Missing Malaysian jet news (1 Viewer)

[BobbyLayne]

So on CNN this morning, they said they have images of "hundreds of pieces of debris" in a certain area. I know it's a vast area that they're searching, but it amazes me that they haven't been able to physically find anything yet. They've been getting pictures for weeks now.

Indian Ocean = 28.4 million square miles

Southern Ocean = 7.848 million square miles

United States = 3.794 million square miles

Myself, I'm going to go with not amazed.

 

[CurlyNight]

So on CNN this morning, they said they have images of "hundreds of pieces of debris" in a certain area. I know it's a vast area that they're searching, but it amazes me that they haven't been able to physically find anything yet. They've been getting pictures for weeks now.

Well they do say that part of the Indian Ocean is treacherous and now with bad weather on and off, I'm not surprised nothing's been found. I believe it was French radar that found that a couple days ago, one of which there was no search due to weather. What amazes me is when they showed the map of how much trash is in areas of the oceans. Wow! One area was the size of an island!

 

[JuniorNB]

So on CNN this morning, they said they have images of "hundreds of pieces of debris" in a certain area. I know it's a vast area that they're searching, but it amazes me that they haven't been able to physically find anything yet. They've been getting pictures for weeks now.

Indian Ocean = 28.4 million square miles

Southern Ocean = 7.848 million square miles

United States = 3.794 million square miles

Myself, I'm going to go with not amazed.

If they had nothing to go on, those numbers would impress me. They've now seen hundreds of objects floating on the water with pictures. I get the challenge. I understand drifting and the delay of getting the images. Still surprised they haven't gotten one single thing yet.

 

[culdeus]

So on CNN this morning, they said they have images of "hundreds of pieces of debris" in a certain area. I know it's a vast area that they're searching, but it amazes me that they haven't been able to physically find anything yet. They've been getting pictures for weeks now.

Indian Ocean = 28.4 million square miles

Southern Ocean = 7.848 million square miles

United States = 3.794 million square miles

Myself, I'm going to go with not amazed.

I don't recognize the southern ocean. Let me guess pluto isn't a planet in your world either?

communist

 

[Doug B]

If they had nothing to go on, those numbers would impress me. They've now seen hundreds of objects floating on the water with pictures. I get the challenge. I understand drifting and the delay of getting the images. Still surprised they haven't gotten one single thing yet.

From what I understand, the debris just moves too much and too fast. No one gets to see the satellite images in real time. So you get a satellite image, and someone tells you "Here's where some debris-looking stuff was 12 hours ago". Then other factors set it in: "That's 1,500 nautical miles away ... do we ahve the fuel to get out there?" "Kee-rap, there's squalls in that area -- have to try tomorrow" And so on and so on.

Basically, the satellite can find stuff in places the planes & boats can't get to readily -- but then when the planes/boats get there, the stuff's moved on long ago.

 

[Doug B]

I keep hearing speculation about a fire overcoming the pilots.....If this was the case. a fire, how in the hell did an aircraft that was on fire fly another 7 hours?

Smoke more than fire ... for those making this speculation, a fuselage-consuming fire like The Hindenburg is not what's being suggested.

 

[tjnc09]

The youngest son of the pilot whose flight went down in the Indian Ocean has dismissed speculation his father may have crashed the plane intentionally, a report said today.


Ahmad Seth, son of captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, said he knew what kind of man his father was.

“I’ve read everything online. But I’ve ignored all the speculation. I know my father better,” Seth, 26, was quoted by the New Straits Times as saying.

“We may not be close as he travels so much. But I understand him,” the language student added in his first public remarks.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/son-defends-pilot-of-downed-malaysian-jet

One line of speculation suggests Zaharie might have hijacked the plane as a political act. He has been identified as a supporter of a high-profile Malaysian opposition figure. Ahmad rejected such theories. "We may not be as close as he travels so much. But I understand him," Ahmad said of his father in the interview, which was conducted Tuesday.

Comments from government officials on the investigation so far support the Ahmed's view.

A senior Malaysian government official on Wednesday told CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes that authorities have found nothing in 19 days of investigating the two pilots that leads them to any motive, be it political, suicidal or extremist.

