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I think that is largely a reputation earned > 9 years ago. Manning has lost exactly one playoff game with a QB rating of < 90 since 2004.Over that same time-frame, Brady has lost 5 playoff games with a QB rating of < 90. anyone remember Brady throwing 3 picks against Baltimore in 2009? How about 2 picks vs Baltimore last year (even though NE won)?Manning's post-season record is on par with other contemporary QB's, he just has a bad reputation from some struggles early in his career vs NE.
He has also won 5 playoff games since 2004 with a rating of less than 90. Three of the four years after the super bowl title he lost his playoff opener as well. I think it is a fair criticism to say he has not been a great playoff performer.
Brady has won three playoff games with a QB rating of 90 or less over that time span and lost in the opening rounds twice in the past three years.
I'll eat crow, for sure. Never said AD is anything less than an absolute monster, he is, just think they lose because of Ponder and the coaching somewhere along the way. Probably this weekend.Will you be saying this still when the Vikings are NFC Champions?AD can beat any team in the league and every player on the Vikings plays their best for AD. This is a team that loves to be overlooked and under-rated. The Vikings thrive off of that so please continue.'MAC_32 said:You're both right, and wrong. 2 best teams are in the AFC, but NFC is better, and anyone in the NFC except for Minnesota could beat New England or Denver in the big show.'shredhead said:'FunkyPlutos said:The NFC doesn't have an answer to the winner of the New England/Denver AFC Championship game.
The issue is that the toughest games for the Broncos were early in the season. Many folks want to discount those as being "early in the season." But they still want to consider those games and apply them to their strength of schedule. The issue many other people have is with their competition in their long winning streak. Had the Broncos played the Falcons / Pats / Texans later in the season and still lost, I doubt they would have as many backers and supporters as they do now. Similarly, people will point to the Pats loss to ARI as an example of their level of play while ignoring the Broncos early season losses.For comparison's sake, let's look at the playoff teams in all the games since the Broncos last lost:
Team W L T PtDif TODif SOSNE 9 2 0 174 15 86-88-2SEA 8 3 0 151 14 89-84-3DEN 11 0 0 136 6 68-108GB 9 2 0 96 8 79-96-1CIN 7 4 0 75 8 78-98ATL 8 3 0 65 3 69-107WAS 8 3 0 45 7 75-101SFO 7 3 1 43 4 91-83-2IND 9 2 0 15 -4 74-102BAL 6 5 0 13 3 94-82HOU 7 4 0 9 4 93-83MIN 6 5 0 -10 -2 98-77-1
What does Brady have to do with Manning? Manning has a pretty large body of work to judge him by on his own and it is fair to say that he's come up small in playoffs often.
The Patriots seriously lose one of those games every year since 2007. I am not sure anyone can explain it.
It's always good when guys are willing to bump their own threads and eat crow.
Thing is, and as 'fail' as that pass was, it shouldn't have gotten there. Corner play was woeful, we were out coached, had turnovers and a TON of stupid penalties. Yeah, we pay Peyton a TON of money to know what to do there, but there's more to it than that.
Almost nobody likes the Falcons. If anything they are underrated.
Manning was brought in to do what Tebow couldn't. If tebow would of threw that INT Broncos fans would be saying he sucked.
No doubt there are a lot of factors that put the Broncos in that position, but that single play directly led to the loss.
Its funny how the 3 Manning turnovers resulted in 17 points. (2 TDs in regulation and 1 GW GF in overtime)44% of the Ravens points came because Manning turned over the ball and each of those turnovers were on the Broncos side of the field giving the Ravens a short field to work with to score. I think he is great during the season but when it comes down to the post-season and playing the big game I will put money down each time he falls short.
Nice post.
Come on. One of those Manning "turnovers" was a pass that hit Eric Decker right in the hands, which Decker then tipped to Baltimore. Baltimore's TD to end the first half came after a missed field goal brought on by a wide open DT dropping a pass that hit him right in the hands- if he gets that, maybe it's 21-7 at the half instead of 14-14. That's Peyton's problem- if only he could somehow stop hitting his receivers in the hands with the football, maybe he'd win some more games in the playoffs. Also, no mention of Manning getting the ball at the 12 and marching 88 yards in 10 plays for the go-ahead score? If Rahim Moore gets back on defense, Manning gets an 80+ yard playoff game-winning drive added to his resume. But Moore didn't get back on defense, so now Manning is a choker who can't close out games in the postseason. You want to blame someone for choking and not showing up, how about you start with every single player associated with Denver's league-leading pass rush.
what did manning's pick 6 lead to?
Manning's pick 6? You mean the play where he dropped back and threw a perfect ball that hit Eric Decker right in the hands? The play where Decker couldn't secure it because he was busy being the victim of uncalled pass interference, and he wound up tipping it to the Ravens? Oh yeah, that's totally on Manning- HoF QBs know when not to hit their own receivers in the hands with the ball because defenders are about to commit pass interference that will go uncalled by the refs. Pile on Manning all you want for the last int and the fumble, but that pick 6 was not his fault at all. It was a good read and a great throw.
