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My transition from supporting Obama to Trump (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NorvilleBarnes
- Start date
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
@NorvilleBarnes -- 1) Do you think there is anything the Democratic Party could do now to win back your support? Not necessarily this election cycle but in the long term.
2) Where do you generally get your news? Has your political evolution also resulted in a change in what you consider to be credible sources?
2) Where do you generally get your news? Has your political evolution also resulted in a change in what you consider to be credible sources?
Are we reading the same thread? The vast majority of replies have been thanking him for his perspective. A couple people have criticized him for supporting Trump, but even there, they've generally been polite and not attacking him personally.@NorvilleBarnes thanks for sharing my man. Appreciate hearing your story and putting it out there even when you know the regular negativity will get thrown at you. You aren’t alone.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I don't disagree with you about the GOP, but who on the left do you view as having fiscally conservative policy?sho nuff said:
GoBirds
Footballguy
Skip over the first response? Among others?Are we reading the same thread? The vast majority of replies have been thanking him for his perspective. A couple people have criticized him for supporting Trump, but even there, they've generally been polite and not attacking him personally.
The fact that some still can't control themselves taking shots after his well thought out and respectful post speaks volumes.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Right now Klobuchar is about the only one with anything taking on the deficit.
But my main point now...is that if we aren't going to be fiscally conservative in nature in regards to spending...Id rather it be for socially liberal things like healthcare and education initiatives than big tax breaks to the wealthy and big corporations.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
To be fair, if someone started a thread saying, “I gave up football and am only a soccer fan now”, it would be natural for the conversation to partly be about the pros/cons of football and soccer.Skip over the first response? Among others?
The fact that some still can't control themselves taking shots after his well thought out and respectful post speaks volumes.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Except post #2 was childish and inaccurate insults and not productive at all.........but sure I guess? Defending it is another perfect example, again props to NB for posting his position when you know what you get in here.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yup. Same here. Even if investment in industry could be brought in the name of the public as a public work, it'd be better than what we have.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m not defending every post here. And yes he knew what he was going to get so it took some chutzpah to do it. I was just speaking to Joe not wanting us to talk about POTUS. It’s hard to do in a thread about why someone is strongly supporting POTUS.i haven’t read all the posts here but I didn’t see anyone attack NB.
GoBirds
Footballguy
I'm not clear on what you are mentioning and probably best to move on. If you don't see "I don’t understand supporting pathological, dim-witted, craven, criminal self-promoters" as insulting or you think that's what Joe is looking for as you mention since it's not "attacking" I guess we disagree on this one which is fine. Seems like more of the same to me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
Yea I disagree with you and posted defending cobalt from the Moderator saying something similar.
While maybe cobalt could have said it more artfully, his point gets to the heart of the matter. But apparently we are not allowed to discuss that.
GoBirds
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
You lead the charge on a lot of the Trump hate, I think most could have predicted this type of response.
timschochet
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't know if I lead the charge - seems like there are a lot of us on this board - but I am very anti-Trump.
But that's sort of besides the point. My point is - I think Trump is a terrible person who says and does terrible things. That's very relevant to discussing the OP's decision to become a Trump supporter. Its hard to discuss his decision to support Trump if we can't talk about the things Trump does and says.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
He’s been a breathe of fresh air after the stagnant Presidency before him that was the slowest recovery ever out of recession. Sorry you don’t agree with immigration laws and enforcing them and attempting to reign in an out of control arrangement with China that’s too far gone....there’s probably a thread for that somewhere.
timschochet
Footballguy
This is the sort of crap that drives me crazy. Yes Trump is a criminal and an awful louse of a human being. He’s been, IMO, a horrible President.
But he’s not a monster. Pol Pot was a monster. Heinrich Himmler. Saddam Hussein. Idi Amin. Charles Manson. These are the guys, among others, who were “everything that is wrong with humanity.” Let’s have a little perspective, please.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s not a question of agreeing or not agreeing- the point is they’re not good for business.
GoBirds
Footballguy
All factors considered its a lot better than the previous regime and it’s not close, no matter what off topic talking point you want to throw out there. But thanks Tim.
joffer
Footballguy
i didn't think he was funny when he was a democrat either
mr roboto
Footballguy
I understand his ‘potential’ appeal. I was kinda rooting for an ‘outsider who would shake up the mainstream’. He had some list of things he promised to do in the first 100 days and I was actually excited about some of them.Widbil83 said:
But IMO he’s even more corrupt, lazy, divisive and incompetent than the swamp he claimed to come to drain.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I'm not even sure how one can come to that conclusion based upon how well America is doing right now. And divisive? Not anymore divisive than the Democrats have been. I mean, it's been nothing but going after Trump to get him on something - ANYTHING - since day 1. They've done nothing else. Also, the rhetoric coming from the left (in this very thread, even) shows you how divisive they are.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Agreed. I remember in other forums that Hillary Clinton is not a criminal and being asked to show any convictions to prove that she was. I guess we'll just use the same standard here.
Widbil83
Footballguy
Thanks for the reply. Your opinion is in the minority in the real world though (but like a duck in water around here).
BladeRunner
Footballguy
what i mean by that is I believe, based on his long history, that Trump is at a minimum a sociopath if not a psychopath. He is rotten to the core in my opinion, if tomorrow north korea or iran or iraq or the phillipines or a simliar country said come be president for life, Trump would have no problem acting like some of the most murderous dictators in history.Just like it holds every president back.
You may not believe that, but I do. That's what i see in this 'man'
BladeRunner
Footballguy
the man stole from his own charity...i see plenty of it.
But that's alright because we are both just stating our opinions
mr roboto
Footballguy
You think a majority of the real world think Trump isn’t corrupt, lazy, divisive and/or incompetent?
Maybe lazy can be debated. Divisive isn’t even close to debatable. Neither is corrupt. Incompetent may be too subjective.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
In my opinion left and right aren't really the correct words to be using to describe the two parties. It sort of implies a single line with the two on opposite ends. But to me it's more like two completely separate lines on different planes. Not only do different things matter to different parties, but they even disagree about them using different language. Warning: these are generalities. Yes there are exceptions and single anecdotes don't undo the whole thing. But generally the left seem to talk in terms values and morality and the right seems to talk in terms of policy. It seems like I see this everywhere - even on this board. Vote Bernie, he's a decent human being. And don't vote Bernie, he's a socialist. Yes there's lots of policy talk on the left (See Elizabeth Warren) but generally it seems like the morality is driving the policy. And yes, there's lots of rhetoric about who is good or bad on the right, but generally it seems to be driven by policy. It's as though one side is shouting "Blue and yellow make green and that's TRUE and if you disagree you're BAD (or a bigot, homophobe, etc)" and the other side is shouting "Two plus two is four and that's TRUE and if you disagree you're DUMB (or crazy or unAmerican, etc)". A few poor hapless souls saying "I can reach across the aisle and add four plus . . .green" and everyone hates them.
So for me, in absence of a candidate or platform that perfectly align with my beliefs (and that's never), I choose which I emphasize and which I overlook. Some of you may go "I don't overlook anything" and good for you. Statistically speaking there has to be some that align almost perfectly with their candidates and I envy you. Go away.
For me, supporting Barrack Obama meant going with the fact that I truly liked the guy. I liked the generalities he was promoting and didn't get into too much detail on the policies. I was tired of Bush and war and Republicans. And Obama had done the impossible - he won the nomination. Anything was possible.
Like I said earlier, after marriage equality was settled, I wasn't really interested. I didn't hate Obamacare, I was mostly indifferent and sort of thought of it as Romneycare anyway. I was planning on voting for Jeb! He was a really good governor and I thought he'd be a pretty restrained President. Watching Trump tear through the entire field of Republican candidate was quite impressive. I really liked the fact that he didn't cave in to media pressure. I remember early on him losing a lot of sponsors, and he just doubled down. No one had ever done that. Ever. Even the things he did or said that I didn't like, I appreciated the fact that he would just move on. I was very (pleasantly) surprised he defeated Hillary. I'm not a racist or a homophobe or a misogynist - so when my liberal friends went on rants I didn't get too defensive. I saw it more along the lines of "OMG you didn't vote green, you're bad". But it never stopped. It was like Trump broke the Democrats. being called a bigot was sort of like being called Japanese, it didn't upset me but I often was left simply going 'Am not." I tried to reason with some (ok, you have two, and then add two more, and that's where I'm at . . . four). Thousands of people ("blue" states) voting for "the black guy with a funny name", twice, and THEN turned racist?
They say things like "Don't give me that LEGAL immigration nonsense." No, sorry, I am for legal immigration and I'm against illegal immigration. I'm a second amendment supporter. It's never been a voting issue, but if the left is going to try to restrict it, then I guess it is. I'm pro life. I'm very patriotic. In general, I'm simply more aligned with Trump than any of the Dems running. I fought for marriage equality but I don't need drag queen story hour. I wanted to expand voting rights - but not for illegals. I'm for freedom of speech (including freedom to burn the flag) but not for de-platforming, banning or shouting down other voices. I'm pro life and it wouldn't really be a voting issue for me unless the left tried to remove all restrictions.
Again, apologies for being so long winded, and not even funny, but that's most of it.
So for me, in absence of a candidate or platform that perfectly align with my beliefs (and that's never), I choose which I emphasize and which I overlook. Some of you may go "I don't overlook anything" and good for you. Statistically speaking there has to be some that align almost perfectly with their candidates and I envy you. Go away.
For me, supporting Barrack Obama meant going with the fact that I truly liked the guy. I liked the generalities he was promoting and didn't get into too much detail on the policies. I was tired of Bush and war and Republicans. And Obama had done the impossible - he won the nomination. Anything was possible.
Like I said earlier, after marriage equality was settled, I wasn't really interested. I didn't hate Obamacare, I was mostly indifferent and sort of thought of it as Romneycare anyway. I was planning on voting for Jeb! He was a really good governor and I thought he'd be a pretty restrained President. Watching Trump tear through the entire field of Republican candidate was quite impressive. I really liked the fact that he didn't cave in to media pressure. I remember early on him losing a lot of sponsors, and he just doubled down. No one had ever done that. Ever. Even the things he did or said that I didn't like, I appreciated the fact that he would just move on. I was very (pleasantly) surprised he defeated Hillary. I'm not a racist or a homophobe or a misogynist - so when my liberal friends went on rants I didn't get too defensive. I saw it more along the lines of "OMG you didn't vote green, you're bad". But it never stopped. It was like Trump broke the Democrats. being called a bigot was sort of like being called Japanese, it didn't upset me but I often was left simply going 'Am not." I tried to reason with some (ok, you have two, and then add two more, and that's where I'm at . . . four). Thousands of people ("blue" states) voting for "the black guy with a funny name", twice, and THEN turned racist?
They say things like "Don't give me that LEGAL immigration nonsense." No, sorry, I am for legal immigration and I'm against illegal immigration. I'm a second amendment supporter. It's never been a voting issue, but if the left is going to try to restrict it, then I guess it is. I'm pro life. I'm very patriotic. In general, I'm simply more aligned with Trump than any of the Dems running. I fought for marriage equality but I don't need drag queen story hour. I wanted to expand voting rights - but not for illegals. I'm for freedom of speech (including freedom to burn the flag) but not for de-platforming, banning or shouting down other voices. I'm pro life and it wouldn't really be a voting issue for me unless the left tried to remove all restrictions.
Again, apologies for being so long winded, and not even funny, but that's most of it.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
Thank you for expanding on some of your thoughts. I want to dig in a little on the above. Do you think that the Democrats seek to expand voting rights to non-citizens?
Personally, I see the Democrats trying to expand voting rights to released felons, people on reservations without fixed addresses, and marginalized groups that have restricted mobility or access to government offices. I think they are doing this for self-serving reasons, just as I think that the GOP is trying to restrict voting rights (some call this voter suppression) for self-serving reasons.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I also want to dig in on this line. It sounds like you don't like the political correctness and "woke speech" of the left. I can understand that, even if I don't agree with it. What I don't really get is that Trump's statements tell us exactly what kind of person he is, and that is a person that I wouldn't want to be friends with, nor would I want my children to become like Donald Trump. Do you want your children to emulate Donald Trump's words or deeds?
Maybe that's morality talk, but I don't think totally divorcing ethics and morality from policy is the best idea.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Yeah I think both sides are pursuing their own agendas. And I think both are not fully honest about what they're doing imo.
djmich
Footballguy
Nice post, much of it stuck a chord with how I feel.
I don't align with a party, disagree with both parties on much, lean right, couldn't vote trump in 2016 but will gladly (and sadly at the same time) vote trump 2020
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Sorry to press, but you didn't answer my question. Do you think that the Democrats seek to expand voting rights to non-citizens?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
True but frequently Trumps statements get taken out of context. Many times his statements are bad on their own but presented as much worse. When you research things and find oh he didn't call Meghan nasty, he didn't call white supremacists fine people, it just starts to feel like the boy who cried wolf.
On the net, Trump is a serious Alpha and could probably be friends with him. I just get along with alphas more than "soy boys" in general.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
1) Of course. I try to guard against being a demagogue so if the Republics go too far on some issues and the Dems run a moderate candidate that aligns with me about 60% (where I started) I could absolutely see it.
2) Honestly I get most of my news from Twitter and drill down on the stories that interest me. I follow about 250 and about 100 are news/political people and orgs. I follow some conservatives but I'm more interested in people I disagree with.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. I think that Trump let's us know daily what kind of person he is, via tweets, quotes, and deeds. As for the alpha thing, I don't respect or seek to be friends with bullies, and I think more than anything, Trump is a bully.
bostonfred
Footballguy
This thread makes me sad.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Absolutely. I think that's the whole point of providing illegals with drivers licenses.It's the thin end of the wedge.
joffer
Footballguy
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I can see that. But for me that's not a big criteria for President. There may times in that job where being a bully comes in handy.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Again, I disagree here. I don't think there's much documented evidence of efforts to get non-citizens on the voting rolls. Rather, I think the reason to allow the undocumented to obtain drivers licences and other identification is to help regulate the people that are acting in ways detrimental to society simply because they have no other means of acting. Undocumented people are going to drive cars. Shouldn't those people be certified that they understand the rules of the road?
Also, and other reason to grant documents to the undocumented is so that they may obtain assistance when needed. In some places that may mean aid (financial, food, or other). In other places it may mean that the undocumented have better access to law enforcement when their rights have been violated or they have been abused (say by violence). These people are here, and as such they are afforded some rights under the law. Granting them identification helps protect those rights.
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