*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[Del Griffith]

Good to see the NBA went back to the 2-2-1-1-1 schedule for the Finals. Spurs in 7

 

[got_nugs]

Only in your world is 22-9-8 (his 2010 Game 4 statline against Boston) considered "complete crap."

And you wonder why almost no one is taking your posts seriously here anymore.

22 points on 18 shots (.389 shooting), 7 turnovers, and a sub 15 GmSc (13.8) since Tobias likes that measure I guess. Yes, that's a bad performance. As Tobias noted, Jordan only had 17 sub 15 GmSc games in his entire 179 game playoff career, so this is going to rank in the bottom 10% of his performances including when he had come back the 2nd time and wasn't even as good. I'm not judging this by normal human being standards, I'm judging this by GOAT standards. And with performances like that - you lose. Jordan just dropped 45 and made you look stupid.

Michael Jordan couldn't even make the sophomore basketball team. Certainly not worthy in comparing vs GOAT standards.

That's how silly you sound to every single reader on this board....but hey, keep preaching about 2010.

 

[Abraham]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

 

[the moops]

####### dr j really bangs up these threads with his ridiculousness. jesus

 

[Freelove]

B. Be in a game where the refs called fouls on him, since his entire offense relied on the refs swallowing their whistles.

This is insanely stupid and wreaks of someone who doesn't understand post play or even the game in general.

Shaq was technically proficient from a fundamentals and footwork standpoint. The size and quickness made him that much better.

He also got away with murder running over people backwards.

Blake Griffin and David West get away with much worse.

You're an apologist for a guy you like. It's okay.

You're wrong on all accounts, but I wish you well.

 

[got_nugs]

My favorite thing ever (today)

(it's on deadspin if you don't trust the linky)

 

[DrJ]

Or with a 2-1 series lead against the Pistons in '89, Jordan shot 5 for 15 from the field.

Or in the pivotal Game 5 against the Pistons again in '90, Jordan shot 7 for 19 from the field. Oh, and he was 5 for 16 in Game 1 of that series.

Oops.

Jordan's play wasn't entirely up to snuff in the 89' series, but the team was clearly outmatched and they weren't going to be winning that one and he was asked to do too much overall. He wasn't even supposed to be there except for "The Shot" - they were the 6 seed playing in the conference finals. You can't really call that a choke job. I gave Lebron a pass for his -.7 and 6.8 GmSc performances to open the 08 Celtics series though because his team was clearly outmatched and he was being asked to do too much. Again, can't really call that one a choke job.

Again in 90 Jordan's team was outmatched, and it's harder to call losing to a better team in the conference finals a choke job. It's not anything like Lebron's heavily favored team losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs. But beyond that very key difference in how these events should be perceived, he played far better than Lebron did in that uninspired Celtics series, pushing it to 7 games before Scottie pulled up with a migraine and they got blown out despite a terrific performance on his behalf. None of Jordan's performance would show up on Tobias list of 17 below 15 GmSc games. Meanwhile 2 of Lebron's would, one of them would be near the worst playoff performances ever put up between the two of these guys. We can rank the Jordan vs Lebron performances in GmSc and Jordan just buries him here. Few of his games are even far below Lebron's average for the series.

Jordan Average - 24.81

Lebron Average - 21.95

1 - Lebron James, 36.9, Game 3

2 - Michael Jordan, 35.4, Game 4

3 - Michael Jordan, 33.4, Game 3

4 - Lebron James - 31.6, Game 1

5 - Michael Jordan - 26.7, Game 1

6 - Michael Jordan - 23.0, Game 7

7 - Lebron James - 22.1, Game 6

8 - Michael Jordan - 20.6, Game 6

9 - Lebron James - 18.2, Game 2

10 - Michael Jordan - 17.5, Game 5

11 - Michael Jordan - 17.1, Game 2

12 - Lebron James - 13.8, Game 4

13 - Lebron James - 9.1, Game 5

 

[DrJ]

And just for reference, here were Lebron's GmSc's in the Mavericks series:

Game 1 - 21.0

Game 2 - 15.6

Game 3 - 13.6

Game 4 - 5.9

Game 5 - 12.4

Game 6 - 13.6

But yeah, Michael Jordan's performance against the favored Pistons in 90' is in the same arena as this.

 

[Abraham]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

 

[DrJ]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

I'm surprised a basketball expert such as yourself doesn't remember, but Jordan had just come back from retirement with 17 games remaining in the season. And they were short at PF with Horace playing for the other team.

ETA: I'm especially surprised you don't remember since this was one of the years the Rockets were able to sneak in a title.

 

[Abraham]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

I'm surprised a basketball expert such as yourself doesn't remember, but Jordan had just come back from retirement with 17 games remaining in the season. And they were short at PF with Horace playing for the other team.

I'm confused. They went to the ECF the year before. They would then win three more titles. They added Michael Jordan and lost. I at the Jordan crazies that give him a pass because it's convenient. You can't have it both ways, pointing out the success while glossing over the failures when it's convenient.

Eta - the rockets would have destroyed the bulls both years. Was will Perdue or Bill webbing yo not longley going to stop Hakeem when even Shaq and Ewing couldn't?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Great post from GG , well except for the fact he doesn't know what position Durant plays.

 

[Abraham]

Great post from GG , well except for the fact he doesn't know what position Durant plays.

that's your punishment for reading it in the first place.

 

[DrJ]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

I'm surprised a basketball expert such as yourself doesn't remember, but Jordan had just come back from retirement with 17 games remaining in the season. And they were short at PF with Horace playing for the other team.

I'm confused. They went to the ECF the year before. They would then win three more titles. They added Michael Jordan and lost.

I at the Jordan crazies that give him a pass because it's convenient. You can't have it both ways, pointing out the success while glossing over the failures when it's convenient.

No, they didn't. The Knicks took them out in the 2nd round the year before, it was the Knicks vs Pacers in the ECF that season. And they also had Horace that season. They lost Horace, they added a rusty Michael. I can't believe the years that Hakeem was gifted a couple of titles thanks to Jordan are so foggy to you.

 

[DrJ]

Hell, David Robinson should be thanking Jordan as well. He might not have a title other than as a side piece had Phil and Jordan not dismantled the Bulls in their prime for a 2nd time.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

It was time 2 years ago guy.

Kendrick Perkins - C - Thunder
When Scott Brooks was asked whether it was time to "turn the page" on Kendrick Perkins the coach was reluctant to give a definitive answer.
"That remains to be seen," said Brooks. "There’s a lot of work to be done this summer." Perkins finished the 2013-14 season with averages of 3.4 points, 4.9 rebounds, and 0.5 blocks while averaging 20 minutes per game. Those are not the numbers of a serviceable center in the NBA, and it's a bit curious as to what exactly "remains to be seen." While Brooks may be uncertain with what he's doing with his lineups, fantasy owners can be certain that Perkins is not a viable asset.


Source: Darnell Mayberry on Twitter

 

[Abraham]

Still waiting on an answer to the "who guards Hakeem?" Question. Been waiting for a long time and just like the bulls fans that forget losing to Orlando, they forget to answer this one as well.

 

[DrJ]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

I'm surprised a basketball expert such as yourself doesn't remember, but Jordan had just come back from retirement with 17 games remaining in the season. And they were short at PF with Horace playing for the other team.

I'm confused. They went to the ECF the year before. They would then win three more titles. They added Michael Jordan and lost.I at the Jordan crazies that give him a pass because it's convenient. You can't have it both ways, pointing out the success while glossing over the failures when it's convenient.

Eta - the rockets would have destroyed the bulls both years. Was will Perdue or Bill webbing yo not longley going to stop Hakeem when even Shaq and Ewing couldn't?

You don't need to stop Hakeem when you've got them absolutely buried at 3 other positions with Michael, Scottie, and Horace while bringing Kukoc off of the bench.

 

[Abraham]

Dr j, what happened when Jordan got beat by the magic? Which excuse will you go to? How is it that the most dominant player ever in the history of the world ever couldn't take a team that went to the EcF the prior year and then won three more titles, how could he lose to a young and inexperienced Orlando team?

When you play Michael Jordan, you can't let up!

