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Move over Ginn, Hagan is the new #1 WR (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter doubletrouble
- Start date
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Did you ever just know something about a guy, believe it with everything you had but as the season grew closer you just kind of changed your mind?
That's the case for me with Ginn. I've said ever since they drafted him at No. 9 that this guy is overrated. I watched him last year and I felt he looked lost out there and chalked him off to a bust.
Then this offseason, his name surfaced as a sleeper. It kind of grew, he looked pretty decent in preseason and then he was on many people's sleeper list. Now, I've also felt strongly about a player and have been wrong, so I wanted to have an open mind. It just so happened that Ginn was sitting in a couple of my drafts in very good spots, so I took him against my better judgement, hoping that I was wrong about him.
After week 1, I'm wondering when I'll ever really have the guts to start this guy in a game. Yet, I'm not at the point where I feel I want to just drop him and go after some guys on the WW as an overreaction to week 1.
If Ginn doesn't pan out this year, needless to say he'll be on my s**tlist.
That's the case for me with Ginn. I've said ever since they drafted him at No. 9 that this guy is overrated. I watched him last year and I felt he looked lost out there and chalked him off to a bust.
Then this offseason, his name surfaced as a sleeper. It kind of grew, he looked pretty decent in preseason and then he was on many people's sleeper list. Now, I've also felt strongly about a player and have been wrong, so I wanted to have an open mind. It just so happened that Ginn was sitting in a couple of my drafts in very good spots, so I took him against my better judgement, hoping that I was wrong about him.
After week 1, I'm wondering when I'll ever really have the guts to start this guy in a game. Yet, I'm not at the point where I feel I want to just drop him and go after some guys on the WW as an overreaction to week 1.
If Ginn doesn't pan out this year, needless to say he'll be on my s**tlist.
Mortimer Ichabod
Footballguy
Ginn was wide open a bunch in the last game. If Brett Favre or Jay Cutler was the QB of miami, everyone would be giving ginn the eddie royal/desean jackson treatment at the moment
dirtywaters20
Footballguy
The coaching staff doesn't seem to share this belief. It seems they've gone sour on Ginn big time. He's worthless now that he's been booted from kick returns in my league.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Face it, Miami spent this past offseason working on the offensive and defensive fronts. Next year's FA and draft will be about the receivers and defensive backfield. Until then, you will see some shuffling.
Not sure I would want any phin receiver not named fasano at the moment.
Not sure I would want any phin receiver not named fasano at the moment.
dirtywaters20
Footballguy
That's true; Ginn was the last regime's mistake & therefore Parcells/Sparano simply don't have the same investment in him. I didn't get to see the game. It sounds like he couldn't get seperation & is indecisive on returns...not good for those of us who only drafted him because we figured he'd have the ball in his hands a bunch on Sundays. I still won't drop him simply because it is a deep league & there is nothing remotely enticing on the WW.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Hagan will play until he drops a few passes. Then he will be back to the bench. Unless he loses that bad habit, he will never make an impact. It's really the only thing keeping him from being a solid receiver. As to why he is now #1, my guess is that the coaches are trying to light a fire under him and give him some confidence.
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Just dropped him for Cassel. Eh.
Todem
Footballguy
Oh brother.
This is a non story. The staff is just tinkering in practice. This means nothing come Sunday.
The value is in the Dolphins TE's. Both Martin and Fasano are both going to catch plenty of balls this season.
Derrick Hagan stinks. Always has....always will. Ginn will end up this teams top ball catcher at the WR position. Camarillos a sneaky sleeper as well.
This is a non story. The staff is just tinkering in practice. This means nothing come Sunday.
The value is in the Dolphins TE's. Both Martin and Fasano are both going to catch plenty of balls this season.
Derrick Hagan stinks. Always has....always will. Ginn will end up this teams top ball catcher at the WR position. Camarillos a sneaky sleeper as well.
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Camarillo is the long play here in PPR leagues. Best route runner, most reliable hands, most experienced.
zamboni
Footballguy
Lee Evans seems a possibility if the Bills don't re-sign him long-term.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Dolphins trade away chambers to get ... Evans? One 50% receiver for another. No thanks. I am sure there will be better options out there (Ocho Cinco comes to mind)
Bloom do you see any tangible value for Hagan in dynasty leagues?
zamboni
Footballguy
I don't think the league views Evans nearly as negatively. He's a very good WR - produced big time with the venerable JP Losman, and while he took a step back last year, one has to remember that he had a green rookie QB chucking the ball with little support at the WR position.
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I got him as a throw-in in a deal for Sage Rosenfels in a DEEP 16 teamer this summer, and Im thinking about offering him around to WR needy teams to see what they might give for him. Who knows, Hagan could turn the corner, but I tend to give up on guys with hands problems unless they are strictly concentration based (like Bowe and Edwards many drops last week). Hagan fought the ball even while he was putting up huge numbers at Arizona State, so I'm afraid it's not going to change. That being said, he's a physical specimen, so if he ever does figure it out, he'll be the de facto #1 on a team with a QB that is pretty accurate.Bottom line, I doubt you could get much for him strictly on this piece of news. If he looks good this weekend, his upside is too great to sell in dynasty because you can't get much on one week's production. If he flops, back to WW. So the play here seems to be HOLD and HOPE.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
This is really a debacle but surely at least one MIA receiver will emerge as a viable fantasy commodity before long. I thought Hagan was the guy from jump street and drafted him in a number of leagues, including several of the Best Ball/Survivor style drafts I'm doing this year. That said, I'm still unclear whether this is as much about the coaches lighting a fire under Ginn than it is confidence in Hagan. We shall see.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Who could have guessed that a WR whose only skill is deep speed and Chad Pennington would be a bad match?
I agree. Non-story. Just a message for Ginn. It was too obvious they were trying to get the ball to him, but failed. And not because he wasn't open.
Parcells uses every means imaginable to motivate and everything he did seems to be about motivating a player. While it's still unclear how much Sparano does without Parcells telling him to do it, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he were just trying to light a fire under Ginn.You might recall they "benched" Wilford a while back in favor of Hagan who was then "benched" for Camarillo. Both Wilford and Hagan have been showing more effort ever since. A ton of coaches on new teams spend the whole first year, not just training camp, figuring out which players are "their guys" and which are just there earning a paycheck. IIRC They made a starting LB switch the week before the season openned. I think they just dropped their FB, that started a good amount of TC, this week too. Also with Ginn, Parcells has always said he'll bench any WR for not blocking or giving a lackadaisical effort on a block. For all we know Ginn could have done that.I wouldn't take much from this move just yet
crowe1130
Footballguy
Agreed, though I'm not expecting better than WR4 numbers from him now.
FollowTheBucs
Footballguy
If you pay close attention to Sparano, your statement is totally incorrect (with all due respect). Practice, games, every chance Sparano gets to see a player perform greatly effects playing time. See Ernest Wilford, Ricky Williams, Matt Roth, Camarillo, among others. But, this being a "non story" is probably very correct because, when he sees Ginn do something in practice, he'll flip right on back and dump on Hagan!
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Heard nothing but great things on this board about Ginn in the preseason, how he was a huge sleeper, clear #1 in Miami, etc. Now he's the #5 WR on my team and probably will be cut after this week. Great.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I suspect that Ginn and Hagan will flip-flop in productivity all year, regardless of who is #1 on the depth chart.
I agree the value upside plays here are Fasano (obviously) and Camarillo - having seen Pennington a ton as a Jet, and having seen the last game, it's confirmation that Penny is more of a dink-and-dunk QB räther than a field-stretcher.
This favors the TE, and the underneath route runner - a role Camarillo seems to be playing well right now.
I agree the value upside plays here are Fasano (obviously) and Camarillo - having seen Pennington a ton as a Jet, and having seen the last game, it's confirmation that Penny is more of a dink-and-dunk QB räther than a field-stretcher.
This favors the TE, and the underneath route runner - a role Camarillo seems to be playing well right now.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I can't answer for the Dolphins staff, but the reason why the receivers caught only a few balls is that Pennington consistently checks down because he is reluctant to throw the ball downfield. He can only throw the ball down field if it is a set play they he gets off quickly. he also missed receivers throughout the day.Ginn is fast and he has good hands. The team should be bale to work with a guy like this to be productive.Iwannabeacowboybaby! said:
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
This is a good point. This most likely was Ginn's mistake, but a better QB would have thrown that ball very deep as the DB jumped the route and Ginn would have been long gone behind him.I do not know the play, but this may be another case of Pennington's arm getting in the way. The receivers need to know who is throwing as well.BearsFan said:
saintfool
Dead sexy
you bring up a good point. Ultimately, I think if Pennington's limitations continue to cost them games then it is not unrealistic to imagine Henne starting sooner rather than later. I know that Miami has $11m over 2 years sunk into him but Henne was talked up by the coaches there in the preseason.
not true. If Miami called some bubble screens and quick slants early, inducing the CBs to jump those routes, then just threw three step drop fades to Ginn (Penny can still throw a ball 25 yards in the air), it could work. The Jets had a much better time of it with Penny than Clemens last year. Also Penny found ways to make Coles seem 6'3" in the end zone.
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Am I missing something? The article says nothing about benching Ginn in favor of Hagan. I'm fairly certain they are talking about the other starting WR spot. They benched Hagan in favor of Camarillo last week and I think they're saying Hagan has reclaimed his spot.doubletrouble said:
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
When Ginn didn't return any kicks for the Dolphins last week that killed any value he was going to have this season.
two_dollars
Footballguy
Ginn and Pennington are like water and oil. Ginn can't run a short route and Pennington can't hit him deep.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
add Wilford to the mix. The starting WRs in Miami is about as clear as mud.Jail said:
source: cbs sportsline
dirtywaters20
Footballguy
Why would he need a message then?daivos said:
stevegamer
Footballguy
Since Tatum Bell's not around, is this just a ploy to motivate Ted Ginn?
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Pennington has some serious limitations, but the things he can do he usually does extremely well. He is clearly one of the most accurate QB's in the game (which is why he simply can't miss on short passes like he did opening day), and can manage a game very well, but his arm strength puts more pressure on the running attack (safeties closer). Sadly, Pennington is the best QB Miami has had since Marino
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Overhyped? Everyone said the Dolphins picked him 10+ picks too soon? All I will say is that there are not too many guys who are really fast with good hands. The guys has more value than you are saying.
dagwood
Footballguy
I have not watched Pennington on TV or live much over the years....but hasn't Cotchery and Coles been very productive receivers with Pennington throwing the ball...
So I don't understand this comment that he constantly checks down....
That being said...I am not real sold that Ginn will be a great NFL receiver...he is very fast but very raw....
But I just wonder if its more a case of Pennington still getting up to speed with the offense of Miami (short term limitation) than Pennington having a tendency to check down (long term limitation)..
Would love to hear from people who are Dolphin homers....
So I don't understand this comment that he constantly checks down....
That being said...I am not real sold that Ginn will be a great NFL receiver...he is very fast but very raw....
But I just wonder if its more a case of Pennington still getting up to speed with the offense of Miami (short term limitation) than Pennington having a tendency to check down (long term limitation)..
Would love to hear from people who are Dolphin homers....
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Too bad Ginn is really fast, can't run crisp routes, has average hands at best and is generally considered too soft to go across the middle a lot..