And an ongoing FBI review of the two pilots' hard drives, including one in a flight simulator Zaharie had built at his home, has not turned up a "smoking gun," a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation told CNN. "They have accessed the data," the official said. "There is nothing that's jumping out and grabbing us right now."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

His friends, he said, had been a pillar of strength and lent him their support and encouragement. He also reluctantly admitted that he was the strongest in his family in dealing with the crisis, but did not elaborate on how his other family members were coping, said the report.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/son-defends-pilot-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-20140327

lol at the bolded.

There are horrific stories all the time about snapping and doing unthinkable things in the heat of the moment - including killing their kids or random strangers. Nobody ever "knows" what someone is thinking - not even his own son. His son's statement doesn't disprove the theory the pilot committed suicide/murder as much as his "friend's" report proves he did do it.

 

[tjnc09]

But why did the plane fly at 40,000+ altitude for over 20 minutes? That's the part that doesn't seem consistent with an accident unless it was somehow done in confusion.

Not sure this is quite accepted anymore. That's one of the early "facts" that's at least in question right now.

I read yesterday that military radar tracked it for 23 minutes flying between 43,000 and 45,000 feet shortly after communication was lost then descended quickly.

That wasn't from the information released weeks ago - seems more concrete now.

It would help if you linked where you read it. Some sites are currently reporting things from a week or more ago as if they're new.

As investigators continue to analyse satellite data in the hope of finding answers on what happened to Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, an industry expert said the plane spent 23 minutes at up to 45,000 feet – way above its maximum altitude – and rendered everyone unconscious from the lack of oxygen, said a report in British tabloid Daily Mail.

The plane's maximum service ceiling is 43,100 feet, but military radar had tracked the aircraft flying at between 43,000 feet and 45,000 feet shortly after the last communication from its cockpit.

"It was tracked flying at this altitude for 23 minutes before descending. Oxygen would have run out in 12 minutes (in a depressurised cabin), rendering the passengers unconscious," said the source.


An expert said although the 777-200ER Boeing aircraft has a maximum service ceiling of 43,000 feet, it can probably fly safely at even greater heights.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/mh370-spent-23-minutes-above-maximum-altitude-may-have-caused-hypoxia-says

The exact amount of time was never reported before. That sounds too specific to be speculation.

 

[Fat Nick]

But why did the plane fly at 40,000+ altitude for over 20 minutes? That's the part that doesn't seem consistent with an accident unless it was somehow done in confusion.

Not sure this is quite accepted anymore. That's one of the early "facts" that's at least in question right now.

I read yesterday that military radar tracked it for 23 minutes flying between 43,000 and 45,000 feet shortly after communication was lost then descended quickly.

That wasn't from the information released weeks ago - seems more concrete now.

It would help if you linked where you read it. Some sites are currently reporting things from a week or more ago as if they're new.

As investigators continue to analyse satellite data in the hope of finding answers on what happened to Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, an industry expert said the plane spent 23 minutes at up to 45,000 feet – way above its maximum altitude – and rendered everyone unconscious from the lack of oxygen, said a report in British tabloid Daily Mail.

The plane's maximum service ceiling is 43,100 feet, but military radar had tracked the aircraft flying at between 43,000 feet and 45,000 feet shortly after the last communication from its cockpit.

"It was tracked flying at this altitude for 23 minutes before descending. Oxygen would have run out in 12 minutes (in a depressurised cabin), rendering the passengers unconscious," said the source.


An expert said although the 777-200ER Boeing aircraft has a maximum service ceiling of 43,000 feet, it can probably fly safely at even greater heights.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/mh370-spent-23-minutes-above-maximum-altitude-may-have-caused-hypoxia-says

The exact amount of time was never reported before. That sounds too specific to be speculation.

So it flew low, then high, then no, it didn't fly high, only low, then normal altitude, then high again. Oh my god. At this point, the only thing I'm comfortable saying is that the plane once flew, and it no longer is flying.

 

[Fat Nick]

pilots flew the plane to 40,000 feet to starve the fire, it worked but caused them to pass out and die from hypoxia. Plane reverted to auto pilot and brought the plane down to 12,000 feet, and flew straight until fuel deprivation.

Hypothetically - Why was the autopilot set to go back down to 12,000 ft if normal cruise was 35,000?

 

[culdeus]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

 

[Terpman22]

80 pages in. But has The Decepticon Theory been debunked yet? Isn't Calvin Johnson under the ocean somewhere?

 

[KCitons]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

yes. This was mentioned early on. One of the talking heads mentioned that the sound of a pilots voice sounds different if they are communicating through the oxygen mask. This was one reason they wanted to hear all of the conversations with ATC for the entire flight. (to see if there was any change during the last transmission)

 

[TheIronSheik]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

During an emergency, I don't really think the pilot should be worrying about what song is playing on the radio.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

yes. This was mentioned early on. One of the talking heads mentioned that the sound of a pilots voice sounds different if they are communicating through the oxygen mask. This was one reason they wanted to hear all of the conversations with ATC for the entire flight. (to see if there was any change during the last transmission)

I seriously doubt there was an emergency at the time of the last transmission - too easy to say something besides "good night" The basic argument for not calling someone is that the pilots were preoccupied with dealing with the emergency - not that they ignored an opportunity to notify ATC of a problem.

 

[Tom Servo]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

 

[culdeus]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

Are we talking about sex here?

 

[Tom Servo]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

Are we talking about sex here?

Sure, why not?

 

[Fat Nick]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

All the more reason why it's not in the modus operandi for this pilot to commit suicide and take hundreds of people along with him, ultimately bringing shame to his family. Look at the Japanese. They commit Seppuku as a way to honorably kill themselves.

Another thing I didn't even think of until now is that Islam is staunchly AGAINST suicide. I think killing yourself instantly means you won't get your 72 virgins...and I can't think of a way you could spin this guy into a martyr without some obvious directive or cause.

 

[culdeus]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

Are we talking about sex here?

Sure, why not?

I mean it could go a really long way to explaining their porn style vs. ours.

 

[KCitons]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

All the more reason why it's not in the modus operandi for this pilot to commit suicide and take hundreds of people along with him, ultimately bringing shame to his family. Look at the Japanese. They commit Seppuku as a way to honorably kill themselves.

Another thing I didn't even think of until now is that Islam is staunchly AGAINST suicide. I think killing yourself instantly means you won't get your 72 virgins...and I can't think of a way you could spin this guy into a martyr without some obvious directive or cause.

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

During an emergency, I don't really think the pilot should be worrying about what song is playing on the radio.

Unless of course the song is It's Raining Men, then everyone needs to stop and dance.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Dumb question, but can you use the radio with one of the cockpit gas masks or whatever?

During an emergency, I don't really think the pilot should be worrying about what song is playing on the radio.

Unless of course the song is It's Raining Men, then everyone needs to stop and dance.

 

[Fat Nick]

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

I'd go out in the woods and shoot myself...I'd hang myself at home...I'd do, well, anything but take a plane full of unwilling passengers to their graves with me.

 

[KCitons]

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

I'd go out in the woods and shoot myself...I'd hang myself at home...I'd do, well, anything but take a plane full of unwilling passengers to their graves with me.

Doing any of those would bring shame to your family. They may also void your life insurance policy, leaving nothing for your kids.

Dying in an airplane crash may kick in certain escalators in the pilots life insurance. My wife's insurance at the Post Office pays an additional amount if she dies while on the clock. If she went into the woods on a Sunday afternoon, that additional amount wouldn't be paid.

The possibility of insurance payments is something I've been curious about since this plane went missing.

 

[tjnc09]

You don't just zig zag to dodge radar. He would have to have intimate knowledge of radar coverage sweeps.

radar works in circular sweeps and if you are in range you would have to get out of that zone and know there is no other radar outside the zone you left

I don't think we "know" anything we know. So much mis/information.

I don't know anything about Malaysia, but isn't it very important in a lot of Asian cultures to "save face"?

Most, if not all, Asian cultures are "shame" cultures. Americans, Europeans, etc. are "guilt" cultures.

All the more reason why it's not in the modus operandi for this pilot to commit suicide and take hundreds of people along with him, ultimately bringing shame to his family. Look at the Japanese. They commit Seppuku as a way to honorably kill themselves.

Another thing I didn't even think of until now is that Islam is staunchly AGAINST suicide. I think killing yourself instantly means you won't get your 72 virgins...and I can't think of a way you could spin this guy into a martyr without some obvious directive or cause.

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

There is a common misconception that life insurance isn't paid to beneficiaries of someone who commits suicide. In the states, I believe the clauses are either one year or two years depending on the policy protecting the insurance company from paying out. I don't know what it's like in Malaysia.

