Those who offer Collins trying to get Manning don't deserve a reply. I'm not saying never trade with these guys, because they might actually be reasonable in the future, but some offers don't deserve a response. I know, some will say "ALL" offers deserve a response, but that isn't true IMO. I would say that 99% of all offers deserve a response. There are not too many people out there in shark leagues making those types of offers. Again, if someone wants a player from my team, look at my roster to see what they think I might need, then make a good offer initially. None of this "What would you want for so and so?" crap on the initial trading email.But we still have gotten deals done.Again,you have your way and I have mine.You want to get a deal done in one email.I would like that as well,but not going to never happen.I will try to remember this in the future.I'll trade you Collins for C.Brown.
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My thoughts on Fantasy trading (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
, but a small part.
Rockchild
Footballguy
My variation is to send out personalized emails to every team or most teams with something I am interested in again, offering a certain player AND what I'd be interested in off of their team. It is a different situation for every team I'm looking to negotiate with. I always mention that I have sent feelers out to other teams and as soon as I get some response I update the message with the phrase "that I've received some interest from other teams" just to up the ante a bit.
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
My trade philosophy is you sometimes need to use all different trade strategies at one point or another.Sometimes you can lowball a guy who is trading from a weak position. Maybe he just suffered a major injury and has no starting QB...Some guys will haggle just for the sake of haggling.I offer my 1st and 6th for Player X and they want 1st and 5th just so they feel like they outnegotiated me. He didn't know I would have gone 1st and 4th...never give a fair 1st offer because you will leave them no room to wiggle.If a guy is one of those guys who trades for the sake of trading, let him do all the work in figuring out the deal, say you want player X, and ask what the guy wants in return.And some guys will just go for the 1st fair offer or they won't deal period if you start with anything not fair right away.It's all a big fun game, and I see no reason to tie myself up in one particular strategy.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
An initial offer usually involves trying to get players you want and give up players you no longer want. However the person offering the trade doesnt know what the other player wants or who the other player no longer wants. The way to find out is either to make an initial offer, ask what an owner would want for a particuliar player, or advertise a particuliar player as being up for trade. All three basic methods of initiallizing trade talks can involve haggling. Half the point of haggling is to find out the other owners wants and let your wants be known. The other half is to get what you want in the deal. It's a communication skill. Some people are good at it and some people arent. Some people like long artistic communication and some people like to keep it short and simple. There is no right and wrong way to do it. Because people's values are different both in terms of desire in communication and in terms of desire of star football players, people can get fiesty in trade talks. There is still no right and wrong way to do it. The more aware you are of your own wants, your own reactions, and the better you can communicate your desires, the better you will be at trading. Geting upset at the way other people negotiate is simple frustration on your part. Improving your own skills is the most logical way to decrease that frustration. Other people will get better at trading as their own skills increase. There are no rights, wrongs, or musts. If you dont like the way someone else negotiates, communicating that helps. That clues the other party in on your value in communication methods. If I know someone doesnt like a blind offer, I can initiate talks another way. If a value is communicated to me politely, I'll probably respond in like. If its communicated by a ridiculous looking offer, I'll probably counter offer my kicker for their best player. Either way emotions and values are expressed. Without some kind of expression of value, no trade will ever be made. When someone appears to be wasting your time, it just means that they dont care to give you what you want. They dont have to. The time spent was used to discover that.
goonsquad
Think different.
The correct answer is "e". Mercilessly mock the lowballer, preferrably calling into question his football knowledge AND manhood at the same time. After all, smack talk is the backbone of fantasy football.But if you are offered Coliins for Manning ( I assume you have Manning), what do you do?
a. get pissed off and never trade with that SOB
b. ignore it and never answer those kind of offers
c. fire back " a thanks for the offer, but it will take a little more than Collins to get Manning"
d. pout and turn on Oprah
DropKick
Footballguy
I will not make a low ball offer. As many have mentioned, this only kills negotiations when playing with anyone above newbie. Now, it may not be my absolute best offer, but it will not be offensive. I have made a number of "fair" trades where each team improved their starters at the expense of depth at a different position.I don't like to shop a player to the league. In my experience, teams assume it's a fire sale and I never see fair value.The other major turn-off is someone who oversells a deal. I'm willing to trade you player X for player Y. X is a stud in the making... who the coaches love.. he should be the next LT2. Blah. Blah. Blah.So then.. why do you want to get rid of him?
Facenda's Voice
Footballguy
From my experience this a false statement. I make as many deals as most in my leagues, and the most in a couple of them, and I always try to make a fair first offer.
nightshift
Footballguy
That's the way to get a trade done. NOT!The correct answer is "e". Mercilessly mock the lowballer, preferrably calling into question his football knowledge AND manhood at the same time. After all, smack talk is the backbone of fantasy football.But if you are offered Coliins for Manning ( I assume you have Manning), what do you do?
a. get pissed off and never trade with that SOB
b. ignore it and never answer those kind of offers
c. fire back " a thanks for the offer, but it will take a little more than Collins to get Manning"
d. pout and turn on Oprah
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I've experienced this as well. While it is an easy way to get your message out to everyone at once, it does seem to plant the "fire sale" mentality to the league. I prefer private emails to the teams I have an interest in trading with. I've sent league wide emails or post at the league site, but I have more success with private emails.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
I think you can do both easily.It's not hard just to send the same e-mail 11 different times, with slightly different wording depending on what the team needs, and what your relationship is with that owner.
Mainly, I agree with you. Mass e-mails (where everyone can see that you sent it to everyone else) and posting to the league board are generally bad ideas.
Tick
Footballguy
I've done all the things you don't like at various times, for the simple reason that they work.Example from this week: Someone said they needed a TE in a dynasty. I asked if he was interested in Cooley. He offered Michael Clayton for Cooley + a 4th. I didn't have a 4th, so I countered with a 5th. Deal done.If I had proposed an offer to him as soon as I knew he wanted a TE, I never would have thought he'd give me Michael Clayton, so I would have shot for someone worth less (to me).Some trades I've seen in my two leagues in the past year that I never thought would have gone down:Gado for a 2nd round rookie pickPlummer/MRob/2nd/3rd for Ramsey/Brunell/1.03(Caddy)Marcus Pollard + a 4th for Derrick JohnsonConwell + 3rd for Chester TaylorAntonio Bryant/2nd rounder for Javon Walker/1st rounderMichael Clayton for a 2nd rounderCassel/2nd for DBennett/3rdShaun Alexander + 1.06 for Priest Holmes (2004 offseason)Brees/Losman for McNabbYou never know what the other guy is thinking - he could be dumb, or he could just undervalue/overvalue a particular player, or he may have decided to hold a fire sale... weird trades happen all the time.
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
It is not false... ...you are reading that out of context.
The 2nd bolded part you pulled out refers to the people I talk about in the first bolded part.Allow me to rephrase...
Better?
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goonsquad
Think different.
If someone brings an offer so far out of whack that it deserves to rediculed, chances are they won't be willing to giving fair value anyway. So instead of wasting my time negotiating with a blockhead, I get some good laughs out of it.That's the way to get a trade done. NOT!The correct answer is "e". Mercilessly mock the lowballer, preferrably calling into question his football knowledge AND manhood at the same time. After all, smack talk is the backbone of fantasy football.But if you are offered Coliins for Manning ( I assume you have Manning), what do you do?
a. get pissed off and never trade with that SOB
b. ignore it and never answer those kind of offers
c. fire back " a thanks for the offer, but it will take a little more than Collins to get Manning"
d. pout and turn on Oprah
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nightshift
Footballguy
Here's the point... if the trade occurred today, yes, it would be way lopsided. But what if we were talkin' the beginning of 2005 season? Or if Collins signs on long term, say Minnesota, in 2006?It's still lopsided towards the Collins owner, but not a totally "can't be done" deal.If someone brings an offer so far out of whack that it deserves to rediculed, chances are they won't be willing to giving fair value anyway. So instead of wasting my time negotiating with a blockhead, I get some good laughs out of it.That's the way to get a trade done. NOT!The correct answer is "e". Mercilessly mock the lowballer, preferrably calling into question his football knowledge AND manhood at the same time. After all, smack talk is the backbone of fantasy football.But if you are offered Coliins for Manning ( I assume you have Manning), what do you do?
a. get pissed off and never trade with that SOB
b. ignore it and never answer those kind of offers
c. fire back " a thanks for the offer, but it will take a little more than Collins to get Manning"
d. pout and turn on Oprah
Unless, of course, that it is a best & final offer.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yes, weird trades happen all the time, and as you said, "he could be dumb or he could just undervalue/overvalue a particular player", but in my experience, whether you are playing with sharks and /or guppies, the best way to make a deal and build a good reputation with trading is to offer a decent initial offer. Keep in mind those guppies in your league probably won't be guppies for long, and I'm sure they will have a good memory. I doubt that anyone wanting to stay in a dynasty league long term wants to alienate owners because he suckered a a guppy. If he does, he's in for a rude awakening with future offers. I've read on this board from posters who have trouble trading for this very reason.
Titans2003
Footballguy
Funny how four of those trades were made involving my dynasty team. Are you trying to say something, Tick?I was hoping for Cooley and a fifth when I offered Tick Cooley and a fourth. It's only slightly ironic that I put the fourth round pick in the deal when it was my snafu as Commish that listed the fourth-rounder as Tick's when he already traded it away.
I posted my 'needs' on our league message board and made the Cooley deal with Tick. Other offers have been less generous.
Tick
Footballguy
No, the point I was trying to make is that people value players differently. I think Cooley overachieved and isn't a fit for all offensive systems since he's an H-back, and I have Heap/Hilton/Wilson/Everett/EJohnson at TE, so he was expendable to me. Clayton's a guy I think can bounce back and be a solid WR for years to come. If I hadn't started off discussions in a vague way, I don't think the discussions ever would have gotten to Clayton, so using the "hey, are you interested in Cooley" opening worked well. And I don't think you feel screwed in the deal either - we're both happy, despite me using the vague opening and you asking for more than you were willing to take.I don't see the problem with the things in the initial post. In my two leagues, I don't think I've offended anyone with any of the tactics listed, despite using all of them in some situation or another.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Isn't it funny how we have to justify our offers after the fact? So many of us in this thread want to convince others we are offering good deals, yet the only thing remains is the end deal. None of this changes the fact that offering a good initial deal is all that matters. If you can't do that, then my guess is that you don't deal in the future. At least not for very long.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Isnt your statement of "good initial offer" a subjective one? It is not necessarily a good offer if the person making the initial offer is the only one that thinks it is fair.
I wonder if Chuck's trading philosophy changes depending on whether he's in a position of strength or not. I've only tried to make a deal with him in a dynasty league where his team was loaded and I was trying to dig a team out of at least 2 year's worth of mismanagement. His offer was a short-term benefit to me but a long-term disaster while it was a win-win for him. If you really have nothing to lose, it's a lot easier to see the "benefits for both sides."Post of the year,it's early but I think this will win out.JohnnyU always thinks His offers are fair.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Obviously if you have less to work with it is harder, but yes, I still try to make a good initial offer whether my team is strong or weak.I wonder if Chuck's trading philosophy changes depending on whether he's in a position of strength or not. I've only tried to make a deal with him in a dynasty league where his team was loaded and I was trying to dig a team out of at least 2 year's worth of mismanagement. His offer was a short-term benefit to me but a long-term disaster while it was a win-win for him. If you really have nothing to lose, it's a lot easier to see the "benefits for both sides."
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