Ok, so it was a good read, a great throw, uncalled pass interference, and a lucky tip to the Ravens D?It wasn't a bad play like the INT in overtime, but it definitely wasn't a good read or a great throw. I just saw the replay and there were 4 Ravens within 5 yards of the WR.
I didn't realize that throws that hit your WR in the hands didn't qualify as "good throws" if there were defensive players 5 yards away from you. There were several defenders within 5 yards of Demaryius on his TD catch, too- must have been a bad throw. There are always going to be defenders around the receiver when you're throwing crossing patterns. It's the nature of the crossing pattern- you're crossing right through the teeth of the defense. Manning threw it to an open receiver, hit him in the hands, and threw it in such a spot that no one but his receiver could get so much as a finger on it. That's a perfect throw. Not his fault that a Baltimore defender reached around and held one of Decker's arms before the ball arrived. Not his fault that Decker, instead of securing it, tipped it up into the air.
This is the part I disagree with. He wasn't open, which is why the ball was intercepted. The defender was all over Decker, and there were three other defenders within 5 yards. He threw a short, hot pass into tight coverage. Not a good risk reward scenario. It completely turned the game around. Yeah Decker should have caught it but you can't excuse Manning there either.Manning had a bad game, just admit it. He was a heavy favorite, at home, and his team gave him not one but two special teams touchdowns, and great field position all day. You can't turn the ball over 3 times. It's just about the only scenario where Denver loses.'SSOG said:
I just don't see it. Manning was bad towards the end of the 4th quarter and overtime, but who knows what plays his idiot coach that likes to kneel down with time left and timeouts in a tie game was actually calling for him. The pick (Pick 6) wasn't on him in the slightest. Manning played a great game through 3 and a little more. Then somewhere in that 4th quarter, whether because of him losing steam, Baltimore stepping up, or his coach being a buffoon he stopped producing, they gave up some bombs, and they lost. Not a heck of a lot of this is on Peyton, they wouldn't have even been in this game the way the defense allowed those bombs all game long had he not been great through 3 plus. And there really wasn't anything in those 4th quarters that could be construed as him losing the game. OT - bad pick - you can blame him. They aren't even in OT without Peyton, and should have already won prior to OT if not for other people around him.
Uh, Manning threw the ball to a guy who was covered. You can call it pass interference all you want, but the defensive player was right there with the receiver. There is a reason he was in position to "interfere" with the receiver --- because the guy Manning threw it to was covered. It was NOT a good read, it was a bad read - but also a very well executed throw into very tight coverage.'SSOG said:
Sorry for doubling up General, just saw your post. Precisely - Decker was not open. Not even close. Your perspective on that play is spot on.
Or 4 times. If Manning takes care of the ball, the Broncos win easily. Then again, if the defense has any freaking clue about not letting a WR get behind them with 30 seconds left.....well, that was just a ridiculously stupid play. In other words, as poorly as Manning played, they were still in position to win. Largely because of 2 special teams TDs.
No doubt the guy was well covered, but you're going to have to make some throws into tight coverage over the course of the game. No reason to believe the throw, executed as well as it was, should have resulted in a pick. The WR was directly between him and the defender with no possibility it hits the defender first if he throws it well. And he hit the WR right in the numbers.
I don't see the Broncos winning easily in a game where their offense scores 0 points and the defense allows bombs all day long, so clearly the QB was going to have to do more than simply take care of the ball all day long.
2 things:1. Manning was at fault on the tipped INT why? Well I just watched it again multiple times from a couple angles.... Manning did hit Decker on the hands but it was on basically his back shoulder where Decker had to slow down to let the Defense catch up. Not only that but if Manning leads him on that play he probably has a good catch and some yardage.
fixed
Again, there are always going to be defenders around the receiver on crossing patterns. Decker was open, though. He wasn't "college open" (defined as having no defenders within 3 yards of you, like you see when future first rounders line up against 2 star recruits at small programs), but he was NFL open. There was a window where Manning could put the ball where no defender could possibly make a play on it. That's open in the NFL. No defender was in any position to get even a finger on the ball. There's more to having a receiver "covered" than just being near them- you have to be in a position to make a (legal) play on the ball to prevent the completion, otherwise you don't have him covered. Just ask Bailey, who was pretty darn close to Torrey Smith on both TDs, and easily could have committed pass interference if he'd so desired.
....BOOM!
If you watched Brady yesterday you saw many similar throws in extremely tight coverage to his WRs. His WRs made the play. SSOG is correct - Peyton's read was a perfectly good read by an extremely accurate QB. It would have been a bad read by about 25 other QBs in the league. Manning makes those throws consistantly, as did Brady yesterday. They both complete them consistantly. Those throws are expected to be caught. More importantly, when Manning is your QB, those passes are expected to be thrown. It's also incredible that people are saying the Pass Interference somehow proves it was "good coverage". If it was actually good coverage then the PI probably wouldn't have been needed to create the tipped ball. Even with the PI - the ball should have been caught.Throws like this are made every game by great QBs. If you have one on your team and watch your games then you see this often.'SSOG said:
