Most valuable defensive player to his team? (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

I'm starting to think it could be Albert Haynesworth. I'm trying to remember a defense that went from excellent to bad because 1 player was out. Could any NFL team lose one player and make that huge a drop in the quality of their D?

When the Giants lost Strahan years ago they went from good to not good. They have 4 DEs now so it wouldn't count now. Pats pride themselves in replacing anyone with depth. Jets, Bills are a no. Fins aren't as good without Zach but this wasn't their year this year at all. Saints, Vikes, Bucs....no. Broncos miss Al Wilson's intangibles but I'm not so sure the difference is as dramatic. Chargers sure take a hit without Jamal but he plays hurt so it's more like Chargers D with a healthy Jamal vs with a "playing thru injury" Jamal. Dallas has depth. Colts replaced Freeney with Rice and Mathis seems to be solid. On and on I can't think of an NFL team that the quality of their defensive play would drop off that much if they lost one defensive player.

All time-

Giants and LT still had a very solid D so did those famous Bears teams should one of their HOFers have missed a game. Famous Steelers and Cowboys teams always had depth. Old Eagles had Sean Jones to apply pressure if Reggie wasn't around. Supe losers but great Ds-Bills had plenty of depth. Skins did struggle without Dexter Manley but IIRC they did get through it OK.

Two Qs-

What NFL player would cause their team to go from excellent D to "not good at all" D if he got hurt?

All time, please name me a quality top D that became terrible without one player. There's gotta be others I just can't think of any right now.

 

[PMENFAN]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

 

[Bri]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

that's true, that's a good one

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

True but we'll see what Dwight Freeney means to them without him.As soon as he was hurt, everyone basically said.......Colts are done. That's a pretty valuable player if indeed that is true.

 

[Phlash]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

True but we'll see what Dwight Freeney means to them without him.As soon as he was hurt, everyone basically said.......Colts are done. That's a pretty valuable player if indeed that is true.

I don't think anyone said they're basically done, everyone agreed that they were the clear #2 at that point but I doubt anyone said the Colts are totally finished.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

True but we'll see what Dwight Freeney means to them without him.As soon as he was hurt, everyone basically said.......Colts are done. That's a pretty valuable player if indeed that is true.

I don't think anyone said they're basically done, everyone agreed that they were the clear #2 at that point but I doubt anyone said the Colts are totally finished.

*sighs* Now I have to go and look up the threads, BRBLink

I saw it in other random Patriot/Colt threads as well.

 

[Godsbrother]

For the Steelers this year it is OLB James Harrison.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Was going to say Haynesworth when I read the title. You are right, the TENN D is night and day with him out. They were the only D I was carrying. Now I have to go situational each week with the waiver wire. Hopefully he gets back in there this week.

 

[SSOG]

The Colts are night and day without Bob Sanders. He put that D over the top last year for the playoff run.

Bob Sanders has achieved near-mythical status because of the playoffs, but Indy actually gave up fewer yards per attempt rushing in the regular season games that Sanders missed than during the games that he played in.Football Outsiders made an interesting point- offensive players are judged by what the team does when they're on the field, while defensive players are judged by what the team does when they're NOT on the field.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

The difference with and without Haynesworth is astounding. Much like Sanders, his presence not only causes issues with matchups, numbers, play flow, it just changes the attitude of the whole defense. Everyone plays and THINKS aggressive when he's out there. Feisty guys who are average talents like Cortland Finnegan and Tony Brown play like men on a mission, they play positively, on their toes. No Haynesworth and everyone seemed to shell up, play negatively, on the heels. Odom, LaBoy, and KVB can't see to finish their pass rush sorties. Thornton and Bulluck seem to lose their seek and destroy mode. The Titans have gone from one of the best defenses in the league and a unit that can win a game on their own, to a unit that is one big soft underbelly. The lack of depth is killing them, as the dropoff from Harper to Hill was apparent last night, and certainly a spot teams will attack as long if Harper doesn't bounce back.

