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Missing Cleveland teens found Alive 10 years after being abducted! (1 Viewer)

I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
The media?

 
cstu, on 13 May 2013 - 12:59, said:

Marauder, on 13 May 2013 - 12:49, said:I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
The media?
I think he meant any "decent" people. So you know, media and lawyers were automatically excluded.
 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
I guess that's true. In the Elizabeth Smart trial the defense went easy on her in the cross but she still had to spend three days on the stand reliving everything in her testimony for the Prosecution.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
If the prosecution is going for the death penalty I think you would have to cross examine the witnesses, most likely aggressively.
 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
I thought I heard something about the charges not carrying the death penalty, despite there being over 300 of them. I think the only charge that would carry said penalty is a murder charge, but with a lack of physical evidence, they probably won't be able to prove it.

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
I thought I heard something about the charges not carrying the death penalty, despite there being over 300 of them. I think the only charge that would carry said penalty is a murder charge, but with a lack of physical evidence, they probably won't be able to prove it.
Meh. He took 10 years away from 3 women each. He would be lucky to have that much time left. He loses what he took in a perfect world.

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
The only defense he has is insanity. Nothing else makes sense in his case so they had to come up with something. Thing is this won't fly because there's a difference between being legally insane and being nuts and evil upstairs.

 
My guess is that he is going to claim that the girls were his roommates or something stupid like that.

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
The only defense he has is insanity. Nothing else makes sense in his case so they had to come up with something. Thing is this won't fly because there's a difference between being legally insane and being nuts and evil upstairs.
Per Ohio law:

"A person is 'not guilty by reason of insanity' relative to a charge of an offense only if

the person proves, in the manner specified in section 2901.05 of the Revised Code (i.e. by a preponderance of the evidence), that at the time of the commission of the offense, the person did not know, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, the wrongfulness of the person's acts."
Can't see any way that he can prove that he didn't know what he was doing for 10 years was wrong.

 
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How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
I thought I heard something about the charges not carrying the death penalty, despite there being over 300 of them. I think the only charge that would carry said penalty is a murder charge, but with a lack of physical evidence, they probably won't be able to prove it.
Meh. He took 10 years away from 3 women each. He would be lucky to have that much time left. He loses what he took in a perfect world.
Release him into the general population at whatever prison he's in. Inmates generally hate kidnappers and child molestors.

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
The only defense he has is insanity. Nothing else makes sense in his case so they had to come up with something. Thing is this won't fly because there's a difference between being legally insane and being nuts and evil upstairs.
Per Ohio law:

"A person is 'not guilty by reason of insanity' relative to a charge of an offense only if

the person proves, in the manner specified in section 2901.05 of the Revised Code (i.e. by a preponderance of the evidence), that at the time of the commission of the offense, the person did not know, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, the wrongfulness of the person's acts."
Can't see any way that he can prove that he didn't know what he was doing for 10 years was wrong.
Especially given the talk about locked doors and loud music in the house whenever family came over. He showed he knew what he was doing was unlawful and that he would be in trouble if caught by those actions. I assume the prosecution would get those people on the stand to knock down any insanity plea.

 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-kidnapping-suspect-competent-trial-article-1.1389113

Ariel Castro, Cleveland kidnapping suspect, requests visit with 6-year-old child who was born in captivity A Cuyahoga County judge said an examination of Ariel Castro — who is charged with holding three women captive for about a decade — showed that he is mentally competent for trial because he understands the charges against him and can assist attorneys in his defense.Comments (12)

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-kidnapping-suspect-competent-trial-article-1.1389113#ixzz2Y0whehLV

 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-kidnapping-suspect-competent-trial-article-1.1389113

Ariel Castro, Cleveland kidnapping suspect, requests visit with 6-year-old child who was born in captivity A Cuyahoga County judge said an examination of Ariel Castro — who is charged with holding three women captive for about a decade — showed that he is mentally competent for trial because he understands the charges against him and can assist attorneys in his defense.Comments (12)

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleveland-kidnapping-suspect-competent-trial-article-1.1389113#ixzz2Y0whehLV
#### that ####. Seriously.

 
The first two girls look like they have a good chance at recovery, but Michelle Knight looked to be in far worse shape. I really hope these girls can get some sense of normalcy. The resilience of these abducted girls (and others) is amazing to me.