 

[Two Deep]

Some of the objects were as much as 75 feet long and appeared to be solid, a Malaysian official says.

The objects were scattered over 154 square miles (400 square kilometers), acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Bin Hussein said.

And one of the many search ships can't even bump into one piece.. Seems to me the satellite pictures are not very reliable.

 

[Doug B]

If they had nothing to go on, those numbers would impress me. They've now seen hundreds of objects floating on the water with pictures. I get the challenge. I understand drifting and the delay of getting the images. Still surprised they haven't gotten one single thing yet.

From what I understand, the debris just moves too much and too fast. No one gets to see the satellite images in real time. So you get a satellite image, and someone tells you "Here's where some debris-looking stuff was 12 hours ago". Then other factors set it in: "That's 1,500 nautical miles away ... do we ahve the fuel to get out there?" "Kee-rap, there's squalls in that area -- have to try tomorrow" And so on and so on.

Basically, the satellite can find stuff in places the planes & boats can't get to readily -- but then when the planes/boats get there, the stuff's moved on long ago.

Bump for Two Deep.

 

[KCitons]

All the more reason why it's not in the modus operandi for this pilot to commit suicide and take hundreds of people along with him, ultimately bringing shame to his family. Look at the Japanese. They commit Seppuku as a way to honorably kill themselves.

Another thing I didn't even think of until now is that Islam is staunchly AGAINST suicide. I think killing yourself instantly means you won't get your 72 virgins...and I can't think of a way you could spin this guy into a martyr without some obvious directive or cause.

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

There is a common misconception that life insurance isn't paid to beneficiaries of someone who commits suicide. In the states, I believe the clauses are either one year or two years depending on the policy protecting the insurance company from paying out. I don't know what it's like in Malaysia.

Would it be reasonable to assume that a commercial airline would refuse to pay the family members of the pilot anything if it was a proven case of pilot suicide? Now, if there was any doubt, or not enough evidence could be recovered from the crash site, then the airline would have no choice but to pay.

 

[Two Deep]

If they had nothing to go on, those numbers would impress me. They've now seen hundreds of objects floating on the water with pictures. I get the challenge. I understand drifting and the delay of getting the images. Still surprised they haven't gotten one single thing yet.

From what I understand, the debris just moves too much and too fast. No one gets to see the satellite images in real time. So you get a satellite image, and someone tells you "Here's where some debris-looking stuff was 12 hours ago". Then other factors set it in: "That's 1,500 nautical miles away ... do we ahve the fuel to get out there?" "Kee-rap, there's squalls in that area -- have to try tomorrow" And so on and so on.

Basically, the satellite can find stuff in places the planes & boats can't get to readily -- but then when the planes/boats get there, the stuff's moved on long ago.

Bump for Two Deep.

I hear ya but you would think if it covers 154 square miles even with current and drift you would hit/find something.

 

[tjnc09]

SilkAir 185 seems similar. Pilot Tsu had $1 million in trading losses, obtained life insurance week before, was given discipline from airlines. It is thought he intentionally crashed the plane - but Indonesia denied because they thought people would be afraid to fly. Says his wife and children were paid life insurance benefits.

Wikipedia: silkair 185 and "Bonny Hicks" (says at bottom they paid benefits to pilot Mings wife and children) basically because Indonesia denied suicide and said it was accident

 

[msommer]

What do the aviation blogs say?

Why aren't anyone reading them?

 

[Fat Nick]

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?

Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

I'd go out in the woods and shoot myself...I'd hang myself at home...I'd do, well, anything but take a plane full of unwilling passengers to their graves with me.

Doing any of those would bring shame to your family. They may also void your life insurance policy, leaving nothing for your kids.

Dying in an airplane crash may kick in certain escalators in the pilots life insurance. My wife's insurance at the Post Office pays an additional amount if she dies while on the clock. If she went into the woods on a Sunday afternoon, that additional amount wouldn't be paid.

The possibility of insurance payments is something I've been curious about since this plane went missing.

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

 

[tjnc09]

All the more reason why it's not in the modus operandi for this pilot to commit suicide and take hundreds of people along with him, ultimately bringing shame to his family. Look at the Japanese. They commit Seppuku as a way to honorably kill themselves.

