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My Urban Garden (2 Viewers)

How we doin'? Just about everyone but the rainsoaked, blight inflicted, northeast should be munching maters by now, right? I may have to write up my tomato harvesting lecture for you guys. Hmm.
I'm finally getting some tomatoes in NYC after the rough weather conditions. The beefsteak has given some excellent tasting maters, but they aren't very numerous. I'd be curious if you have any tips to increase the production. Anything I can do from here on out? One of the early girls has done really well, but I have some pretty severe splitting on the other early girl plant and lost about a dozen. I'm not sure why one plant suffered the splits and the other didn't, but it's been next to impossible to control the amount of water these things have been getting. I did get this perverted little fruit. I'm thinking of starting a web page dedicated to it.

One note Commish, the white fly infestation seems to have taken care of itself. I did some heavy pruning to get rid of all the yellow leaves and that seemed to take cafe of it. Weird.

In the end, it's been a pretty successful first year of patio gardening with a decent harvest of strawberries, tomatoes and herbs. The red onions were a complete bust though. I'll skip those next year. Thanks again for all the advice.

 
Septoria leaf spot is "sort of" the same thing as early blight in that I said it was bound to come sooner or later. I don't fret about either much, but my dry condtions keep it at bay. Several practices covered below will help prevent it in the future. For now, remove the infected leaves and branches as long as it doesn't strip the plant too bare. Then if you're not all organic and worried about such stuff use the Ortho or Daconil, both available everywhere, both featuring Chlorothalonil as the active ingredient, the Ortho a little broader spectrum control. It's a very simple effective product that coats the healthy leaves and stems to keep the fungal spores from finding new homes. That's all it is -- a coating, so it must be reapplied after rain or overhead watering and it must be applied thoroughly, until the plant is pretty much dripping. The $7 premixed bottles cover 2 good sized plants, the $14 concentrate that makes several gallons is the way to go so you have plenty for future applications when necessary. Many in the south just spray every two weeks whether they need to or not. It is solid prevention and harmless to the fruit or soil, and anyone eating either. There are organic treatments, but google them yourself if this product worries you. It doesn't worry me. My plants got one shot of it early in the year, but then I have little humidity and rain so it isn't as big an issue here as elsewhere.Fanatic, I think you do a nice job and are fine planting in the same spot year after year the way you amend the soil. Rotation is for farmers with the acreage to do it and without the cost effective ability to rejuvenate and monitor a small space like yours. One of the best growers in the country grows in humid conditions on the same piece of land every year. Land that has grown tomatoes annually without a break since the late 1800s. Septoria and Alternaria spores probably exist in any soil you would move to anyway. Some years are worse than others and this is a bad one, but next year could be great.The best way to prevent it is to understand how it works. It over winters in the soil and grows when the soil warms. It is a fungus thus procreates via spores. Those spores have to find a host. They either need the leaves to touch the soil or the soil to be splashed up to the leaves. This is a great reason to prune the bottom of the plant and keep it off the soil. And this also why you do not want to spray the soil when you water. Overhead sprinklers don't splash the soil up but that type of watering helps spread the condition by creating a perfect environment for it to grow. Wet leaves are bad in humid climates and cannot always be avoided, but should be minimized. Probably the best preventative is mulch. A thin layer of cornmeal below the mulch and on top of the soil gets good reviews. A good four inches of straw keeps the spores off the plants better than anything else. The ideal set up would use drip irrigation under the mulch so it also doesn't get wet on top. At the end of a season remove the plants and all debris from the area. This is a great time for a thick topping of straight manure to overwinter into the soil btw. Keeps the worms multiplying and happy too. Buries the spores and cooks them a little as the manure composts.
Thanks for all the info here. Yeah, I ran out of mulch this year and didn't really put much down in that area. So this makes a lot of sense. I will try to pick some of the ortho up this week and get a good drenching. I've been stripping leaves and branches up to this point, it just has gone much higher than in years past. And while I have gone all organic this does not bother me. I don't like artificially inflated fruit from miracle grow, but I'm OK with spraying something on the outside as I can always wash off this stuff. I can't wash off miracle grow sucked up through the roots...I need to remember to pare back the lower branches next year....
 
I'd be curious if you have any tips to increase the production. Anything I can do from here on out?

One of the early girls has done really well, but I have some pretty severe splitting on the other early girl plant and lost about a dozen. I'm not sure why one plant suffered the splits and the other didn't, but it's been next to impossible to control the amount of water these things have been getting. I did get this perverted little fruit. I'm thinking of starting a web page dedicated to it.
To increase production in the future move to a better climate or pray for a better climate, choose more productive varieties (actually yours are good producers for the most part), use the dildo if you're not, and find a way to moderate water better. There's not much you can do to increase production this year but maybe seal the top of those containers with plastic trash bags or something if the rains persist. You need great weather for awhile. You could really use a productive determinate plant there like Celebrity, New Yorker or Rutgers next year. An heirloom called Mountain Pride or one called Sophie's Choice does well in containers and pumps out a solid good sized great tasting early harvest. Determinates have a concentrated set of fruit and then they're done, but they produce more in that set than most indeterminates do all year. Had you chosen a hybrid I would send you some Carmello or maybe commercial Amelia seed then you could have tomato fights with the extras. :excited: The cracking is related to all the rain. It's still a good topic, especially because yours is concentric as opposed to radial, but I don't feel like writing a long post and this would lead to the tomato harvesting lecture that I've been avoiding. Pssst, pick them a little sooner... before they crack. It isn't odd one early girl is cracking while the other isn't. I'm sure the one that isn't is draining better.

 
Septoria leaf spot is "sort of" the same thing as early blight in that I said it was bound to come sooner or later. I don't fret about either much, but my dry condtions keep it at bay. Several practices covered below will help prevent it in the future. For now, remove the infected leaves and branches as long as it doesn't strip the plant too bare. Then if you're not all organic and worried about such stuff use the Ortho or Daconil, both available everywhere, both featuring Chlorothalonil as the active ingredient, the Ortho a little broader spectrum control. It's a very simple effective product that coats the healthy leaves and stems to keep the fungal spores from finding new homes. That's all it is -- a coating, so it must be reapplied after rain or overhead watering and it must be applied thoroughly, until the plant is pretty much dripping. The $7 premixed bottles cover 2 good sized plants, the $14 concentrate that makes several gallons is the way to go so you have plenty for future applications when necessary. Many in the south just spray every two weeks whether they need to or not. It is solid prevention and harmless to the fruit or soil, and anyone eating either. There are organic treatments, but google them yourself if this product worries you. It doesn't worry me. My plants got one shot of it early in the year, but then I have little humidity and rain so it isn't as big an issue here as elsewhere.Fanatic, I think you do a nice job and are fine planting in the same spot year after year the way you amend the soil. Rotation is for farmers with the acreage to do it and without the cost effective ability to rejuvenate and monitor a small space like yours. One of the best growers in the country grows in humid conditions on the same piece of land every year. Land that has grown tomatoes annually without a break since the late 1800s. Septoria and Alternaria spores probably exist in any soil you would move to anyway. Some years are worse than others and this is a bad one, but next year could be great.The best way to prevent it is to understand how it works. It over winters in the soil and grows when the soil warms. It is a fungus thus procreates via spores. Those spores have to find a host. They either need the leaves to touch the soil or the soil to be splashed up to the leaves. This is a great reason to prune the bottom of the plant and keep it off the soil. And this also why you do not want to spray the soil when you water. Overhead sprinklers don't splash the soil up but that type of watering helps spread the condition by creating a perfect environment for it to grow. Wet leaves are bad in humid climates and cannot always be avoided, but should be minimized. Probably the best preventative is mulch. A thin layer of cornmeal below the mulch and on top of the soil gets good reviews. A good four inches of straw keeps the spores off the plants better than anything else. The ideal set up would use drip irrigation under the mulch so it also doesn't get wet on top. At the end of a season remove the plants and all debris from the area. This is a great time for a thick topping of straight manure to overwinter into the soil btw. Keeps the worms multiplying and happy too. Buries the spores and cooks them a little as the manure composts.
Thanks for all the info here. Yeah, I ran out of mulch this year and didn't really put much down in that area. So this makes a lot of sense. I will try to pick some of the ortho up this week and get a good drenching. I've been stripping leaves and branches up to this point, it just has gone much higher than in years past. And while I have gone all organic this does not bother me. I don't like artificially inflated fruit from miracle grow, but I'm OK with spraying something on the outside as I can always wash off this stuff. I can't wash off miracle grow sucked up through the roots...I need to remember to pare back the lower branches next year....
Excellent info here.. I had it pretty severe last season, but this season it's rather minimal so far.. applied some daconil this weekend, so we'll see. I've also got one plant without the spots, but started progressively turning brown, starting at the bottom,moving upward. Then, toward the top, any new branches would start to grow, then turn brown.. Still trying to figure out what went's going on there..finally starting to get some of the early girl's coming in.. Looking forward to seeing some of the Purple Cherokee's start to ripen.. never tried those..
 
I've also got one plant without the spots, but started progressively turning brown, starting at the bottom,moving upward. Then, toward the top, any new branches would start to grow, then turn brown.. Still trying to figure out what went's going on there..finally starting to get some of the early girl's coming in.. Looking forward to seeing some of the Purple Cherokee's start to ripen.. never tried those..
I am fan of the Cherokees. There is a relative/strain called Indian Stripe that is a little smaller much more productive, ripens earlier, is more disease tolerant , and I think tastes a little better/bolder. Just a heads up, if you really like the Cherokee Purple. I would rank them in the top five of hundreds of tomato varieties I've tasted. On the plant browning from the bottom, it could be a few things. It's probably Alternaria aka early blight at the "firing up" stage. That's bad when it's moving as fast as you describe. Google some images, it has a distinct look. It might not be that though.Tomato plants compensate for nutrient and mineral deficiencies. They extract needed calcium, nitrogen, whatever they need and can find, from the lower leaves that are no longer providing for babies in order to bring the "food" to the hungry growing tips. So the bottom dies to support the top. This is common and hard to stop. A couple general diluted feedings a week apart may solve the problem. Use a fertilizer with minerals and or micronutrients on the label. Standard NPK may not have what's missing. Sometimes it's just the plant. Some people get cancer and some don't. Same with tomato plants. There's a couple untreatable fungus related vascular wilts (verticillium and fusarium) with the same symptoms and gardeners often believe they have one, but usually don't. And there's a bacterial wilt that is more rare. All you can do with any of them is keep the plant on life support and hope for some nice maters before it croaks. All tomato plants eventually do. It is very very rare that a plant is in good shape before being killed by frost.
 
I'm gone for a weekend of tomato related and other not so fun festivities and decided to post the tomato picking lecture mostly just to see what response this gets and because I wrote it over a month ago.

Here it is.

Since many are in a tomato harvest, I'm going to explain stuff about ripening. You might not like it, but FBGs are supposed to know things.

Tomatoes are climacteric fruit. This means they ripen on their own if removed from the plant during or after a certain maturity stage. At that stage, the tomato has received all it needs or wants from the plant and has formed a membrane blocking all but a little unnecessary water. Water gets through only when the soil is over-saturated and the plant needs to use the fruit as a reservior. This can crack the fruit and dilute the flavor. The fruit is just hanging there requiring nothing more of the plant.

The green ripened tomatoes we curse in grocery stores for watery taste and mealy texture are supposed to be picked at the "mature green stage"; then they're gassed with ethylene to force ripening, which primarily forces "exterior coloring", ripening the tomato from the outside in, rather than inside out (as nature designed), resulting in store bought tasteless tomatoes. They are pretty though.

This mature green stage is when the fruit has (a) reached full size and (b) the blossom end has developed a pale star. Some 80 - 90% of tomatoes at the market are picked at this stage or worse, the "immature green stage", where size is right but the pale star has not formed. No matter how either of these are treated, they will not ripen to full potential, but they sure are easy to handle, package, ship, and store for weeks until they look good to eat. A good tip is to never refrigerate them and give them a few counter or cupboard days at room temp to let the insides catch up to the outside, if possible. You never know if it was picked mature or immature unless you try.

I'll concede that lab tests have proven "mature green" tomatoes carefully monitored in the absence of light at ideal temps, humidity, and gas levels, ripen to the same quality as those picked red ripe off a sun soaked plant. One problem is no facilities practice those exacting expensive ripening measures (though they do go to great lengths in their gas chambers), and harvesting operations are realistically based on size not stage, meaning immature greens, which can never ripen properly (even in a lab), are as common as mature greens in our grocery stores.

The rest of the fresh maters in the store are "vine ripe", which doesn't mean what most people think it means. Most of them are ripened on the vine but not on the plant. The vine/truss/cluster is removed from the plant while holding mostly green tomatoes, then it all gets gassed like, and usually with, the others discussed above --thus, they're ripened "on the vine" which adds a little weight to what you pay for. Read those labels carefully and you may begin to chuckle. Many that appear to be "vine ripe" really are (im)mature greens and the wording, while clever, gives them away.

True 'vine ripe' (even though not ripened on the plant) are better than the immature and mature greens because in order to be labeled 'vine ripe' they're required to be picked at the next stage, the breaker stage, or what some farmers refer to as first blush. Not all "vine ripened" are attached to the vine (that was removed from the plant). They merely need to be picked at the breaker stage to qualify. Why? Technically, climacteric fruit at or past breaker will ripen as nicely as any left on the plant, so the designation is fairly accurate. Fruit picked earlier could not truthfully be called vine ripened. Still most consumers believe they are buying tomatoes that were picked red not green. They're wrong.

So why don't vine ripened supermarket tomatoes taste as good as backyard and farmer's market produce? Two primary reasons. One is the variety of the maters. Commercial cultivars have endured decades of selective breeding isolating disease resistances, heavy yields, meat hardness and skin toughness for mechanical harvesting and handling abuse, extended shelf life, appearance, etc. Most of this genetic work has been at the expense of flavor, though there are a few good tomatoes to be had in regular markets, smaller tomatoes, grape types for sweetness, the bigger cherries for quality open field taste and Camparis (which are the best major market maters out there and it isn't close, just expensive). None of the main crop large tomatoes in the major markets are worth a crap, genetically speaking. Some good ones are starting to get through in major urban areas on a seasonal basis for a premium price, but not as a main crop. The second reason is the gas ripening process hurries a mater that would be fine if left to ripen on its own (post breaker). That's what this post turned essay is all about, btw.

Here's a chart worth a quick look.

The first two are immature and mature green. I would never pick them. The next two are breaker 1 and breaker 2 (first blush). I pick a lot of my larger tomatoes at first blush. They move from first blush to turning to pink (see the chart) so quickly that all my bigger maters are picked during one of those three stages. I never deliberately let them reach red stages on the plant. That would be foolish.

Avocado is a climacteric fruit. I'm sure we've all ripened one on the counter. It was picked past breaker or it wouldn't ripen properly. Do you take them outside and tie them to a plant to ripen? Then why leave tomatoes out past breaker? The belief they improve when left on the plant to get red and juicy is a myth. Only bad things can happen after breaker. Fungal and bacterial disease, worms, caterpillers, a multitude of bugs, filthy flies on them all day, cockroaches crawling on them at night, birds, mice, rats, other rodents, sunscald, windfall, rain induced cracking, irrrigation induced cracking, mineral and nutrient induced cracking, etc. In fact, even if none of the that happens, a tomato left on the plant until dead ripe in summer heat can easily become mushy and pungent tasting.

So educated tomato lovers/growers bring them in at first blush and understand the correct ripening process. Tomatoes begin ripening, they blush, when they start producing ethylene. That's right, the same evil gas used by big ag is produced naturally by the fruit (same with avos, bananas, apples and many others). One key difference is a tomato produces a little gas internally and ripens slowly as it emits from the inside out, while big ag uses a lot of gas externally ripening the outside quickly while the inside stays immature. The best way to ripen your blushed tomatoes is at a cool (65 to 70 degrees) temperature in a dark place unsealed. I clean the fruit thoroughly, dry it, line the bottom of a kitchen drawer with a bath towel, and set the blushed tomatoes in it. They should not be stacked on top of each other more than three high. They should not be bagged or boxed unless they can breathe very freely. Trapping the gas is a little like what big ag does. So is putting them in brown paper bags as often advised. The kitchen counter is better than a bag, not as good as the cool dark drawer. Many perfect tomatoes are ripened on counters or in cupboards. The taste does not suffer if done right and often is improved. Now you know stuff. You still may wish to ripen them outdoors. My 82 year old mom does regardless of this information. Then she's no FBG.

 
Wow, great info here. I always just picked them when they got red. I had no idea they should be picked early. I lose a lot of maters because ants or squirrels chew on them once they are really red. I will now pick them once they blush. May be a little harder to identify form my yellows but still this is great info.

Speaking of picking. I finally got some fungal spray. Something like Daconil or Draconil. I went with the concentrate thankfully because I squirted an entire quart on my maters to coat all the leaves really well. The bottle said that I should not pick the fruit till a week after the stuff has been applied. Is this legit? I figured I could pick them and just wash them really well.

 
Chaos Commish said:
I'm gone for a weekend of tomato related and other not so fun festivities and decided to post the tomato picking lecture mostly just to see what response this gets and because I wrote it over a month ago.

Here it is.

Since many are in a tomato harvest, I'm going to explain stuff about ripening. You might not like it, but FBGs are supposed to know things.

Tomatoes are climacteric fruit. This means they ripen on their own if removed from the plant during or after a certain maturity stage. At that stage, the tomato has received all it needs or wants from the plant and has formed a membrane blocking all but a little unnecessary water. Water gets through only when the soil is over-saturated and the plant needs to use the fruit as a reservior. This can crack the fruit and dilute the flavor. The fruit is just hanging there requiring nothing more of the plant.

The green ripened tomatoes we curse in grocery stores for watery taste and mealy texture are supposed to be picked at the "mature green stage"; then they're gassed with ethylene to force ripening, which primarily forces "exterior coloring", ripening the tomato from the outside in, rather than inside out (as nature designed), resulting in store bought tasteless tomatoes. They are pretty though.

This mature green stage is when the fruit has (a) reached full size and (b) the blossom end has developed a pale star. Some 80 - 90% of tomatoes at the market are picked at this stage or worse, the "immature green stage", where size is right but the pale star has not formed. No matter how either of these are treated, they will not ripen to full potential, but they sure are easy to handle, package, ship, and store for weeks until they look good to eat. A good tip is to never refrigerate them and give them a few counter or cupboard days at room temp to let the insides catch up to the outside, if possible. You never know if it was picked mature or immature unless you try.

I'll concede that lab tests have proven "mature green" tomatoes carefully monitored in the absence of light at ideal temps, humidity, and gas levels, ripen to the same quality as those picked red ripe off a sun soaked plant. One problem is no facilities practice those exacting expensive ripening measures (though they do go to great lengths in their gas chambers), and harvesting operations are realistically based on size not stage, meaning immature greens, which can never ripen properly (even in a lab), are as common as mature greens in our grocery stores.

The rest of the fresh maters in the store are "vine ripe", which doesn't mean what most people think it means. Most of them are ripened on the vine but not on the plant. The vine/truss/cluster is removed from the plant while holding mostly green tomatoes, then it all gets gassed like, and usually with, the others discussed above --thus, they're ripened "on the vine" which adds a little weight to what you pay for. Read those labels carefully and you may begin to chuckle. Many that appear to be "vine ripe" really are (im)mature greens and the wording, while clever, gives them away.

True 'vine ripe' (even though not ripened on the plant) are better than the immature and mature greens because in order to be labeled 'vine ripe' they're required to be picked at the next stage, the breaker stage, or what some farmers refer to as first blush. Not all "vine ripened" are attached to the vine (that was removed from the plant). They merely need to be picked at the breaker stage to qualify. Why? Technically, climacteric fruit at or past breaker will ripen as nicely as any left on the plant, so the designation is fairly accurate. Fruit picked earlier could not truthfully be called vine ripened. Still most consumers believe they are buying tomatoes that were picked red not green. They're wrong.

So why don't vine ripened supermarket tomatoes taste as good as backyard and farmer's market produce? Two primary reasons. One is the variety of the maters. Commercial cultivars have endured decades of selective breeding isolating disease resistances, heavy yields, meat hardness and skin toughness for mechanical harvesting and handling abuse, extended shelf life, appearance, etc. Most of this genetic work has been at the expense of flavor, though there are a few good tomatoes to be had in regular markets, smaller tomatoes, grape types for sweetness, the bigger cherries for quality open field taste and Camparis (which are the best major market maters out there and it isn't close, just expensive). None of the main crop large tomatoes in the major markets are worth a crap, genetically speaking. Some good ones are starting to get through in major urban areas on a seasonal basis for a premium price, but not as a main crop. The second reason is the gas ripening process hurries a mater that would be fine if left to ripen on its own (post breaker). That's what this post turned essay is all about, btw.

Here's a chart worth a quick look.

The first two are immature and mature green. I would never pick them. The next two are breaker 1 and breaker 2 (first blush). I pick a lot of my larger tomatoes at first blush. They move from first blush to turning to pink (see the chart) so quickly that all my bigger maters are picked during one of those three stages. I never deliberately let them reach red stages on the plant. That would be foolish.

Avocado is a climacteric fruit. I'm sure we've all ripened one on the counter. It was picked past breaker or it wouldn't ripen properly. Do you take them outside and tie them to a plant to ripen? Then why leave tomatoes out past breaker? The belief they improve when left on the plant to get red and juicy is a myth. Only bad things can happen after breaker. Fungal and bacterial disease, worms, caterpillers, a multitude of bugs, filthy flies on them all day, cockroaches crawling on them at night, birds, mice, rats, other rodents, sunscald, windfall, rain induced cracking, irrrigation induced cracking, mineral and nutrient induced cracking, etc. In fact, even if none of the that happens, a tomato left on the plant until dead ripe in summer heat can easily become mushy and pungent tasting.

So educated tomato lovers/growers bring them in at first blush and understand the correct ripening process. Tomatoes begin ripening, they blush, when they start producing ethylene. That's right, the same evil gas used by big ag is produced naturally by the fruit (same with avos, bananas, apples and many others). One key difference is a tomato produces a little gas internally and ripens slowly as it emits from the inside out, while big ag uses a lot of gas externally ripening the outside quickly while the inside stays immature. The best way to ripen your blushed tomatoes is at a cool (65 to 70 degrees) temperature in a dark place unsealed. I clean the fruit thoroughly, dry it, line the bottom of a kitchen drawer with a bath towel, and set the blushed tomatoes in it. They should not be stacked on top of each other more than three high. They should not be bagged or boxed unless they can breathe very freely. Trapping the gas is a little like what big ag does. So is putting them in brown paper bags as often advised. The kitchen counter is better than a bag, not as good as the cool dark drawer. Many perfect tomatoes are ripened on counters or in cupboards. The taste does not suffer if done right and often is improved. Now you know stuff. You still may wish to ripen them outdoors. My 82 year old mom does regardless of this information. Then she's no FBG.
Out of curiosity, is this what you do for a living? PM me if you don't feel like sharing.
 
Wow, great info here. I always just picked them when they got red. I had no idea they should be picked early. I lose a lot of maters because ants or squirrels chew on them once they are really red. I will now pick them once they blush. May be a little harder to identify form my yellows but still this is great info.

Speaking of picking. I finally got some fungal spray. Something like Daconil or Draconil. I went with the concentrate thankfully because I squirted an entire quart on my maters to coat all the leaves really well. The bottle said that I should not pick the fruit till a week after the stuff has been applied. Is this legit? I figured I could pick them and just wash them really well.
Never mind. I read the wrong line. It says I can pick the fruit whenever. And thanks again CC on the info on pulling the maters. I had a bunch in between blush and full on red. Yanked about a dozen last night.
 
Bumping this for a couple things. First if you chose a hybrid, all the crosses were successful (where genetics gives us early hints). For example, Siff crossed a potato leaf type with a wispy leaf type and I have regular leaf plants from the seed. That is a successful cross, guaranteed. Fanatic crossed two regular leaf types, so I cannot be sure it was a success (even though I already am). That's right, your hybrids are already growing for a winter crop in the greenhouse. I have them in containers and will be moving them indoors, space available, and when the weather dictates, which generally isn't for another 6-8 weeks around here. So rather than scroll this thread and PM those who chose crosses, hopefully you catch this bump and PM me with with your mailing addresses. If not there's no hurry as my intention is to ship the seed in Christmas cards. Also tell me how many varieties you can realistically grow, and if you're interested in some beefy commercial Bell Pepper seed. I can send as much as a dozen different types of heirloom tomato seeds to each of you along with your hybrids. I don't mind at all. I cannot provide Carmello seed, don't ask why, but It's hardly an extra effort to stick a few more packs of very nice varieties in the envelope with your hybrid. Mention the 'type' (big small medium early sweet tart etc) you prefer in general (I have over a 100 varieties). And if you're interested in the unstable experimental types discussed somewhere in this thread (gorgeous and healthy but maybe not so tasty is the best way to describe them). I also have an unstable purple/black type that might be a real winner if you're interested. Unstable just means the seed is throwing different kinds of fruit. One plant may be medium round smooth and delicious, another might be huge ribbed and disgusting. You stabilize the type by just keeping the one you like, year after year, until it stabilizes. If you're not growing a robust cherry plant, I think you're missing out, btw. It's nice to be able to grab a handful of maters for a snack or salad every single day. I have some varieties that are exceptionally resilient to much of what ailed some of you. :goodposting:

Also I wanted to add something to the long ripening post above. All of that information is for standard harvesting. This time of year as the weather is turning on most you, standard harvesting, waiting for first blush can be a mistake. Bringing in the greenies, as I believe Fanatic explained very early in the thread, ripening them in a bag with an apple or a banana (for extra gas) is perfectly acceptable and better then letting them freeze outdoors overnight. They'll never taste as nice as late summer produce, but they'll still be better than most store bought, and for me, they make lots of paste and sauce that gets canned or frozen by an expert old Italian lady. I've had some take all the way to Christmas to redden up, and some that never do. There are several methods to move the plants along this time of year too. You can "cut the roots" with a spade. Just drive it into the ground about a foot 6 inches from the plant on one side, and that plant will get the message and start ripening the last fruit a little faster. You can remove all the tiny maters that will never make it and prune all growing tips to again send the plant a message to get to ripening. You can do both, like I just did this morning to over 100 nearly spent plants that have half dozen or so maters of decent size I'd rather not cull. We're pulling all the outdoor plants to amend the soil soon so may as well try anything to get those maters.

 
Thanks for all the advice in this thread guys. Particularly you Commish. I have a couple of questions to close out the season that you guys may be able to help me with.

1) We picked up some tulip bulbs in Amsterdam and are going to plant them in a few days. Any reason not to plant them in the soil (miracle grow organic) that held the tomato plants all summer? Is that soil spent now?

2) I want to try to keep the strawberry plants viable over the winter as they are supposed to have a better yield in the second year. I'm seeing some posts on the internet that say the plants need to be covered over the winter to keep from freezing. Mine are in a wooden planter. Any tips on mulching and keeping them alive? Should I try to wrap the whole planter?

I'll be much better prepared for next year thanks to this thread. Hopefully I'll keep the maters from splitting in 2010!

 
Does Nick = ****? :)

Most people won't cover strawberry plants as I understand it. They die all the way back and come on in the spring. A good frost supposedly increases the next year's bloom. There are some geekier studies at actahort (sub req) where some types did better with an overwinter mulch and some didn't. Even then it was best not to cover the plants (with a few inches of straw) until at least one night under 25 degrees. I don't know what that means for the vast strawberry fields in frost free zones in coastal CA. Probably different varieties. I love Alpine Strawberries, the tiny ones that fit three in a teaspoon, but they don't do well here with no frost.

On the tulips, I've read for year that flower bulbs store all the energy they need for the next season, whereas a seed just stores enough to sprout. So technically you could put those bulbs in play sand, add water, and tulips would bloom. Now practical experience says they do respond to better soils and light fertilizing, so take from that what you want. I'm sure the potting mix is fine for tulips, but they bloom through the spring when you should be starting your maters. :(

Also, potting soil and potting mix are two different things. Soil can be depleted in a season and is usually best just tossed in a garden and replaced. Potting mix is soil-less, and can be recharged for years with simple amendments. A slow release fertilizer with minerals will usually do the job. You may need to crank up the calcium if it grew a heavy user in it. A little wood ash does that job. The MG organic is likely a mix, not a soil.

Also bumping this for more addresses.

 
Chaos Commish said:
Does Nick = ****? :)

Most people won't cover strawberry plants as I understand it. They die all the way back and come on in the spring. A good frost supposedly increases the next year's bloom. There are some geekier studies at actahort (sub req) where some types did better with an overwinter mulch and some didn't. Even then it was best not to cover the plants (with a few inches of straw) until at least one night under 25 degrees. I don't know what that means for the vast strawberry fields in frost free zones in coastal CA. Probably different varieties. I love Alpine Strawberries, the tiny ones that fit three in a teaspoon, but they don't do well here with no frost.

On the tulips, I've read for year that flower bulbs store all the energy they need for the next season, whereas a seed just stores enough to sprout. So technically you could put those bulbs in play sand, add water, and tulips would bloom. Now practical experience says they do respond to better soils and light fertilizing, so take from that what you want. I'm sure the potting mix is fine for tulips, but they bloom through the spring when you should be starting your maters. ;)

Also, potting soil and potting mix are two different things. Soil can be depleted in a season and is usually best just tossed in a garden and replaced. Potting mix is soil-less, and can be recharged for years with simple amendments. A slow release fertilizer with minerals will usually do the job. You may need to crank up the calcium if it grew a heavy user in it. A little wood ash does that job. The MG organic is likely a mix, not a soil.

Also bumping this for more addresses.
Thanks Commish. I'm going to go ahead and plant the bulbs in the current tomato pots. I want to start fresh with the tomatoes next year with a more appropriate soil and pot that has better drainage. Controlling the water was the most difficult thing this year.
 
Wish I'd gotten on here and read the info on harvesting at first blush. In my brandywines it looked like I wasn't going to get any of them for most of the summer but I started getting some tomatoes on there in late August and early september with many more blossoms as well. When I finally got some starting to get red I had a few split and get ants/bugs in them and I had several others get taken off the plant by some unidentified larger creature when I could have saved them. As a result I ended up getting a much better harvest out of my silvery fir tree than in recent years but my brandywines didn't do a whole heck of a lot for me due to me losing most of my minimal harvest. I do still have a few tomatoes on there but only one of them is large enough that it has a chance to blush. May pickle a jar of little green guys with some of my chile peppers similar to some I had at a party at a friend's house. All-in-all I learned more in this year of growing than in the previous couple of years combined. Will try to grow all of my tomatoes in self-watering containers next year as it will be easier to keep them consistently watered and I'll put other things in the half barrels. Will have to see exactly how many varieties I'd be able to grow next year and will PM you my address and info. Would definitely be interested in trying anything you have available as I've really been enjoying expanding my garden beyond the few pots of herbs I used to grow in the past. If I start some seedlings and end up with more surviving than I can use I have a few friends that grow huge gardens that may be interested in my extras and would certainly be able to give some good feedback on the hybrids.

As for now, I'll probably pick off the remaining few maters, pull the plants, and put in some winter greens like kale, chard, etc. that will survive with some light mulching. I already have a few chard plants that are doing well but would like to add to them with some things that will work here in the mild winters. Will probably also pull up my basil and add something in there that will survive like some sage or something like that. Around here things had been unseasonably warm with temperatures in the 100's up to about a week ago when it cooled off to where we are now with highs in the 70's and lows in the 50's.

 
Good bump. I did not want to PM everyone. I have not mailed anything yet, because the stuff I said I was waiting for in the PMs still hasn't arrived. I'm sure it will be worth the wait and no one is in a hurry, yet. Southern growers in Florida and parts of Texas start seeds in early January but that's about it.

 
Finally found some campari's on CCs recommendation. I had never seen them at the regular grocery store before. Sam's Club carries them though. Big big difference in flavor and texture between the romas or 'vine-ripened' you usually find. Not any more expensive either. Going to stick with the camparis for my winter tomato fix, I'm a convert :thumbup:

 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.

 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
I'm in NorCal. I'm thinking your climate is colder than mine but even in areas colder than here people can keep some greens going through the winter by building a cold-frame. Basically a glass/plastic covered frame over the plants that protect them from snow or a really, hard frost. Some plants like kale apparently taste better after it frosts. Not sure what books to recommend. I'd have to look through my books and see where I read up on winter gardening.
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
I'm in the Chicago area and will be starting my seedlings indoors at the end of Feb/start of March.
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
My g/f and I had some success with our first garden last year. We just took an old bookcase, flipped it over, lined it with industrial trash bags and poked holes in the bottom.We planted basil, squash and cucumbers. The basil came up fantastically. We had tons of it. We also got a decent number of cucumbers and only one squash but this was a small (4x3) bookcase and our first time around. We moved to a different place which will allow me to make a much larger raised bed so we should have better spacing between plants. Also, we'll be starting seedlings indoors this year which we didn't do last year.

Here is very useful chart I just came across which is a guide as to when to start planting seedlings depending on where you live:

When to start seedlings

We are now on the second floor of a 2 family so I think we may plant herbs on the deck and have larger stuff down below in the raised bed. This way we can step right out on the deck and pick from that when we want to cook.

 
My seed mailer, which included all the FBGs who wanted to participate, also included dozens of other gardeners and growers. There was right at 100 bright red envelopes addressed, stamped, and stuffed by me with labels and seed pouches (mini baggies). Not all the pouches were filled, but they were all labeled. The seed at my house was put in pouches. The envelopes were then delivered to my greenhouse with instructions to fill the empties and put them in the mail. I was told it was done that day. I immediately started getting thank yous here and elsewhere from those who got their seed. But it now seems several have not received any. No FBGs have mentioned it, but I am curious. I have 11 others who should have seed but don't from a seed exchange I participate in.

Any complaints here?

A couple three of you have asked a couple times about how best to start the seed. I promised one in a PM that I would post what I think is the best approach tonight. It is a little different. I am not a big fan of peat or peat pellets or starting mixes that are over 50% peat. So, I will post here for all instead of in PM. Please let me know if you have the hybrid seed. I am putting together one more small mailer so it's no bother. Most of you should be starting seed mid to late Feb., but if you're conscientious you can certainly start it any time now.

 
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Haven't received it, I didn't want to bring it up as I figured you were busy, but I have been hoping every time I get the mail :lmao:

 
Chaos Commish said:
My seed mailer, which included all the FBGs who wanted to participate, also included dozens of other gardeners and growers. There was right at 100 bright red envelopes addressed, stamped, and stuffed by me with labels and seed pouches (mini baggies). Not all the pouches were filled, but they were all labeled. The seed at my house was put in pouches. The envelopes were then delivered to my greenhouse with instructions to fill the empties and put them in the mail. I was told it was done that day. I immediately started getting thank yous here and elsewhere from those who got their seed. But it now seems several have not received any. No FBGs have mentioned it, but I am curious. I have 11 others who should have seed but don't from a seed exchange I participate in. Any complaints here?A couple three of you have asked a couple times about how best to start the seed. I promised one in a PM that I would post what I think is the best approach tonight. It is a little different. I am not a big fan of peat or peat pellets or starting mixes that are over 50% peat. So, I will post here for all instead of in PM. Please let me know if you have the hybrid seed. I am putting together one more small mailer so it's no bother. Most of you should be starting seed mid to late Feb., but if you're conscientious you can certainly start it any time now.
I might be interested in some seeds, but I'm not sure I have the interior real estate to make it happen. I will await your tutorial and PM if I think I can make it happen.
 
Chaos Commish said:
My seed mailer, which included all the FBGs who wanted to participate, also included dozens of other gardeners and growers. There was right at 100 bright red envelopes addressed, stamped, and stuffed by me with labels and seed pouches (mini baggies). Not all the pouches were filled, but they were all labeled. The seed at my house was put in pouches. The envelopes were then delivered to my greenhouse with instructions to fill the empties and put them in the mail. I was told it was done that day. I immediately started getting thank yous here and elsewhere from those who got their seed. But it now seems several have not received any. No FBGs have mentioned it, but I am curious. I have 11 others who should have seed but don't from a seed exchange I participate in. Any complaints here?A couple three of you have asked a couple times about how best to start the seed. I promised one in a PM that I would post what I think is the best approach tonight. It is a little different. I am not a big fan of peat or peat pellets or starting mixes that are over 50% peat. So, I will post here for all instead of in PM. Please let me know if you have the hybrid seed. I am putting together one more small mailer so it's no bother. Most of you should be starting seed mid to late Feb., but if you're conscientious you can certainly start it any time now.
CC: I got mine last week. I've been re-miss in not sending a thanks earlier. Thanks so much! I'm looking into having either a neighbor who has a greenhouse start the seeds next month or have a professional grower start them for me. I'm really looking forward to my summer garden. And your efforts at the hybrid seed are very much appreciated. It is going to be AWESOME growing a wide variety of maters this summer.In addition to the seeds I've made a few of your recipes...the Thanksgiving soup and the crab cakes. Both have been amazing...I think I'll make your burgers for the Superbowl. Good work...for me you are one who adds much to this board.
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
I'm in the Chicago area and will be starting my seedlings indoors at the end of Feb/start of March.
Your seeds that went to the desert have been received and will be started this weekend. Like Siff, I have been remiss in letting you know. The Rosso Bruno F3s you have are a smallish plant, but ours are loaded with greenies in the greenhouse right now. I suspect these are going to be very very high quality from the looks of things. A good 40 days or so to mature yet. I don't know how much I shared with you about them when you were choosing, but basically, the great black tomatoes have terrible shelf lives and unsightly blemishing. These were bred to overcome both without losing the great color and taste. F2s were carefully selected for this generation I am growing and you will be soon. I'm pretty interested in your report on those even though they were just a bonus. The 'possible' Pachinos you chose are having some health issues, but I'll wait for your report on them too. They may be better off outdoors. Let's hope. zander and yuk... two Californians. Hmm, over half of the missing seed from the other exchange are also Californians. :lmao:

 
I might be interested in some seeds, but I'm not sure I have the interior real estate to make it happen. I will await your tutorial and PM if I think I can make it happen.
The seed being discussed here is a closed offer, sorry. I just didn't want to PM every one again. Do you have any outdoor space with at least six hours of sun starting in May? Growing maters indoors, not greenhouse style, but house house style is a major project. I would refer you to pot growing forums and hope you don't mind spending a grand for a few pounds of tasteless tomatoes. With other crops, a few pounds actually pays off. :lmao:If you have a little sunny spot outdoors, you would be amazed how well a couple plants can do there in a container. I know a few NYers growing successfully on balconies. If so describe it to me in PM and I might slip something your way in the 'last' mailer.
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
I'm in the Chicago area and will be starting my seedlings indoors at the end of Feb/start of March.
Your seeds that went to the desert have been received and will be started this weekend. Like Siff, I have been remiss in letting you know. The Rosso Bruno F3s you have are a smallish plant, but ours are loaded with greenies in the greenhouse right now. I suspect these are going to be very very high quality from the looks of things. A good 40 days or so to mature yet. I don't know how much I shared with you about them when you were choosing, but basically, the great black tomatoes have terrible shelf lives and unsightly blemishing. These were bred to overcome both without losing the great color and taste. F2s were carefully selected for this generation I am growing and you will be soon. I'm pretty interested in your report on those even though they were just a bonus. The 'possible' Pachinos you chose are having some health issues, but I'll wait for your report on them too. They may be better off outdoors. Let's hope. zander and yuk... two Californians. Hmm, over half of the missing seed from the other exchange are also Californians. :lmao:
I'm actually Minnesota, did I give you the right address?
 
Wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone else out there still gardening. I used to think that once winter hit that gardening was through but this year I decided to try to do some winter crops and have been shocked at how well it is doing here. It is almost easier to grow things here in January than it is in the summer and I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't tried it. I've got spinach, kale, sugar snap peas, arugala, and some mixed salad greens going and have been getting salad greens from these plants all winter despite us having a couple of pretty hard frosts (tons of broken pipes around town with temps lower than I've seen in a dozen years here). The peas are just vines right now but I've gotten some great salad greens out of everything else. Next year I'll expand my efforts and put in some cabbages, broccoli, and other plants that do well in the cold.
What area are you in? I'm wondering if that would work in Ohio as well. I have never gardened (nor really had the desire until now) before and am pretty clueless about all this. I'm hoping to start an organic garden in the backyard but I'm pretty sure I have a lot of research and work to do! I don't even know when to start preparing the ground/making the garden area or what vegetables/fruits/herbs to plant and when. This should be interesting!Anyone have any tips (links, books, general advice, etc.) to help someone who has never attempted to garden before?
I'm in the Chicago area and will be starting my seedlings indoors at the end of Feb/start of March.
Your seeds that went to the desert have been received and will be started this weekend. Like Siff, I have been remiss in letting you know. The Rosso Bruno F3s you have are a smallish plant, but ours are loaded with greenies in the greenhouse right now. I suspect these are going to be very very high quality from the looks of things. A good 40 days or so to mature yet. I don't know how much I shared with you about them when you were choosing, but basically, the great black tomatoes have terrible shelf lives and unsightly blemishing. These were bred to overcome both without losing the great color and taste. F2s were carefully selected for this generation I am growing and you will be soon. I'm pretty interested in your report on those even though they were just a bonus. The 'possible' Pachinos you chose are having some health issues, but I'll wait for your report on them too. They may be better off outdoors. Let's hope. zander and yuk... two Californians. Hmm, over half of the missing seed from the other exchange are also Californians. :confused:
Thanx CC. Curious how those seeds will do in the hands of a professional.
 
I might be interested in some seeds, but I'm not sure I have the interior real estate to make it happen. I will await your tutorial and PM if I think I can make it happen.
The seed being discussed here is a closed offer, sorry. I just didn't want to PM every one again. Do you have any outdoor space with at least six hours of sun starting in May? Growing maters indoors, not greenhouse style, but house house style is a major project. I would refer you to pot growing forums and hope you don't mind spending a grand for a few pounds of tasteless tomatoes. With other crops, a few pounds actually pays off. :confused:If you have a little sunny spot outdoors, you would be amazed how well a couple plants can do there in a container. I know a few NYers growing successfully on balconies. If so describe it to me in PM and I might slip something your way in the 'last' mailer.
I do have outdoor space, for the plants. (You were very helpful in this thread with my plants this past summer under my old name **** Vermeil, before it was changed by force1) I was more concerned with indoor space for starting the seeds. No worries. Maybe next season I'll make the list!
 
I might be interested in some seeds, but I'm not sure I have the interior real estate to make it happen. I will await your tutorial and PM if I think I can make it happen.
The seed being discussed here is a closed offer, sorry. I just didn't want to PM every one again. Do you have any outdoor space with at least six hours of sun starting in May? Growing maters indoors, not greenhouse style, but house house style is a major project. I would refer you to pot growing forums and hope you don't mind spending a grand for a few pounds of tasteless tomatoes. With other crops, a few pounds actually pays off. :thumbup:If you have a little sunny spot outdoors, you would be amazed how well a couple plants can do there in a container. I know a few NYers growing successfully on balconies. If so describe it to me in PM and I might slip something your way in the 'last' mailer.
I do have outdoor space, for the plants. (You were very helpful in this thread with my plants this past summer under my old name **** Vermeil, before it was changed by force1) I was more concerned with indoor space for starting the seeds. No worries. Maybe next season I'll make the list!
I remember now. I don't want to make another public offering because I'm tired of organizing stuff and didn't expect the hassle of lost mail, but PM me an address. I am sending mail off again, so what's one more to a fellow FBG, right?You can start a half dozen varieties in the space taken by a six pack of beer and a desk lamp. In fact that will be in my instructions tonight. Use a very small easy to control space. I plant intensively, and I start seed intensively. I'll put 30 seeds in one 2"x2" cell and all 30 will grow into mature plants. More later.Ditka, I had you send to my bro in law because of the peppers. He's hardly a pro, but he did great with my homemade containers last year, and he does have a small greenhouse to start them in now. We built a 10x18 footer for $250. Everyone with the space should do this.
 
Should i stop by the post office and see if they are starting seeds for me?? :thumbup:
It is a shame yours are in the last stack. You could have started weeks ago. Sorry man. I had good intentions and the good thing about your climate is early, late, any old time will do. This is what was supposed to be in your mailer:Pruden’s Purple X Porter’s Dark Cherry F1 hybrid seed crossed summer 09Pruden’s PurpleOP Heirloom Ind, PL, pink beefteaksGreen DoctorsOP, modern heirloom, Ind, rl green cherriesPink Berkley Tie DyeModern heirloomBicolor striped, medMidseason, ind, rlCherokee PurpleOP heirloomInd, rl, lg beefsteakAnanas NoireOP modern heirloomBlack multicolor bfstkInd, rl midI think that's a sublime selection myself, but I offered Yuk the opportunity to make requests in PM, so you can do the same before I stuff the envelope. I have over 200 varieties at the moment, and I'm not listing, so if there's something you want suggest it and you may be surprised. Green Doctors are excellent and unique cherries, but you may want to trade them something a little easier to identify when ripe. They stay green. Which is cool in salads, and they are very sweet... green. You don't have a single red tomato on that list. Their all pink or purple/black other than the green when ripe cherry.
 
I have an empty 20 gallon fish tank in the unfinished side of my basement with the light on top. Gonna start mine in there. I'm thinking of pulling up the trellis on the other side of my shed that does not get much sun after mid June and sinking it on the other side of my shed that gets all the sun. That way I can do 8-10 plants instead of just the five I did last year that sucked because of the disease.

 
Should i stop by the post office and see if they are starting seeds for me?? :hot:
It is a shame yours are in the last stack. You could have started weeks ago. Sorry man. I had good intentions and the good thing about your climate is early, late, any old time will do. This is what was supposed to be in your mailer:Pruden's Purple X Porter's Dark Cherry F1 hybrid seed crossed summer 09Pruden's PurpleOP Heirloom Ind, PL, pink beefteaksGreen DoctorsOP, modern heirloom, Ind, rl green cherriesPink Berkley Tie DyeModern heirloomBicolor striped, medMidseason, ind, rlCherokee PurpleOP heirloomInd, rl, lg beefsteakAnanas NoireOP modern heirloomBlack multicolor bfstkInd, rl midI think that's a sublime selection myself, but I offered Yuk the opportunity to make requests in PM, so you can do the same before I stuff the envelope. I have over 200 varieties at the moment, and I'm not listing, so if there's something you want suggest it and you may be surprised. Green Doctors are excellent and unique cherries, but you may want to trade them something a little easier to identify when ripe. They stay green. Which is cool in salads, and they are very sweet... green. You don't have a single red tomato on that list. Their all pink or purple/black other than the green when ripe cherry.
AWESOME list!!I wouldn't change a thing. heck, who needs reds? I can get those and would rather amaze the neighbors and family with some of theses heirlooms anyway!
 
CC, what does the last code mean on these slips of paper (RL)? I understand the first 2 to mean size and fruit maturity, correct?

 
After the great flood of 09 that wiped out a good portion of my crop, I think I'm gonna go the "Earthtainer" route this year.

Anybody ever grow Cukes vertically?

 
After the great flood of 09 that wiped out a good portion of my crop, I think I'm gonna go the "Earthtainer" route this year. Anybody ever grow Cukes vertically?
Somewhere in this thread of yours that got me into this mess... dude... :confused: I mention a very efficient garden my daughter wants to imitate this year. Giant sunflower plants with vining cukes running up their stalks. It was an impressive use of space and the cukes looked good and healthy six seven feet off the grown. I have not done this but it didn't look difficult. I'm going to try this year with small melons and cukes (on the sunflower stalks) if I can forgo a little mater space. Ditka, RL = Regular Leaf. Maters come in RL, PL potato leaf, and RG rugose leaf. Your Orange Oxheart is RG, the least common. Most hearts are RG. PL is common to the Brandywines and a few other 'storied' varieties. They are considered by some to produce a hardier indeterminate plant. I disagree with that. They are prettier when healthy though. RL is the dominant gene so almost all hybrids are RL. And since maters have been crossing naturally for centuries, RL is about 10xs as common. I think the lower number of PLs is the attraction some have to them. The heaviest producers are all RLs.
 
After the great flood of 09 that wiped out a good portion of my crop, I think I'm gonna go the "Earthtainer" route this year. Anybody ever grow Cukes vertically?
Somewhere in this thread of yours that got me into this mess... dude... :thumbup: I mention a very efficient garden my daughter wants to imitate this year. Giant sunflower plants with vining cukes running up their stalks. It was an impressive use of space and the cukes looked good and healthy six seven feet off the grown. I have not done this but it didn't look difficult. I'm going to try this year with small melons and cukes (on the sunflower stalks) if I can forgo a little mater space. Ditka, RL = Regular Leaf. Maters come in RL, PL potato leaf, and RG rugose leaf. Your Orange Oxheart is RG, the least common. Most hearts are RG. PL is common to the Brandywines and a few other 'storied' varieties. They are considered by some to produce a hardier indeterminate plant. I disagree with that. They are prettier when healthy though. RL is the dominant gene so almost all hybrids are RL. And since maters have been crossing naturally for centuries, RL is about 10xs as common. I think the lower number of PLs is the attraction some have to them. The heaviest producers are all RLs.
I was aware of regular leaf and potato leaf, never heard of rugose though. I'm assuming it's similar to a regular leaf since I never noticed the difference. I did grow a certain strain called Zapotec last year that had the potato leaf which is noticeably different. The fruit had an interesting rippled or wrinkled appearance to it. Unfortunately, I didn't save any seeds from it.
 

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