 
The first two girls look like they have a good chance at recovery, but Michelle Knight looked to be in far worse shape. I really hope these girls can get some sense of normalcy. The resilience of these abducted girls (and others) is amazing to me.
If I'm not mistaken, Michelle Knight is/was "slow" to begin with. She received the brunt of it even after the other two came along- she was treated worse than the others. I am in awe of her statement, especially considering this all just ended in May. They all look good, I love their haircuts. One university is offering free tuition for all of them to help them better their lives. A million dollars in funds has helped them recoup and I'm sure more will be coming. Between the funds and massive support, that's what's keeping them afloat.

God be with them and may they continue to recover and thrive while Ariel gets his..

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
Yes, because not doing so would probably be per se ineffective. That said, I'd imagine they'd go incredibly easy.

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
Because it would have been stupid to do so as he'd have to plead to each charge and face maximum punishment.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
Yes, because not doing so would probably be per se ineffective. That said, I'd imagine they'd go incredibly easy.
There's no way the state would agree to a jury trial without going for whatever max there is, and a jury will hate the defendant and his defense team for forcing the women to testify. They have no chance of winning at trial.

The only leverage the defense has is offering to spare the women and the public the emotional wringer of a trial as part of a plea deal.

 
There's no way the state would agree to a jury trial without going for whatever max there is, and a jury will hate the defendant and his defense team for forcing the women to testify. They have no chance of winning at trial.

The only leverage the defense has is offering to spare the women and the public the emotional wringer of a trial as part of a plea deal.
Luckily he's in Ohio. Even with the overwhelming evidence, Vegas would have him at a 50-50 chance of going free in FL, the #1 state for acquittal of the obviously guilty.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
Yes, because not doing so would probably be per se ineffective. That said, I'd imagine they'd go incredibly easy.
There's no way the state would agree to a jury trial without going for whatever max there is, and a jury will hate the defendant and his defense team for forcing the women to testify. They have no chance of winning at trial.

The only leverage the defense has is offering to spare the women and the public the emotional wringer of a trial as part of a plea deal.
Whether the defendant chooses to exercise his right to a jury trial (and a bifurcated jury trial if a capital charge is brought) is not really the state has standing to object or "agree" to.

That said, I'd agree the State would seek the maximum punishment by law at trial and that the defendant would likely lose.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
Yes, because not doing so would probably be per se ineffective. That said, I'd imagine they'd go incredibly easy.
There's no way the state would agree to a jury trial without going for whatever max there is, and a jury will hate the defendant and his defense team for forcing the women to testify. They have no chance of winning at trial.

The only leverage the defense has is offering to spare the women and the public the emotional wringer of a trial as part of a plea deal.
Whether the defendant chooses to exercise his right to a jury trial (and a bifurcated jury trial if a capital charge is brought) is not really the state has standing to object or "agree" to.

That said, I'd agree the State would seek the maximum punishment by law at trial and that the defendant would likely lose.
I still think the Prosecution put the Death Penalty on the table purely as a negotiating tactic to get Castro to plead guilty to everything else and ensure he gets life in prison without having to go to trial.

 
I would bet there won't be a trial. He'll probably plead guilty and get a boatload of life sentences. I don't think anybody wants those girls to have to have to testify and go through a grueling cross-examination.
You really think the defense would cross the victims? They would cross the psych experts only imo. Perhaps wishful thinking.
Yes, because not doing so would probably be per se ineffective. That said, I'd imagine they'd go incredibly easy.
There's no way the state would agree to a jury trial without going for whatever max there is, and a jury will hate the defendant and his defense team for forcing the women to testify. They have no chance of winning at trial.

The only leverage the defense has is offering to spare the women and the public the emotional wringer of a trial as part of a plea deal.
Whether the defendant chooses to exercise his right to a jury trial (and a bifurcated jury trial if a capital charge is brought) is not really the state has standing to object or "agree" to.

