More Bad News For Vick - Co Defendents To Plea (1 Viewer)

[mad sweeney]

Question for anyone that knows...maybe if Wimer is around he can answer. If the remaining 3, Vick Peace and Phillips, reach plea agreements before going to trial and before more charges are brought up, can they still be charged with more crimes? Like tax evasion? There's the talk of a superseding indictment. If they all plea out does that end all their federal legal problems? I say fed because the state/locals can still go after them.

The last bit of the article posted above says:

A source close to the investigation told ESPN that Vick has until Friday to make up his mind whether to accept a plea agreement. Otherwise a superseding indictment will be filed and Vick will face at least two more federal dogfighting charges.

I think they have him over the barrel with the threat of even more than what he's up against now. Hard to imagine with all the publicity that they'd be too easy on him with a deal, but in his eyes maybe pleaing down to 2-3 years is better than the 5+ he's up against before they add the "at least 2 more" charges.

 

[CravenM]

And the State of Virginia hasn't even sunk their teeth into him yet!

 

[MelvinTScupper]

most of this is playing just as scripted. The Feds want a plea, because it comes with a conviction. The NFL will likely give him a harsher penalty than they gave Tank Johnson, and Vick will serve his time during the offseason, just like other NFL stars. The Falcons will have what they need to cut him, and he will play for someone else next year, or in the best of scenarios for Vick late this year.

 

[Tau837]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.

And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

 

[3C's]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

Yeah, those two situations are exactly the same.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

Yeah, those two situations are exactly the same.

I know. Both had federal indictments, interstate problems, plea deals, and crimes where no innocent people were affected.Slam dunk.

 

[Mcnabbfan]

Anyone aware of if there is any cap relief for this type of situation. I don't think there is, and I know Atlanta can recover some of the signing bonus (pro rated portion) but they really should get cap relief if it becomes determined he can no longer play.

I do not have a link. This is what I heard discussed on Sirius NFL Radio. Several weeks ago Pat Kirwin was discussing cap ramifications and he stated that if Vick were released by the Falcons before the opening game of the season, they would gain $6.2 million of cap relief that could be used to sign additional players. Next year they would be it with a cap charge of $14 plus million and then be done with Vick's contract. Kirwin also stated that with the cap rising next year that cap hit would not hurt as much. Teams like Houston year in and year out carry over $20 million plus a year in dead money. Sorry I do not have a link to confirm this.

 

[3C's]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

Yeah, those two situations are exactly the same.

I know. Both had federal indictments, interstate problems, plea deals, and crimes where no innocent people were affected.Slam dunk.

I won't even bother. You keep on believing what you believe. Vick won't play in the NFL this year. He won't ever play for the Falcons again. No team will touch him next year. He may never play in the NFL again.

 

[freeannyong]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

If what is reported is true, then he will have no problems playing. I'm talking about the fact that the only thing Vick did was finance it and gamble on it. That he had nothing to do with the dogs.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Pasq just said on 11pm SPortscenter that Vick's looking at years of prison, not months.

 

[mad sweeney]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

If what is reported is true, then he will have no problems playing. I'm talking about the fact that the only thing Vick did was finance it and gamble on it. That he had nothing to do with the dogs.

He's being charged with conspiracy, which means that all parties involved are equally responsible for all aspects, whether they personally took part in individual sectors of the crime. If he financed it, he's as culpable as the dog executioners.

 

[3C's]

Pasq just said on 11pm SPortscenter that Vick's looking at years of prison, not months.

Probably true if they bring more charges and get a conviction. If he pleas out and no more charges are brought it'll be months.

 

[Tau837]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

If what is reported is true, then he will have no problems playing. I'm talking about the fact that the only thing Vick did was finance it and gamble on it. That he had nothing to do with the dogs.

:naive:

 

[DLeo]

The "2 Live Stews" were on ESPN First Take this morning and mentioned this. I actually think this is good for Vick.

No way. If this were true it would not be happening.

 

[DLeo]

ESPN Roger Cossack just said he expects Vicks to get YEARS in jail now and not months...hmmmm looks like Vick will get a good time to think about waht he has done...behind bars right where he belongs!

 

[DLeo]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

of course they want Vick..this is about making an example out of a person so others will stop doing this type of thing to dogs. Mike Vick will get others much more worried than Quintin Phillips would. This is about trying to get others to stop what they are doing. Putting Vick in jail for a few eyars will make a bigger impression on others than putting Phillips and those others waway..dont you think? I may be unfair to Vick sure but this stuff has to stop and locking him up is what will help make that happen quicker.

 

[Hugonel]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?

It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?

J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

Sorry, I value loyalty above most traits. But it doesn't involve taking an oath to tell the truth and then committing perjury. If they knew they would have to testify against him at trial they may indeed have done him a favor by getting the plea deals over early so as to convince him to take a plea and reduced sentence.

 

[bostonfred]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

of course they want Vick..this is about making an example out of a person so others will stop doing this type of thing to dogs. Mike Vick will get others much more worried than Quintin Phillips would. This is about trying to get others to stop what they are doing. Putting Vick in jail for a few eyars will make a bigger impression on others than putting Phillips and those others waway..dont you think? I may be unfair to Vick sure but this stuff has to stop and locking him up is what will help make that happen quicker.

This is not the intent of the US criminal justice system.

 

[DLeo]

Question for anyone that knows...maybe if Wimer is around he can answer. If the remaining 3, Vick Peace and Phillips, reach plea agreements before going to trial and before more charges are brought up, can they still be charged with more crimes? Like tax evasion? There's the talk of a superseding indictment. If they all plea out does that end all their federal legal problems? I say fed because the state/locals can still go after them.

The last bit of the article posted above says:

A source close to the investigation told ESPN that Vick has until Friday to make up his mind whether to accept a plea agreement. Otherwise a superseding indictment will be filed and Vick will face at least two more federal dogfighting charges.

I think they have him over the barrel with the threat of even more than what he's up against now. Hard to imagine with all the publicity that they'd be too easy on him with a deal, but in his eyes maybe pleaing down to 2-3 years is better than the 5+ he's up against before they add the "at least 2 more" charges.

and likely how this will end.

 

[DLeo]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

Yeah, those two situations are exactly the same.

I know. Both had federal indictments, interstate problems, plea deals, and crimes where no innocent people were affected.Slam dunk.

No not even close..come on when you start killing dogs you go right into the heart of anyone who has a pet in this country...these two situations are like night and day. I am not sure in the NFL could keep Vick from playing after he serves his time though?

 

[Hugonel]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?

It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?

J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

of course they want Vick..this is about making an example out of a person so others will stop doing this type of thing to dogs. Mike Vick will get others much more worried than Quintin Phillips would. This is about trying to get others to stop what they are doing. Putting Vick in jail for a few eyars will make a bigger impression on others than putting Phillips and those others waway..dont you think? I may be unfair to Vick sure but this stuff has to stop and locking him up is what will help make that happen quicker.

This is not the intent of the US criminal justice system.

Actually, it is. Punishment is one aspect, but deterence is perhaps even more important.

 

[DLeo]

PFTs on new Vick news....

CLEARLY, VICK DID IT

As the sports world continues to get its arms around Monday's surprising news that Mike Vick's two remaining co-defendants are going to plead guilty to charges that they conspired with Vick to maintain an interstate gambling enterprise and an interstate dog-fighting operation, we think it's time to apply some common sense to the current state of affairs.

Throw the presumption of innocence out the window, folks. Clearly, Vick is factually guilty of the charges filed against him. Why else would each of the three men with whom he allegedly conspired admit that there was a conspiracy?

Each of the three men will go to jail. The only benefit that they'll derive from their decision to 'fess up is that they'll avoid being charged with the underlying crimes, which in the case of the interstate gambling enterprise carries a far stiffer maximum penalty.

And now Vick must ask himself whether he wants to take advantage of that same benefit. He can plead guilty to conspiracy charges and hope for the best when it comes to sentencing, or he can roll the dice and hope that his lawyer can discredit seven witnesses (and counting), each of whom will presumably testify that Vick was involved in the gambling and dog-fighting venture.