Another thing I didn't even think of until now is that Islam is staunchly AGAINST suicide. I think killing yourself instantly means you won't get your 72 virgins...and I can't think of a way you could spin this guy into a martyr without some obvious directive or cause.

If you were an Asian pilot of a 777 flying out of Malaysia, and you wanted to commit suicide without bringing shame to your family, how would you go about accomplishing this?Still trying to find information in regards to insurance payments for a pilot suicide vs mechanical failure. Haven't seen anything reported on this yet.

There is a common misconception that life insurance isn't paid to beneficiaries of someone who commits suicide. In the states, I believe the clauses are either one year or two years depending on the policy protecting the insurance company from paying out. I don't know what it's like in Malaysia.

Would it be reasonable to assume that a commercial airline would refuse to pay the family members of the pilot anything if it was a proven case of pilot suicide? Now, if there was any doubt, or not enough evidence could be recovered from the crash site, then the airline would have no choice but to pay.

That is possible but he could have easily bought a life insurance policy with an independent company outside of what life insurance the airlines provided to his beneficiaries.

I found one Malaysian insurance company and their suicide clauses seem to be the same as the US.

If he bought the policy >2 years ago and it is ruled suicide, life insurance would still be paid.

If he bought the policy <2 years ago and it is ruled a suicide, life insurance wouldn't be paid and premiums would be refunded to his family (again clauses are either 1 or 2 years).

If he bought the policy <2 years ago and suicide can not be proved, the life insurance would be paid.

There is typically a reasonable timeframe that must pass if the body is not found before a person can be legally declared dead.

In terms of the airline, I don't think they care as much about the life insurance paid as it is most likely through an independent insurance company so much as protecting their business from people fearing a pilot will crash their flight on purpose.

 

[KCitons]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

If the guy's family was not leaving him, and considering the political angle doesn't seem very likely, I don't think anyone sees where the motive for the rogue pilot comes from.

And I really think mechanical failure is very remote given the timing of the turns.

That leaves one possibility, and we don't know much about the 238 people on board.

 

[Fat Nick]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

Why not just put the plane into a stall like Air France 447? Easy to do and undoubtedly fatal. No need to evade radar and fly all over the place. Pilot error doesn't equate to suicide.

Again, KCitons, I'm not discounting your theory. You've brought great info to the thread...I just can't see how someone in the pilot's hypothetical situation would end on this as the "ideal way" to reach the desired end of "I'm going to kill myself, and I want to make sure my family gets paid."

Nobody knows what the heck happened...It'll be very interesting to see what conclusions are drawn. I think that some will be looking to make the pilot a scape goat due to a lack of better options...

 

[Apple Jack]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

If the guy's family was not leaving him, and considering the political angle doesn't seem very likely, I don't think anyone sees where the motive for the rogue pilot comes from.

And I really think mechanical failure is very remote given the timing of the turns.

That leaves one possibility, and we don't know much about the 238 people on board.

 

[Tom Servo]

Some of the objects were as much as 75 feet long and appeared to be solid, a Malaysian official says.

The objects were scattered over 154 square miles (400 square kilometers), acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Bin Hussein said.

And one of the many search ships can't even bump into one piece.. Seems to me the satellite pictures are not very reliable.

They're not showing you their best resolution. Secrecy and all that.

 

[KCitons]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

Why not just put the plane into a stall like Air France 447? Easy to do and undoubtedly fatal. No need to evade radar and fly all over the place. Pilot error doesn't equate to suicide.

Again, KCitons, I'm not discounting your theory. You've brought great info to the thread...I just can't see how someone in the pilot's hypothetical situation would end on this as the "ideal way" to reach the desired end of "I'm going to kill myself, and I want to make sure my family gets paid."

Nobody knows what the heck happened...It'll be very interesting to see what conclusions are drawn. I think that some will be looking to make the pilot a scape goat due to a lack of better options...

I take no offense. I agree nobody knows what happened on that plane.

As far as putting the plane into a stall. The pilot would have to have been in the cockpit alone. Otherwise the cockpit voice recorder would have recorded the copilot questioning the actions. The plane also would have crashed somewhere along it's original flight path. Making it much easier to locate the debris, and the black box.

The only reason I keep circling back to pilot suicide, is that there are too many purposeful errors that can't be contributed to just a mechanical error or fire.

 

[Two Deep]

Some of the objects were as much as 75 feet long and appeared to be solid, a Malaysian official says.

The objects were scattered over 154 square miles (400 square kilometers), acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Bin Hussein said.

And one of the many search ships can't even bump into one piece.. Seems to me the satellite pictures are not very reliable.

They're not showing you their best resolution. Secrecy and all that.

Apparently.......They were able to use some kind of newly developed math to track the plane to the southern Indian Ocean, but they can't take the firm coordinates from the satellite of where the debris is and where it may be after wind, drift and current are taken into account. Hmmmmm.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can we both agree that killing yourself by crashing a plane full of people would bring relatively more shame to your family than hanging yourself in the bedroom alone (NOT auto-erotic asphyxiation style either, not with your pants around your ankles and some granny porn playing on your laptop or anything)? I mean, at a minimum, you've got to see where I'm coming from with that.

I haven't given any thought to life insurance just because I personally don't think it's part of the equation. I get your point re. escalator clauses, and IF that becomes a bigger issue, it's definitely a strong case for why this method of suicide vs. another... It's an interesting angle, and I know that there are likely cases that point to that as a motivator, but why kill yourself and think about your family when you already have a good job and are capable of taking care of them? It just doesn't add up.

I guess I just feel like the life insurance angle is a shot in the dark until we hear any evidence indicating that. I mean, we could say that a mobster kidnapped his family and told him to go crash a plane or he'd kill them and we'd have about the same amount of proof.

It would only bring shame to your family if it was an obvious pilot suicide. An example would be the pilot making some type of statement as he was nosediving towards the ground. I would agree if that was the case.

Trying to dismiss pilot suicide, just because there are 238 other people on board, seems unrealistic. Pilots have done it before.

The insurance angle is just one part of the explanation.

If the guy's family was not leaving him, and considering the political angle doesn't seem very likely, I don't think anyone sees where the motive for the rogue pilot comes from.

And I really think mechanical failure is very remote given the timing of the turns.

That leaves one possibility, and we don't know much about the 238 people on board.

The probabilities right now are more likely that mechanical failure and pilot suicide were not the cause than they were.

 

[Fat Nick]

The probabilities right now are more likely that mechanical failure and pilot suicide were not the cause than they were.

What do you propose the other probabilities actually are?

I'd say that it was 80% mechanical failure OR pilot suicide, leaving 20% for other options. Personally, I'm heavier on the mechanical failure, but I think those two are the leading two options by far.

 

[Fat Nick]

Some of the objects were as much as 75 feet long and appeared to be solid, a Malaysian official says.

The objects were scattered over 154 square miles (400 square kilometers), acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Bin Hussein said.

And one of the many search ships can't even bump into one piece.. Seems to me the satellite pictures are not very reliable.

They're not showing you their best resolution. Secrecy and all that.

Yeah. Gotta think that if I can look at my house in Google Maps Sat view and tell from the sidewalk that the photo was taken on a Thursday (Recycling day), that governments of the world would have slightly better resolution.

That said, I am shocked that we still haven't found hard evidence. Sea Shepherd manages to find the Shonan Maru in that ocean using 3 crappy boats and a toy helicopter, and the Shonan Maru is trying to avoid them. They can't find things that just float.

 

[Fennis]

Malaysian government Official Response

 

[fatness]

The youngest son of the pilot whose flight went down in the Indian Ocean has dismissed speculation his father may have crashed the plane intentionally, a report said today.


Ahmad Seth, son of captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, said he knew what kind of man his father was.

“I’ve read everything online. But I’ve ignored all the speculation. I know my father better,” Seth, 26, was quoted by the New Straits Times as saying.

“We may not be close as he travels so much. But I understand him,” the language student added in his first public remarks.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/son-defends-pilot-of-downed-malaysian-jet

One line of speculation suggests Zaharie might have hijacked the plane as a political act. He has been identified as a supporter of a high-profile Malaysian opposition figure. Ahmad rejected such theories. "We may not be as close as he travels so much. But I understand him," Ahmad said of his father in the interview, which was conducted Tuesday.

Comments from government officials on the investigation so far support the Ahmed's view.

