*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[sporthenry]

I'm not sure what the significance of a career year in TS% is, especially when you yourself note that Bogut and Iguodala are taking significantly fewer shots than they did before. Lee has essentially been the the same player he was in New York.

And I understand that the players play hard for Jackson which is to his credit, but that is not what the criticism is about.

Well, the point is, if they don't play as hard for the next coach, then you are sacrificing whatever that gives you for whatever the new coach brings. This will be hard to measure but I guess we'll see it play out on the defensive end.

As far as TS%, etc. It indicates that their offense was getting pretty good shots for those guys. Curry's numbers were at or near career highs as well. Again, we'll see what a new guy brings b/c this argument is pretty much over until we get data to contrast what Jackson has done.

 

[No. 16]

Woj tweeted that there's not a single person in the GS front office that "will make the case to ownership to keep him." He must be a huge ###.

Jackson certainly is weak when it comes to strategy and making adjustments. They should also be a better offensive team given their talent. He may be a great motivator, although that's hard to judge from here.

Add in the reported stuff about how he treats his assistants, Jerry West, etc., and I can see where management is coming from.

Listening to Jackson's "analysis" when he was a TV analyst, I never understood the sentiment that he deserved a head coaching job despite having no experience.

What more do people want? Top 10 in scoring offense and defense. Might only be 12th in offensive efficiency but 3rd in defensive efficiency. So whoever they bring in likely results in a drop defensively. In today's day and age of advanced stats, still seems like people want to sacrifice defense for offense.

And they just took one of the best teams in the league to 7 without Bogut. Looking at the team with or without Bogut, do people really consider this one of the best teams in the league? Seems like they only have 1 superstar in a league where you need at least 2.

12th doesn't match their offensive talent. And why would their next coach automatically cause a drop defensively? They would still have 2 of the premier defenders at their positions in Bogut and Iguodala, who were that way before they came to Golden State.

I don't think Jackson did a horrible job, but he does have clear weaknesses which are partially attributable to him not having any experience before he took the job. It's one thing if he utilizes an assistant to cover up his deficiencies which would be fine, but it appears he freezes them out instead.

For the same reason people automatically assume their next coach will automatically cause them to increase offensively? Jackson seemed to be a pretty good defensive coach and got his guys to buy in.Their efg% and TS% were 8th and 10th respectively. Where do you think that should be? Are they better offensively than Miami, OKC, San Antonio, LAC or Houston? So we're talking about a few positions better?

And this year they already pretty much got career years out of Iggy and Bogut WRT to efg% and TS% (granted their usages are down) and had Lee's best year since New York. Of course the younger guys like Thompson, Green, and maybe Barnes can improve but will that be because of the new coach or just them maturing? It'll be interesting to watch to say the least.

I think the general thinking of Warriors fans (and likely the front office) is that the Warriors underperformed on offense due to Jackson's love of iso-ball and that the players are what drove the defensive success and not Jackson.

12th in offense efficiency is terrible when you starting line up has: 2 of the best shooters in the NBA (Curry/Klay), 2 creative play-makers (Curry and Iggy), a do it all on offense PF, and a C with basketball IQ and passing ability. Curry, Iggy, Lee, and Bogut are all + passers and smart as hell on offense. No reason the ball shouldn't be whipping around San Antonio or Miami Heat style. Look what Carlisle did in Dallas (#3 otrg) with about the same or less offensive talent. That's why Jackson is getting canned, b/c the team has under performed on offense. Should the Warriors be behind the Suns, Twolves, Raptors, and Knicks in offensive rating?

Bogut and Iggy have shown on their previous teams to impact the defense just by themselves, regardless of who is coaching them. Add the two together with Klay and Draymond and again hard for a new coach to mess it up. That's why it's hard to give Jackson a lot of credit for the Warriors defensive success when Bogut and Iggy have been THE pillars for very good defensive teams previously.

People give credit for Mark Jackson turning the Warriors around in his 3 years, but the real credit belongs to the front office. Look at roster in 2011-2012 to now.

2011-12

PG Curry **Soph**

SG Ellis

SF D. Wright

PF D. Lee

C A. Biedrins

2013-14

PG Curry **All-Star**

SG Klay

SF Iggy

PF D. Lee

C Bogut

Huge improvement. With all that said can't take away that Mark Jackson gets all his players to play hard which is a great trait, but you know what.... I'm pretty sure Curry, Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Lee, and Bogut all will continue to work hard under a new coach. These players have had reputations as class acts, great teammates, and hard workers that pre-dates Jackson. Give them a coach who will get them easier shots on offense and I'm sure they'll play just as hard for him too.

That's just the X/Os reasons to can Jackson. Add in all the other crap and I think unless the Dubs strike out on whoever else they have in mind or Jackson agrees to revamp the offense, he's a goner.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

i don't get the tanking sentiment for the Raptors. This was a 22-win team 3 years ago that has improved each year since. I get the idea that the odds are still against them (or almost any team) to get to a championship level, but building on what they have now seems a hell of a lot better than just tanking.

I am all for the tanking and tear-down strategy, but you want to do it when the team is on the way down. With a team on a moderate upswing, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Eephus]

GSW also increased their team salaries from $58.6 in 2011-12 to $71.4 this year. They moved from being right at the cap to near the luxury tax threshold. That extra spend brings higher expectations.

I don't know if you can assume the players won't play as hard for the next coach. Like any team during the long season, they put up some stinkers. They had a number of other games where they came back after shaky starts. Everybody plays hard in the playoffs. I don't think you can judge Jackson's motivational skills based on the past seven games. If he gets sacked, it'll be because of what happened the past two years, not the past two weeks

 

[Short Corner]

If he gets sacked, it'll be because of what happened the past two years, not the past two weeks.

 

[BassNBrew]

I'm sad Cliff :'( Now I have to boo the #### out of Brooklyn in person I guess. Was a good run and not surprising the fans reacted how they should which was nice but wish the season kept going. Hopefully they retain Lowry Vazquez and Patterson and let Salmons walk. Looking forward to next year, hopefully we have a nice run of consecutive playoff appearances coming in the next few years after missing out so long.

Yeah this sucks but really par for the course for a Toronto sports team. I still believe we need to tank or we will just remain a treadmill team. Talent just isn't there.

This year was a resounding success for the team. I don't know how you can think otherwise. Had they tried to tank after the all star break, they'd be in an even worse position. They had to much talent to sniff a top 5 pick. Top 10 maybe, but what does that get you? Maybe a quality starter like say, Walker or Jefferson and another 5 years year of being terrible.

They were one of the best teams in the league post all star break; 21-9. That winning % was 4th best in the league only behind, SA, LAC and OKC kick butt (not going to figure out where it ranked). Better than most of the entire eastern conference, GS, Memphis, Portland, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. The starting lineup had 1 sophomore, an "all-star" who is 29 and a top tier PG still early in his prime. Their best bench pieces, CDR and Biyombo, are still young (CDRV is older but not many miles on him). Every single core player is going to be getting better (in theory). There are only some LeBron's and Durant's out there and even one of them doesn't guarantee you anything.

They were a quality SF anyway from playing Toronto in the playoffs.

Maybe with the exposure the team got in these playoffs will help them attract some free agent talent. If they could add guy like Deng, Batum or Igoudala they'd probably be the 2nd best team in the east.

Maybe I'm just a deluded homer and spewing garbage. I dunno. I liked what I saw this year.

Edited from the Hornets perspective.

 

[Popinski]

I'm not sure what the significance of a career year in TS% is, especially when you yourself note that Bogut and Iguodala are taking significantly fewer shots than they did before. Lee has essentially been the the same player he was in New York.

And I understand that the players play hard for Jackson which is to his credit, but that is not what the criticism is about.

Well, the point is, if they don't play as hard for the next coach, then you are sacrificing whatever that gives you for whatever the new coach brings. This will be hard to measure but I guess we'll see it play out on the defensive end.

Who is to say they won't play as hard for the next coach? It's not as if the players who had played elsewhere had suddenly played so much harder when they came to Golden State that their level of play increased.

As far as TS%, etc. It indicates that their offense was getting pretty good shots for those guys. Curry's numbers were at or near career highs as well.

Like I said, if they are taking drastically fewer shots, that also means they are being more selective and taking higher percentage shots. Both players had more significant roles as scorers on their previous teams, which warranted more defensive attention.

 

[hxperson]

I'm sad Cliff :'( Now I have to boo the #### out of Brooklyn in person I guess. Was a good run and not surprising the fans reacted how they should which was nice but wish the season kept going. Hopefully they retain Lowry Vazquez and Patterson and let Salmons walk. Looking forward to next year, hopefully we have a nice run of consecutive playoff appearances coming in the next few years after missing out so long.

Yeah this sucks but really par for the course for a Toronto sports team. I still believe we need to tank or we will just remain a treadmill team. Talent just isn't there.

This year was a resounding success for the team. I don't know how you can think otherwise. Had they tried to tank after trading, they'd be in an even worse position. They had to much talent to sniff a top 5 pick. Top 10 maybe, but what does that get you? Maybe a quality starter like say, Derozan or Lowry and another 5 years year of being terrible.

They were one of the best teams in the league post trade; 41-21 once the Sacremento players arrived. That winning % was 4th best in the league only behind, SA, LAC and OKC. Better than the entire eastern conference, GS, Memphis, Portland, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. The starting lineup had 2 sophomores, an "all-star" who is 25 and a top tier PG still early in his prime. Their best bench pieces, Patterson and Vasquez, are still young (Vasquez is older but not many miles on him). Every single core player is going to be getting better (in theory). There are only some LeBron's and Durant's out there and even one of them doesn't guarantee you anything.

They were a quality SF anyway from winning this series. Hell, if they had anyone who could matchup with Iso Joe or a coach who could have taken advantage of his quality matchups, they would have won.

Maybe with the exposure the team got in these playoffs will help them attract some free agent talent. If they could add guy like Deng, Batum or Igoudala they'd probably be the 2nd best team in the east.

Maybe I'm just a deluded homer and spewing garbage. I dunno. I liked what I saw this year.

I dunno, I'm a homer too, but I just don't see it the way you do. What did the Raptors really accomplish? Made the Playoffs? Nearly half the league does that and even the Atlanta Hawks did it without a winning record. Won the Atlantic Division? Well only one other team in the division made the playoffs, and that team happened to beat us in the first round - so are they really better than them?

It was encouraging to see good development out of Lowry and Derozan. Derozan has definitely improved his defense and his mid-range game, but otherwise I feel he's become pretty overrated. He's still a pretty inefficient scorer, due to both shot selection and mediocre handles, and has below average court vision. Great SG's create space for themselves with their threat to pass when the double team collapses on them. Derozan doesn't have that, which made it very easy for Brooklyn to shut him down. Until he develops a passing game he will never be a star, imo, and I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen as its been 5 years already.

Lowry I think is becoming a star, and can take over games. But ultimately, he's undersized and I worry about injuries going forward. Also, we don't even know if he'll be on the team next year, and I don't know if he'll be worth a max contract (due mostly to health).

I believe Valanciunas is our most promising talent, but he's got a LONG way to go in terms of defensive positioning and offensive polish. He got owned this series by Blache and the ghost of KG on the defensive glass. Nonetheless, as disappointing as he was this series, his problems appear fixable. Ross on the other hand has me very concerned. He doesn't look like a future starter and completely failed to assert himself as any kind of scoring threat this series (and this season, for the most part), while being only mediocre on defense. I like Amir and he's great 3rd big, but he's just an average to below average starter.

Perhaps I just have high expectations. But I don't feel its good enough to have a team that just makes it to the playoffs and might get out of the first round. I want a team that I expect to make it to the second round, and even have a shot at the conference finals and championships. I don't see that ever happening with the group we have right now. If we can add a star player at the 3 or the 4, a guy who can be a reliable scorer down the stretch and take over when the other guys go cold, I think the Raptors could become a real threat. These playoffs did help raise the team profile, but without making it out of the first round, what kind of respect will we really garner? And what great free agents did we sign when either Vince or Bosh were here and having better success than this team had? The franchise's failures to build in those two eras leave me highly skeptical of the free agent route, so I feel the only way to build is via the draft, and you aren't going to do that successfully with picks in the 15-20 range.

 

[the moops]

So round one is done of that pool I mentioned a while back. I had 1027 points, going with Aldridge, Curry, Wall, Nowitzki, and Randolph. Guy in first place has 1187 points, and went with Curry, Griffin, Aldridge, Lililard, and Harden.

For those who dont remember, points is determined by PTS+REBS+ASTS, over however many games the series goes. Once you use a player, he can not be used again. Everyone in the league chose Curry. Most people also chose Aldridge. Lowry had about 1/2 the guys choose him, similar amount for Wall.

Thoughts on who to go with this round? Thinking Lilliard, Griffin, Paul, Johnson, and George?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

So round one is done of that pool I mentioned a while back. I had 1027 points, going with Aldridge, Curry, Wall, Nowitzki, and Randolph. Guy in first place has 1187 points, and went with Curry, Griffin, Aldridge, Lililard, and Harden.

