he still has time11.02 - Thomas Jones - A steal hereAs you can see, I only used two of my top five picks on RBs and I was still able to pull 3-4 consensus top 25 dynasty RBs from the draft. Had I not whiffed on Barlow, this would've been a great draft for me. PDFFL (12 teams, Jul 2003, rookies included in initial draft)1.04 - Deuce McAllister - Solid RB12.03 - William Green - Probably the worst pick I've ever made6.04 - Onterrio Smith - Mediocre pick 9.04 - Chris Brown - Great value here11.01 - Tony Hollings - Nothing but injuries so far This is a bit uglier than the last draft, but I still got two quality starters and another player who could be if he were given enough touches.You'll notice that I never took more than two RBs with my first five picks. I don't like reaching for RBs in dynasty drafts. In a league like MOX IV there's pressure to use all your early picks on backs, but I've been around long enough to realize that many of the backs who are chosen high simply aren't worthy of their draft slots. When I don't see value at RB, I don't take a RB. It's pretty simple. I'd rather wait and get some undervalued guys and/or wait and get guys through the rookie draft. This has worked out fine for me so far and RB has not typically been one of my trouble spots in my leagues.
Buckna...sorry 'bout pinching that Buff-D right out from under you........NOT AT ALL!seriously...I dealt my 6.13/7.2, for the 6.12/7.03, only to have the 7.2 dealt away and the Raven-D was picked IN THE SPOT I HAD OWNED, but traded! I didn't think they would go that soon, but I was wrong I tried trading the 7.12--where he could have taken the Buff-D--plus compensation for the Raven-D, to no availstill decent QB's/D's there, obviously, but many of us are cut from the same cloth so you will see many times over the course of the draft players picked right before another owner is ready to land them
Oh well, guess that is a no to my trade offer... 
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Tommy - No, I'm interested in smart FF guys, not just lucky ones.
But seriously, from MOX I it was you and Just Win Baby I was hoping would be interested. Both of you are not only very good but I have a good rapport with you. I think that's important. I have one guy in particular in mind from my Red Zone FFL (the commish there - excellent FF guy, detail-oriented, excellent with trades. Lurks here but doesn't post that I am aware) and a couple of guys in my Shark Infested FFL (again the commish, though he may be too busy - posts here - and another guy who was 2-time champ before I dethroned him 
). Then there are MOX III guys, though it looks like some guys I have in mind are already in one of the new MOX leagues. I have not yet contacted anyone about this, and it'll probably be Saturday before I give it much attention.I'd like the group to consist of 5 guys, all equal in ownership and power, with some system in place to facilitate final decisionmaking.EDIT to add - The Dream Team (or, possible alternate team name The Syndicate) is officially an owner in MOX VII. There's plenty of time, but I'll be contacting guys within a week to gauge interest.
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fatness
Footballguy
Have you gotten any feedback from other league members about the Dream Team idea? I'm not in that league, so it doesn't affect me directly. But if someone in one of my leagues wanted to do it I'd likely object. It seems like 5 against 1, and in a money league. And before anyone wonders about it, there's no animosity between me and Couch Potato. In fact, I was on vacation during a rookie draft last year and he actually made my rookie picks for me (from my cheatsheet). So I owe him a favor, and he's a nice guy to boot.
Nugget
Footballguy
I'm in VI, not VII, but do not see a supposed advantage in 5 owners sharing a team. Communication issues and differing opinions would possibly hamper the team. What 5 facets to FF would they look at... 1. Draft, 2. Trades, 3 Weekly line-ups, 4. Waiver moves, 5. Future drafts?? If I'm set on starting Keary Colbert vs the Saints and you like Eric Parker vs the Chiefs who wins?? I like being the GM, the dictator, and I think I can make more efficient decisions this way. The comittee approach will be able to collect more info, but can it be processed into anything that makes the team better off? I'm interested in the experiment (and I prefer The Syndicate as a team name...much more sinister.)Good luck and please post how it goes.
Tau837
Footballguy
I never thought of it as being objectionable. There are teams with multiple owners in every one of my leagues and there always have been. Unless a league has a rule against it, which I find hard to believe, I don't think it requires approval.And, by the way CP, I'm interested. You guys can do all the heavy lifting anyway.Have you gotten any feedback from other league members about the Dream Team idea? I'm not in that league, so it doesn't affect me directly. But if someone in one of my leagues wanted to do it I'd likely object. It seems like 5 against 1, and in a money league. And before anyone wonders about it, there's no animosity between me and Couch Potato. In fact, I was on vacation during a rookie draft last year and he actually made my rookie picks for me (from my cheatsheet). So I owe him a favor, and he's a nice guy to boot.