A senior Malaysian government official on Wednesday told CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes that authorities have found nothing in 19 days of investigating the two pilots that leads them to any motive, be it political, suicidal or extremist.

And an ongoing FBI review of the two pilots' hard drives, including one in a flight simulator Zaharie had built at his home, has not turned up a "smoking gun," a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation told CNN. "They have accessed the data," the official said. "There is nothing that's jumping out and grabbing us right now."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

His friends, he said, had been a pillar of strength and lent him their support and encouragement. He also reluctantly admitted that he was the strongest in his family in dealing with the crisis, but did not elaborate on how his other family members were coping, said the report.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/son-defends-pilot-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-20140327

lol at the bolded.

There are horrific stories all the time about snapping and doing unthinkable things in the heat of the moment - including killing their kids or random strangers. Nobody ever "knows" what someone is thinking - not even his own son. His son's statement doesn't disprove the theory the pilot committed suicide/murder as much as his "friend's" report proves he did do it.

Keep digging.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The probabilities right now are more likely that mechanical failure and pilot suicide were not the cause than they were.

What do you propose the other probabilities actually are?

I'd say that it was 80% mechanical failure OR pilot suicide, leaving 20% for other options. Personally, I'm heavier on the mechanical failure, but I think those two are the leading two options by far.

The thing that gets me about mechanical failure is that it happened just at the moment that they were leaving Malaysian airspace? And they don't radio in?

And the thing that gets me about pilot suicide is that apparently he was ok with the family (apparently they did talk to Malaysian police, they didn't leave him the night before, and the interview with the son is reported and all appeared well) and though he was politically interested in this Ibrahim person he was by all accounts not a radical but quite the opposite, so I don't see where the motive's coming from.

The last real option is hijacking. The public doesn't know about the rest of the crew or the passengers. It has pretty much the same foundation as rogue pilot - and the timing of everything makes the most sense for either/both those scenarios - but it just can't be excluded yet because there is little public information on who else was on board.

 

[tjnc09]

The youngest son of the pilot whose flight went down in the Indian Ocean has dismissed speculation his father may have crashed the plane intentionally, a report said today.

Ahmad Seth, son of captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, said he knew what kind of man his father was.

Ive read everything online. But Ive ignored all the speculation. I know my father better, Seth, 26, was quoted by the New Straits Times as saying.

We may not be close as he travels so much. But I understand him, the language student added in his first public remarks.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/son-defends-pilot-of-downed-malaysian-jet

One line of speculation suggests Zaharie might have hijacked the plane as a political act. He has been identified as a supporter of a high-profile Malaysian opposition figure. Ahmad rejected such theories. "We may not be as close as he travels so much. But I understand him," Ahmad said of his father in the interview, which was conducted Tuesday.

Comments from government officials on the investigation so far support the Ahmed's view.

A senior Malaysian government official on Wednesday told CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes that authorities have found nothing in 19 days of investigating the two pilots that leads them to any motive, be it political, suicidal or extremist.

And an ongoing FBI review of the two pilots' hard drives, including one in a flight simulator Zaharie had built at his home, has not turned up a "smoking gun," a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation told CNN. "They have accessed the data," the official said. "There is nothing that's jumping out and grabbing us right now."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

His friends, he said, had been a pillar of strength and lent him their support and encouragement. He also reluctantly admitted that he was the strongest in his family in dealing with the crisis, but did not elaborate on how his other family members were coping, said the report.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/son-defends-pilot-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-20140327

lol at the bolded. There are horrific stories all the time about snapping and doing unthinkable things in the heat of the moment - including killing their kids or random strangers. Nobody ever "knows" what someone is thinking - not even his own son. His son's statement doesn't disprove the theory the pilot committed suicide/murder as much as his "friend's" report proves he did do it.

Keep digging.

You are adamant it wasn't an intentional act by the pilot and tried to disprove that by pasting an article where the son says "we may not be as close as he travels so much"

In short, his son said what you would expect him to say.

Nice try though

 

[CurlyNight]

I don't think we'll ever really know. The chances of finding the recorders and plane are so slim. Even if they find some debris, it will only confirm it's somewhere in the ocean. Why it's there we'll never know imo.

 

[tjnc09]

I think if it was fire/decompression, it would have had to start in the cockpit. That would explain why there was so little time to call in for help and possibly the strange maneuvers of the plane were done in confusion.