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Mostly tattoo discussion, some stuff about Kapernick and his tortoise (1 Viewer)
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drummer
Footballguy
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
why hasn't anyone labeled Peyton Manning a thug ?
oh that's right ... he's not all tatted up like Tupac and he's never gotten himself in bad situations .... act/look like a thug, be labeled a thug
Favre acted/looked like a drunk/pervert ---- because he was/is
its like that, nothing more, nothing less
oh that's right ... he's not all tatted up like Tupac and he's never gotten himself in bad situations .... act/look like a thug, be labeled a thug
Favre acted/looked like a drunk/pervert ---- because he was/is
its like that, nothing more, nothing less
We all get it, drummer. You're trying to commit board suicide and you want to take me with you. That's why you keep calling out Joe B. And tying my name to your discontent. I'm not exactly sure why you're so hellbent on this 'truth' crusade and thinking that I'm trolling. A lot of other guys agree with my stance on Kaepernick. You try making it a race issue. I suppose you think that will keep anyone from saying anything negative about your QB. My opinion is what it is. Sorry that you disagree. But just because someone doesn't share your opinion, that doesn't make them a troll. This board would be pretty boring if everyone agreed on every topic.
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drummer
Footballguy
How about this one Mods? Are any of you getting this yet?
ETA: he is using the word suicide here. That's worse than nutty. Is this the level of conversation needed here?
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You're calling me out ten times in every post you make. Of course I'm going to respond. If you want to talk football, talk football. I'll be more than happy to reply in kind.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
4.0 GPA, book smart thug ?
drummer
Footballguy
Again FBG staff: how does this apply to your standards? How does this measure as far as tangible value. Is this worth it?
drummer
Footballguy
BTW FBG staff, there is an easy way to make this 16 pages in less than 5 minutes:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=702936
Just merge them. That way it doesn't seem like you encourage several threads on fake premises, like Kaep being a thug. Just sayin', before we get into the NFL draft.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=702936
Just merge them. That way it doesn't seem like you encourage several threads on fake premises, like Kaep being a thug. Just sayin', before we get into the NFL draft.
Last warning - drop it now please.
J
J
drummer
Footballguy
I've said what I had to say. I'd appreciate if you listen to it. If you don't, then there is nothing left for me here to value.
I listened to it. And my response is for both of you to drop it and both of you to stop ruining threads.
J
drummer
Footballguy
There are only two threads here regarding this false subject of Kaep being a thug, again mostly based on appearance. They should be locked because it's false as of today. If something is false, why still have it open?
This thread started when the Miami hotel report came out about Kaepernick. It was discussed here just like it was discussed on ESPN TV, ESPN Radio and every talk show across the country. It's a fair topic.
Kaepernick is a polarizing figure for some as he plays in an aggressive style and looks different than QBs like Brady and Manning. He's not as successful yet, but in some ways he's like Tiger Woods in that an aggressive celebration guy that looks different will draw attention.
That can be a good thing when it's discussed in a cool way. Things like his tattoos are bible verses. Or his 4.0 GPA in high school are things that come out in discussion that people maybe didn't know. Where it's not a good thing is when it spirals down with you and junior taking shots back and forth at each other.
Discuss the topic. Don't take shots at each other. That's how we're going to try and operate here. Please join us. I don't want to be a jerk, but if you can't get over that, please don't participate.
J
Kaepernick is a polarizing figure for some as he plays in an aggressive style and looks different than QBs like Brady and Manning. He's not as successful yet, but in some ways he's like Tiger Woods in that an aggressive celebration guy that looks different will draw attention.
That can be a good thing when it's discussed in a cool way. Things like his tattoos are bible verses. Or his 4.0 GPA in high school are things that come out in discussion that people maybe didn't know. Where it's not a good thing is when it spirals down with you and junior taking shots back and forth at each other.
Discuss the topic. Don't take shots at each other. That's how we're going to try and operate here. Please join us. I don't want to be a jerk, but if you can't get over that, please don't participate.
J
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So you never brought any drunk chicks back to your apartment in your 20s?This story does nothing to change my mind about Kaepernick. I think he'll eventually get into trouble. More than just hanging around undesirables and bringing skanky ho's back to hang out.
I wonder if Junior is going to walk back the smugness now that we all know that there was no wrongdoing by Kaep here. Some chick passed out on a bed, they booted her out by using the police. Story over.
Warhogs
Footballguy
I didn't read through the entire post and maybe I will show my age a little bit here but image is important and people are going to make judgements upon others by appearance. I remember about 10 years ago I had stepped into a tattoo and piercing business in Sioux Falls, SD and was talking with a young gal there that was going to school for business. She had several tattoos and piercings that really couldn't be concealed. My thinking was that's great and all but you will not find many opportunities out there no matter what your GPA is. In the business world if you walk into an interview looking like that many businesses will instantly cross you off their list. Well, if you choose to create an image where you look thug like that may very well be many people's impression of you. I always try to explain to my kids that I'm not going to tell them how to dress and such but tattoos, piercings, body altering are pretty permanent things and you really need to thing beyond 10 minutes and two years and understand that people are going to create an impression of you on first sight.
Here in Austin, the person doing the interviewing is just as likely to be the one with the tattoos and piercings as the candidate.
drummer
Footballguy
There is a whole thread on Colin Kaepernick that started after his first start here:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=668316&hl=+colin%20+kaepernick&page=1
34 pages worth, with a bit of digs at posters who still were Alex Smith fans, and those like me who knew how limited the offense was with him. There you can find all kinds of stats, situations, comparisons, pretty much anything you needed to know about Kaep during his first few starts, and somewhat up until now.
What's pertinent here is how he performs as a NFL QB. Not how he dresses, not about some made up story by TMZ, not how a poster trolls using race bait. As you can see, this is what really matters to me. This is what I try to bring to the table here knowing as much as I do about the 49ers. You can ask me anything about Kaep that's relevant to how he plays, where I see his potential, how much they have improved on 3rd down with he behind center, etc. I can just be as critical and even more harsh on him when it comes to playing quarterback for the 49ers, because that's what really matters.
Really his tattoos are irrelevant, and so are his own choices of how free he chooses to present himself. It's already been covered on how he has been nothing but a model for others to look up to as far as he doing the hard work it takes to try to establish himself amongst the pedigree of being a 49er QB. Harsher words were spoken of Steve Young which were also far from any truth, stuff worse than Junior could post. I lived in SF during the Joe vs. Steve era. Steve only won one SB to Joe's four. But when he did, all of the nonsense about Steve went away.
It's that unfair. Because really, there are many a player that get's false stuff written about them until they win. Even after that, they are still under a microscope.
If I want to read hyperbolic, racist nonsense, I can go to a ton of websites that has nothing to do with stats or anything football related. I can read SFGate's comment section for Junior like posts. I suggest you read them. In fact. here is a link:
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/04/14/report-lockette-called-911-after-woman-refused-to-leave-apartment/
Go ahead and spend a morning coffee reading the comments. If your head wasn't done in by all the nonsense here, I'm sure you'll come back and sigh with relief that it's not as bad as that. That's the bar set very low as far as discussion.
This place should be above it. But alas it isn't. This is what I'm taking about Joe. Posts like Junior's are being defended here while not having any truth to them. It's like saying "he's Black with tattoos, so he does have a tendency for getting into trouble". That's totally absurd and racist. I posted many an example of white athletes with similar personal style such as David Beckham. Guess what? Nobody calls Beckham a thug. Guess why?
Hell, the whole "Kaep is a thug who listens to another thug in Dr. Dre" from a Burt Bacharach fan in Junior (who posted a thread about Burt, which I linked in the original crap thread) which I also linked on the collaboration between the two should had least clued you in on Junior's non-football related race baiting schtick.
What really matters here on FBG? How a famous black athlete, even a half black one like both Kaep and Tiger Woods (another one of Junior's fave subjects) are according to those who aren't, both more prone to "thug life", when regarding both subjects, aren't?
The absurdity lies within you letting this happen.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=668316&hl=+colin%20+kaepernick&page=1
34 pages worth, with a bit of digs at posters who still were Alex Smith fans, and those like me who knew how limited the offense was with him. There you can find all kinds of stats, situations, comparisons, pretty much anything you needed to know about Kaep during his first few starts, and somewhat up until now.
What's pertinent here is how he performs as a NFL QB. Not how he dresses, not about some made up story by TMZ, not how a poster trolls using race bait. As you can see, this is what really matters to me. This is what I try to bring to the table here knowing as much as I do about the 49ers. You can ask me anything about Kaep that's relevant to how he plays, where I see his potential, how much they have improved on 3rd down with he behind center, etc. I can just be as critical and even more harsh on him when it comes to playing quarterback for the 49ers, because that's what really matters.
Really his tattoos are irrelevant, and so are his own choices of how free he chooses to present himself. It's already been covered on how he has been nothing but a model for others to look up to as far as he doing the hard work it takes to try to establish himself amongst the pedigree of being a 49er QB. Harsher words were spoken of Steve Young which were also far from any truth, stuff worse than Junior could post. I lived in SF during the Joe vs. Steve era. Steve only won one SB to Joe's four. But when he did, all of the nonsense about Steve went away.
It's that unfair. Because really, there are many a player that get's false stuff written about them until they win. Even after that, they are still under a microscope.
If I want to read hyperbolic, racist nonsense, I can go to a ton of websites that has nothing to do with stats or anything football related. I can read SFGate's comment section for Junior like posts. I suggest you read them. In fact. here is a link:
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/04/14/report-lockette-called-911-after-woman-refused-to-leave-apartment/
Go ahead and spend a morning coffee reading the comments. If your head wasn't done in by all the nonsense here, I'm sure you'll come back and sigh with relief that it's not as bad as that. That's the bar set very low as far as discussion.
This place should be above it. But alas it isn't. This is what I'm taking about Joe. Posts like Junior's are being defended here while not having any truth to them. It's like saying "he's Black with tattoos, so he does have a tendency for getting into trouble". That's totally absurd and racist. I posted many an example of white athletes with similar personal style such as David Beckham. Guess what? Nobody calls Beckham a thug. Guess why?
Hell, the whole "Kaep is a thug who listens to another thug in Dr. Dre" from a Burt Bacharach fan in Junior (who posted a thread about Burt, which I linked in the original crap thread) which I also linked on the collaboration between the two should had least clued you in on Junior's non-football related race baiting schtick.
What really matters here on FBG? How a famous black athlete, even a half black one like both Kaep and Tiger Woods (another one of Junior's fave subjects) are according to those who aren't, both more prone to "thug life", when regarding both subjects, aren't?
The absurdity lies within you letting this happen.
Now I'm taking this off into FFA territory but this a fascinating topic I think.
While Sigmund is exactly right in that in areas like Austin (plus places like Portland, San Francisco, Pittsburgh, NYC off the top of my head - there are lots more...) there are widely differing levels of how things like tattoos and piercings are perceived.
BUT, there is still a huge amount of inertia still in place. Kaepernick is seeing that.
And I personally love seeing how it plays out. ESPN last year chose Kaepernick as the cover guy for their ESPN Fantasy Football magazine prominently featuring the tattoos. That clearly was an angle they were looking to pursue. If Forbes were to have a Fantasy Football Magazine, I'd guess they'd pick a guy like Peyton Manning over Kaepernick. If Esquire Magazine were to have a Fantasy Football Magazine, I'd think someone like Tom Brady might be on the cover. It's all about connecting with a particular audience.
Back to the business guy in Austin is more ok to have tattoos topic though. Even though Sig is right and that's the case in some parts of the country, as a society as a whole, we're far from that point. There are no aspiring ESPN news anchors sitting down today in the chair picking out the new neck tattoo. There may be in the future. But not today. I don't know that there's anything inherently good or bad about that. I just think it is.
I think bottom line is for the most part people understand the implications of their choices. I'd be surprised if Kaepernick wasn't getting exactly the response he wanted. Good for him.
J
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
What he does off the field absolutely matters to the team, to the NFL and lastly to us, FF nuts.
When Favre was a drunk it mattered, when Big Ben was "allegedly" taking advantage of drunk college chicks and driving a Harley ... it mattered. The Ray Lewis fiasco, the Aaron Hernandez murder (s) ....... what happens outside their NFL lives directly impacts their NFL lives
Can't separate them as a pro athlete. Is Kap going down a bad road? Time will tell ........ this isn't a good story to have your second year as a starter though
drummer
Footballguy
The key word here is "story". I mean, you just lumped a player in with no charges or any controversy attached, only again basing everything upon appearance. I mean nobody though Birdman Anderson had the potential of being a pedophile because of his tattoos, although once accused of being one which was proved false. You could say he was a thug for violating the NBA substance abuse policy, but he also beat that.
Sorry to nit pick, but if that was true, it would just be anecdotal since there aren't many cities like Austin. Second, I know Austin is a bit wonky, but it's not that wonky. There are definitely a few business owners/HR managers with tats, but still not that many.
While I'm already here, I'll throw out my take on CK. I'm prone to judge people. I try not to, but it happens. My initial take on this guy is that he isn't even close to being a thug. He likes to pretend with his tats and his full embodiment of the thug chic attire, but he seems like a relatively good guy who is just trying too hard and thus ends up being a poser/DB. The flat brim caps, the constant focus on fashion, the overpriced yet mediocre beats by dre headphones worn purely for aesthetic purposes... it's all too d-bag to be thug-like. He's just trying to fit in where he wants and overcompensating in the process. Hopefully he figures this out as he gets older and just focuses on football.
A guy who spends more time adjusting the angle of his flat brim in the mirror and picking out which flamboyant colored vest he's going to wear (to show off the tats of course) than a girl spends to get ready is simply not a thug. He's just a young guy struggling to balance fame, ego, and career. It can't be easy to deal with so much in your formative years. I mean, if it happened to me, I'd have my own set of PR problems. I'm sure I'd have gotten pulled over with a few joints in my vintage Lamborghini Countach and pictures would've surfaced of me doing keg stands with young, fit ladies. Very few people could handle fame and fortune well in their early 20s. It'll be interesting to see how he's changed in 10 years.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't see anything reported that says he did anything wrong in this story. Unless one gives credence to the sensationalistic, mostly-incorrect initial report from TMZ, or to the nod/nod wink/wink "see, he's a thug" talk. If anyone's saying that the woman who was (reportedly) argumentative, drunk, refusing to leave, causing concern for her state of mind, and blacked out in a hospital with no memory is the reliable reporter here I'd like to hear that. I'd like to hear why she's reliable, and Kaepernick who left the situation was the bad actor.
"He shouldn't be in this kind of situation" is something that's selectively applied. Someone was shot by one of Tom Brady's bodyguards at his wedding but we don't hear that phrase about him.
drummer
Footballguy
BTW, just to keep this real:
http://slodive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/lebron-james-tattoos/labron-chest-tattoo.jpg
Ladies and Gents, a black man with tattoos!
http://slodive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/lebron-james-tattoos/labron-chest-tattoo.jpg
Ladies and Gents, a black man with tattoos!
Birdman is a great example.
Question for you: When it comes to public perception of Birdman and specifically how much leeway or benefit of the doubt he's given on issues like questionable conduct or a drug test, do his tattoos have any effect on the public's opinion? Not should they. But do they?
Follow up question - Do you think Birdman's appearance is something he actively cultivates?
J
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I agree with most of this. I think perhaps a more concise way to put it is to say that Kaepernick simply isn't very mature at this point. Intelligence and maturity aren't the same thing, and I'd like to think that because he has the former, he'll develop the latter as he becomes more experienced and comfortable with his status as an NFL star.
drummer
Footballguy
Well, if you look at a lot of NBA players who aren't white who have tattoos that don't show up as well due to skin color, but wear braids and such that are just as different as Birdman's mohawk....
I think you would find many a Birdman at a Motorhead concert.
Tattoos are de riguer amongst many a young white college educated young person now. Just go to Coachella this upcoming weekend. Hell, go to the Stagecoach Country fest the following weekend. I think every person employed by Goldenvoice has them, even the owners. Most of the stagehands I know have them who are working the events. Personally? I don't have any, and that makes me a whole lot different than most people I know.
We aren't red balling people with tattoos like a sort of Minority Report. 60 years old adults are getting them. Tattoos are layers of color on one's skin. If you showed up to work one day sleeved, does the rest of the staff want to toss you into rehab?
"Ummmm, there is something different with Joe. I think we should worry"
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Again, I think this is all about perspective.
I'd argue that Russell Wilson or Eli Manning or Aaron Rodgers all put as much effort into their appearance as Kaepernick does. I wouldn't call it immature. It's just different. And going for a different reaction.
Now maybe these guys are way less thoughtful than I think they are. But I'd be surprised.
J
Question for you: When it comes to public perception of Birdman and specifically how much leeway or benefit of the doubt he's given on issues like questionable conduct or a drug test, do his tattoos have any effect on the public's opinion? Not should they. But do they?
Follow up question - Do you think Birdman's appearance is something he actively cultivates?
J
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drummer
Footballguy
I got the question Joe. But I'll answer this again with something worth one thousand words:
http://www.texasobserver.org/wp-content/legacy/archives/zrw_080321/images/ryanw.jpg
http://www.texasobserver.org/wp-content/legacy/archives/zrw_080321/images/ryanw.jpg
matuski
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
I'm not. If I perceive Birdman a certain way because of his appearance, then I equally should observe Army Staff Sgt. Ryan G. Williams, a war veteran the same way. I mean, not given the benefit of any back story here, should I predicate any sort judgement based on what malice they might bring due to their respective appearance?Joe Bryant said:
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Warhogs
Footballguy
I'll add a little bit more about myself since I shared some of my perspective. Not only am I middle aged but I live in a small community of 500 people surrounded by a lot of other small 1000-1500 communities in the Midwest. People are going to judge you based on appearance, it's just the way it is. If CK moved into our little community there would be a lot of talk and a lot of people calling him a thug without knowing anything about him. It's the way it is.
drummer
Footballguy
Well, he was born in Milwaukee, and adopted by parents there before they moved to Turlock CA when he was 4 years old.
drummer
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sure there will always be people "judging a book by it's cover" - but my guess is that if he did move into that community and people saw him helping old ladies carry their grocerie bags out to the car or help a neighbor dig their car out of the snow, they wouldn't go on continuing to call him a thug behind his back.
In this thread people judged him based on his appearance, but when his true identity/background was revelead they continued to stand their ground and call him a thug - you know, just because....
I think FF Ninja hit the nail on the head here. It's safe to say that every human being puts effort into their appearance. The guys you mentioned, Wilson, Eli and Rodgers, are doing it in a less flamboyant manor and one that is not harmful to their image or their team's image. It's ok to have tattoos. It's ok to wear a straight brim hat if you like. It's not ok when the effort you put into appearance becomes a detriment to your employer, self or family.
And I'm not saying he really did anything wrong here. In fact, I have yet to see him convicted for any crime yet, so he is innocent in my eyes. However, the choices he is making are ones that a young, immature kid make. Ones that make you a target for stories like this. For instance, even if they did nothing to the woman, can the NFL now test him, Lockette and Patton for Marijuana use? Just dumb decisions that lead to unnecessary distractions.
It's really not that difficult of a question. This isn't about you judging. This is asking you how you think society sees him. And whether you think he cultivates that.
When it comes to public perception of Williams and specifically how much leeway or benefit of the doubt he's given on issues like questionable conduct or a drug test, do his tattoos have any effect on the public's opinion? Not should they. But do they?
Follow up question - Do you think Williams’ appearance is something he actively cultivates?
I'm really interested in your take on this as a 49ers (and I'm assuming Kaepernick) fan.
J
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
On Austin, it still might be an oasis in a desert sea of rednecks, but it's not longer "weird". Austin lost the "keep Austin weird" war a while ago.
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And I apologize for derailing this thread into FFA content.
J
J
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Sorry. I guess delete that if you want.
It's ok. I take the blame for derailing to a discussion on how the public perceives stuff. And yes, Austin isn't as weird as it used to be. But it's still kinda weird.
J
drummer
Footballguy
I think people with tattoos ultimately don't care about how they are perceived amongst other people. It's a total personal choice, and I think best answered by a person like say, a tattoo artist. The best ones know the subject they are applying their work on, and know it's a choice that will make one unique. Of course one such as Kaep has to defend that choice, even though you hardly see MMA fighters having to defend tattoos on their skin. Again, I know a lot of people that are covered with them, and get new ones almost every year. I would think that how they are viewed by the general public means nothing to them anymore, rather it's what they chose because they have the freewill and money to do it.
Then again, I know a guy who drives slow in his brand new Corvette so the ladies can see him driving it.
It's hard for me to answer your question because society is unfair when it comes to predicating judgement on others, and all you need is a Rick Santorum out there to see how much BS one can influence it.
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MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I perceive Kaep as a stupid looking guy not a dangerous one. A bunch of tattoos and stupid looking clothes says stupid to me. That's just style though, and normal humans accept that people will choose to look however they want without laying judgement upon their character. However, the last thing I see when I look at Kaep is a thug. Thugs are dangerous people. Colin Kaepernick is a court jester. There is a massive difference between the two.
drummer
Footballguy
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