For those who dont remember, points is determined by PTS+REBS+ASTS, over however many games the series goes. Once you use a player, he can not be used again. Everyone in the league chose Curry. Most people also chose Aldridge. Lowry had about 1/2 the guys choose him, similar amount for Wall.

Thoughts on who to go with this round? Thinking Lilliard, Griffin, Paul, Johnson, and George?

I would play Durant.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I dunno, I'm a homer too, but I just don't see it the way you do. What did the Raptors really accomplish? Made the Playoffs? Nearly half the league does that and even the Atlanta Hawks did it without a winning record. Won the Atlantic Division? Well only one other team in the division made the playoffs, and that team happened to beat us in the first round - so are they really better than them?

What did they accomplish? They made the playoffs. Something they hadn't accomplished in what, a decade almost? Do you expect them to go from bottom feeders to title contenders in one season? Again, they were the best team in the Eastern conference after they made their trade. Is that not a good accomplishment?

It was encouraging to see good development out of Lowry and Derozan. Derozan has definitely improved his defense and his mid-range game, but otherwise I feel he's become pretty overrated. He's still a pretty inefficient scorer, due to both shot selection and mediocre handles, and has below average court vision. Great SG's create space for themselves with their threat to pass when the double team collapses on them. Derozan doesn't have that, which made it very easy for Brooklyn to shut him down. Until he develops a passing game he will never be a star, imo, and I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen as its been 5 years already.

I'm not sure Derozan is over-rated. Most people see the flaws in his game. Luckily for him, the SG position is terribly weak right right now so he is one of the best in the league at that spot. His passing numbers numbers have increased every single season while not increasing his turnover rate. His 3 point shooting has also steadily increased and is now at 30%. Hopefully that trend continues and the long 2's that make everyone cringe will turn into 3's. He's 24. There is still plenty of room for improvement.

Lowry I think is becoming a star, and can take over games. But ultimately, he's undersized and I worry about injuries going forward. Also, we don't even know if he'll be on the team next year, and I don't know if he'll be worth a max contract (due mostly to health).

I'd hate to see him get a max. $12M sounds about right imo. He'll be back next year.

I believe Valanciunas is our most promising talent, but he's got a LONG way to go in terms of defensive positioning and offensive polish. He got owned this series by Blache and the ghost of KG on the defensive glass. Nonetheless, as disappointing as he was this series, his problems appear fixable. Ross on the other hand has me very concerned. He doesn't look like a future starter and completely failed to assert himself as any kind of scoring threat this series (and this season, for the most part), while being only mediocre on defense. I like Amir and he's great 3rd big, but he's just an average to below average starter.

JV was a huge disappointment in the playoffs after the first couple games. He had a juicy matchup and he didn't exploit it. I lay a lot of that blame at Casey's feet as well. Gotta give the big man some touches early in the game. Plenty of times he runs the floor and gets completely ignored by both his teammates and the opposition.

I don't get the Ross hate unless you're judging just based on the playoffs in which he was horrific. He played his role excellently during the regular season. There are only so many plays in a game and Ross is pretty low on the totem pole for getting touches. IMO, he'll develop into a guy like Salmons.

Perhaps I just have high expectations. But I don't feel its good enough to have a team that just makes it to the playoffs and might get out of the first round. I want a team that I expect to make it to the second round, and even have a shot at the conference finals and championships. I don't see that ever happening with the group we have right now. If we can add a star player at the 3 or the 4, a guy who can be a reliable scorer down the stretch and take over when the other guys go cold, I think the Raptors could become a real threat. These playoffs did help raise the team profile, but without making it out of the first round, what kind of respect will we really garner? And what great free agents did we sign when either Vince or Bosh were here and having better success than this team had? The franchise's failures to build in those two eras leave me highly skeptical of the free agent route, so I feel the only way to build is via the draft, and you aren't going to do that successfully with picks in the 15-20 range.

How could you have any expectations of a team that has been lottery bound for 7 years??? Seriously. They had a fantastic run this season. Next year, the bar is set higher. If they don't make it out of the 1st next year, time to look at some changes. If after a few years they're stuck being 1st round fodder, then yes, blow it up.

But christ man, maybe you need to stop watching this team or the NBA altogether. After watching what was likely the best season in franchise history, you're complaining that they aren't good enough? You're wanting them to be ####ty for another 4-5 years in hopes that they can finally land a stud, be ####ty for a couple years after that and then maybe be a playoff team? Come on. Oh, and lets just hope that the year they have the top pick they aren't getting Bargnani, Oden, Kwame or Bennett. How have the Cavs done with their rebuild? They've had 4 top 5 picks in the last 3 years. How are they doing? Who's future looks better right now, Cleveland's or Toronto's?

 

[BobbyLayne]

I'm sad Cliff :'( Now I have to boo the #### out of Brooklyn in person I guess. Was a good run and not surprising the fans reacted how they should which was nice but wish the season kept going. Hopefully they retain Lowry Vazquez and Patterson and let Salmons walk. Looking forward to next year, hopefully we have a nice run of consecutive playoff appearances coming in the next few years after missing out so long.

Yeah this sucks but really par for the course for a Toronto sports team. I still believe we need to tank or we will just remain a treadmill team. Talent just isn't there.

This year was a resounding success for the team. I don't know how you can think otherwise. Had they tried to tank after trading, they'd be in an even worse position. They had to much talent to sniff a top 5 pick. Top 10 maybe, but what does that get you? Maybe a quality starter like say, Derozan or Lowry and another 5 years year of being terrible.

They were one of the best teams in the league post trade; 41-21 once the Sacremento players arrived. That winning % was 4th best in the league only behind, SA, LAC and OKC. Better than the entire eastern conference, GS, Memphis, Portland, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. The starting lineup had 2 sophomores, an "all-star" who is 25 and a top tier PG still early in his prime. Their best bench pieces, Patterson and Vasquez, are still young (Vasquez is older but not many miles on him). Every single core player is going to be getting better (in theory). There are only some LeBron's and Durant's out there and even one of them doesn't guarantee you anything.

They were a quality SF anyway from winning this series. Hell, if they had anyone who could matchup with Iso Joe or a coach who could have taken advantage of his quality matchups, they would have won.

Maybe with the exposure the team got in these playoffs will help them attract some free agent talent. If they could add guy like Deng, Batum or Igoudala they'd probably be the 2nd best team in the east.

Maybe I'm just a deluded homer and spewing garbage. I dunno. I liked what I saw this year.

I dunno, I'm a homer too, but I just don't see it the way you do. What did the Raptors really accomplish? Made the Playoffs? Nearly half the league does that and even the Atlanta Hawks did it without a winning record. Won the Atlantic Division? Well only one other team in the division made the playoffs, and that team happened to beat us in the first round - so are they really better than them?

It was encouraging to see good development out of Lowry and Derozan. Derozan has definitely improved his defense and his mid-range game, but otherwise I feel he's become pretty overrated. He's still a pretty inefficient scorer, due to both shot selection and mediocre handles, and has below average court vision. Great SG's create space for themselves with their threat to pass when the double team collapses on them. Derozan doesn't have that, which made it very easy for Brooklyn to shut him down. Until he develops a passing game he will never be a star, imo, and I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen as its been 5 years already.

Lowry I think is becoming a star, and can take over games. But ultimately, he's undersized and I worry about injuries going forward. Also, we don't even know if he'll be on the team next year, and I don't know if he'll be worth a max contract (due mostly to health).

I believe Valanciunas is our most promising talent, but he's got a LONG way to go in terms of defensive positioning and offensive polish. He got owned this series by Blache and the ghost of KG on the defensive glass. Nonetheless, as disappointing as he was this series, his problems appear fixable. Ross on the other hand has me very concerned. He doesn't look like a future starter and completely failed to assert himself as any kind of scoring threat this series (and this season, for the most part), while being only mediocre on defense. I like Amir and he's great 3rd big, but he's just an average to below average starter.

Perhaps I just have high expectations. But I don't feel its good enough to have a team that just makes it to the playoffs and might get out of the first round. I want a team that I expect to make it to the second round, and even have a shot at the conference finals and championships. I don't see that ever happening with the group we have right now. If we can add a star player at the 3 or the 4, a guy who can be a reliable scorer down the stretch and take over when the other guys go cold, I think the Raptors could become a real threat. These playoffs did help raise the team profile, but without making it out of the first round, what kind of respect will we really garner? And what great free agents did we sign when either Vince or Bosh were here and having better success than this team had? The franchise's failures to build in those two eras leave me highly skeptical of the free agent route, so I feel the only way to build is via the draft, and you aren't going to do that successfully with picks in the 15-20 range.

You have a lot of reason to be hopeful. Try being a Pistons fan if you don't appreciate this new level of success.

A little perspective: Toronto has been in the league 19 years, just won their 2nd division title, set a franchise record for wins. That was the first winning season in 7 years, second winning season in the last 12.

I'd say the standing O the fans gave the team after the game was well deserved.

 

[Freelove]

Who's future looks better right now, Cleveland's or Toronto's?

If it's a serious question, the answer is clearly Cleveland's.

Kyrie has warts, but he'd still be the first player any GM would take off of either team, plus they've got actual reason for hope in terms of free agency and draft lottery. They've got a non-zero chance of being a competitive team within a few years' time. It's not a great chance, but it exists. I don't see where Toronto has even that. The only thing that matters in the NBA is getting a few superstars that work well together. Toronto has no clear path to that goal. Their season is a reason for respect, but not for optimism.

 

[thecatch]

I'm going to request that you show your math on how Cleveland is closer to a title than Toronto.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Who's future looks better right now, Cleveland's or Toronto's?

If it's a serious question, the answer is clearly Cleveland's.

Kyrie has warts, but he'd still be the first player any GM would take off of either team, plus they've got actual reason for hope in terms of free agency and draft lottery. They've got a non-zero chance of being a competitive team within a few years' time. It's not a great chance, but it exists. I don't see where Toronto has even that. The only thing that matters in the NBA is getting a few superstars that work well together. Toronto has no clear path to that goal. Their season is a reason for respect, but not for optimism.

Uh, why do they have hope in FA or the lottery? And why does Toronto have a zero chance yet Cleveland has a non-zero? Is it because Irving has shown he can lead them to the playoffs? Nope. Is it because Irving is better than Lowry? Nope. Is it because Cleveland has a great draft history? Nope. Is it because they've been able to sign top free agents? Nope. Is it because they've shown they can build a great team around a stud? Nope.

Toronto is more talented at every single position and just as young.

 

[hxperson]

I'm sad Cliff :'( Now I have to boo the #### out of Brooklyn in person I guess. Was a good run and not surprising the fans reacted how they should which was nice but wish the season kept going. Hopefully they retain Lowry Vazquez and Patterson and let Salmons walk. Looking forward to next year, hopefully we have a nice run of consecutive playoff appearances coming in the next few years after missing out so long.

Yeah this sucks but really par for the course for a Toronto sports team. I still believe we need to tank or we will just remain a treadmill team. Talent just isn't there.

This year was a resounding success for the team. I don't know how you can think otherwise. Had they tried to tank after trading, they'd be in an even worse position. They had to much talent to sniff a top 5 pick. Top 10 maybe, but what does that get you? Maybe a quality starter like say, Derozan or Lowry and another 5 years year of being terrible.

They were one of the best teams in the league post trade; 41-21 once the Sacremento players arrived. That winning % was 4th best in the league only behind, SA, LAC and OKC. Better than the entire eastern conference, GS, Memphis, Portland, Dallas, Phoenix, etc. The starting lineup had 2 sophomores, an "all-star" who is 25 and a top tier PG still early in his prime. Their best bench pieces, Patterson and Vasquez, are still young (Vasquez is older but not many miles on him). Every single core player is going to be getting better (in theory). There are only some LeBron's and Durant's out there and even one of them doesn't guarantee you anything.

They were a quality SF anyway from winning this series. Hell, if they had anyone who could matchup with Iso Joe or a coach who could have taken advantage of his quality matchups, they would have won.

Maybe with the exposure the team got in these playoffs will help them attract some free agent talent. If they could add guy like Deng, Batum or Igoudala they'd probably be the 2nd best team in the east.

Maybe I'm just a deluded homer and spewing garbage. I dunno. I liked what I saw this year.

I dunno, I'm a homer too, but I just don't see it the way you do. What did the Raptors really accomplish? Made the Playoffs? Nearly half the league does that and even the Atlanta Hawks did it without a winning record. Won the Atlantic Division? Well only one other team in the division made the playoffs, and that team happened to beat us in the first round - so are they really better than them?

It was encouraging to see good development out of Lowry and Derozan. Derozan has definitely improved his defense and his mid-range game, but otherwise I feel he's become pretty overrated. He's still a pretty inefficient scorer, due to both shot selection and mediocre handles, and has below average court vision. Great SG's create space for themselves with their threat to pass when the double team collapses on them. Derozan doesn't have that, which made it very easy for Brooklyn to shut him down. Until he develops a passing game he will never be a star, imo, and I'm not holding my breath that this will ever happen as its been 5 years already.

Lowry I think is becoming a star, and can take over games. But ultimately, he's undersized and I worry about injuries going forward. Also, we don't even know if he'll be on the team next year, and I don't know if he'll be worth a max contract (due mostly to health).

I believe Valanciunas is our most promising talent, but he's got a LONG way to go in terms of defensive positioning and offensive polish. He got owned this series by Blache and the ghost of KG on the defensive glass. Nonetheless, as disappointing as he was this series, his problems appear fixable. Ross on the other hand has me very concerned. He doesn't look like a future starter and completely failed to assert himself as any kind of scoring threat this series (and this season, for the most part), while being only mediocre on defense. I like Amir and he's great 3rd big, but he's just an average to below average starter.

Perhaps I just have high expectations. But I don't feel its good enough to have a team that just makes it to the playoffs and might get out of the first round. I want a team that I expect to make it to the second round, and even have a shot at the conference finals and championships. I don't see that ever happening with the group we have right now. If we can add a star player at the 3 or the 4, a guy who can be a reliable scorer down the stretch and take over when the other guys go cold, I think the Raptors could become a real threat. These playoffs did help raise the team profile, but without making it out of the first round, what kind of respect will we really garner? And what great free agents did we sign when either Vince or Bosh were here and having better success than this team had? The franchise's failures to build in those two eras leave me highly skeptical of the free agent route, so I feel the only way to build is via the draft, and you aren't going to do that successfully with picks in the 15-20 range.

You have a lot of reason to be hopeful. Try being a Pistons fan if you don't appreciate this new level of success.

A little perspective: Toronto has been in the league 19 years, just won their 2nd division title, set a franchise record for wins. That was the first winning season in 7 years, second winning season in the last 12.

I'd say the standing O the fans gave the team after the game was well deserved.

I hear you, but I think I'd rather have the Pistons. Your franchise has a championship (or 3) more than ours. I guess I should be appreciative of the fact that the team is decent for once an not epically bad as usual, but to me, it is still a team that:

(a) lost to a mediocre Brooklyn team in the first round;

(b) as much as they had "improved" at that point, lost to the Knicks twice in the last week of the season in situations they were trying to win;

© can't compete with any of the top tier teams.

I see our success as much a function of incompetence and tanking in the rest of the East as it is improvement in from our players. The Raptors would not have sniffed a playoff spot in the West.

To answer Cliff - to be honest I'd probably prefer Cleveland right now. Kyrie has his flaws but he's better than anyone on our team. The rest of the team isn't great, but there's talent there - their bigger problem is their lack of chemistry. Plus, they will have another high pick this year that should bring in another talented player. I have a vivid memory of watching this team late in the season against Washington...it was a close game but John Wall just took over in the 4th quarter, and it was obvious to me that we didn't have a similar type of talent on this squad. I think the Cav's aren't a great template - they aren't a well run club. But I look at teams like Portland and Golden State, and wonder why we can't be like them? They've built great teams based on strong draft picks that turned out to be stars, followed up by complimentary free agent signings. We don't have those stars, imo.

 

[Premier]

I'm starting to understand why Maple Leaf fans get a bad rap.

 

[Synthesizer]

You have a lot of reason to be hopeful. Try being a Pistons fan if you don't appreciate this new level of success.

A little perspective: Toronto has been in the league 19 years, just won their 2nd division title, set a franchise record for wins. That was the first winning season in 7 years, second winning season in the last 12.

I'd say the standing O the fans gave the team after the game was well deserved.

I would MUCH rather have the 3 championships, 2 conference championships, plus about 6 other "final fours". Even if that includes some bad stretches like the one we're in now.

 

[Abraham]

They lost in the first round to a good Brooklyn team. The Nets went 32-9 after new years before tanking in the last two weeks.

 

[hxperson]

I'm starting to understand why Maple Leaf fans get a bad rap.

LOL - I actually hate the Leafs, and hockey. But honestly, it is precisely MLSE that has me so unsatisfied. They constantly screw things up, charge exorbitant ticket prices, and then expect us to be happy because one of their teams actually made the playoffs for once in the last five years. All the while being one of the most profitable sports franchises in North America with a fan base that can only be rivaled by less than a handful of U.S. cities.

 

[pollardsvision]

Who's future looks better right now, Cleveland's or Toronto's?

If it's a serious question, the answer is clearly Cleveland's.

Kyrie has warts, but he'd still be the first player any GM would take off of either team, plus they've got actual reason for hope in terms of free agency and draft lottery. They've got a non-zero chance of being a competitive team within a few years' time. It's not a great chance, but it exists. I don't see where Toronto has even that. The only thing that matters in the NBA is getting a few superstars that work well together. Toronto has no clear path to that goal. Their season is a reason for respect, but not for optimism.

Uh, why do they have hope in FA or the lottery? And why does Toronto have a zero chance yet Cleveland has a non-zero? Is it because Irving has shown he can lead them to the playoffs? Nope. Is it because Irving is better than Lowry? Nope. Is it because Cleveland has a great draft history? Nope. Is it because they've been able to sign top free agents? Nope. Is it because they've shown they can build a great team around a stud? Nope.

Toronto is more talented at every single position and just as young.

Yeah, TOR's situation is much better.

CLE has one asset. Irving's good, but we still don't know how good. And I contend that PG is the RB of the NBA. If your PG is, by far, your best player, you are almost certainly screwed, unless that PG is a no-doubt HOFer (and even then, you need a lot of help).

I'd much rather have a good 21 YO C locked up on the cheap until 2017, a very good 6'7" SG on a nice contract until 2016, and of course, the best player on either team in Lowry if they re-sign him. Another year of Vasquez and Patterson on the cheap is also great.

I see all kinds of hope in TOR based on what's already on the roster. CLE's only hope remains in the unknown.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I see our success as much a function of incompetence and tanking in the rest of the East as it is improvement in from our players. The Raptors would not have sniffed a playoff spot in the West.

To answer Cliff - to be honest I'd probably prefer Cleveland right now. Kyrie has his flaws but he's better than anyone on our team. The rest of the team isn't great, but there's talent there - their bigger problem is their lack of chemistry. Plus, they will have another high pick this year that should bring in another talented player. I have a vivid memory of watching this team late in the season against Washington...it was a close game but John Wall just took over in the 4th quarter, and it was obvious to me that we didn't have a similar type of talent on this squad. I think the Cav's aren't a great template - they aren't a well run club. But I look at teams like Portland and Golden State, and wonder why we can't be like them? They've built great teams based on strong draft picks that turned out to be stars, followed up by complimentary free agent signings. We don't have those stars, imo.

Toronto was 12-7 vs the West post-trade. To say they wouldn't sniff the playoffs in the West is wrong.