Haynesworth, then Sanders, then Ryans (all in the same division) - Id have to think about who makes up the rest of the top 10.

 

[Colin Dowling]

The Haynesworth thing is KILLING me as a Titans fan.

 

[pizzatyme]

I can think of several:

Bob Sanders

Haynesworth

Champ Bailey

Rodney Harrison

I know what Sanders means to the Colts, regardless of how the statistics bear out. They have a different mentality when he is on the field. Not to mention the effect he has on the opposition. I believe the opposition has to game plan around Sanders.

 

[dgreen]

Sean Taylor is pretty important to Washington.

Taylor has missed the last 5+ quarters. It that time, Washington has given up 6 of their 17 TD passes this season. Before he left, they had given up 6 30+ yard plays. Since he left (again, just over 5 quarters), they have given up 5 30+ yard TDs. Teams didn't even try to through deep, especially down the middle with Taylor playing. Once he left against Philly, that's right where the Eagles went, scoring a TD. Dallas exploited the deep portion of the field, too, last week.

I will say, though, that they still played well against the run. But, their pass D is much, much worse without him.

 

[billrob]

What about John Lynch?

That defense went down hill after he got hurt, then looked pretty good last night in his first game back. He is older, so his skills may have diminished, but no question he is the leader of the defence...even though he says in that commercial that there are 11 leaders on that defence.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Like the suggestions so far.

Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.

I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

 

[sho nuff]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I don't think Kampman is as essential to that Packer D as Al Harris is.Sure, losing his motor would hurt. But they have a solid rotation of linemen. KGB would play more. Jenkins would be on the outside more.But if they lose Harris...they lose a shutdown type corner. They lose some of the ability to go straight press man coverage and free up the LBs to blitz. It would really hamper their D schemes.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I don't think Kampman is as essential to that Packer D as Al Harris is.Sure, losing his motor would hurt. But they have a solid rotation of linemen. KGB would play more. Jenkins would be on the outside more.But if they lose Harris...they lose a shutdown type corner. They lose some of the ability to go straight press man coverage and free up the LBs to blitz. It would really hamper their D schemes.

Fair points and I considered Harris too.It's a topic for another thread, but there's an interesting chicken-egg debate about which player you'd rather have -- the near "shutdown" corner or the every down, two-way defensive end.FWIW, regarding Kampman, I don't think Packer fans want to go back to KGB playing every down. Those days are long gone. Given the current safety situation, Harris may be more vital to this defense but it's pretty close. Kampman wouldn't be real high on this list anyway, just worth mentioning.

 

[sho nuff]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I don't think Kampman is as essential to that Packer D as Al Harris is.Sure, losing his motor would hurt. But they have a solid rotation of linemen. KGB would play more. Jenkins would be on the outside more.But if they lose Harris...they lose a shutdown type corner. They lose some of the ability to go straight press man coverage and free up the LBs to blitz. It would really hamper their D schemes.

Fair points and I considered Harris too.It's a topic for another thread, but there's an interesting chicken-egg debate about which player you'd rather have -- the near "shutdown" corner or the every down, two-way defensive end.FWIW, regarding Kampman, I don't think Packer fans want to go back to KGB playing every down. Those days are long gone. Given the current safety situation, Harris may be more vital to this defense but it's pretty close. Kampman wouldn't be real high on this list anyway, just worth mentioning.

I agree I don't want to go to KGB every down. But I think the LBs are improved enough to help out there...where putting in J. Bush for Harris would be lethal.

 

[massraider]

I am going to be very interested in the immediate future for Haynesworth.

I wonder what happens after the season, and with the rest of his career. Did the light just go on this year, or is the fact that this is a contract year no mere coincidence? He is most likely going to be franchised, I think there has to be some trepidation about breaking the bank for him. Not to take away from his incredible season, but we have been down this road before with some of these defensive tackles. Physical marvels, blow up for a season or two, get paid, and fall back to the pack.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Interesting that Pittsburgh has the best defense in the NFL yet they don't lose a beat when their pro-bowlers are out with injury. In fact they usually play better on defense. I guess they are more of a "functioning unit" defense like Pats have had over the years and don't necessarily require the impact plays of 1-2 key individuals like some of the others mentioned.

Plus anytime one of their top LB's becomes a free agent and not resigned (Porter, Kirkland etc), usually the defense improves the upcoming year.

Aaron Smith returned this past week. The team stated how much they missed their starting DL-man. All he did was pretty much cost them the game with the stupid roughing the passer personal foul on the Jets QB late in the game.

 

[The Jacket]

I'm surprised there's little mention of Jared Allen. He's never missed time since cracking the lineup as a rookie so it's tough to know with any certainty, and the Chiefs do have some talent around him, but I find it hard to believe they'd be any good without him.

That said, it's definitely Albert Haynesworth right now.

 

[Bri]

The difference with and without Haynesworth is astounding. Much like Sanders, his presence not only causes issues with matchups, numbers, play flow, it just changes the attitude of the whole defense. Everyone plays and THINKS aggressive when he's out there. Feisty guys who are average talents like Cortland Finnegan and Tony Brown play like men on a mission, they play positively, on their toes. No Haynesworth and everyone seemed to shell up, play negatively, on the heels. Odom, LaBoy, and KVB can't see to finish their pass rush sorties. Thornton and Bulluck seem to lose their seek and destroy mode. The Titans have gone from one of the best defenses in the league and a unit that can win a game on their own, to a unit that is one big soft underbelly. The lack of depth is killing them, as the dropoff from Harper to Hill was apparent last night, and certainly a spot teams will attack as long if Harper doesn't bounce back.Haynesworth, then Sanders, then Ryans (all in the same division) - Id have to think about who makes up the rest of the top 10.

When was Ryans out? Recent ESPN mag had an article about a DT from LSU. The gist of the article was that he has a similar terrific impact on the team. Not to compare he and Haynesworth but does this dramatic loss/top DT value being shown, elevate where the LSU guy will be drafted, make GMs want him more?

 

[SSOG]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I notice a big trend in this post- lots of DTs mentioned. Thinking about it, I question whether there's another position where a player can make as big of an impact as at DT. He's the first line of defense on both passing plays AND rushing plays. There's never a play that a good DT isn't an integral part of.

 

[Bri]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I notice a big trend in this post- lots of DTs mentioned. Thinking about it, I question whether there's another position where a player can make as big of an impact as at DT. He's the first line of defense on both passing plays AND rushing plays. There's never a play that a good DT isn't an integral part of.

So then would Haynesworth be league MVP? or maybe better Q, what else could a DT do(if anything) to be a league MVP?

 

[jurb26]

Haynesworth has to be the front runner for this IMO. Other guys that I like are B. Sanders, E. Reed and after seeing how pathetic the Skins pass D is w/o him S. Taylor.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Adalius Thomas - Baltimore

 

[Jene Bramel]

Adalius Thomas - Baltimore

Front seven isn't the problem with the Ravens this season. They've been very good. I appreciate the inability to finish off as many complicated blitzes, but the offensive struggles and lack of solid cover corners is what's holding that team back right now.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I notice a big trend in this post- lots of DTs mentioned. Thinking about it, I question whether there's another position where a player can make as big of an impact as at DT. He's the first line of defense on both passing plays AND rushing plays. There's never a play that a good DT isn't an integral part of.

So then would Haynesworth be league MVP? or maybe better Q, what else could a DT do(if anything) to be a league MVP?

Haynesworth (or a similar DT) would have a shot at the DPOY award, but these guys just aren't sexy enough to win an MVP award. Don't have the voting in front of me, but I don't believe Warren Sapp was never seriously considered even in his glory seasons.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Not sure that he's as good of a player as the rest mentioned (my 1st vote goes to Haynesworth), but the Chicago D goes soft every year after Mike Brown goes IR.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

Nate Clements ?

 

[jbz]

Sean Taylor

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Adalius Thomas - Baltimore

Front seven isn't the problem with the Ravens this season. They've been very good. I appreciate the inability to finish off as many complicated blitzes, but the offensive struggles and lack of solid cover corners is what's holding that team back right now.

Dr. Jene,Agreed on the O but that has been the case since Billick took over.Interesting stat...2007 Ravens D: 21 sacks in 9 games (2.3 per game)2006 Ravens D: 60 sacks in 16 games (3.8 per game)The secondary is hurting for sure but it was showing signs of age last year. A vaunted pass rush can turn a bad secondary into a good one. Thomas was invaluable to this D because he could do it all from anywhere on the field. His loss has really hurt guys like Terrell Suggs and Bart Scott who had breakout years in 2006.

 

[PantherPower]

Sean Taylor

 

[Hobbes]

The difference with and without Haynesworth is astounding. Much like Sanders, his presence not only causes issues with matchups, numbers, play flow, it just changes the attitude of the whole defense. Everyone plays and THINKS aggressive when he's out there. Feisty guys who are average talents like Cortland Finnegan and Tony Brown play like men on a mission, they play positively, on their toes. No Haynesworth and everyone seemed to shell up, play negatively, on the heels. Odom, LaBoy, and KVB can't see to finish their pass rush sorties. Thornton and Bulluck seem to lose their seek and destroy mode. The Titans have gone from one of the best defenses in the league and a unit that can win a game on their own, to a unit that is one big soft underbelly. The lack of depth is killing them, as the dropoff from Harper to Hill was apparent last night, and certainly a spot teams will attack as long if Harper doesn't bounce back.Haynesworth, then Sanders, then Ryans (all in the same division) - Id have to think about who makes up the rest of the top 10.

When was Ryans out? Recent ESPN mag had an article about a DT from LSU. The gist of the article was that he has a similar terrific impact on the team. Not to compare he and Haynesworth but does this dramatic loss/top DT value being shown, elevate where the LSU guy will be drafted, make GMs want him more?

That would be Glenn Dorsey...he is as good a lock as anyone to go #1 overall in the draft. I don't think that has anything to do with the recent history of the position in the eyes of personnel directors....DT's have gotten a lot of love in past drafts as well. I'm not sure that it is a stretch to compare Dorsey and Haynesworth...although Dorsey is a bit shorter (and probably plays with better leverage)...but I think Dorsey is much better at this point of his career than Haynesworth was at the same point FWIW

 

[monkeysee]

As for my team - Dallas - DE Ware

 

[Bri]

Like the suggestions so far.Some love for Jamal Williams, Pat Williams and Demarcus Ware. Aaron Kampman, too. Karlos Dansby and Jon Beason are on the verge of entering the conversation.I'm not so big on John Lynch. And I'm with SSOG on Bob Sanders. Love that guy and he's a deserving candidate who's elevated his game even more this year, but one of these days I'm going to get around to a blog post on the impact Macfarland and Morris had on the run defense in 2006, especially Morris.

I notice a big trend in this post- lots of DTs mentioned. Thinking about it, I question whether there's another position where a player can make as big of an impact as at DT. He's the first line of defense on both passing plays AND rushing plays. There's never a play that a good DT isn't an integral part of.

So then would Haynesworth be league MVP? or maybe better Q, what else could a DT do(if anything) to be a league MVP?

Haynesworth (or a similar DT) would have a shot at the DPOY award, but these guys just aren't sexy enough to win an MVP award. Don't have the voting in front of me, but I don't believe Warren Sapp was never seriously considered even in his glory seasons.

Did LT win an MVP?If so can you draw anything from that that someone would have to do to win it from the defensive side?

 

[Bri]

Bumping this to point out a play that didn't necessarily look amazing until ya think about what just happenned. At the end of the Chargers Titans game, WR Vincent Jackson caught a pass and was running up the sideline. Albert Haynesworth hunted him down and put his shoulder into him.

How does a DT catch up to a WR?