The fact that Vick is reportedly contemplating his options reinforces our belief that Vick is by no means innocent. Innocent men don't ponder pleading guilty; they proclaim their innocence in clear, certain terms and they prepare to prove their innocence in court.

Per ESPN, if Vick doesn't plead guilty to the conspiracy charges by Friday, a new indictment with at least two new dog fighting charges will be filed. We believe that the new indictment will likely also include a count based on Title 18, Section 1952 of the U.S. Code, which is titled "Interstate or foreign trade or travel in aid of racketeering enterprises," and which carries a maximum penalty is 20 years behind bars.

It is a tremendous dilemma for Vick. The man who has spent his life escaping with ease from difficult situations is now backed into a corner. One option means certain imprisonment for a relatively short period of time. The other option means a strong likelihood, but not a certainty, of an even longer period behind bars.

Vick might be inclined not to plead guilty because to do so would likely end his NFL career permanently, but even an acquittal at this point won't be enough to get Vick back inside a shirt with the shield at the bottom of the collar. We've said all along that Vick will have a chance at returning to the NFL only if there is Duke lacrosse-style evidence that fully exonerates him. With Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips pleading guilty as charged, that's simply not going to happen.

So we think Vick's best bet is to plead guilty, bid farewell to the NFL, do his time quickly and quietly, and then return to the CFL or the UFL or whatever other FL is out there when he gets out.

And, if all else fails, there's always pro wrestling.

UPDATE: ESPN's Kelly Naqi just said on SportsCenter that if Vick doesn't plead guilty to pending charges by Friday he'll face at least two new counts for "felony dog fighting." But dog fighting didn't become a felony under federal law until a couple of weeks after the initial search of Vick's property in Virginia. Under federal law, it was a misdemeanor at the time Vick was allegedly engaged in it. And ESPN continues to ignore the gambling aspect of these charges.

now ok I understand alot of this but why would Vick be all done in the NFL forever if he pleads out of this case? Would Godell hand out a lifetime ban and if so for what reasons that would hold up in court? What am i missing here that what mean the end of Vick ever playing NFL football again? I am all for that decision but if he did his 2-3 years in jail why would he not be able to play in his profession again?

 

[3C's]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

Yeah, those two situations are exactly the same.

I know. Both had federal indictments, interstate problems, plea deals, and crimes where no innocent people were affected.Slam dunk.

No not even close..come on when you start killing dogs you go right into the heart of anyone who has a pet in this country...these two situations are like night and day. I am not sure in the NFL could keep Vick from playing after he serves his time though?

The NFL could if they go for a lifetime ban. The owners could if they decide that bringing in a guy like this isn't worth the headaches.

 

[Limecuda]

If and when he gets out of jail, NAFTA will be in full effect as Ron Mexico become Ron Canada in the CFL. Lawrence Philips, Ricky Williams, so why not Micheal Vick.

 

[Stunt Rock]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

of course they want Vick..this is about making an example out of a person so others will stop doing this type of thing to dogs. Mike Vick will get others much more worried than Quintin Phillips would. This is about trying to get others to stop what they are doing. Putting Vick in jail for a few eyars will make a bigger impression on others than putting Phillips and those others waway..dont you think? I may be unfair to Vick sure but this stuff has to stop and locking him up is what will help make that happen quicker.

This is not the intent of the US criminal justice system.

I'm honestly convinced that you've learned to type with your butt because you're just pulling stuff out of it now.

 

[Bri]

Well I was thinking Vick will be offerred a deal too and...there's a thread on that this morning already.

I don't want him to.

I want to know if he's the worst investor in the free world and truly did have little to do with this but his $.

I want to know details! not allegations but facts.

From what I gatherred from Joe B's initial post and what they said on TV about the previous pleas- it sounds like "Did you do this, this, this, and that? OK sign here then."

I'll feel cheated then. I want him, at the least, to sweat when he allocutes.

I'm fearful he gets the same relative "walk" that the "Dealing with dogs" guy got. If so, it better get some congressmen(or their flunkies) to write some harsher laws/penalties for abusing animals. Gritting my teeth he doesn't get off easy here

 

[BusMan]

There are a number of reasons Vick would be conflicted over a plea bargain:

1) Admitting guilt means admitting to not only the crime as charged, but also the cover-up and the lies. How many people did he lie to? How about lying straight to Goodell's face at the draft?

2) Despite whatever positive hit to his street rep might result from a stint in jail, I'm certain he doesn't want to get sent to the big house.

3) He likely is used to getting his own way, to staying out of trouble not through good behavior, but through his status, connections, and money.

Most importantly...

4) If his legal team can manage to get just one juror on board who either thinks this might be a racially motivated case, or are absolutely convinced that Vick couldn't have been involved in something like this, they have a legitimate shot at a hung jury.

I'm no legal expert though, so feel free to shoot down my ideas if they're totally off base.

 

[Tom Servo]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?

It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?

J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

of course they want Vick..this is about making an example out of a person so others will stop doing this type of thing to dogs. Mike Vick will get others much more worried than Quintin Phillips would. This is about trying to get others to stop what they are doing. Putting Vick in jail for a few eyars will make a bigger impression on others than putting Phillips and those others waway..dont you think? I may be unfair to Vick sure but this stuff has to stop and locking him up is what will help make that happen quicker.

This is not the intent of the US criminal justice system.

Actually, it is. Punishment is one aspect, but deterence is perhaps even more important.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

The feds are interested in nailing everyone.And Mike Vick ruined his own life.

 

[jgb95]

What are you talking about bcr8f???

If he supplied the cash for the operation. Do you think he didn't know what the money was going for. Come on now!

This kid is an absolute scumbag and should be locked up and the key thrown away.

I love the fact that all his money can't buy his way out of this one.

Finally some justice in this world!!!!!!

First time I'm actually rooting for the US GOV!!!!

You've never rooted for the U.S. Government before? That's a strange position to take.

When it comes to athlete's in trouble I should have said. And not the GOV per sey just the law in general I'll say.Sorry for the confusion

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

What are you talking about bcr8f???

If he supplied the cash for the operation. Do you think he didn't know what the money was going for. Come on now!

This kid is an absolute scumbag and should be locked up and the key thrown away.

I love the fact that all his money can't buy his way out of this one.

Finally some justice in this world!!!!!!

First time I'm actually rooting for the US GOV!!!!

You've never rooted for the U.S. Government before? That's a strange position to take.

When it comes to athlete's in trouble I should have said. And not the GOV per sey just the law in general I'll say.Sorry for the confusion

I don't know. I was pretty much with the law in that whole Rae Carruth thing.

 

[j3r3m3y]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

Do you think Vick would take the rap for them if he could? If you can't trust guys you participate in illegal gambling and dog fighting enterprises with, who can you trust in this crazy mixed up world?And you are wrong. If Michael Vick is convicted, Michael Vick ruined his life.

 

[marshall88]

I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of Vick's co-defendants. You don't know their situations, their level of cupability, their family life, nor the extent of their relationship with Vick. They could have families that depend on them not being in jail, and shaving 10 years off your sentence will make a big difference in your children's lives. They could be far less culpable than Vick and unwilling to risk the immense prison sentence that goes along with being Vick's co-conspirator. Also, they probably don't have access to a sophisticated legal defense team and may even be following their lawyer's advice in taking the plea bargain. I also have no doubt that Vick's defense team wouldn't hesitate to throw each of these guys under the bus in order to defend Vick -- and I also believe that Vick wouldn't stop them from doing so.You profess a mafia code of ethics that is popular in the movies and television, but reality is far different. I'm not advocating that one should always "flip" on a friend when it is to that person's benefit, but when it rises to the level of going to prison (and in this case, a significant amount of prison time), I think the reality is that every person must do what is in the best interest of their children, wife and other family -- and a true friend would understand.

 

[twistd]

Regarding Vick's ties to Richmond, he grew up in Newport News, which is approximately 90 miles east of Richmond. I agree that he may get some sympathy, but it's not like he is being tried in his hometown.And at those who are throwing out scenarios that have Vick playing somewhere next year. It's not gonna happen.

Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to using a cell phone to set up a coke deal. He'll play.

People don't come out and protest when you use a cellphone to set up a coke deal. The only thing worse that Vick could have done was molesting children. And the assumption is that Vick pleads and gets a slap on the wrist. That ain't going to happen. He is facing serious time, and pleading will knock it down, but not by a lot.

 

[bostonfred]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

The feds are interested in nailing everyone.And Mike Vick ruined his own life.

If the feds are going after them all equally, I'm fine with it. If they don't offer Vick the same kind of deal, then I'm not fine with it. If the issue is just that Vick hasn't agreed to the deal, and the other guys have, then I don't have a problem with it. If the issue is that the feds are offering a sweetheart deal to his friends to nail Vick because they are under political pressure in a high profile case, and they want to give a big sentence to the famous guy as a deterrent, then no, I'm not fine with it. And at first blush, that's a real concern I have. I've already conceded that "they ruined his life" is a poor phrasing. I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

 

[rascal]

Or it could be that he was the leader.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

The feds are interested in nailing everyone.And Mike Vick ruined his own life.

If the feds are going after them all equally, I'm fine with it. If they don't offer Vick the same kind of deal, then I'm not fine with it. If the issue is just that Vick hasn't agreed to the deal, and the other guys have, then I don't have a problem with it. If the issue is that the feds are offering a sweetheart deal to his friends to nail Vick because they are under political pressure in a high profile case, and they want to give a big sentence to the famous guy as a deterrent, then no, I'm not fine with it. And at first blush, that's a real concern I have. I've already conceded that "they ruined his life" is a poor phrasing. I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

I'd imagine it's more a matter of offering deals to underlings to roll over on the guy running and funding a multi-state operation.

 

[cobalt_27]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

The feds are interested in nailing everyone.And Mike Vick ruined his own life.

If the feds are going after them all equally, I'm fine with it. If they don't offer Vick the same kind of deal, then I'm not fine with it. If the issue is just that Vick hasn't agreed to the deal, and the other guys have, then I don't have a problem with it. If the issue is that the feds are offering a sweetheart deal to his friends to nail Vick because they are under political pressure in a high profile case, and they want to give a big sentence to the famous guy as a deterrent, then no, I'm not fine with it. And at first blush, that's a real concern I have. I've already conceded that "they ruined his life" is a poor phrasing. I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

And, how would you feel if you found out they offered Vick a pretty sweet deal (compared to the one he gets now) and he refused?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.

At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

If he's due to get more than 1 1/2 years in prison, Vick won't take the deal. More than 2 years out of football would be a death knell for him. He'll have to take his chances with a trial if it comes down to that.

 

[j3r3m3y]

The feds shouldn't want Vick convicted any more than they want the rest of the defendants, but they're plea bargaining with the least famous ones. That's just wrong.

Hi fred,But we don't know that they aren't negotiating with the Vick team do we?It could be that the other guys are the only guys taking the deals. Right?J

Yes, that's a fair statement. We don't know what the deals are, either, so maybe Vick's lawyer thinks he can do better. Or maybe he thought so until his co-defendents flipped. But if you look at the motivation and who took the deals, it sure does seem like the feds are more interested in nailing Vick than in making sure justice is served. I do know this, though - the guys who flipped are the lowest level of dirtbag out there, because even if you could somehow rationalize the dog thing as being "just dogs", they flipped on their friend. If Vick goes to prison, I wouldn't blame him for spending a hundred grand or so making sure that the things he doesn't want happening to him DO happen to those guys, because they've ruined his life.

The feds are interested in nailing everyone.And Mike Vick ruined his own life.

If the feds are going after them all equally, I'm fine with it. If they don't offer Vick the same kind of deal, then I'm not fine with it. If the issue is just that Vick hasn't agreed to the deal, and the other guys have, then I don't have a problem with it. If the issue is that the feds are offering a sweetheart deal to his friends to nail Vick because they are under political pressure in a high profile case, and they want to give a big sentence to the famous guy as a deterrent, then no, I'm not fine with it. And at first blush, that's a real concern I have. I've already conceded that "they ruined his life" is a poor phrasing. I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

You don't understand how our legal system works. For example I remember reading about a murder trial where dude hired someone else to find someone to kill his ex-wife. The guy found some crack head and paid him. The crack head killed someone else in the car and left the ex-wife paralyzed.They gave the trigger man and the middle man a full walk to get the ex-husband. In a perfect system all three would be in jail. In reality the guy at the top of the chain is who they often go after and they usually have to compromise to get there.I don't think they want to give him the big sentence because he is famous, but because he was the ring leader. His fame is just a bonus as it will be higher profile and demonstrate that we as a society think dog fighting is a big deal.

I've already conceded that "they ruined his life" is a poor phrasing. I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

Maybe Vick shouldn't have put his future in the hands of criminals.

 

[Christo]

I still think the dudes that flipped on him are evil, and even moreso than Vick.

Wow

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

Do you know of any previous cases of dogfighting and what the sentences were?I'm curious as i can't imagine someone getting 4 years for that kind of crime.If he takes a plea i'd bet it's for under 1 year, most likely 6 months or something.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

Do you know of any previous cases of dogfighting and what the sentences were?I'm curious as i can't imagine someone getting 4 years for that kind of crime.If he takes a plea i'd bet it's for under 1 year, most likely 6 months or something.

As I understand it this is the first federal prosecution under new heftier laws. Previously it was a misdemeanor if I recall correctly.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

Do you know of any previous cases of dogfighting and what the sentences were?I'm curious as i can't imagine someone getting 4 years for that kind of crime.If he takes a plea i'd bet it's for under 1 year, most likely 6 months or something.

As I understand it this is the first federal prosecution under new heftier laws. Previously it was a misdemeanor if I recall correctly.

Hmmm, so not much precedence in this case.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

Do you know of any previous cases of dogfighting and what the sentences were?I'm curious as i can't imagine someone getting 4 years for that kind of crime.If he takes a plea i'd bet it's for under 1 year, most likely 6 months or something.

As I understand it this is the first federal prosecution under new heftier laws. Previously it was a misdemeanor if I recall correctly.

It's also not just dogfighting. It's a lot more than that, although I don't have a copy of the indictment handy.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Is there any word on the length of the prison sentence in the plea? I have a hard time seeing why it would be less than 4 years. I admittedly haven't followed this story much, but I thought he was looking at at least one count that led to a six year prison sentence, and the case was pretty strong for the government. I don't see why the government would offer much of a plea, or why people are saying Vick will be playing next year.At this point, it seems very, very likely that Vick will be spending Christmas '08 in prison, and possibly several more after that.

Do you know of any previous cases of dogfighting and what the sentences were?I'm curious as i can't imagine someone getting 4 years for that kind of crime.If he takes a plea i'd bet it's for under 1 year, most likely 6 months or something.

As I understand it this is the first federal prosecution under new heftier laws. Previously it was a misdemeanor if I recall correctly.

It's also not just dogfighting. It's a lot more than that, although I don't have a copy of the indictment handy.

True intrastate gambling among others, I think they are trying to go RICO on him in which case he is done.

 

[Diabolic]

A single count of the interstate commerce / conspiracy charge brought against Vick carries a 5 year sentence.

Speculation: I don't believe they are not offering Vick a reduction in sentencing or anything that he is being charged with. At this point, they are about 99.99% likely to get a conviction if this goes to trial. They are offering NOT to bring further charges, that can impose about 20+ extra years of jail time (as was previously stated).

Facts: Vick is guilty. Vick is going to jail, under a sentence of several years. Vick will never, ever, ever, ever play in the NFL again. Ever.

Ever.

 

[Jetdoc]

A single count of the interstate commerce / conspiracy charge brought against Vick carries a 5 year sentence. Facts: Vick is guilty. Vick is going to jail, under a sentence of several years. Vick will never, ever, ever, ever play in the NFL again. Ever.

If you are correct, then he could be out of jail in as early as two years with good behavior.I don't think he would be "over the hill" at that point... :dunno: