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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (12 Viewers)

Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
My vote is for Phil Jackson. I don't know much about the coaches of the 50s, 60s, 70s as I tuned in to the NBA in '79 when Magic man and Bird joined to make the game exciting.
Obviously I love Phil. But he had more to work with. Pops seems to constantly find players who buy into his system, play great defense and seamless offense. Also, his use of minutes to rest his old vets in the regular season to get them ready for this is nothing short of brilliant.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
If we are including college, he's not even seated at the head table.
I'm a huge fan of John Wooden and a few other college coaches, but this is something else entirely. The skill of play is so much higher than any college basketball game that I really can't agree with you. I think if I were listed the 30 greatest basketball coaches of all time, the first 10 at least would have to be NBA coaches.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
My vote is for Phil Jackson. I don't know much about the coaches of the 50s, 60s, 70s as I tuned in to the NBA in '79 when Magic man and Bird joined to make the game exciting.
Obviously I love Phil. But he had more to work with. Pops seems to constantly find players who buy into his system, play great defense and seamless offense. Also, his use of minutes to rest his old vets in the regular season to get them ready for this is nothing short of brilliant.
I don't think it was as easy as we think. I remember the Kobe/Shaq stuff that finally sent Shaq out of LA. To get high egos to mesh together with one thinking he's "God" at the age of 18 cannot be easy. I like Phil's style of thinking and coaching. I don't know how many times I was yelling at the tv back in the day when he was with the Lakers to call a time out or take out someone with too many fouls. He'd just sit there cool as a cucumber and let them work it out even in key games which I've never seen any other coach do.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
If we are including college, he's not even seated at the head table.
Why would you count a college coach ahead of him?
Why wouldn't I? College coaches don't get to keep Tim Duncan for 20 years.
Pop doesn't get to play College of Charleston and a 9 seed to get through 1/3 of their championship run.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
My vote is for Phil Jackson. I don't know much about the coaches of the 50s, 60s, 70s as I tuned in to the NBA in '79 when Magic man and Bird joined to make the game exciting.
Obviously I love Phil. But he had more to work with. Pops seems to constantly find players who buy into his system, play great defense and seamless offense. Also, his use of minutes to rest his old vets in the regular season to get them ready for this is nothing short of brilliant.
I don't think it was as easy as we think. I remember the Kobe/Shaq stuff that finally sent Shaq out of LA. To get high egos to mesh together with one thinking he's "God" at the age of 18 cannot be easy. I like Phil's style of thinking and coaching. I don't know how many times I was yelling at the tv back in the day when he was with the Lakers to call a time out or take out someone with too many fouls. He'd just sit there cool as a cucumber and let them work it out even in key games which I've never seen any other coach do.
He's an incredible coach. He's probably my #2. But I think Pops is #1.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
If we are including college, he's not even seated at the head table.
Why would you count a college coach ahead of him?
Why wouldn't I? College coaches don't get to keep Tim Duncan for 20 years.
Pop doesn't get to play College of Charleston and a 9 seed to get through 1/3 of their championship run.
You may well be right. Full disclosure: I can't stand the guy.

 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
My vote is for Phil Jackson. I don't know much about the coaches of the 50s, 60s, 70s as I tuned in to the NBA in '79 when Magic man and Bird joined to make the game exciting.
Obviously I love Phil. But he had more to work with. Pops seems to constantly find players who buy into his system, play great defense and seamless offense. Also, his use of minutes to rest his old vets in the regular season to get them ready for this is nothing short of brilliant.
I don't think it was as easy as we think. I remember the Kobe/Shaq stuff that finally sent Shaq out of LA. To get high egos to mesh together with one thinking he's "God" at the age of 18 cannot be easy. I like Phil's style of thinking and coaching. I don't know how many times I was yelling at the tv back in the day when he was with the Lakers to call a time out or take out someone with too many fouls. He'd just sit there cool as a cucumber and let them work it out even in key games which I've never seen any other coach do.
He's an incredible coach. He's probably my #2. But I think Pops is #1.
1. Phil

2. Pop

...for me...

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
Man if they did pay all 4...

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
Man if they did pay all 4...
I don't know. I think they need a defensive minded coach. Also, how in the hell can Danny Green guard Durant?

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
They chose defense over offense. And their defense still stinks.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They wanted roster flexibility going forward because if you have Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka you are not allowed to trade any of them in the future if it doesn't work out. :thumbup:

It is amazing that the players got locked out and settled for less. They had all the leverage. It was obvious. Live sporting events equals advertising dollars. Amateur hour. Once the players union get's their house in order labor unrest is on the forefront. They will win too. Salary cap will go way up as well as max deals.

Think J. Ellsbury makes more then Lebron. Market correction coming.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
They chose Perkins over Harden. The didn't want to pay to amnesty Perkins. They could have paid all 4 and still been under the luxury tax. To save $12million, they cost themselves a chance to compete for at least two championships.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.

Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They wanted roster flexibility going forward because if you have Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka you are not allowed to trade any of them in the future if it doesn't work out. :thumbup:

It is amazing that the players got locked out and settled for less. They had all the leverage. It was obvious. Live sporting events equals advertising dollars. Amateur hour. Once the players union get's their house in order labor unrest is on the forefront. They will win too. Salary cap will go way up as well as max deals.

Think J. Ellsbury makes more then Lebron. Market correction coming.
The max deals aren't something that the union would fight strongly. How many players does that really affect? Maybe a dozen?

 
B. Be in a game where the refs called fouls on him, since his entire offense relied on the refs swallowing their whistles.


This is insanely stupid and wreaks of someone who doesn't understand post play or even the game in general.

Shaq was technically proficient from a fundamentals and footwork standpoint. The size and quickness made him that much better.



 
Serious question: is Pops the greatest coach in the history of basketball? I'm not even a Spurs fan, and I'm thinking- maybe so.
If we are including college, he's not even seated at the head table.
I'm a huge fan of John Wooden and a few other college coaches, but this is something else entirely. The skill of play is so much higher than any college basketball game that I really can't agree with you. I think if I were listed the 30 greatest basketball coaches of all time, the first 10 at least would have to be NBA coaches.
Yeah, I don't know if college coaches can handle a faster car so to speak.

Who coaches the olympic team again?

 
B. Be in a game where the refs called fouls on him, since his entire offense relied on the refs swallowing their whistles.


This is insanely stupid and wreaks of someone who doesn't understand post play or even the game in general.

Shaq was technically proficient from a fundamentals and footwork standpoint. The size and quickness made him that much better.

He also got away with murder running over people backwards.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
No. They chose not to use their Gilbert Arenas option on Perkins over keeping Harden. That's what makes it worse.

 
Do they fire Brooks tomorrow or wait until Monday?
Vogel's staying.Besides, Premier is absolutely right. It wasn't Brooks who traded Harden away. I could make a good argument that the Spurs of 2 years ago was even better than this team or last year- they were certainly 2 years younger, and they looked unbeatable, until OKC ran them off the court. Who was on that Thunder team then that isn't on this team?
I don't remember why they traded Harden...
They chose Ibaka over Harden. Didn't want to pay all 4.
They chose Perkins over Harden. The didn't want to pay to amnesty Perkins. They could have paid all 4 and still been under the luxury tax. To save $12million, they cost themselves a chance to compete for at least two championships.
:goodposting: :goodposting:

 
What kind of contract do you expect Stephenson to get? Also do you think he will stay with the Pacers? I'm guessing he ends up elsewhere to tune of about 7-8 mil over 4 years.
I wouldn't want him to be a Knick... He isn't a winner and his antics and immaturity will never give any team that extra nudge to be a champion. He is a solid player on the court nonetheless, but I just don't think he is worth it, not even close.

With that being said, the NBA is fairly generous with overpriced contracts that hurt a team for years, so I expect him to be overpaid and provide a small, but not close to his contract type boost of help wherever he lands. I expect a 3/32 or 4/40 type contract... Hopefully on the Lakers :thumbup:

 
If Lebron wins this one, I think it would be his greatest accomplishment to date. This Spurs team is better and more motivated than last year and the Heat supporting cast is dreadful.

 
If Lebron wins this one, I think it would be his greatest accomplishment to date. This Spurs team is better and more motivated than last year and the Heat supporting cast is dreadful.
It'll look a lot better if Tony Parker is anywhere near 100%. Keeping fingers crossed, since that's probably important just to have a good series. :unsure:

 
If Lebron wins this one, I think it would be his greatest accomplishment to date. This Spurs team is better and more motivated than last year and the Heat supporting cast is dreadful.
Agreed.

Sadly, if the Heat lose, the floodgates will be opened once again as his critics call him a choker, overrated, etc.

 
If Lebron wins this one, I think it would be his greatest accomplishment to date. This Spurs team is better and more motivated than last year and the Heat supporting cast is dreadful.
Agreed.

Sadly, if the Heat lose, the floodgates will be opened once again as his critics call him a choker, overrated, etc.
And whether it's rightly deserved will come down to his personal play. If he plays like the greatest player on the planet, and yet his team outclassed that's one thing. Maybe Dwayne Wade ends up getting a migraine and can't play in Game 7, but he still scores 31 points, dishes out 9, grabs 8 boards with the entire Spurs team focused on him. And the team loses by 20. That's no detriment to Lebron. Coming out like he did against the Mavericks, like he didn't care about being there since his team was outclassed, well that's a different beast.

 
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I like Kevin Durant, but it's interesting that he is getting a pass, despite playing with another top 5 player, and not getting a ring again.

Meanwhile, LeBron James won the MVP with an otherwise mediocre Cavs team and was crucified when he lost in the playoffs.

 
I like Kevin Durant, but it's interesting that he is getting a pass, despite playing with another top 5 player, and not getting a ring again.

Meanwhile, LeBron James won the MVP with an otherwise mediocre Cavs team and was crucified when he lost in the playoffs.
Nobody is going to try and call Kevin Durant the greatest player of all time. And besides, Kevin Durant has received quite a bit of criticism in these playoffs. That goes along with playing under your capabilities while your team loses.

 
I like Kevin Durant, but it's interesting that he is getting a pass, despite playing with another top 5 player, and not getting a ring again.

Meanwhile, LeBron James won the MVP with an otherwise mediocre Cavs team and was crucified when he lost in the playoffs.
The weekday ESPN HOT SPORTS TAKES crowd hasn't checked in yet.

 
The Thunder dynamic is interesting, though. They lost last night cause Westbrook tried to play hero ball in OT and missed tons of shots, but on the flip side, Durant needs to stop being so passive and letting Westbrook dominate the ball like that. I don't think Scott Brooks is a bad coach, but they need one who can reign Westbrook in at times and actually let their best player touch the ball at critical times. I mean, that 3 Westbrook heaved with like 8 seconds left in OT last night, the one that went over the backboard, just epitomized his mentality.

 
And Durant barely escaped getting destroyed when they pulled out the Memphis series. They were down 3-2 with him coming off back to back horrible performances and he was getting blasted. Luckily for him he played up to his capabilities down the stretch in the series and the team managed to pull it out or he and his MVP award would have been getting pummeled on.

This is what happened to Lebron. He played like complete crap for a few games during each of these series, and his heavily favored team ended up going down. In 2010, his heavily favored team was up 2-1. He played like crap in games 4 and 5, complete crap. And his heavily favored team folded in 6. And then there's the Mavericks series, where his performance was absurdly horrible for a 5 game stretch.

This is how choking is defined for a lot of people. It isn't simply your team losing a series - it's your team losing the series they were heavily favored in with you being in chump mode for a significant part of it.

 
Only in your world is 22-9-8 (his 2010 Game 4 statline against Boston) considered "complete crap."

And you wonder why almost no one is taking your posts seriously here anymore. :lol:

 
I don't even look at Lebron's Orlando performance as a real choke job. He played like a man in that series, unfortunately for him Dwight Howard was playing like a beast and had a bit better of a supporting cast. There were a couple of ridiculously bad performances against the Celtics the year before as well, but they weren't going to beat that Celtics team, he was young, had a lot riding on him. I'll give a pass there too. I was on the Lebron side of the Lebron vs Kobe mess that occurred - he had portrayed himself as very likable at that point.

Two defining moments in his career happened that can never be erased though - and it's that ridiculous Celtics series. He seemed to just want out of Cleveland at that point and didn't really care about showing up in that series. Games 4 and 5 were a scar on his resume. And the Mavericks series was just ridiculous. Prior to those moments I felt that Lebron was making his case for GOAT. But that erased all of that. When you're going against Michael Jordan in a 7 game series, you can't let up for a second or you will lose. Every time. And Lebron let up. It's over, Jordan just buried you. People can find this ridiculous all they like, but no amount of lifetime achievement awards are going to get this back in play. An extra MVP which is subjective, titles are team awards. He'd have to reach new levels of dominance that Jordan didn't achieve, and I just don't see that happening. He let up, and he lost.

 
B. Be in a game where the refs called fouls on him, since his entire offense relied on the refs swallowing their whistles.


This is insanely stupid and wreaks of someone who doesn't understand post play or even the game in general.

Shaq was technically proficient from a fundamentals and footwork standpoint. The size and quickness made him that much better.

He also got away with murder running over people backwards.
Blake Griffin and David West get away with much worse.

 
Only in your world is 22-9-8 (his 2010 Game 4 statline against Boston) considered "complete crap."

And you wonder why almost no one is taking your posts seriously here anymore. :lol:
22 points on 18 shots (.389 shooting), 7 turnovers, and a sub 15 GmSc (13.8) since Tobias likes that measure I guess. Yes, that's a bad performance. As Tobias noted, Jordan only had 17 sub 15 GmSc games in his entire 179 game playoff career, so this is going to rank in the bottom 10% of his performances including when he had come back the 2nd time and wasn't even as good. I'm not judging this by normal human being standards, I'm judging this by GOAT standards. And with performances like that - you lose. Jordan just dropped 45 and made you look stupid.

 
Or with a 2-1 series lead against the Pistons in '89, Jordan shot 5 for 15 from the field.

Or in the pivotal Game 5 against the Pistons again in '90, Jordan shot 7 for 19 from the field. Oh, and he was 5 for 16 in Game 1 of that series.

Oops.

 

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