Moon angry over perceived racial bias toward Newton (1 Viewer)

[cobalt_27]

When's the last time you read this much amateur psychology in a draft guide?

Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.

Really? Congrats on being able to see into the heart and read the mind of another person.I'm not a fan of Newton. I hope that someone else takes the flyer on Newton before Seattle picks in the last first round, but that's 100% based on what I've seen on the field.

Amen!Sincerely yours, Jay Cutler

 

[road warrior]

Mike Freeman wrote the article. Nuff said..

I know.... shocking, huh?

 

[JamesTheScot]

There's a legitimate point here to the fact that black QBs like Newton tend to get compared to other black QBs.

But that's not what Moon was complaining about. At least not in OP's cited article.Moon straight up said that it was racist that people were considering Newton's time in a spread offense as a concern...supported by Moon's contention that Braford didn't draw that same concern. But that's simply not true. Any QB coming out of the spread gets that flag thrown on him, black or white. Moon should know better, and I have hard time believing he doesn't.

So the point about Bradford comes either from dishonesty or ignorance. To my mind, hurling around accusations of racism based upon a false premise like that is just flat out unacceptable.

 

[JamesTheScot]

When's the last time you read this much amateur psychology in a draft guide?

Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.

Really? Congrats on being able to see into the heart and read the mind of another person.I'm not a fan of Newton. I hope that someone else takes the flyer on Newton before Seattle picks in the last first round, but that's 100% based on what I've seen on the field.

You're right. That does seem like an unusual amount of armchair psychology.But then again, how many black players get evaluated in these draft guides year in and year out?One would think that the racist draft guide writers would have their long knives out for people other than just Cam Newton alone, right? How can they be so disciplined in their character assasination of Newton when there are dozens of other black guys they could go after in every draft class?Or could it be that this unusual criticism of Newton results from <gasp> evaluation of Newton? As someone else posted, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Hooper31]

Moon straight up said that it was racist that people were considering Newton's time in a spread offense as a concern.

No he didn't. Geesh. Let's just make things up while we're at it. Moon specifically has said multiple times that if the criticism was directed at play on the field he would completely understand the critique. Moon directed his commentary at the critique I quoted above. Moon said this gives him the same feeling he has experienced in the past when facing racism himself. Its depressing to watch people trash the dude based on Internet speculation and a tabloid headline. Why are this many sports fans this gullible and unwilling to think for themselves?

 

[delusional]

Heard him on espn talking about this live, moon is a jackass. Plain and simple, reducing himself to playing the race card which works both ways.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Hey, anyone know if there are any Hall of Fame QBs who had to go play in Canada for six years after no NFL teams would take a look at him because he was white?

(Hint: might have something to do with why Moon thinks black QBs need a little extra help.)

 

[cobalt_27]

Hey, anyone know if there are any Hall of Fame QBs who had to go play in Canada for six years after no NFL teams would take a look at him because he was white?

(Hint: might have something to do with why Moon thinks black QBs need a little extra help.)

Well. There is this guy named Joe Theismann. Borderline HOFer, if it weren't for a snapped leg. He played in Canada for, I think 3-4 years.Not sure the rationale of 30 years ago applies today. I'm not sure much of what Moon has to say makes sense, though I can appreciate he has some distorted thought processes (as evidenced by his propensity to drink and drive and allegedly beat up his wife) and the fact that he's living 2010 like it's still the 1970s.

Racism still exists. Let's not act like it doesn't. But, in terms of fairly evaluating Cam Newton, let's not dismiss the fact that he has a very questionable (and recent) history of poor decision-making AND the fact that his skills as a QB leave some open-ended questions as well. His race is the least of his problems.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Hey, anyone know if there are any Hall of Fame QBs who had to go play in Canada for six years after no NFL teams would take a look at him because he was white?

(Hint: might have something to do with why Moon thinks black QBs need a little extra help.)

Well. There is this guy named Joe Theismann. Borderline HOFer, if it weren't for a snapped leg. He played in Canada for, I think 3-4 years.Not sure the rationale of 30 years ago applies today. I'm not sure much of what Moon has to say makes sense, though I can appreciate he has some distorted thought processes (as evidenced by his propensity to drink and drive and allegedly beat up his wife) and the fact that he's living 2010 like it's still the 1970s.

Racism still exists. Let's not act like it doesn't. But, in terms of fairly evaluating Cam Newton, let's not dismiss the fact that he has a very questionable (and recent) history of poor decision-making AND the fact that his skills as a QB leave some open-ended questions as well. His race is the least of his problems.

I'm not really disagreeing with very much of what you say about Moon or Newton here. Just pointing out that if you were Warren Moon you might feel exactly the same way. This isn't an abstract issue for him.Theismann was selected in the 4th round of the draft, but elected to play in Canada instead.

 

[plyka]

Here is an interview Moon had on Seattle radio. It was so disgusting that i wanted to yell at freakin computer when listening to this garbage. I'm going to paraphrase something Moon said, 'if you see anything wrong with Cam Newton, then you either just don't like the guy or are a racist, those are the only 2 options.' He literally said this. I was shocked that the radio guy didn't even question him, he just agreed with Moon regardless of what he said. Then, he said that if you haven't experienced racism for yourself, then what he was explaining wouldn't make any sense to you, it would only make sense to those who have been the victim of racism. This was just funny, people don't have the ability to use REASON to decipher the merits of a situation, Mr moon? give me a freakin break.

Here is the link: http://icestream.bonnint.net/seattle/kiro/2011/04/p_Kevin_Calabro_Show_20110401_3pm.mp3

go to about 3/4 of the way through the radio program.

Basically what Moon is doing is just devaluing the whole thing. He is making light of racism and using it as a tool to attack people he doesn't like. If anything, he is the racist against who he presumes are white people. Using the race card instead of responding to their questions. It's was really sickening. What was even worse was Kevin Calabro, the radio guy who never questioned anything moon said.

 

[Stealthycat]

I don't see other quarterbacks in the draft being criticized by the media or fans

He's a liar ... or Moon is an idiot, one of the two.Proof? QB Mallett is being ran through the ringers ....

 

[No Problem]

I don't see other quarterbacks in the draft being criticized by the media or fans

He's a liar ... or Moon is an idiot, one of the two.Proof? QB Mallett is being ran through the ringers ....

Mallett is the best pure passer in the draft hands down and IMO will be the best pro as well. Mallett has been destroyed by the press and would be in consideration for the #1 pick overall if all the rumor mills and criticism were not thrown his way. (IMO Mallett's actions and attitude warrant the crticism he received for the record)These players earn criticism based on their actions not the color of their skin! I am SO SICK of some african americans playing the race card! This is 2011 not 1911, Get a clue warren moon!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

These players earn criticism based on their actions not the color of their skin! I am SO SICK of some african americans playing the race card! This is 2011 not 1911, Get a clue warren moon!

Again, Cam Newton deserves the criticism he's getting IMO. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.But Warren Moon, Hall of Fame QB, went undrafted in 1978 (I forget - is 1978 before or after 1911?) and had to play six years in Edmunton before NFL teams decided that maybe he could play QB after all. Because he was a black QB.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

There's a legitimate point here to the fact that black QBs like Newton tend to get compared to other black QBs.

But, what's legitimate the point here? Is it somehow racist? When's the last time a white player coming out of college was compared to a black player?

"Racist" probably isn't the right word. My guess is that when seeking a good comparison for Cam Newton, a lot of well-meaning people naturally cycle through candidates like Randall Cunningham, Duante Culpepper, Akili Smith, Donovan McNabb, and Vince Young without even thinking about the fact that John Elway, Cade McNown, JP Losman, Steve Young, and Ben Roethlisberger could be thrown into the mix too. I'm guilty of that, and I try to catch myself when I lapse into this sort of thing. There's not necessarily any hatred or bigotry involved, it's just that it's natural to compare black players to other black players and white players to other white players. But just because it isn't hateful or technically racist doesn't mean it isn't a thought pattern that we shouldn't try to circumvent.

 

[Jason Wood]

When's the last time you read this much amateur psychology in a draft guide?

Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.

Really? Congrats on being able to see into the heart and read the mind of another person.I'm not a fan of Newton. I hope that someone else takes the flyer on Newton before Seattle picks in the last first round, but that's 100% based on what I've seen on the field.

Dave,I agree that's a lot of armchair psychology for a draft guide, but what's that have to do with Moon's contention of racism? I see a LOT of people acting like they're in the mind of Jay Cutler (e.g., he's a quitter, he's not a team leader, he's not accountable, etc...) and tons of other white players, too.

 

[Hooper31]

I agree that's a lot of armchair psychology for a draft guide, but what's that have to do with Moon's contention of racism?

You (as well as the majority posting here) wish to put the attention on Moon, not the writer. How are you imagining that this conversation between the writer and Moon went? Who do you think brought up race in their conversation? Can you not put the pieces of this puzzle together? I believe Moon was a pawn that got played by the writer. If you disagree, then we disagree.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

These players earn criticism based on their actions not the color of their skin! I am SO SICK of some african americans playing the race card! This is 2011 not 1911, Get a clue warren moon!

Again, Cam Newton deserves the criticism he's getting IMO. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.But Warren Moon, Hall of Fame QB, went undrafted in 1978 (I forget - is 1978 before or after 1911?) and had to play six years in Edmunton before NFL teams decided that maybe he could play QB after all. Because he was a black QB.

I'm not saying racism was irrelevant in 1978 or irrelevant today, but let's keep the '78 Moon thing in perspective. Doug Williams was drafted in the first round of the NFL draft in 1978. Again, I'm not saying Williams was the poster child for fair treatment, but the "Moon was undrafted" thing is a bit out of context. Kurt Warner was undrafted too.

 

[VTjkru]

I agree that's a lot of armchair psychology for a draft guide, but what's that have to do with Moon's contention of racism?

You (as well as the majority posting here) wish to put the attention on Moon, not the writer. How are you imagining that this conversation between the writer and Moon went? Who do you think brought up race in their conversation? Can you not put the pieces of this puzzle together? I believe Moon was a pawn that got played by the writer. If you disagree, then we disagree.

Id agree with you if Moon wasnt going on a media tour to talk up his comments. It'd be a lot different if he did one interview to clarify and declined any further comments.

 

[Hooper31]

Id agree with you if Moon wasnt going on a media tour to talk up his comments. It'd be a lot different if he did one interview to clarify and declined any further comments.

What does this mean when you say "going on a media tour"? Are you under the impression that his agent is calling up ESPN, Foxsports, CBS, etc and asking for time on TV?I know of one specific interview that Moon granted to a writer to clarify his remarks. That interview was given to Mike Sando of ESPN. You can read that at this link.

 

[Lucky Lefty]

Goodness people... Why do you lets this get to ya'll? The race card is the easiest card to play... "You don't like me, it must because I'm black"... Haha... Its just a man that had a camera in front of him voicing his opinion. Just let it go and move on...

 

[VTjkru]

Id agree with you if Moon wasnt going on a media tour to talk up his comments. It'd be a lot different if he did one interview to clarify and declined any further comments.

What does this mean when you say "going on a media tour"? Are you under the impression that his agent is calling up ESPN, Foxsports, CBS, etc and asking for time on TV?I know of one specific interview that Moon granted to a writer to clarify his remarks. That interview was given to Mike Sando of ESPN. You can read that at this link.

I doubt his agent is calling up those places, but I bet those places are calling up Moon to specifically talk about those comments and Moon can definitely decline the opportunity knowing that's what the discussion is going to be on. From a quick Google search, Moon has been on these shows to talk about his remarks (and this is a quick cursory glance):- NFL Total Access

- KTAR in Phoenix

- 2 Live Stews 790 The Zone

- The Kevin Calabro Show that was posted above

And as others have stated, he was on a couple of ESPN shows yesterday doing his rounds.

 

[squistion]

These players earn criticism based on their actions not the color of their skin! I am SO SICK of some african americans playing the race card! This is 2011 not 1911, Get a clue warren moon!

Again, Cam Newton deserves the criticism he's getting IMO. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.But Warren Moon, Hall of Fame QB, went undrafted in 1978 (I forget - is 1978 before or after 1911?) and had to play six years in Edmunton before NFL teams decided that maybe he could play QB after all. Because he was a black QB.

I'm not saying racism was irrelevant in 1978 or irrelevant today, but let's keep the '78 Moon thing in perspective. Doug Williams was drafted in the first round of the NFL draft in 1978. Again, I'm not saying Williams was the poster child for fair treatment, but the "Moon was undrafted" thing is a bit out of context. Kurt Warner was undrafted too.

Speaking of irrelevant, I don't know what Kurt Warner has to do with a discussion of perceived racism in NFL of years past. Moon was a Rose Bowl MVP, and in retrospect it is a bit surprising that he went undrafted - not so much with a player from the University of Northern Iowa who was under the radar 16 years later.Although you noted that Doug Williams was not a poster child for fair treatment, one can't dispute that (for whatever reason) he was given second class treatment by the Bucs. Perhaps Culverhouse was just a cheapskate, although an alternate explanation is that Williams was never paid what he was worth due to some sort of racial bias. Per Wiki.

However, during his tenure in Tampa, Williams was only paid $120,000 a year—far and away the lowest salary for a starting quarterback in the league, and behind 12 backups. After the 1982 season, Williams asked for a $600,000 contract. Bucs owner Hugh Culverhouse refused to budge from his initial offer of $400,000 despite protests from coach John McKay. While Culverhouse's offer was still more than triple Williams' previous salary, he would have still been among the lowest-paid starters in the league. Feeling that Culverhouse wasn't paying him what a starter should earn, Williams bolted to the upstart United States Football League.

Link

 

[notdarkyet]

We have a black President, guess we are saving all the racism for the black athlete. Maybe, just maybe there are character question marks on him for his dad brokering $100k+ deals for his college. Maybe, just maybe there are performance question marks based on his not playing in a pro style offense. Maybe, just maybe there are performance question marks based on his mediocre combine performance. Maybe, just maybe there are character question marks based on his attitude of having already arrived as a superstar before playing a single snap in the NFL. Maybe, just maybe there are historical question marks of a QB being drafted high that had just a single great season at the collegiate level.Nah. It's all because of the pigment of his skin. Of course.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

"and sometimes it's a big brown ****" /RIP George Carlin.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Moon straight up said that it was racist that people were considering Newton's time in a spread offense as a concern.

No he didn't. Geesh. Let's just make things up while we're at it. Moon specifically has said multiple times that if the criticism was directed at play on the field he would completely understand the critique. Moon directed his commentary at the critique I quoted above. Moon said this gives him the same feeling he has experienced in the past when facing racism himself. Its depressing to watch people trash the dude based on Internet speculation and a tabloid headline. Why are this many sports fans this gullible and unwilling to think for themselves?

He didn't? I'm just making that up?Did you even read the article?

Moon added: "The thing that makes me laugh is the question of can he [Newton] come out of the spread offense? Can he run a pro offense? Colt McCoy came out of the spread offense and very few people raised that issue about him. So did Sam Bradford. Same thing. Very few questions asking if Bradford could run a pro offense. Some of these questions about Cam are more about his intellect. It's blatant racism, some of it.

It's one thing to agree with him, but it's another to pretend he didn't say what he so obviously did.

 

[Hooper31]

It's one thing to agree with him, but it's another to pretend he didn't say what he so obviously did.

Well, ####. No, I didn't read that sentence in any of the articles. If it was there, I am in the wrong. What I read was "racial overtones".

 

[Holy Schneikes]

These players earn criticism based on their actions not the color of their skin! I am SO SICK of some african americans playing the race card! This is 2011 not 1911, Get a clue warren moon!

Again, Cam Newton deserves the criticism he's getting IMO. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.But Warren Moon, Hall of Fame QB, went undrafted in 1978 (I forget - is 1978 before or after 1911?) and had to play six years in Edmunton before NFL teams decided that maybe he could play QB after all. Because he was a black QB.

I'm not saying racism was irrelevant in 1978 or irrelevant today, but let's keep the '78 Moon thing in perspective. Doug Williams was drafted in the first round of the NFL draft in 1978. Again, I'm not saying Williams was the poster child for fair treatment, but the "Moon was undrafted" thing is a bit out of context. Kurt Warner was undrafted too.

Speaking of irrelevant, I don't know what Kurt Warner has to do with a discussion of perceived racism in NFL of years past. Moon was a Rose Bowl MVP, and in retrospect it is a bit surprising that he went undrafted - not so much with a player from the University of Northern Iowa who was under the radar 16 years later.Although you noted that Doug Williams was not a poster child for fair treatment, one can't dispute that (for whatever reason) he was given second class treatment by the Bucs. Perhaps Culverhouse was just a cheapskate, although an alternate explanation is that Williams was never paid what he was worth due to some sort of racial bias. Per Wiki.

However, during his tenure in Tampa, Williams was only paid $120,000 a year—far and away the lowest salary for a starting quarterback in the league, and behind 12 backups. After the 1982 season, Williams asked for a $600,000 contract. Bucs owner Hugh Culverhouse refused to budge from his initial offer of $400,000 despite protests from coach John McKay. While Culverhouse's offer was still more than triple Williams' previous salary, he would have still been among the lowest-paid starters in the league. Feeling that Culverhouse wasn't paying him what a starter should earn, Williams bolted to the upstart United States Football League.

Link

The Kurt Warner point is simple. Sometimes really good QBs go undrafted. That's all. And I've already stated that my point is not that racism isn't a factor in all of this, particularly back in '78.My point is simply that to imply Moon went undrafted SOLELY because he is black is a tough pill to swallow considering a black QB was drafted in the first round that same year. At the very least we can surmise that if Tampa thought he was as good or better than Doug Williams, he not only would have been drafted, he'd have been a first rounder no matter what color he was.

If one wants to make a case for Moon having experienced a lot of racism, it's not a hard case to make. Which is exactly why one shouldn't be lazy about it and imply his color was the only thing preventing him from being drafted.

 

[kentric]

When's the last time you read this much amateur psychology in a draft guide?

Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.

Really? Congrats on being able to see into the heart and read the mind of another person.I'm not a fan of Newton. I hope that someone else takes the flyer on Newton before Seattle picks in the last first round, but that's 100% based on what I've seen on the field.

Have you seen other draft reports? The point you are making would carry more weight (for me at least) if this subject was a much greater focus in his report than for other top QBs in the draft. If other QBs each had a paragraph on their "make-up" and they all hold the same tone (emphasis on potential risks), then I wouldn't consider this a valid argument.