That said, I'd agree the State would seek the maximum punishment by law at trial and that the defendant would likely lose.
I still think the Prosecution put the Death Penalty on the table purely as a negotiating tactic to get Castro to plead guilty to everything else and ensure he gets life in prison without having to go to trial.
You certainly may be right. I just wanted to clear up any confusion that the State has any sort of actual say in whether the Defendant chooses a jury trial (obviously the state chose to bring charges and can give a plea incentive to not go to trial, but it's not like they have to "agree").

 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
I thought I heard something about the charges not carrying the death penalty, despite there being over 300 of them. I think the only charge that would carry said penalty is a murder charge, but with a lack of physical evidence, they probably won't be able to prove it.
Meh. He took 10 years away from 3 women each. He would be lucky to have that much time left. He loses what he took in a perfect world.
Release him into the general population at whatever prison he's in. Inmates generally hate kidnappers and child molestors.
Sadly I have found this is urban myth. Turns out they dont much care.

 
It is sad to see her interview, it seems like she is traumatized child stuck in an adult's body. I hope she finds someone who will offer her genuine love.
I know. Makes me want to reach out and give her a big hug. I just can't imagine, so sad...

 
It is sad to see her interview, it seems like she is traumatized child stuck in an adult's body. I hope she finds someone who will offer her genuine love.
I know. Makes me want to reach out and give her a big hug. I just can't imagine, so sad...
Jesus, your heart just goes out to her.
 
How does this POS plead not guilty? I am all for justice, but the evidence is overwhelming. Just line him up for execution immediately after the trial.
I thought I heard something about the charges not carrying the death penalty, despite there being over 300 of them. I think the only charge that would carry said penalty is a murder charge, but with a lack of physical evidence, they probably won't be able to prove it.
Meh. He took 10 years away from 3 women each. He would be lucky to have that much time left. He loses what he took in a perfect world.
Release him into the general population at whatever prison he's in. Inmates generally hate kidnappers and child molestors.
Sadly I have found this is urban myth. Turns out they dont much care.
This. Prisoners who get a little to frisky or combative end up in segregation (solitary) for up to a month at a time. Most try to avoid this.

 
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/07/ariel_castro_indicted_anew_on.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Prosecuters have brought 977 charges against Castro today. Over 500 pages. No death penalty sought yet though. Local news said they are still mulling that over...

Ariel Castro indicted on new charges, but no death penalty sought


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Accused kidnapper and murderer Ariel Castro was indicted again today on hundreds of new criminal charges, but without Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty calling for the death penalty.

The new 977-count indictment (read the full text of the charges in the document viewer below) adds charges for crimes that prosecutors contend Castro committed against Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight toward the end of a decade-long imprisonment in Castro's Seymour Avenue home.

A previous 329-count indictment only extended from August 2002, the year prosecutors claim Knight was abducted, until February 2007.

Prosecutors have accused Castro, 52, of kidnapping the women and raping them repeatedly in his home, where he sometimes kept them chained and rarely allowed them to leave the house.

The new indictment includes 512 counts of kidnapping, 446 counts of rape, seven counts of gross sexual imposition, six counts of felonious assault, three counts of child endangerment and one count of possessing criminal tools.

It also includes two counts of aggravated murder, which were among those charges carried over from the previous indictment, stemming from claims that Castro beat and tortured one of the women into miscarrying a child.

"Today's indictment moves us closer to resolution of this gruesome case," McGinty stated in a writte release. "Our investigation continues, as does our preparation for trial."

Under Ohio law, McGinty can seek the death penalty for aggravated murder if it is coupled with a kidnapping charge. In 1996, the Ohio legislature passed a law that allows for an aggravated murder charge in cases where a pregnancy is unlawfully terminated.

A capital review committee within McGinty's office met Thursday to discuss whether to pursue the death penalty against Castro. While such a specification is not included in today's indictment, prosecutors could seek to add it later, McGinty spokesman Joe Frolik said.

Castro's attorneys Craig Weintraub and Jaye Schlachet issued a written statement expressing pleasure "that we were able to convince the prosecutor's office to not seek and obtain the death penalty in this new indictment."

They stated further, "It is our hope that we can continue to work toward a resolution of this matter so that the women do not have to endure any additional trauma."

Weintraub elaborated during a phone interview that he and Schlachet submitted mitigating material to the capital review committee that, among other things, raised concerns about subjecting the three women to a trial and disclosing "the private nature of what occurred."

