My Urban Garden (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

How to start tomato seeds...

You do not have to do it my way. I don't even do it my way, but then I start way more than you. Mine look something like this. If I was starting the seeds I sent (or will send) you guys, I would do them just like that, but in individual cups since I only had a half dozen or so varieties to do. There's about 500 little maters in that picture. Just in case you're interested, here's a few more pics of that method that are self explanatory.

Flat filled with dry mix sown with about 30 seeds per cell

Flats covered in plastic wrap and germinating seed

Uncovered a couple weeks later

It's intensive. I do not use a window for light. I use two two bulb four foot shoplights hung low over the seedlings.

This funny looking mess is exactly how I advise you guys to set up.

Flourescent lights 2-3" from the seedlings running 16 hours a day is ideal for the plants. Better than just about anything, way better than a south facing window, and nearly equal to an environmentally controlled greenhouse. My home set up, similar to that last pic but a little neater, is on the top shelf of the guest bedroom closet. Close the doors and no one knows they're there, a thousand or more of them. I check on them once a day. I've used a regular short lamp with a screw in flourescent, and I've used a desk lamp with a very small tube. They all do great as long as the plants are very close to the light. Standard bulbs will not work, too hot, burn the plants.

My set up looks more like this, if it was high in a closet, but I wanted to post that other one because it is just as effective for the number of plants you guys are starting, and that simple really.

This is as good a tutorial as I can find online. I'm going to end this post now and hope you guys at least skim through it. I'll simplify each of the 9 steps and the common problems in my next post. If you're like me pictures are more helpful than paragraphs, so I figured a post like this to start would be helpful.

 

[ditka85]

How to start tomato seeds...

You do not have to do it my way. I don't even do it my way, but then I start way more than you. Mine look something like this. If I was starting the seeds I sent (or will send) you guys, I would do them just like that, but in individual cups since I only had a half dozen or so varieties to do. There's about 500 little maters in that picture. Just in case you're interested, here's a few more pics of that method that are self explanatory.

Flat filled with dry mix sown with about 30 seeds per cell

Flats covered in plastic wrap and germinating seed

Uncovered a couple weeks later

It's intensive. I do not use a window for light. I use two two bulb four foot shoplights hung low over the seedlings.

This funny looking mess is exactly how I advise you guys to set up.

Flourescent lights 2-3" from the seedlings running 16 hours a day is ideal for the plants. Better than just about anything, way better than a south facing window, and nearly equal to an environmentally controlled greenhouse. My home set up, similar to that last pic but a little neater, is on the top shelf of the guest bedroom closet. Close the doors and no one knows they're there, a thousand or more of them. I check on them once a day. I've used a regular short lamp with a screw in flourescent, and I've used a desk lamp with a very small tube. They all do great as long as the plants are very close to the light. Standard bulbs will not work, too hot, burn the plants.

My set up looks more like this, if it was high in a closet, but I wanted to post that other one because it is just as effective for the number of plants you guys are starting, and that simple really.

This is as good a tutorial as I can find online. I'm going to end this post now and hope you guys at least skim through it. I'll simplify each of the 9 steps and the common problems in my next post. If you're like me pictures are more helpful than paragraphs, so I figured a post like this to start would be helpful.

I've never seen that before. You just drop a bunch of seeds on top of the soil in each cell? How do you separate them later without damaging roots?

 

[Chaos Commish]

I've never seen that before. You just drop a bunch of seeds on top of the soil in each cell? How do you separate them later without damaging roots?

Patience, grasshopper.I barely cover the seed, as does Craig, who took those pictures. He sells thousands of plants every year with that set up. I'll add this now and be back soon. Tomato seedlings are tough and they have some counter intuitive reactions to certain treatment.

 

[zander_s]

More excellent info as usual!!

 

[Chaos Commish]

Before going through the gardenweb tutorial. I want to type stream of consciousness instructions so you know how simple this is.

With a sharpie label dixie cups with the names of the tomatoes you want to grow. With a razor make a half inch slice in the bottom of each cup. Fill one cup with moistened seed starting mix for each plant that you want to grow. lightly tamp down the surface and place three seeds of the labeled variety in each cup. Cover the seeds lightly with dry seed starting mix. Using a spray bottle mist the seed cover with warm water. Cover cups loosely with plastic wrap. Place cups in a tray of some kind in a south facing window or anywhere you want. Warmer is better at this stage. In three to five days seedlings will emerge. As soon as the first one emerges remove plastic and place all under a bright florescent light for 16 hours a day. Water lightly with a mist at this time. Keep seedlings barely moist. When they have their first true leaves, not the helicopter top cotyledons that appeared after sprouting, fill one 12 oz plastic cup, slit on the bottom, with MG organic potting mix for each plant. If you have more than one you want to keep in a dixie cup, gently separate them with a fork and pot each into the new larger cups. Gently water each until a few drops come out of the bottom slits. Continue with the daily 16 hours of light, but cooler is now better for nice stocky plants. A cool basement, a garage between 50 and 60 degrees but never under 40 works great. Even moving them to a cool place during the day, if that is an option, is helpful. It's just six or so cups and a light. Do not over water them, wait until they are nearly dry and give them small drinks that do not leak out of the bottom. You can water them from the bottom by putting just a little water in their tray and they will soak it up. But never soak the plants. After six to ten weeks, depending on your weather, start introducing them to outdoor conditions. A couple days of just a couple hours of sunlight and a couple hours of shade. A couple more days of about 4 hours of sunlight. If the weather is great let them have more. If it is not going to under 40 at night, let them spend a night outdoors. By then you can plant them where you want. I like to let them spend a day or two in their container where I intend to plant them, but the sun can dry the containers out very quickly so be careful.

Questions?

 

[Scarpaggio]

He's hardly a pro, but he did great with my homemade containers last year, and he does have a small greenhouse to start them in now. We built a 10x18 footer for $250. Everyone with the space should do this.

I'm interested in how you made the greenhouse. I'd like to set one up, but don't think I can manage the 10x18 foot space, and I don't know if I really need one in South Alabama.

 

[Chaos Commish]

He's hardly a pro, but he did great with my homemade containers last year, and he does have a small greenhouse to start them in now. We built a 10x18 footer for $250. Everyone with the space should do this.

I'm interested in how you made the greenhouse. I'd like to set one up, but don't think I can manage the 10x18 foot space, and I don't know if I really need one in South Alabama.

A Harbor Freight greenhouse that size runs $2500. So to do it that cheap we made a PVC hoophose/high tunnel and covered it with two layers of Husky construction grade 4 mil plastic. The plastic cost about $40. True greenhouse film would have been about $300. Our $40 plastic will probably only last one or two seasons, but this is a temporary winter structure. We followed these instructions with lots of budget minded modifications. No frame for the floor, just stakes in the ground. No lumber for the purlins (long horizontal braces and several diagonals), all 1" schedule 40 PVC above ground conduit. The 20 footers were 3.75 each at Lowes. The stakes were cut from 1/2" PVC and on 3' centers, so it can be any length you want from 9' up. This may sound cheesy, but the conduit is gray, not white, and we duct taped all the joints. So we can just cut them free when we tear it down and have a stack of pipe stowed away that turns into a roomy greenhouse every winter. The tape matches the pipe and you cannot tell it is taped up unless you give it a good look from the inside. It is really strong because of the diagonals duct tape or not. 30 mph winds haven't touched it. The roof line is 7.5 feet so it's pretty spacious. The floor is black plastic to absorb heat and the north wall has two 5x8 mylar emergency blankets to reflect light. The tables are also covered in mylar blankets so it is incredibly bright in there when the sun is out, which is most of the time. The biggest expense was a propane heater rig for about $60 not counting the tank we borrowed from a grill. I also rigged up some xmas light heaters that did surprisingly well. Slide the lights into long drainage tubes, seal them and the tubes radiate all the heat from that captured light energy. We kept it above freezing on several nights near 20 degrees with just the xmas lights. My bro in law is very proud of it and my sis, who is a neat freak doesn't mind it at all. It looks pretty sharp. I even built a PVC door. Anyway, that link is a good start.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Commenting on the gardenweb tutorial...

1. Get seeds. Done.

2. Get seed starting mix and moisten it with warm water. All seed starting mixes are pretty similar. If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite, I think you'll have a little better results. It's okay to start seed in sifted potting mix, but if it's one with time released fertilizer in the mix that can be rough on young sprouts. I do fine with sifted Miracle Grow Choice Organic Potting Mix but I hit it hard with boiling water to leach some of the ferts out before using it for seeds. The truth is three to four week old seedlings love that slow release fertilizer, but the tender babes can be fried by it. I use a homemade blend of cactus mix and bark fines more often than anything else. No peat, no vermiculite. They both retain water so well that they encourage damping off. THE KILLER OF SEEDLINGS, and your only worry. But any seed mix will do. Okay, Jiffy is my least favorite. If you want to use peat pellets, that's fine too. Just do not over water and always let them breathe.

3. Select containers. You can use a little Jiffy greenhouse, or a little cell flat like in those pictures, but I advise individual cups, little dixie cups to start, larger 12 oz plastic cups for the first potting. You'd actually be fine if you only used the larger cups for the whole process if you wanted. I prefer the dixie cups or larger cups simpy because they are larger. If overwatered they absorb better and have depth for drainage. If under watered the don't dry out so fast. Margarine tubs, yogurt containers, they all work. I like the plastic clamshell containers the deli section of your grocer uses for baked goods better than plastic wrap for covering the containers. By some cookies or muffins in containers tall enough to hold your dixie cups and you are better than the Jiffy greenhouse. Always poke drainage holes in your container, or slit them like I mentioned before. I like the way the slits hold soil and drain water, personally.

4. Determine when to start. Done.

5. Plant seeds. Fill container with moist seed starting mix. Tamp down lightly. Drop in a seed or three. Cover lightly with seed starting mix. Mist lightly with warm water. Cover with plastic or place in covered container.

6. Wait. Yeah keep the seeds warm and they'll pop up in less than a week almost every time. The cover should keep them moist, even recycle a little water through evaporation and condensation and dripping, but if you don't notice humid conditions inside the plastic, mist lightly again. Too much water cause damping off and kills everything. Too little water just delays germination. Too little water is your friend.

7. Put sprouts under light. I think we've covered this. Bright light, close to the plants, 16 hours a day, several options for setting this up, use flourescents.

8. Monitor plants. You're just raising them. Remember, better to let them dry out than saturate them. If you can get them in some cool weather between 50 and 60 degrees for several hours a day, you will have stocky plants with strong root systems. House temps tend to encourage lots of stem and leaf growth you'd rather avoid for a few weeks. Those stocky plants you see in nurseries were all cool weather treated for a couple weeks. They fertilize them too. I covered that in the other post where you move them from seed starting mix in a small dixie cup to a larger cup with the MG organic mix. That stuff has all the ferts they need before planting.

9. Harden off plants. Simple process. Slowly introduce them to outside conditions for about a week, then plant.

Common problems. Damping off is the only thing I worry about. Just do not overwater. Add some dry mix to the cups every couple days as they grow to keep the leaves close to the surface. Spray with chamomile tea if you lose a couple.

That's it. Really simple. I have dozens of volunteer plants pop up every year without any of this attention.

 

[ditka85]

If anyone is interested, here's a link on How to build a light rack. What's nice about it is you can break it down to store away after use.

 

[Chaos Commish]

How to start tomato seeds...

You do not have to do it my way. I don't even do it my way, but then I start way more than you. Mine look something like this. If I was starting the seeds I sent (or will send) you guys, I would do them just like that, but in individual cups since I only had a half dozen or so varieties to do. There's about 500 little maters in that picture. Just in case you're interested, here's a few more pics of that method that are self explanatory.

Flat filled with dry mix sown with about 30 seeds per cell

Flats covered in plastic wrap and germinating seed

Uncovered a couple weeks later

It's intensive. I do not use a window for light. I use two two bulb four foot shoplights hung low over the seedlings.

This funny looking mess is exactly how I advise you guys to set up.

Flourescent lights 2-3" from the seedlings running 16 hours a day is ideal for the plants. Better than just about anything, way better than a south facing window, and nearly equal to an environmentally controlled greenhouse. My home set up, similar to that last pic but a little neater, is on the top shelf of the guest bedroom closet. Close the doors and no one knows they're there, a thousand or more of them. I check on them once a day. I've used a regular short lamp with a screw in flourescent, and I've used a desk lamp with a very small tube. They all do great as long as the plants are very close to the light. Standard bulbs will not work, too hot, burn the plants.

My set up looks more like this, if it was high in a closet, but I wanted to post that other one because it is just as effective for the number of plants you guys are starting, and that simple really.

This is as good a tutorial as I can find online. I'm going to end this post now and hope you guys at least skim through it. I'll simplify each of the 9 steps and the common problems in my next post. If you're like me pictures are more helpful than paragraphs, so I figured a post like this to start would be helpful.

I've never seen that before. You just drop a bunch of seeds on top of the soil in each cell? How do you separate them later without damaging roots?

There's a couple geeky pieces of research out there I might share if I dig around for them and find them available for free. They involve the advantages of damaging the plants to make them stronger. No kidding. There's two types of beneficial abuse - counter intuitive reactions by the young plants make them healthier. One has been observed for decades and only recently got a scientific explanation of the reaction. Harsh transplanting. If you have 30 seedlings crowded into a 2" cell getting them out and into individual containers seems a little rough. I prepare 30 containers, spread out some newspaper, remove the clump of seedlings from the cell and gently break up the clump, isolating each stem and trying to save as much root as possible but doing plenty of damage. The stems are buried deep in the new containers so the cotyledons are buried and only the first leaves are above the soil. The reaction of the plant is interesting. First a little shock and it will sit there and do nothing for as long as a week. Then a plant that was just developing a rootball forms a new kind of root all along that stem. A huge mass of horizontal runners grow from every inch of the stem. The stabilize the plant later in windy conditions and the sheer mass of new root growth also allows the plant to get larger and produce more. These runners do not form without the harsh transplanting treatment. Field sown seed does not achieve this root development. So even though you do not use my intensive method, rough your seedling up a little when they go from their small dixie cup to the larger plastic cup, or it even works when they go from the container to the earth or earthbox. Transplanting with some root damage causes a very beneficial reaction in the plant.

The other is called super-cropping. It is controversial, but I have seen it work a few times and only seen it fail when way overdone. It involves pinching the young stem between your fingers and rolling it back and forth enough to crush some of the cell tissues. Again it will be in shock for a little while, but when it comes back it is now producing an abundance of a chemical (amino acid) that wards off bugs and fights other leaf disease. It will produce this stuff way more than your other plants for its entire life. Very cool actually. I have done it by mistake many times, stepping on a young plant or whatever, and they are usually great plants down the road. Weird, I know, but interesting.

Anyway, separating 30 from a clump is no big deal, happens fast, I work with a fork, and I probably lose less than one plant per group of 30. One of the other things I like about this is the high germination per cell. Some seed just doesn't germinate like others, so if most cells have 30, but a few only have ten, at least they have ten instead of zero.

Honestly, if I had the seed I sent you, I would dump half or more of each pouch into individual cups and separate them from the clump when ready and raise all of them in larger cups and give away what I couldn't grow, saving the most robust plants for my own garden. You're getting 8-15 seeds of each variety and a half dozen varieties. The seed I don't sow isn't saved for next year, it's backup for this year should something go wrong. Of course, I am happy to deal with a few dozen cups of plants. ymmv.

 

[siffoin]

When you say florescent light...do I need to get "grow light"...or will any florescent tube bulb work? Tell me which is BEST as I'll have to buy it anyways.

 

[ditka85]

When you say florescent light...do I need to get "grow light"...or will any florescent tube bulb work? Tell me which is BEST as I'll have to buy it anyways.

Don't waste your money on "grow" lights. I've always used cool or warm white 40W fluorescents.

 

[Chaos Commish]

When you say florescent light...do I need to get "grow light"...or will any florescent tube bulb work? Tell me which is BEST as I'll have to buy it anyways.

Don't waste your money on "grow" lights. I've always used cool or warm white 40W fluorescents.

Agreed. A combination of cool and warm seems to get great reviews. Grow lights are too hot and fry seedlings. If you want to grow mature plants indoors, like the pot growers, you're going to need the power of grow lights. Florescent lights will not produce flowers and fruits, but that's not our goal here. Seedlings prefer cheap florescent light as long as they get plenty of it, close up. Four foot shop lights are 12 bucks at Home Depot. I consider them the Mercedes of this type of project. You cannot get better with more money. Most standard bulbs will be fine, but I do use one 'daylight' 6500kelvin and one regular bulb. I also rotate the seedlings every two or three days so they are directly under both light spectrums an equal amount of time. But this is all unnecessary. I just like experimenting and observing. I have not observed a benefit to the higher kelvin, but I still like the 'daylight' idea and recommend those bulbs if the price is just a buck or two more like here.Fanatic. Your aquarium will work fine, but you need to raise the seedlings so they are close to the light source somehow. I would use plastic containers to set them on because of the humidity (wood would get moist and possibly grow some mold or something, bricks are an option, but scratch glass). I would also get a cheap ($3) emergency blanket (reflective), in the camping section at Walmart, and line the inside of the aquarium for a seriously cool little grow room. My upper closet shelf is lined with these. Tin foil is not reflective enough to bother with. As the plants grow, lower them. By the time they fill the aquarium, they will be ready for transplanting. Be sure they can breathe and have some air flow.

Ah! I forgot a little gem of advice.. Once the seedlings are a few inches high and have four or more leaves, a gentle fan blowing over them, think spring breeze, strengthens their stems and ventilates the area (helps ward off any damping issues too). I have a small fan on that closet shelf, from an old computer, and we use oscillating fans over the commercial seedlings in the greenhouse. The fan does create a need for more water. Just know the best time to water is when they are very dry.

The biggest mistakes people make, are too much water, too little light, too much water, too much fertilizer and too much water. I do not water until after they sprout and get good and dry. I water with a mister for about three weeks, then graduate to a squirt gun.

 

[siffoin]

When you say florescent light...do I need to get "grow light"...or will any florescent tube bulb work? Tell me which is BEST as I'll have to buy it anyways.

Don't waste your money on "grow" lights. I've always used cool or warm white 40W fluorescents.

Agreed. A combination of cool and warm seems to get great reviews. Grow lights are too hot and fry seedlings. If you want to grow mature plants indoors, like the pot growers, you're going to need the power of grow lights. Florescent lights will not produce flowers and fruits, but that's not our goal here. Seedlings prefer cheap florescent light as long as they get plenty of it, close up. Four foot shop lights are 12 bucks at Home Depot. I consider them the Mercedes of this type of project. You cannot get better with more money. Most standard bulbs will be fine, but I do use one 'daylight' 6500kelvin and one regular bulb. I also rotate the seedlings every two or three days so they are directly under both light spectrums an equal amount of time. But this is all unnecessary. I just like experimenting and observing. I have not observed a benefit to the higher kelvin, but I still like the 'daylight' idea and recommend those bulbs if the price is just a buck or two more like here.Fanatic. Your aquarium will work fine, but you need to raise the seedlings so they are close to the light source somehow. I would use plastic containers to set them on because of the humidity (wood would get moist and possibly grow some mold or something, bricks are an option, but scratch glass). I would also get a cheap ($3) emergency blanket (reflective), in the camping section at Walmart, and line the inside of the aquarium for a seriously cool little grow room. My upper closet shelf is lined with these. Tin foil is not reflective enough to bother with. As the plants grow, lower them. By the time they fill the aquarium, they will be ready for transplanting. Be sure they can breathe and have some air flow.

Ah! I forgot a little gem of advice.. Once the seedlings are a few inches high and have four or more leaves, a gentle fan blowing over them, think spring breeze, strengthens their stems and ventilates the area (helps ward off any damping issues too). I have a small fan on that closet shelf, from an old computer, and we use oscillating fans over the commercial seedlings in the greenhouse. The fan does create a need for more water. Just know the best time to water is when they are very dry.

The biggest mistakes people make, are too much water, too little light, too much water, too much fertilizer and too much water. I do not water until after they sprout and get good and dry. I water with a mister for about three weeks, then graduate to a squirt gun.

HOLD EVERYTHING:So I have this sitting in a box in my attic:

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Bow-Desktop-Kit...220&sr=8-18

Are you saying I could line the inside with foil...and use it to start the seeds you sent?

 

[Chaos Commish]

HOLD EVERYTHING:

So I have this sitting in a box in my attic:

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Bow-Desktop-Kit...220&sr=8-18

Are you saying I could line the inside with foil...and use it to start the seeds you sent?

Tin foil is a waste of time. Every camping supply sells very cheap reflective emergency blankets. They work great. Tin foil refects between 50 and 60% of the available light. Mylar 95%. 95% works. 50% is = to 0% to a plant.On the little tank, I'm going to say "yeah but".

Fanatic's tank is 20 gallons. Those generally come with a light fixture that handles a decently bright bulb. I am not so sure about the fixture in the toy aquarium and I have one. It's my fish hospital. Mine takes a screw in bulb and I haven't thought about putting a bright '100w equivalent' flourescent screw in in it. If it can handle it, then sure. Mind your temps, and make sure there's some humidity in there to get them started and then have a good way to ventilate them after they start. The little food door might not be enough. A small fan above or near the door, outside of the tank, is a must, and recreating a breeze is a challenge. I prefer cups in a clamshell tray, closed until sprouting, uncovered thereafter. But rigging a little fan to the filter wiring interests me. It may be best to use the tank without the cover and a desk lamp (swing arm style), then have a removable plastic cover. Like Fanatic, you will have to raise the seedlings close to the light at first.

Something to think about is the environment indigenous to tomato evolution. They are from the elevated sunny slopes slopes above South American rain forests. They germinate in warm rainy 80 degree humid conditions on sloped soil that is freely drained on and below the surface and never completely saturated. When the rain subsides they are now in moderate humidity in coolish conditions because of the elevation. They grow stout stems and well developed root systems in these conditions, which prepare them for pretty much anything to come, be it Minnesota or Brazil. We mimic those early conditions if we're smart. First warm and humid, with moist soil, but not too wet. Then cool and less humid, still keeping the soil most, but letting it dry out a time or two. Then whatever you got outside, because in the end they are very hardy plants.

 

[Scarpaggio]

One thing we use in the aquarium hobby to stack stuff or for racks in tanks is the light diffusing screens otherwise known as eggcrate. I would think in an aquarium something like this would work for a rack to adjust the height. One sheet is going to cost you $10 but you should have enough to make many different size stands to raise or lower the plants to the light. Just ziptie 4 sides to a bottom and turn it bottom side up and you have a shelf that would fit the size aquarium you are using.

 

[E Street Brat]

Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.

I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.

The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.I may not have accounted for every possible issue with these things, but they are performing nicely so far. The above mention of mold made me think that could be an issue with young plants barely using the water, which is sitting in the bottom now going on two weeks. The $25 does not include soil, and you can accessorize with after market products as much as you want. Mine are in the Mojave so they are wrapped in reflective windshield protectors to keep the soil from overheating. I'm thinking of rigging a toilet float in the reservoirs so they automatically refill to three inches.

The basic grow box requires the following items to construct:

Two containers, 30-32 gallons preferable.

Something like these basic ones is fine. Rubbermaid costs more but supposedly has better UV protection. Which didn't matter to me because I wrapped mine for extreme heat conditions.

I bought 12 32g units @ 8.99 ea @ Kmart to make six grow boxes.

Two 8 or 9 inch pond filter baskets (plant baskets)

Home Depot had these for 1.99 each.

I used the square 9 inchers, but the smaller ones would be fine. I was a little over concerned about water usage in the desert and these baskets provide the space/size of the reservoir. So I went bigger.

A drill.

I used a cordless hammer drill and a wood screw for the bit.

A way to cut the plastic.

I used a circular saw, carefully. A strong carpet razor cuts through with two passes, score it deeply once then got over it and you're through with a little tapping.

8 plastic ties or some heavy gauge galvanized wire.

I used wire because it was on hand. The Earthtrainer instructions use plastic ties. You can get a package of 20 8" ties that will do the job for 2.99 at Ace.

You're at $24.95 before tax.

And that's all you need.

I bought the 12 containers planning on following the Earthtrainer pdf instructions. I cut off the bottom portion of the first container (a hassle) as instructed and stared at the whole project for about an hour with my little wheels spinning. I've grown hydroponically for a decade, never in containers like this but with similar concepts, and I had issues with those instructions. I was also feeling a little lazy and unhappy with the fit of my particular containers. They are all shaped a little differently and mine did not do what his did when I inverted and wedged the cut off bottom into the other container. So I put the cut up one to a different job (growing exotic mushrooms in donkey dung) and got a replacement for hopefully a better, much simpler idea. I'll explain why I think so after the instructions.

Anyone (especially you Earthbox people) -- feel free to question and troubleshoot these if you're following along and see an issue.

Instructions:

Inner Container

The bottoms of my containers were exactly 24" long and 13" wide. With a crayon I divided the bottoms into two 12X13 halves. I then drew 3.5" squares in the center of each half and cut them out. The exact math will differ per container sizes, but it's simple enough to figure out. These holes are for wicking moisture from the reservoir to the soil. So...

You have to attach a basket to each hole on the outside bottom of the container. The container should stand raised and level on the attached baskets. Centering each basket over a hole, drill four holes in each corner through the basket edge and through the bottom of the container. I taped the baskets centered to the bottom holes to keep things lined up as I drilled the mounting holes.

Since I used wire run through the holes and twist tightened, I drilled the holes in opposing corners and used one long wire for each basket, fed up through one hole down through the next until they met at the first hole -- tightened it up and snipped the ends. This was fast, simple and really strong when tested. So I drilled a total of 8 holes, four per basket.

If using plastic ties, you drill two holes in each corner an inch or so apart and cinch tighten four ties to each basket. That's sixteen total holes, 8 per basket. It's more work and probably not as strong.

The inner container is now complete. It will be set inside the outer container.

Outer Container

Real easy. My wick baskets are 6" tall. You want a pocket of air between the water level and the soil. So decide where you're going to add water to the outer container (the rim is exposed from the inner container being lifted so you can water where you please all the way around). Measure 4" from the bottom below the fill site and drill a hole. You could just drill a small hole, but I drilled a half inch one that I can close with wine cork. When you add water it will drain out of this hole when "full" thereby providing a two inch pocket of air.

The outer container is now complete.

Set the inner container inside it. The grow box is complete and only needs sunshine, the potting soil, mulch, and plants of your choice, and water.

Some pros to the modification:

Really quick and easy to construct.

As mentioned, cleaned up, baskets removed and with a cardboard liner in the bottom of the inner containers, all containers can be taken down and stacked in storage or used as actual storage containers if wanted, so save the lids.

If you put a flashlight on most of these type of containers, you'll see some light get through. This is bad for things like algae and mold and some other nasty possibilities. Stack one container on top of the other and hit it with the same light and none gets through. So my method blocks more light than the Earthtrainer method. It's not perfect as the reservoir has only one wall, but it is improved, and mine are blacked out by the wrap I mentioned.

Earthtrainers and Earthboxes both hold about 14 gallons of soil, and about 3 gallons of water. My modification allows for six gallons of water, double the reservoir space, a bigger air gap (more oxygen to the roots) and 32 gallons, more than double the space for soil. Professional growers will tell you anything under 10 gallons per normal tomato plant will stunt the plants and lead to root rot destroying late season yield. The other two have 7 gallons each for two tomatoes, mine has 16 each, allowing for much healthier plants. I could and am growing three heirlooms in one container having just over 10 gallons of root space per plant. One common complaint in one forum on topic is how often they need watering.

These haven't used their initial 6 gallons of water in two weeks time. The tomatoes are happy, the soil staying evenly moist through very hot dry days. I used a homemade potting mix that is mostly sterilized leaf compost (60%), some bark (15%), perlite (15%) and a heathy dose of fully composted sterilized horse manure (10%). I also sprinkled a little time release fertilizer on the top and worked it in the top two inches.

As an experiment, on two of them I laid landscape fabric deep inside the inner containers just over the top of the compost filled baskets to prevent roots from getting into them. On two others I wrapped the fabric around the outside of the baskets to keep compost particles from getting into the reservoir. On one I did both; on another I just filled the baskets with potting soil along with the containers. They all seem the same so far.

My intention was to mimic a successful desert test garden and use reflective mulch, but the way these things are conserving water, so far, no mulch. I may drill drain holes in the very bottom to empty the reservoir. That water has to be pretty stinky by now. I just haven't decided if it's necessary and if the cork method is safe or how to seal them while put together.

Another feature is that it is possible early in the season to lift the inner container out of the outer container and drain everything. My guess is that sucker weighed about 120, so prepare to hoist. But this could come in handy for a variety of reason other than just draining. The oxygen charge alone should be great for the young plants.

I'm tired. GL

So you used the wicks basket to to support the weight of the inner container, instead of cutting one and using it as a base?

I'm getting ready to try one of these these, anything you would change this year?

I was thinking for more support you could use a 3rd basket in the center, but just not cut a hole for it. OR Use a single basket like in the video and use two concrete blocks to set the inner container on.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.

I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.

The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.

So you used the wicks basket to to support the weight of the inner container, instead of cutting one and using it as a base?

I'm getting ready to try one of these these, anything you would change this year?

I was thinking for more support you could use a 3rd basket in the center, but just not cut a hole for it. OR Use a single basket like in the video and use two concrete blocks to set the inner container on.

Good question.I have this thing about doing everything real cheap and then bragging about how little it costs. I would not use the cheapest containers I could find if I rebuilt them. I might go with 15 - 18 gallon containers, one wick hole per container, and grow one plant in each container. They would be easier to move, which was an issue a couple times. I can't think of the name of the good storage boxes, but they are probably the most popular brand. It just evades me at the moment, but I would/will use them going forward.

I would reduce the wick holes to 2.5" squares and drill a half dozen oxygen holes in the bottom of the inner container that would be lined with the landscape fabric (I experimented with and without).

I would add about 25% perlite or pumice to the container mix for maximum oxygen supply and root growth.

I would use a good slow release fertilizer in the beginning so I didn't have to worry about feeding the plants later.

Later in the thread I discuss mosquitoes getting in the reservoir. I would drill a series of three perpendicular drain holes in the outer container at 1" intervals starting 2" from the bottom and cork them. This gives you options for how much or little to water and keeps the insects out. Even so I would drop a 1/4 section of a mosquito disk in each reservior. These are organic and do not hurt the plants, but create a larvae eating healthy bacteria population in the wet soil and sitting water. Very cheap near the pond section of any nursery. I would cut a hole in one of the lids to fit onto the outer container (per the lid's design); but cut to fit snugly against the inner container. The small seam between the inner container and this lid's hole would be sealed with tape of some sort, and a spot needs to be cut for the fill pipe, which would get a lid. I use 1" pvc for the fill pipe, so I will just loosely stick a 1" pvc cap on it. The mosquitos were ridiculous, imo. When I pulled the inner container to check something, I was literally in a cloud of thousands. The little disk wiped them out eventually, but...

I would refer back to the original instructions and go ahead with the design for integral cages built in to the grow boxes; or, I would figure a way to install a five to six foot tall concrete reinforcing wire fence into and above the soil. You could just place the boxes between some tall posts and drape nylon trellising down to the plants, which is what I did, but that isn't mobile and was an issue when I had to move them.

That's it I think. If I remember something else, I'll post it.

Building real good ones would cost a bit more than I suggested but still a bit less than the Earthbox brand. The homemade ones are larger and that's what tomatoes need. Most people I know who try maters in Earthboxes decide to grow something else in them in the future. The original designer of these grow boxes I modified has amazing results in his bigger containers.

Just for grins and partially inspired by Joe Bs rollin' smokin' bbq kitchen, I am toying with the idea of a mobile fresh pick tomato farm for farmer's markets. Imagine a trailer with two long rows of earthtainers filled with full grown plants loaded with maters. Park it at the market and let customers onboard to pick their tomatoes right off the vine.

Crazy?

 

[Scarpaggio]

Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.

I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.

The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.

So you used the wicks basket to to support the weight of the inner container, instead of cutting one and using it as a base?

I'm getting ready to try one of these these, anything you would change this year?

I was thinking for more support you could use a 3rd basket in the center, but just not cut a hole for it. OR Use a single basket like in the video and use two concrete blocks to set the inner container on.

Good question.I have this thing about doing everything real cheap and then bragging about how little it costs. I would not use the cheapest containers I could find if I rebuilt them. I might go with 15 - 18 gallon containers, one wick hole per container, and grow one plant in each container. They would be easier to move, which was an issue a couple times. I can't think of the name of the good storage boxes, but they are probably the most popular brand. It just evades me at the moment, but I would/will use them going forward.

I would reduce the wick holes to 2.5" squares and drill a half dozen oxygen holes in the bottom of the inner container that would be lined with the landscape fabric (I experimented with and without).

I would add about 25% perlite or pumice to the container mix for maximum oxygen supply and root growth.

I would use a good slow release fertilizer in the beginning so I didn't have to worry about feeding the plants later.

Later in the thread I discuss mosquitoes getting in the reservoir. I would drill a series of three perpendicular drain holes in the outer container at 1" intervals starting 2" from the bottom and cork them. This gives you options for how much or little to water and keeps the insects out. Even so I would drop a 1/4 section of a mosquito disk in each reservior. These are organic and do not hurt the plants, but create a larvae eating healthy bacteria population in the wet soil and sitting water. Very cheap near the pond section of any nursery. I would cut a hole in one of the lids to fit onto the outer container (per the lid's design); but cut to fit snugly against the inner container. The small seam between the inner container and this lid's hole would be sealed with tape of some sort, and a spot needs to be cut for the fill pipe, which would get a lid. I use 1" pvc for the fill pipe, so I will just loosely stick a 1" pvc cap on it. The mosquitos were ridiculous, imo. When I pulled the inner container to check something, I was literally in a cloud of thousands. The little disk wiped them out eventually, but...

I would refer back to the original instructions and go ahead with the design for integral cages built in to the grow boxes; or, I would figure a way to install a five to six foot tall concrete reinforcing wire fence into and above the soil. You could just place the boxes between some tall posts and drape nylon trellising down to the plants, which is what I did, but that isn't mobile and was an issue when I had to move them.

That's it I think. If I remember something else, I'll post it.

Building real good ones would cost a bit more than I suggested but still a bit less than the Earthbox brand. The homemade ones are larger and that's what tomatoes need. Most people I know who try maters in Earthboxes decide to grow something else in them in the future. The original designer of these grow boxes I modified has amazing results in his bigger containers.

Just for grins and partially inspired by Joe Bs rollin' smokin' bbq kitchen, I am toying with the idea of a mobile fresh pick tomato farm for farmer's markets. Imagine a trailer with two long rows of earthtainers filled with full grown plants loaded with maters. Park it at the market and let customers onboard to pick their tomatoes right off the vine.

Crazy?

If you go with small tubs could you use eggcrates for the bottom and just put landscaping fabric over it to hold the soil? It seems with a small tub you could get at least 2 bottoms from one these and it would cost $5.50 for each tub. I'm not sure how much oxygen you want flowing from top to bottom/ bottom to top but this would be the max you could get. I think it would be more than sturdy enough for a small tub, but I was questioning if it would take the weight if used in a larger tub. I'm about to start building a few of these in the next week or two and I'm a big DIYer myself.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If you go with small tubs could you use eggcrates for the bottom and just put landscaping fabric over it to hold the soil? It seems with a small tub you could get at least 2 bottoms from one these and it would cost $5.50 for each tub. I'm not sure how much oxygen you want flowing from top to bottom/ bottom to top but this would be the max you could get. I think it would be more than sturdy enough for a small tub, but I was questioning if it would take the weight if used in a larger tub. I'm about to start building a few of these in the next week or two and I'm a big DIYer myself.

You could fabricate something. For me it's too easy to cut a hole in one container, attach a filter basket to the hole and set that in another container. If you attached the filter basket to the eggcrate and set that in the container, you would have to design a way to keep the soil from the reservoir a little more secure than lining the eggcrate with fabric because you won't have a perfect fit. It's doable though, especially with the smaller containers. If the fabric lined the entire container and was secured to the top via the lid, which would then be cut to make openings for the plants... this could work, yes. I like the eggcrate idea for seedling shelves too. That's better than plastic containers, but I'm cheap and figured everyone has a few spare plastic containers.

 

[E Street Brat]

I was thinking of building some furniture dollys to set the containers on. And some how attaching uprights to the end of the dollies so the tomatoes can be strung up like in this video

So the finished bow should look like this box

 

[Chaos Commish]

I was thinking of building some furniture dollys to set the containers on. And some how attaching uprights to the end of the dollies so the tomatoes can be strung up like in this video

So the finished bow should look like this box

Nice. I wrote quite a bit somewhere in this thread about stringing up intensively planted tomatoes per that exact method. I use it in a couple spots around my house. By intensive I mean having them a foot apart, pruning them, and growing them up not out. I like the post and trellis attached to the boxes, but I prefer cages for these things after a little experience. My posts were driven into the ground, the boxes set between them. Which sort of attached the whole idea to the ground. The furniture dollies are great. My BiL wants to use totes with wheels. I know they're not designed for the load, but they can probably handle it as little as we move them. Back to why cages are superior for container growing. Trellising is great for growing up. My trellised plants always get 10' and higher. These containers are already a couple feet off the ground, so trellised plants can really reach for the sky, properly grown. Caged plants can fill out the space better, are far easier to manage, produce more... and well, this is what the guy who's truly experimenting with these things specifically for maters, with over a 100 different setups, over the last six or seven years has ended up with. I strongly suggest going with cages for container growing.Also, I would drill a drainage hole right at ground level in addition to the others I added above. The biggest issue with these things is the soil stays too moist. Having a way to completely drain it and let the plants dry out is a good idea. If you go back to my experience last year in this thread, I was amazed how long the water lasted. Tomatoes, like grapes, taste best and reach highest brix, when they go through some difficult times. You would be amazed how little water they really need once established. I know growers who never water their tomatoes, period. Those happen to be the most highly acclaimed tomatoes by chefs in the SF Bay Area.

 

[siffoin]

I was thinking of building some furniture dollys to set the containers on. And some how attaching uprights to the end of the dollies so the tomatoes can be strung up like in this video

So the finished bow should look like this box

Interesting.On a whim last Spring...I built something like this and it worked pretty well. I'll add pictures to better describe.

1st I built the "dolly"

Then I screwed 4 - 4"x4" by 6" high fence posts around the perimeter. I drilled a hole into the 4x4's, and then hammered a 4' piece of rebar into the drilled hole. (this is the support structure for the "trellis."

Finally I got PVC (spray painted it) and added sections until the finished trellis was about 6' high...after that I placed garden netting around the trellis structure.

Here are pictures to better describe it.

1) Dolly with Earthbox seated and early trellis system

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Mb50g...feat=directlink

2) Trellis with rebar and PVC

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qgxcL...feat=directlink

3) Finished trellis in mid-summer with garden netting...tomato plants about 7' tall.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XGi5R...feat=directlink

This functioned very well. My wish was that I had hammered the rebar a little straighter...because the trellis was "tilted". This didn't affect the function more of the aesthetic. I had the spare 2x4's for the dolly as extra wood hanging around in the attic...the rebar and PVC was cheap...I'll guesstimate the entire thing cost less than $15 for the wood, screws, rebar, pvc and spray paint.

One other thing...last spring...I purchased Earthboxes from HSN. I got an EB, fertilizer (for 2 seasons) and 2 covers...with shipping the cost was $45 per box. For the lazy (like me) you may want to keep an eye out for a similar deal. As you can see from the pics tomatoes and peppers did pretty well. However I may do the larger box as CC describes this summer.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

Earthtrainers. He uses two containers to make one self watering grow box. My modification does the same thing, but it doesn't destroy one container by cutting it in half and wedging it into the bottom of the other container. I just cut two wick holes out of the bottom of one, attach two pond filter baskets to the holes, and set that inside the other container. This gives double the space for soil and water capacity, and doesn't completely destroy any containers. I'll post more detailed plans if someone wants them. A 32 gallon grow container costs $25 to build. It's getting pretty late to start though.

I'd be interested in that. One could definitely put some later growing crops in one.

The stuff you need is in bold. The instructions are in green below, if you want to skip right to them.I may not have accounted for every possible issue with these things, but they are performing nicely so far. The above mention of mold made me think that could be an issue with young plants barely using the water, which is sitting in the bottom now going on two weeks. The $25 does not include soil, and you can accessorize with after market products as much as you want. Mine are in the Mojave so they are wrapped in reflective windshield protectors to keep the soil from overheating. I'm thinking of rigging a toilet float in the reservoirs so they automatically refill to three inches.

The basic grow box requires the following items to construct:

Two containers, 30-32 gallons preferable.

Something like these basic ones is fine. Rubbermaid costs more but supposedly has better UV protection. Which didn't matter to me because I wrapped mine for extreme heat conditions.

I bought 12 32g units @ 8.99 ea @ Kmart to make six grow boxes.

Two 8 or 9 inch pond filter baskets (plant baskets)

Home Depot had these for 1.99 each.

I used the square 9 inchers, but the smaller ones would be fine. I was a little over concerned about water usage in the desert and these baskets provide the space/size of the reservoir. So I went bigger.

A drill.

I used a cordless hammer drill and a wood screw for the bit.

A way to cut the plastic.

I used a circular saw, carefully. A strong carpet razor cuts through with two passes, score it deeply once then got over it and you're through with a little tapping.

8 plastic ties or some heavy gauge galvanized wire.

I used wire because it was on hand. The Earthtrainer instructions use plastic ties. You can get a package of 20 8" ties that will do the job for 2.99 at Ace.

You're at $24.95 before tax.

And that's all you need.

I bought the 12 containers planning on following the Earthtrainer pdf instructions. I cut off the bottom portion of the first container (a hassle) as instructed and stared at the whole project for about an hour with my little wheels spinning. I've grown hydroponically for a decade, never in containers like this but with similar concepts, and I had issues with those instructions. I was also feeling a little lazy and unhappy with the fit of my particular containers. They are all shaped a little differently and mine did not do what his did when I inverted and wedged the cut off bottom into the other container. So I put the cut up one to a different job (growing exotic mushrooms in donkey dung) and got a replacement for hopefully a better, much simpler idea. I'll explain why I think so after the instructions.

Anyone (especially you Earthbox people) -- feel free to question and troubleshoot these if you're following along and see an issue.

Instructions:

Inner Container

The bottoms of my containers were exactly 24" long and 13" wide. With a crayon I divided the bottoms into two 12X13 halves. I then drew 3.5" squares in the center of each half and cut them out. The exact math will differ per container sizes, but it's simple enough to figure out. These holes are for wicking moisture from the reservoir to the soil. So...

You have to attach a basket to each hole on the outside bottom of the container. The container should stand raised and level on the attached baskets. Centering each basket over a hole, drill four holes in each corner through the basket edge and through the bottom of the container. I taped the baskets centered to the bottom holes to keep things lined up as I drilled the mounting holes.

Since I used wire run through the holes and twist tightened, I drilled the holes in opposing corners and used one long wire for each basket, fed up through one hole down through the next until they met at the first hole -- tightened it up and snipped the ends. This was fast, simple and really strong when tested. So I drilled a total of 8 holes, four per basket.

If using plastic ties, you drill two holes in each corner an inch or so apart and cinch tighten four ties to each basket. That's sixteen total holes, 8 per basket. It's more work and probably not as strong.

The inner container is now complete. It will be set inside the outer container.

Outer Container

Real easy. My wick baskets are 6" tall. You want a pocket of air between the water level and the soil. So decide where you're going to add water to the outer container (the rim is exposed from the inner container being lifted so you can water where you please all the way around). Measure 4" from the bottom below the fill site and drill a hole. You could just drill a small hole, but I drilled a half inch one that I can close with wine cork. When you add water it will drain out of this hole when "full" thereby providing a two inch pocket of air.

The outer container is now complete.

Set the inner container inside it. The grow box is complete and only needs sunshine, the potting soil, mulch, and plants of your choice, and water.

Some pros to the modification:

Really quick and easy to construct.

As mentioned, cleaned up, baskets removed and with a cardboard liner in the bottom of the inner containers, all containers can be taken down and stacked in storage or used as actual storage containers if wanted, so save the lids.

If you put a flashlight on most of these type of containers, you'll see some light get through. This is bad for things like algae and mold and some other nasty possibilities. Stack one container on top of the other and hit it with the same light and none gets through. So my method blocks more light than the Earthtrainer method. It's not perfect as the reservoir has only one wall, but it is improved, and mine are blacked out by the wrap I mentioned.

Earthtrainers and Earthboxes both hold about 14 gallons of soil, and about 3 gallons of water. My modification allows for six gallons of water, double the reservoir space, a bigger air gap (more oxygen to the roots) and 32 gallons, more than double the space for soil. Professional growers will tell you anything under 10 gallons per normal tomato plant will stunt the plants and lead to root rot destroying late season yield. The other two have 7 gallons each for two tomatoes, mine has 16 each, allowing for much healthier plants. I could and am growing three heirlooms in one container having just over 10 gallons of root space per plant. One common complaint in one forum on topic is how often they need watering.

These haven't used their initial 6 gallons of water in two weeks time. The tomatoes are happy, the soil staying evenly moist through very hot dry days. I used a homemade potting mix that is mostly sterilized leaf compost (60%), some bark (15%), perlite (15%) and a heathy dose of fully composted sterilized horse manure (10%). I also sprinkled a little time release fertilizer on the top and worked it in the top two inches.

As an experiment, on two of them I laid landscape fabric deep inside the inner containers just over the top of the compost filled baskets to prevent roots from getting into them. On two others I wrapped the fabric around the outside of the baskets to keep compost particles from getting into the reservoir. On one I did both; on another I just filled the baskets with potting soil along with the containers. They all seem the same so far.

My intention was to mimic a successful desert test garden and use reflective mulch, but the way these things are conserving water, so far, no mulch. I may drill drain holes in the very bottom to empty the reservoir. That water has to be pretty stinky by now. I just haven't decided if it's necessary and if the cork method is safe or how to seal them while put together.

Another feature is that it is possible early in the season to lift the inner container out of the outer container and drain everything. My guess is that sucker weighed about 120, so prepare to hoist. But this could come in handy for a variety of reason other than just draining. The oxygen charge alone should be great for the young plants.

I'm tired. GL

So you used the wicks basket to to support the weight of the inner container, instead of cutting one and using it as a base?

I'm getting ready to try one of these these, anything you would change this year?

I was thinking for more support you could use a 3rd basket in the center, but just not cut a hole for it. OR Use a single basket like in the video and use two concrete blocks to set the inner container on.

I've been researching these containers and looking at what I want to do for mine this year and have come across some different things. For one, you can use all sorts of things for supporting the upper basket. I saw one that used sections of 3" PVC pipe cut to the length of the baskets for extra support. Another one I saw used the lid of the container cut down to fit down in the reservoir so you didn't have to buy two containers. It was supported by the baskets and some additional supports like the PVC feet. I've been looking into tons of different options for the containers including lots of different rubbermaid type containers and some livestock watering troughs I've found at a feed store. Tons of different possibilities. I like the idea of trying to convert a long watering trough but the internals are much more difficult. Some hard pond liners I just missed on Craigslist would have been a good cheap alternative that would have held enough soil for probably 4 plants.

 

[Scarpaggio]

I've been researching these containers and looking at what I want to do for mine this year and have come across some different things. For one, you can use all sorts of things for supporting the upper basket. I saw one that used sections of 3" PVC pipe cut to the length of the baskets for extra support. Another one I saw used the lid of the container cut down to fit down in the reservoir so you didn't have to buy two containers. It was supported by the baskets and some additional supports like the PVC feet. I've been looking into tons of different options for the containers including lots of different rubbermaid type containers and some livestock watering troughs I've found at a feed store. Tons of different possibilities. I like the idea of trying to convert a long watering trough but the internals are much more difficult. Some hard pond liners I just missed on Craigslist would have been a good cheap alternative that would have held enough soil for probably 4 plants.

I think using the cut out part of the lid sounds like a great idea. I guess you just need to cut the opening big enough so that center part fits fairly snug with enough room for the wick and pvc supports. I might try it out this week.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I've been researching these containers and looking at what I want to do for mine this year and have come across some different things. For one, you can use all sorts of things for supporting the upper basket. I saw one that used sections of 3" PVC pipe cut to the length of the baskets for extra support. Another one I saw used the lid of the container cut down to fit down in the reservoir so you didn't have to buy two containers. It was supported by the baskets and some additional supports like the PVC feet.

I've been looking into tons of different options for the containers including lots of different rubbermaid type containers and some livestock watering troughs I've found at a feed store. Tons of different possibilities. I like the idea of trying to convert a long watering trough but the internals are much more difficult. Some hard pond liners I just missed on Craigslist would have been a good cheap alternative that would have held enough soil for probably 4 plants.

That's the name I couldn't remember!

 

[Chaos Commish]

I've been researching these containers and looking at what I want to do for mine this year and have come across some different things. For one, you can use all sorts of things for supporting the upper basket. I saw one that used sections of 3" PVC pipe cut to the length of the baskets for extra support. Another one I saw used the lid of the container cut down to fit down in the reservoir so you didn't have to buy two containers. It was supported by the baskets and some additional supports like the PVC feet. I've been looking into tons of different options for the containers including lots of different rubbermaid type containers and some livestock watering troughs I've found at a feed store. Tons of different possibilities. I like the idea of trying to convert a long watering trough but the internals are much more difficult. Some hard pond liners I just missed on Craigslist would have been a good cheap alternative that would have held enough soil for probably 4 plants.

I think using the cut out part of the lid sounds like a great idea. I guess you just need to cut the opening big enough so that center part fits fairly snug with enough room for the wick and pvc supports. I might try it out this week.

I need to mention the reason I set a container in a container is for maximum soil space. Cutting one in half, or using the lid propped up, or eggcrate, to form space for a reservoir is using space that could hold soil. Aesthetically my way is not so good. Functionally, I'll get happier more productive plants. There's also the advantage of having two side walls for insulation from high heat, which wipes out container plants all the time. You want warm soil in the spring but cool soil in summer. You can obviously be successful using the volume of one container for soil and reservoir, but probably not as successful... depending on the size of the container obviously.

 

[TheFanatic]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds.

So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

 

[zander_s]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds. So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

Cool, maybe mine will be in the mail today.

 

[TheFanatic]

OK, so I have the tank and a couple extra lights which should be plenty growing these things out once they have sprouted. I plan on using the same cups all the way through just because I don't want to deal with the mess of transplanting. As cold as it is here I would have to do it inside and just don't want to hear the wife complain about it.

The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:

1)Seed Starting mix:

 If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite

 No time release fertilizer

2) Plastic cups

3) MG organic potting mix

4) Mister

5) Some sort of fan

Is there a particular brand of seed starting mix I should be looking for?

I'm hoping to have mine in the cups on Sat.

 

[Franknbeans]

need some good phosphorous and carbon fertilizer recommendations

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

OK, so I have the tank and a couple extra lights which should be plenty growing these things out once they have sprouted. I plan on using the same cups all the way through just because I don't want to deal with the mess of transplanting. As cold as it is here I would have to do it inside and just don't want to hear the wife complain about it. The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:1)Seed Starting mix: If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite No time release fertilizer2) Plastic cups3) MG organic potting mix4) Mister5) Some sort of fanIs there a particular brand of seed starting mix I should be looking for?I'm hoping to have mine in the cups on Sat.

Isn't it a bit early to be starting them? In my area they have an average late frost in mid-April and you're in a cooler climate than I am. If you start them in early February that means putting them in the ground in mid to late March. I'll be starting them at the end of this month and maybe some backups a week or so later, which should be earlier than most people other than those in the south. Just curious, anyhow, I could be off on my notebook as to where you are located.

 

[TheFanatic]

OK, so I have the tank and a couple extra lights which should be plenty growing these things out once they have sprouted. I plan on using the same cups all the way through just because I don't want to deal with the mess of transplanting. As cold as it is here I would have to do it inside and just don't want to hear the wife complain about it. The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:1)Seed Starting mix: If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite No time release fertilizer2) Plastic cups3) MG organic potting mix4) Mister5) Some sort of fanIs there a particular brand of seed starting mix I should be looking for?I'm hoping to have mine in the cups on Sat.

Isn't it a bit early to be starting them? In my area they have an average late frost in mid-April and you're in a cooler climate than I am. If you start them in early February that means putting them in the ground in mid to late March. I'll be starting them at the end of this month and maybe some backups a week or so later, which should be earlier than most people other than those in the south. Just curious, anyhow, I could be off on my notebook as to where you are located.

I always plant in early april. Just because there is frost doesn't mean you can't plant. You just have to cover them. I have a few plastic planters that I place over the top of the plants and that's all I need. Other than tomatoes (and some beans and peppers last year) everything in my flower gardens right now are perennials. The only thing I plant in the spring are a few flower pots. I start them way early too. If it's supposed to frost I just pull the pots into the garage. Last year, we got a half inch of snow the week after I planted my tomatoes. Covered them with straw and placed pots over the top. Never had a problem...

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

OK, so I have the tank and a couple extra lights which should be plenty growing these things out once they have sprouted. I plan on using the same cups all the way through just because I don't want to deal with the mess of transplanting. As cold as it is here I would have to do it inside and just don't want to hear the wife complain about it. The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:1)Seed Starting mix: If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite No time release fertilizer2) Plastic cups3) MG organic potting mix4) Mister5) Some sort of fanIs there a particular brand of seed starting mix I should be looking for?I'm hoping to have mine in the cups on Sat.

Isn't it a bit early to be starting them? In my area they have an average late frost in mid-April and you're in a cooler climate than I am. If you start them in early February that means putting them in the ground in mid to late March. I'll be starting them at the end of this month and maybe some backups a week or so later, which should be earlier than most people other than those in the south. Just curious, anyhow, I could be off on my notebook as to where you are located.

I always plant in early april. Just because there is frost doesn't mean you can't plant. You just have to cover them. I have a few plastic planters that I place over the top of the plants and that's all I need. Other than tomatoes (and some beans and peppers last year) everything in my flower gardens right now are perennials. The only thing I plant in the spring are a few flower pots. I start them way early too. If it's supposed to frost I just pull the pots into the garage. Last year, we got a half inch of snow the week after I planted my tomatoes. Covered them with straw and placed pots over the top. Never had a problem...

That's cool and makes sense. Was just curious.

 

[TheFanatic]

OK, so I have the tank and a couple extra lights which should be plenty growing these things out once they have sprouted. I plan on using the same cups all the way through just because I don't want to deal with the mess of transplanting. As cold as it is here I would have to do it inside and just don't want to hear the wife complain about it. The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:1)Seed Starting mix: If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite No time release fertilizer2) Plastic cups3) MG organic potting mix4) Mister5) Some sort of fanIs there a particular brand of seed starting mix I should be looking for?I'm hoping to have mine in the cups on Sat.

Isn't it a bit early to be starting them? In my area they have an average late frost in mid-April and you're in a cooler climate than I am. If you start them in early February that means putting them in the ground in mid to late March. I'll be starting them at the end of this month and maybe some backups a week or so later, which should be earlier than most people other than those in the south. Just curious, anyhow, I could be off on my notebook as to where you are located.

I always plant in early april. Just because there is frost doesn't mean you can't plant. You just have to cover them. I have a few plastic planters that I place over the top of the plants and that's all I need. Other than tomatoes (and some beans and peppers last year) everything in my flower gardens right now are perennials. The only thing I plant in the spring are a few flower pots. I start them way early too. If it's supposed to frost I just pull the pots into the garage. Last year, we got a half inch of snow the week after I planted my tomatoes. Covered them with straw and placed pots over the top. Never had a problem...

That's cool and makes sense. Was just curious.

I like to get a jump start. Upside down empty planter is all it takes. Probably didn't need the straw for that half inch of snow, but that did worry me a bit so I went ahead and added some extra insulation. Two years ago, we got somewhat of a surprise frost after I planted. It was a surprise because I went out right after work and didn't find out about the frost till the next morning. I guess the frost came late enough that the sun my maters get first thing in the morning warmed them back up quickly and melted the frost that I didn't have a problem. I thought I was totally screwed and had planned to buy more maters but after a couple of days I checked them and saw no damage whatsoever...

 

[Chaos Commish]

need some good phosphorous and carbon fertilizer recommendations

Short answer -- Compost.Longer answer.99% of the plants out there absorb atmospheric C02 as their source of carbon. You know the old story of CO2 being converted to oxygen by plants. We use carbon reactors in greenhouses to up the carbon levels in the air, but carbon isn't a plant nutrient delivered to the roots. It can increase the healthy bio life of soil, and if that's your goal -- good well composted forest products do the job. 100% natural lump charcoal can crank up the carbon sink in the soil. I've used it in an effort to recreate terra petra. They call it biochar and it you're not familiar with it, it may just save the world. Phosphorous is probably the least necessary soil amendment of the big three. Have you done a soil test to confirm a shortage. N gets used or leached and plants always need more. K is often in short supply. Most soils have enough P to last a lifetime with a little compost boost each spring. Composted cow manure is a cheap source. Vermicompost, worm castings is an expensive source. Bone meal, rock phosphate (if you can find it) give soil a big kick start of P.

 

[Franknbeans]

need some good phosphorous and carbon fertilizer recommendations

Short answer -- Compost.Longer answer.99% of the plants out there absorb atmospheric C02 as their source of carbon. You know the old story of CO2 being converted to oxygen by plants. We use carbon reactors in greenhouses to up the carbon levels in the air, but carbon isn't a plant nutrient delivered to the roots. It can increase the healthy bio life of soil, and if that's your goal -- good well composted forest products do the job. 100% natural lump charcoal can crank up the carbon sink in the soil. I've used it in an effort to recreate terra petra. They call it biochar and it you're not familiar with it, it may just save the world. Phosphorous is probably the least necessary soil amendment of the big three. Have you done a soil test to confirm a shortage. N gets used or leached and plants always need more. K is often in short supply. Most soils have enough P to last a lifetime with a little compost boost each spring. Composted cow manure is a cheap source. Vermicompost, worm castings is an expensive source. Bone meal, rock phosphate (if you can find it) give soil a big kick start of P.

My plants are planted in compost, so there's that. I haven't measured the actual levels in the soil but that seems like the logical next step. Thanks for the info.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The things I need prior get before I start my seeds are:1)Seed Starting mix: If you can find one lower on peat and vermiculite No time release fertilizer

I really want you guys to succeed, and I am fighting the temptation to encourage you to just sift the Miracle Grow Choice Organic Potting Mix for your seed starter. It's a "little" high in ferts and will slow a little growth early, and it might even fry a sprout or two, but the seedlings that get established in it will take off. You guys aren't growing 100s or dozens in most cases, and just need one or two of each variety to take off, right? This is an idea to consider. You may not get as many plants, but you have a good shot at getting a great one with this approach. Why suggest it. I worry about the lack of a fertilizer regimen in my instructions. Fertilizing babes is a bit of a learned skill. I can tell by looking at them when and how much to fertilize. It's hard to explain or even teach in person. My six week old seedlings are often 18" high with stocky stems, but when I first started doing this in the early 90s my six week old seedlings would be 6" tall and scrawny/leggy. Four things made the difference, less water, better light, cool weather treatment and the right amount and types of ferts at the right times. I tried to make ferts foolproof in my instructions by having you start in seed mix in a small cup and transplant to a larger cup of MG potting mix kind of early -- once true leaves form. That's a pretty good approach as the seed mix has no or very low ferts and the MG is just about right to get them in the ground several weeks later. So stick with it if you like it, knowing leaving the plants in the starting mix too long sets them back because they are barely feeding. The good news is those 6" scrawny seedlings generally did fine once outside in good growing weather, so don't fret if your seedlings don't take off for you. Just keep them going until it's ready for them outside. Extra watering is more apt to kill them than make them grow. If you want to try the seed starting mix and transplant early to potting mix method that I explained in some detail, go for it. It works. Move the seedlings into the MG mix when they're about three inches high, have real leaves formed, and bury them right to those leaves. You can bury the cotelydons safely. You can pinch them off and bury them to encourage root growth where they were. Or you can bury the stem just to them leaving them exposed (they will grow for a month before falling off). If you want a little more info on the pure potting mix method the only difference is you should sift the larger pieces of bark and compost from the potting mix. You can do this with your fingers. Then to be sure the supposedly sterile mix is truly sterile and to leach a little of the N out of the soil, put it in a container with drain holes and pour boiling water into it until it's draining steadily. For a small amount of mix to start seeds you can do this in a 1 gallon plastic milk jug with the top cut off and slits in the bottom. Let it dry out for a day and it should be perfectly moist for filling little cups. Top the seedlings with a very fine cover of dry mix and follow the original instructions. I'm sure I'm overthinking this at this point.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds. So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

Cool, maybe mine will be in the mail today.

Still have not received any seeds and am uncertain if I'm going to be able to get them soon or if I need to order some to get started. Appreciate the sending of them either way, just need to know soon if I will need to get some. I have to make an order for some hot pepper seeds and could order some tomato seeds if need be as well. I've tried to send a couple of PM's but it was acting funny so I'm not sure if they went through. Thanks.

 

[zander_s]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds. So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

Cool, maybe mine will be in the mail today.

Still have not received any seeds and am uncertain if I'm going to be able to get them soon or if I need to order some to get started. Appreciate the sending of them either way, just need to know soon if I will need to get some. I have to make an order for some hot pepper seeds and could order some tomato seeds if need be as well. I've tried to send a couple of PM's but it was acting funny so I'm not sure if they went through. Thanks.

I haven't seen anything either.

 

[Mr. Yuk]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds. So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

Cool, maybe mine will be in the mail today.

Still have not received any seeds and am uncertain if I'm going to be able to get them soon or if I need to order some to get started. Appreciate the sending of them either way, just need to know soon if I will need to get some. I have to make an order for some hot pepper seeds and could order some tomato seeds if need be as well. I've tried to send a couple of PM's but it was acting funny so I'm not sure if they went through. Thanks.

I haven't seen anything either.

Same here. I PMed CC but his profile says he hasn't been online since the 7th so he wouldn't have gotten the messages yet.

 

[TheFanatic]

I finally got my seeds in the dirt...

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

OK, so I got my seeds. The originals too. The envelope got ripped in transit and the post office repackaged it in a white envelope which delayed the delivery and then I didn't notice it for a couple of days because I was looking for a red envelope. It still had the seeds. So, I plan on getting the stuff I need to plant this week and put everything in the 20 gallon long which is only 12 inches tall so I don't have to raise it much. I also have a couple extra lights from old tanks in the garage so I will have two lights that I will attach to timers. As for the fan, gonna have to come up with something there. The tank being closed in all but the top will make air flow a little tough. I plan on pulling it out of the unfinished part of the basement till they leaf out and then put them back in there where the average temp is in the high 50's....

Cool, maybe mine will be in the mail today.

Still have not received any seeds and am uncertain if I'm going to be able to get them soon or if I need to order some to get started. Appreciate the sending of them either way, just need to know soon if I will need to get some. I have to make an order for some hot pepper seeds and could order some tomato seeds if need be as well. I've tried to send a couple of PM's but it was acting funny so I'm not sure if they went through. Thanks.

I haven't seen anything either.

Same here. I PMed CC but his profile says he hasn't been online since the 7th so he wouldn't have gotten the messages yet.

He's been out for two weeks, I suspect foul play. The tomato grower's mafia didn't take to him giving away free seed and have turned him into mulch.

 

[Mr. Yuk]

He's been out for two weeks, I suspect foul play. The tomato grower's mafia didn't take to him giving away free seed and have turned him into mulch.

Either that or Burpee wanted the new hybrids for themselves and ordered a hit.

 

[TheFanatic]

Anyone else starting to get worried about CC?

 

[Mr. Yuk]

Anyone else starting to get worried about CC?

yes, hope everythings ok

 

[TheFanatic]

I'm seriously worried about CC.

I also have spouts. I planted 18 seeds and probably 14 of them sprouted. I have inch long stems and two little leaves on each...

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

I'm seriously worried about CC.I also have spouts. I planted 18 seeds and probably 14 of them sprouted. I have inch long stems and two little leaves on each...

I ordered a couple of different types of tomato seeds that should be here shortly since I didn't receive mine and need to get them started soon. Certainly hope that nothing is wrong as he's typically been around to answer questions and it has been a month.

 

[siffoin]

I'm seriously worried about CC.I also have spouts. I planted 18 seeds and probably 14 of them sprouted. I have inch long stems and two little leaves on each...

Has anyone emailed him?As per his advice...I planted mine a couple of weeks ago. Almost every seed has sprouted (except for one). I also planted other old tomato seed I had..some herbs and some peppers. All in all I have 56 cups with seed in them and probably a couple hundred seedlings already sprouted out of the ground and growing...my kid wants to side walk sell the plants we don't use (and I'll only be using about 12). I also built a PVC stand and have all the plants growing under a shop light (18 hours per day). They seem to be doing well.

 

[Harris]

I have a north facing balcony, and most of my windows face north, a few west but partially blocked from sunlight.

Is there any hope for me to grow anything?