Lowry blew Irving out of the water this year across the board. Pick whatever metric you want. Will that continue? Maybe. Maybe not. Cleveland has been terrible for 4 straights years. Do you see contention in their future? Hell, do you see playoffs in their near future? I sure don't. Maybe in 3-4 years they can contend again. That is if Irving doesn't leave.

You're cherry picking games. Are you going to ignore the other 3 games where the Raptors beat the Wizards? You could have brought up the game Durant killed them in OT... while conveniently ignoring the other time, where he didn't and Toronto won. What does it matter that they lost to the Knicks a couple times? Some teams matchup better than others. Knicks played well down the stretch, Toronto didn't.

As for why Toronto can't be like GS or Portland, a lot of it is 'luck'. They've hit on great players with later lottery picks and in Portland's case, they had some dumb#### take Bargnani ahead of Aldridge.

 

[hxperson]

I see our success as much a function of incompetence and tanking in the rest of the East as it is improvement in from our players. The Raptors would not have sniffed a playoff spot in the West.

To answer Cliff - to be honest I'd probably prefer Cleveland right now. Kyrie has his flaws but he's better than anyone on our team. The rest of the team isn't great, but there's talent there - their bigger problem is their lack of chemistry. Plus, they will have another high pick this year that should bring in another talented player. I have a vivid memory of watching this team late in the season against Washington...it was a close game but John Wall just took over in the 4th quarter, and it was obvious to me that we didn't have a similar type of talent on this squad. I think the Cav's aren't a great template - they aren't a well run club. But I look at teams like Portland and Golden State, and wonder why we can't be like them? They've built great teams based on strong draft picks that turned out to be stars, followed up by complimentary free agent signings. We don't have those stars, imo.

Toronto was 12-7 vs the West post-trade. To say they wouldn't sniff the playoffs in the West is wrong.

Lowry blew Irving out of the water this year across the board. Pick whatever metric you want. Will that continue? Maybe. Maybe not. Cleveland has been terrible for 4 straights years. Do you see contention in their future? Hell, do you see playoffs in their near future? I sure don't. Maybe in 3-4 years they can contend again. That is if Irving doesn't leave.

You're cherry picking games. Are you going to ignore the other 3 games where the Raptors beat the Wizards? You could have brought up the game Durant killed them in OT... while conveniently ignoring the other time, where he didn't and Toronto won. What does it matter that they lost to the Knicks a couple times? Some teams matchup better than others. Knicks played well down the stretch, Toronto didn't.

As for why Toronto can't be like GS or Portland, a lot of it is 'luck'. They've hit on great players with later lottery picks and in Portland's case, they had some dumb#### take Bargnani ahead of Aldridge.

I guess that's my point - you are not going to luck out in draft if you're not in the position to get there. I look at our decisions not to rebuild in recent years and see what its got us - Ed Davis instead of or Cousins, George, or Terrence Ross instead of Lillard, even Demar Derozan instead of Curry. Would we have hit on all of these guys if we had been rebuilding? Definitely not. But at least we would been in a position to get "lucky". I don't see Lowry and Derozan as franchise players, and if we don't rebuild, I don't see much of a chance we will get one. At this point my only hope is that Valanciunas becomes a stud.

And yes, I did cherry pick games. My point was more that we don't have a guy on our roster that can take over a game and carry us to a win. Despite the regular season record, I don't think the Raptors would have beaten the Wizards - Gortat and Nene would have destroyed us inside and Wall is a great player. It would have been a better matchup for Derozan, however. I get that anecdotal evidence sucks to guys like you, but that's how I see it.

ETA one last thing: I probably should have qualified all of my statements with this: I did very much enjoy this season, and especially the playoffs. I'm glad the Raptors competed and didn't rebuild this year. But I am not satisfied with that, and believe that to achieve what I hope this franchise can achieve, it would have actually been better if they rebuilt.

 

[scoobus]

So round one is done of that pool I mentioned a while back. I had 1027 points, going with Aldridge, Curry, Wall, Nowitzki, and Randolph. Guy in first place has 1187 points, and went with Curry, Griffin, Aldridge, Lililard, and Harden.

For those who dont remember, points is determined by PTS+REBS+ASTS, over however many games the series goes. Once you use a player, he can not be used again. Everyone in the league chose Curry. Most people also chose Aldridge. Lowry had about 1/2 the guys choose him, similar amount for Wall.

Thoughts on who to go with this round? Thinking Lilliard, Griffin, Paul, Johnson, and George?

Thanks for posting this, I posted 5 guys in this thread for the first round and forgot about it. Time to go add it up.

How many people are entered in your thing, and where does your 1027 points rank?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I see our success as much a function of incompetence and tanking in the rest of the East as it is improvement in from our players. The Raptors would not have sniffed a playoff spot in the West.

To answer Cliff - to be honest I'd probably prefer Cleveland right now. Kyrie has his flaws but he's better than anyone on our team. The rest of the team isn't great, but there's talent there - their bigger problem is their lack of chemistry. Plus, they will have another high pick this year that should bring in another talented player. I have a vivid memory of watching this team late in the season against Washington...it was a close game but John Wall just took over in the 4th quarter, and it was obvious to me that we didn't have a similar type of talent on this squad. I think the Cav's aren't a great template - they aren't a well run club. But I look at teams like Portland and Golden State, and wonder why we can't be like them? They've built great teams based on strong draft picks that turned out to be stars, followed up by complimentary free agent signings. We don't have those stars, imo.

Toronto was 12-7 vs the West post-trade. To say they wouldn't sniff the playoffs in the West is wrong.

Lowry blew Irving out of the water this year across the board. Pick whatever metric you want. Will that continue? Maybe. Maybe not. Cleveland has been terrible for 4 straights years. Do you see contention in their future? Hell, do you see playoffs in their near future? I sure don't. Maybe in 3-4 years they can contend again. That is if Irving doesn't leave.

You're cherry picking games. Are you going to ignore the other 3 games where the Raptors beat the Wizards? You could have brought up the game Durant killed them in OT... while conveniently ignoring the other time, where he didn't and Toronto won. What does it matter that they lost to the Knicks a couple times? Some teams matchup better than others. Knicks played well down the stretch, Toronto didn't.

As for why Toronto can't be like GS or Portland, a lot of it is 'luck'. They've hit on great players with later lottery picks and in Portland's case, they had some dumb#### take Bargnani ahead of Aldridge.

I guess that's my point - you are not going to luck out in draft if you're not in the position to get there. I look at our decisions not to rebuild in recent years and see what its got us - Ed Davis instead of or Cousins, George, or Terrence Ross instead of Lillard, even Demar Derozan instead of Curry. Would we have hit on all of these guys if we had been rebuilding? Definitely not. But at least we would been in a position to get "lucky". I don't see Lowry and Derozan as franchise players, and if we don't rebuild, I don't see much of a chance we will get one. At this point my only hope is that Valanciunas becomes a stud.And yes, I did cherry pick games. My point was more that we don't have a guy on our roster that can take over a game and carry us to a win. Despite the regular season record, I don't think the Raptors would have beaten the Wizards - Gortat and Nene would have destroyed us inside and Wall is a great player. It would have been a better matchup for Derozan, however. I get that anecdotal evidence sucks to guys like you, but that's how I see it.

So you didn't watch game 5 when Lowry scored 35 and single handedly won the game? How many times did Wall do that in the 1st round?

I don't understand your argument. The draft is more or less a crapshoot. Using hindsight for 'what could have been' is pretty terrible.

Toronto handle Washington pretty easily during the regular season. I don't know why you believe that would be a worse matchup.

They aren't franchise guys. And they aren't being paid like it. I'd prefer that over 'franchise' guys like Bosh or Melo.

ETA: And what have Portland or GS done? GS played as many playoff games as Toronto did this season if that is the benchmark you want to use. Portland is going to get one more round, so, yay for them?

And don't forget, Lowry >>> Lillard this season. Aldridge and Derozan compare very similarly (with rebounding being a big difference as expected). Both volume scores who rely on the long 2. In fact, Derozan was a more efficient scorer than Aldridge. If wouldn't be tough to make an argument that Lowry and Derozan are a better combo than Lillard and Aldridge.

You really seem to have low opinions of Lowry and Derozan and high opinions of anyone not on the Raptors.

 

[mlbnfl]

As probably expected by my optimism of multiple playoff births in the near future I too think flat out tanking is the wrong idea. First off this was the year to do it and even when we tried to tank we went the other way so there are no guarantees and had we dealt Lowry to the Knicks we probably at best land a top 10 pick, not near top 5. The team had a lot of ups this year to hang onto and keep moving forward. Do I think the team has the ability to win it all as currently constructed, of course not, but you can count the number of teams on one hand that have that ability. As for building a team that can consistently reach the playoffs and be expected to go deeper into the playoffs and then actually succeed in doing so, absolutely I think the core is there and maybe Vince comes next year for a stronger wing off the bench.

I trust that Masai will make smart decisions and that's all you can do at this point. I certainly think theres no going back now, this core has had a taste of winning and the only option is to try to keep winning as much as possible (and like I said I think that's the right way to go now). Would we have been better off in 3-5 years had we successfully tanked this year and ended up with one of the heralded top 4-6 picks? Maybe, but we probably don't have Lowry anymore (and considering the best offer we actually had on the table was a 1st multiple years down the road and one of either Shumpert or Hardaway Jr, I don't think that trade would have improved the future all that much) and we move forward with the same core we have now except a rook instead of Lowry and hope that rookie pans out. Not too soon thought as at that point we would want him to do just bad enough to get another high lottery pick the next year.

I know it may not seem like it but I was on board with tanking just like most others were early on, especially after 6-12. But this team came together and did something fairly special, with a very strong showing post trade and they really do seem to have amazing chemistry and brotherhood as a group (I hope Patterson doesn't bolt as I could see him being more about the money even though he said he wants to stay and I believe him but Greivis really seems to love being in Toronto). Had game 7 down one with possession, all you can ask for in the end. Certainly I wish they had pulled off the comeback in game 3 and managed to end this thing 4-1, but who knows what would have transpired after game 3 had they won it.

I guess to end my incoherent rambling I think Lowry is a true star. He is incredibly unlikely to lead the Raptors to a championship but I think if things fall into place, one key addition could really push this team to an actual legitimate contender for the Eastern crown. They may never be favored, but I think the pieces are there that one more right move by Masai could really change the mentality from "they'll get swept by the Heat" to people really feeling like the Heat will be challenged and a series could go 6-7 games. Who knows, in a few years Wade will probably be very broken down and who knows what the East will look like, we could be sitting neat the top. Just have to hope whatever Masai does works out and thing fall into place.

 

[mlbnfl]

I should've said Lowry is unlikely to lead to a title as currently constructed but I could tell it was getting away from me and I was just rambling without a huge point. I didn't even want to add but I think JV will be without a doubt a good enough big to be on a title team and I think Ross should turn into a consistent scorer (maybe off the bench in the future) and I think the post saying his defense is average but Demars improved is way off. Maybe Demar was improved some regular season but he got pretty torched this playoffs and I think its fair to say Ross is our best perimeter defender already (maybe Landry is better overall defensively but he never plays).

 

[the moops]

So round one is done of that pool I mentioned a while back. I had 1027 points, going with Aldridge, Curry, Wall, Nowitzki, and Randolph. Guy in first place has 1187 points, and went with Curry, Griffin, Aldridge, Lililard, and Harden.

For those who dont remember, points is determined by PTS+REBS+ASTS, over however many games the series goes. Once you use a player, he can not be used again. Everyone in the league chose Curry. Most people also chose Aldridge. Lowry had about 1/2 the guys choose him, similar amount for Wall.

Thoughts on who to go with this round? Thinking Lilliard, Griffin, Paul, Johnson, and George?

Thanks for posting this, I posted 5 guys in this thread for the first round and forgot about it. Time to go add it up.

How many people are entered in your thing, and where does your 1027 points rank?

19 guys. The 1027 places me 12th.

Was a $25 buy-in. First place in each round gets $15. Top finisher gets $265, 2nd gets $100, 3rd gets $50.

Any thoughts for this round? Missing out on Harden and/or Howard sucks. Both those guys scored real well. As did Derozan and Lowry.

 

[Ghost Rider]

In the Cavs last eight LeBron James-less seasons, they have averaged 26 wins a season. So, unless they get lucky and land a future all-world player in the draft, I'll believe they are gonna a real contender again when I see it.

 

[Abraham]

Wow. That is really bad.

 

[Gr00vus]

Also, doesn't Irving want out?

 

[scoobus]

So round one is done of that pool I mentioned a while back. I had 1027 points, going with Aldridge, Curry, Wall, Nowitzki, and Randolph. Guy in first place has 1187 points, and went with Curry, Griffin, Aldridge, Lililard, and Harden.

For those who dont remember, points is determined by PTS+REBS+ASTS, over however many games the series goes. Once you use a player, he can not be used again. Everyone in the league chose Curry. Most people also chose Aldridge. Lowry had about 1/2 the guys choose him, similar amount for Wall.

Thoughts on who to go with this round? Thinking Lilliard, Griffin, Paul, Johnson, and George?

Thanks for posting this, I posted 5 guys in this thread for the first round and forgot about it. Time to go add it up.

How many people are entered in your thing, and where does your 1027 points rank?

19 guys. The 1027 places me 12th.

Was a $25 buy-in. First place in each round gets $15. Top finisher gets $265, 2nd gets $100, 3rd gets $50.

Any thoughts for this round? Missing out on Harden and/or Howard sucks. Both those guys scored real well. As did Derozan and Lowry.

Looks like I ended up with 1106 for the first round (Lillard, Aldridge, Curry, DeRozan, Wall).

Ideally you want premier players on teams who will get eliminated, and hopefully in series that go 6 or 7 games. With 3 out of the 4 series being tossups IMO, and with Brooklyn possibly going out in 4 or 5, it's tough to really pinpoint any obvious picks. I think Lillard is a fairly logical choice since you haven't used him, after that it's anyone's guess. I'll post my 2nd round team before the games tonight.

 

[Abraham]

I had:

Derozan - 221
Howard - 249
Noah - 139
Aldridge - 258
Wall - 151

1018 total.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Doh..

Lillard has never scored less than 20 points against the Spurs, and his average of 26.3 points in seven career games against the Spurs is his highest average against anyone.

LaMarcus Aldridge has been as successful. His career field-goal percentage against the Spurs is better than against any franchise

From this local link.

 

[hxperson]

You really seem to have low opinions of Lowry and Derozan and high opinions of anyone not on the Raptors.

This is probably what it comes down to. I've watched Derozan for far too long now, and I just don't see him being anything other than a guy who is good at creating his own shot, but unable to create for or utilize his teammates and a mediocre defender at best.

I'm not sure why you say Derozan is more efficient than Aldridge - LMA was top 20 in PER this season while Derozan was 56th, and had a 45% FG vs 42%, with less turnovers and equal FT%. And I think there are rather obvious reasons why one would feel that making the playoffs in the West is an accomplishment while making the playoffs in the East is not this year.

I've probably been a bit too hard on Lowry - I do think he is a borderline star. I think this is as good as he's going to get though, while the other guys like Wall, Irving, and Lillard have more upside due to their age and size.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You really seem to have low opinions of Lowry and Derozan and high opinions of anyone not on the Raptors.

This is probably what it comes down to. I've watched Derozan for far too long now, and I just don't see him being anything other than a guy who is good at creating his own shot, but unable to create for or utilize his teammates and a mediocre defender at best. I'm not sure why you say Derozan is more efficient than Aldridge - LMA was top 20 in PER this season while Derozan was 56th, and had a 45% FG vs 42%, with less turnovers and equal FT%. And I think there are rather obvious reasons why one would feel that making the playoffs in the West is an accomplishment while making the playoffs in the East is not this year.

I've probably been a bit too hard on Lowry - I do think he is a borderline star. I think this is as good as he's going to get though, while the other guys like Wall, Irving, and Lillard have more upside due to their age and size.

Not PER (though DD was 5th @ SG). PER loves rebounds so it isn't a very apt comparison between a PF and a SG. I was just talking about scoring; TS% in particular (.532 > .507). If you want to look at points per shot, it really isn't close. Derozan was 47th with 1.27. Aldridge was 108th with 1.13. Derozan did have a slightly higher turnover rate but that come with a much higher assist rate.

Again, I'll point out the Raptors record vs the West post trade was excellent. The East / West argument doesn't hold much weight for them. Their winning % vs the East was actually lower than vs the West post trade.

Lowry was much, much more than a borderline star this year. He was the 3rd best PG in the league. Yeah, you'd rather take the couple guys right behind him because of age (Lillard, Wall, Irving) but you're also only going to be paying about 60% the price for Lowry (but I guess we'll have to wait and see the deal he signs).

 

[Abraham]

Doh..

Lillard has never scored less than 20 points against the Spurs, and his average of 26.3 points in seven career games against the Spurs is his highest average against anyone.

LaMarcus Aldridge has been as successful. His career field-goal percentage against the Spurs is better than against any franchise

From this local link.

I found a link for you that might make you feel a little better about the series.

My Link

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Ha I saw that pic making the rounds. Its a good'n. Last one was in '07 and father time waits for no man.

 

[General Malaise]

Doh..

Lillard has never scored less than 20 points against the Spurs, and his average of 26.3 points in seven career games against the Spurs is his highest average against anyone.

LaMarcus Aldridge has been as successful. His career field-goal percentage against the Spurs is better than against any franchise

From this local link.

I found a link for you that might make you feel a little better about the series.

My Link

Plus, I put $$ on the Portland to win the series at +280.

1) Vegas thinks the Blazers have no shot and

B) I make William H. Macy in The Cooler look like a veritable Muse by comparison.

I'd sleep well at night. Hope this series is as fun as the Houston series.

 

[General Malaise]

Ha I saw that pic making the rounds. Its a good'n. Last one was in '07 and father time waits for no man.

Tanner must be blowing him or something.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

+280 sounds really good actually.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Tickets in Miami are almost half than in Brooklyn

https://www.stubhub.com/miami-heat-playoff-tickets/miami-heat-miami-american-airlines-arena-5-14-2014-8989072/

You can sit lower center for $550 a ticket in Miami for game 5 (which will prob be the series ender), but you can't get a game 4 ticket in Brooklyn for lower center for under $900... I bet if you hold out and it is 3-0 those $900 tickets will be $500 by game time next Monday.

https://www.stubhub.com/brooklyn-nets-playoff-tickets/brooklyn-nets-brooklyn-barclays-center-5-12-2014-8989735/

 

[Abraham]

+280 sounds really good actually.

Agreed.

 

[fantasycurse42]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Maybe it is me, but isn't 1 - 3 free money for the Heat in the Eastern Conference?

I'm not a huge gambler, but is there any chance they don't win the east? Like, this is basically free money - 33 cents for every dollar you wager.

 

[Abraham]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Maybe it is me, but isn't 1 - 3 free money for the Heat in the Eastern Conference?

I'm not a huge gambler, but is there any chance they don't win the east? Like, this is basically free money - 33 cents for every dollar you wager.

You're gambling on a Lebron injury. And even then I'm not sure they aren't still the favorites with Wade and Bosh playing.

 

[scoobus]

Durant

Westbrook

Parker

George

Beal

 

[fantasycurse42]

Just turned the game on, Hibbert invisible on the stat line... How'd he look so far? Performance match the stats?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Just turned the game on, Hibbert invisible on the stat line... How'd he look so far? Performance match the stats?

Looks awful!

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Casey to get 3 year extension.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Where is pizzatyme to talk about how good this is?