Weintraub has said some of the charges against Castro cannot be refuted and that if the death penalty is not sought, a plea deal could be worked out.

The prosecutor's office stated today that the capital review committee has not completed its evaluation.

Death penalty experts believe McGinty would have a difficult time convincing a jury to sentence Castro to death for various reasons, including the ongoing debate over when life begins and whether killing a fetus is tantamount to murder.

They also believe proving aggravated murder may be difficult without sufficient physical evidence to support testimony from the women.

Another obstacle for McGinty could be the willingness of the three women to take the stand and expose themselves to potentially harsh cross-examination by Castro's defense lawyers, who are duty bound to represent their client to the fullest extent.

"Do these young women want to testify? Can they testify," Case Western Reserve University senior law instructor Michal Benza asked rhetorically during a recent interview.

Included in the evidence collected by the FBI is a diary that was kept by one of the women.

Rob Glickman, a former judge and assistant prosecutor in Cuyahoga County, said McGinty and his advisers likely made their decision not to seek the death penalty based on the strength of the facts in the case and the willingness of the victims to go to trial.

"I'm sure they made that decision in consultation with the victims," he said.

Glickman said that given the extent of the charges against Castro, McGinty should have no problem convincing a judge to give Castro enough consecutive sentences for his crimes to keep him in prison for the rest of his life.

A judge could also impose life without parole if prosecutors are able to prove aggravated murder, said Steve Dever, a former assistant county prosecutor under three previous administrations.

Barry, DeJesus and Knight emerged from a decade of captivity on May 4 after Berry, with the help of neighbors, escaped with her 6-year-old daughter through the front door of Castro's home while he was away.

Police responded to find DeJesus and Knight also in the house. All three had gone missing in the same area of west Cleveland about a decade ago and were largely presumed dead.

Their seemingly miraculous rescue captivated the world, and national media outlets are still angling for what they hope is the first interview with the traumatized women.

The women recently released a short youtube video during which they thanked supporters and conveyed an image of recovery.

A fund set up on behalf of the women has received more than $1 million from 9,200 donors, with some of the money already being provided to the women and their families.

Bruce Hennes, a spokesman for the women, declined to comment on today's news.

Castro, who is being held in Cuyahoga County Jail, has appeared in court for pre-trial hearings, always with shackles on his wrists and ankles and with his head bowed.

Judge Michael Russo recently ruled that Casto was competent to stand trial, based on a court-ordered evaluation and a stipulation by Castro's attorneys.

Knight was 21 when she went missing in August of 2002. Berry was 16 when she disappeared in April 2003, while DeJesus was 14 when she failed to arrive home from Wilbur Wright school in April 2004.

The trial is still scheduled to begin Aug. 5.
 
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/07/ariel_castro_indicted_anew_on.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Prosecuters have brought 977 charges against Castro today. Over 500 pages. No death penalty sought yet though. Local news said they are still mulling that over...

Ariel Castro indicted on new charges, but no death penalty sought


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Accused kidnapper and murderer Ariel Castro was indicted again today on hundreds of new criminal charges, but without Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty calling for the death penalty.

The new 977-count indictment (read the full text of the charges in the document viewer below) adds charges for crimes that prosecutors contend Castro committed against Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight toward the end of a decade-long imprisonment in Castro's Seymour Avenue home.

A previous 329-count indictment only extended from August 2002, the year prosecutors claim Knight was abducted, until February 2007.

Prosecutors have accused Castro, 52, of kidnapping the women and raping them repeatedly in his home, where he sometimes kept them chained and rarely allowed them to leave the house.

The new indictment includes 512 counts of kidnapping, 446 counts of rape, seven counts of gross sexual imposition, six counts of felonious assault, three counts of child endangerment and one count of possessing criminal tools.

It also includes two counts of aggravated murder, which were among those charges carried over from the previous indictment, stemming from claims that Castro beat and tortured one of the women into miscarrying a child.

"Today's indictment moves us closer to resolution of this gruesome case," McGinty stated in a writte release. "Our investigation continues, as does our preparation for trial."

Under Ohio law, McGinty can seek the death penalty for aggravated murder if it is coupled with a kidnapping charge. In 1996, the Ohio legislature passed a law that allows for an aggravated murder charge in cases where a pregnancy is unlawfully terminated.

A capital review committee within McGinty's office met Thursday to discuss whether to pursue the death penalty against Castro. While such a specification is not included in today's indictment, prosecutors could seek to add it later, McGinty spokesman Joe Frolik said.

Castro's attorneys Craig Weintraub and Jaye Schlachet issued a written statement expressing pleasure "that we were able to convince the prosecutor's office to not seek and obtain the death penalty in this new indictment."

They stated further, "It is our hope that we can continue to work toward a resolution of this matter so that the women do not have to endure any additional trauma."

Weintraub elaborated during a phone interview that he and Schlachet submitted mitigating material to the capital review committee that, among other things, raised concerns about subjecting the three women to a trial and disclosing "the private nature of what occurred."

Weintraub has said some of the charges against Castro cannot be refuted and that if the death penalty is not sought, a plea deal could be worked out.

The prosecutor's office stated today that the capital review committee has not completed its evaluation.

Death penalty experts believe McGinty would have a difficult time convincing a jury to sentence Castro to death for various reasons, including the ongoing debate over when life begins and whether killing a fetus is tantamount to murder.

They also believe proving aggravated murder may be difficult without sufficient physical evidence to support testimony from the women.

Another obstacle for McGinty could be the willingness of the three women to take the stand and expose themselves to potentially harsh cross-examination by Castro's defense lawyers, who are duty bound to represent their client to the fullest extent.

"Do these young women want to testify? Can they testify," Case Western Reserve University senior law instructor Michal Benza asked rhetorically during a recent interview.

Included in the evidence collected by the FBI is a diary that was kept by one of the women.

Rob Glickman, a former judge and assistant prosecutor in Cuyahoga County, said McGinty and his advisers likely made their decision not to seek the death penalty based on the strength of the facts in the case and the willingness of the victims to go to trial.

"I'm sure they made that decision in consultation with the victims," he said.

Glickman said that given the extent of the charges against Castro, McGinty should have no problem convincing a judge to give Castro enough consecutive sentences for his crimes to keep him in prison for the rest of his life.

A judge could also impose life without parole if prosecutors are able to prove aggravated murder, said Steve Dever, a former assistant county prosecutor under three previous administrations.

Barry, DeJesus and Knight emerged from a decade of captivity on May 4 after Berry, with the help of neighbors, escaped with her 6-year-old daughter through the front door of Castro's home while he was away.

Police responded to find DeJesus and Knight also in the house. All three had gone missing in the same area of west Cleveland about a decade ago and were largely presumed dead.

Their seemingly miraculous rescue captivated the world, and national media outlets are still angling for what they hope is the first interview with the traumatized women.

The women recently released a short youtube video during which they thanked supporters and conveyed an image of recovery.

A fund set up on behalf of the women has received more than $1 million from 9,200 donors, with some of the money already being provided to the women and their families.

Bruce Hennes, a spokesman for the women, declined to comment on today's news.

Castro, who is being held in Cuyahoga County Jail, has appeared in court for pre-trial hearings, always with shackles on his wrists and ankles and with his head bowed.

Judge Michael Russo recently ruled that Casto was competent to stand trial, based on a court-ordered evaluation and a stipulation by Castro's attorneys.

Knight was 21 when she went missing in August of 2002. Berry was 16 when she disappeared in April 2003, while DeJesus was 14 when she failed to arrive home from Wilbur Wright school in April 2004.

The trial is still scheduled to begin Aug. 5.
"977 huh? What was the middle one again?

 
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It is sad to see her interview, it seems like she is traumatized child stuck in an adult's body. I hope she finds someone who will offer her genuine love.
This really fills in the gaps. When I found the interviews and posted somebody immediately changed the links in a way that watered them down. At first it was just the girls, full statements. Then it was news intros and interpretations of them and finally I couldn't find the uncluttered full statements at all. Watching Michelle's unedited interview is a real heartwrenching experience--she is nowhere near at peace with herself. She's desperately grasping now for an answer, fate, path to salvation my God this has got to be for a divine purpose sort of thing. That girl is totally beaten down and shell shocked and it's really tragic. I hope she's getting some real help and love now because it seems like she sure hasn't ever seen it before. :(

 

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