I'm surprised a basketball expert such as yourself doesn't remember, but Jordan had just come back from retirement with 17 games remaining in the season. And they were short at PF with Horace playing for the other team.

I'm confused. They went to the ECF the year before. They would then win three more titles. They added Michael Jordan and lost.I at the Jordan crazies that give him a pass because it's convenient. You can't have it both ways, pointing out the success while glossing over the failures when it's convenient.

Eta - the rockets would have destroyed the bulls both years. Was will Perdue or Bill webbing yo not longley going to stop Hakeem when even Shaq and Ewing couldn't?

You don't need to stop Hakeem when you've got them absolutely buried at 3 other positions with Michael, Scottie, and Horace while bringing Kukoc off of the bench.

Horace grant was back on the bulls again?

 

[DrJ]

Seriously - the Bulls without Jordan took the Knicks to 7. And there was the phantom foul call in it. Those same Knicks took the Rockets to 7. It's pretty absurd to think the Bulls don't win the title that year with Jordan.

 

[matuski]

Yeah, but what is Jordan played left handed?

 

[DrJ]

And the following year, Horace probably doesn't leave if Jordan is there and they're the 4 time defending champs. But that's just speculation. It's pretty certain Jordan plays better if he has a full season under his belt, we have plenty of evidence that was true in the following years, but that's also speculation. Maybe Hakeem actually gets one that year. Maybe. But probably not.

 

[Abraham]

Seriously - the Bulls without Jordan took the Knicks to 7. And there was the phantom foul call in it. Those same Knicks took the Rockets to 7. It's pretty absurd to think the Bulls don't win the title that year with Jordan.

 

[DrJ]

Seriously - the Bulls without Jordan took the Knicks to 7. And there was the phantom foul call in it. Those same Knicks took the Rockets to 7. It's pretty absurd to think the Bulls don't win the title that year with Jordan.

Exactly.

 

[saintfool]

My favorite thing ever (today)

(it's on deadspin if you don't trust the linky)

that's ####### awesome.

 

[DrJ]

Cliff's got a new crush. How cute.

 

[Ghost Rider]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

 

[DrJ]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

 

[DrJ]

Scottie Pippen was the Bulls leading rebounder in 94-95. Totally forgot about that one. Wasn't that like the only time in history a guy led his team in Points, Rebounds, Blocks, Steals, and Assists? Or maybe Wilt did it as well. And I'm pretty sure they were in position (barely) to make the playoffs that year even before Jordan returned. Scottie was so under rated - he was the poor man's Lebron James which is why I was very happy pairing him with Jordan for $1 rather than binging on Lebron at $5.

 

[Abraham]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.

I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

 

[DrJ]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.

I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

They did have a fine enough front court the 1st season - Horace was an All Star at that point. Horace leaving left them without ANY front court. Scottie Pippen was the team the following year, almost literally. And I'm not sure that happens if Michael doesn't retire.

I'm not trying to say this is 100% either. But I'm pretty sure this was the conversation you intended to have when you brought up the Magic series, and there are some explanations for what went down around that time.

 

[Ghost Rider]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.

I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

Very true, but Bulls fans can say whatever they want. The Rockets won those two titles, and nothing can change that.

Also, Hakeem sits just outside of my all-time top 10, but I won't argue with anyone putting him in their top 10.

 

[Popinski]

http://youtu.be/7r2qx9X3AC8

I still don't understand how Westbrook didn't get the steal when he doubled Duncan on the pass. It seemed like Duncan didn't even see him until he turned around for the shot.

 

[DrJ]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.

I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

Very true, but Bulls fans can say whatever they want. The Rockets won those two titles, and nothing can change that.

Also, Hakeem sits just outside of my all-time top 10, but I won't argue with anyone putting him in their top 10.

And Lebron choked against the Mavericks, and nothing can change that.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Still waiting on an answer to the "who guards Hakeem?" Question. Been waiting for a long time and just like the bulls fans that forget losing to Orlando, they forget to answer this one as well.

Who guarded him all the other years the rockets didn't win?

 

[Ghost Rider]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.

I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

Very true, but Bulls fans can say whatever they want. The Rockets won those two titles, and nothing can change that.

Also, Hakeem sits just outside of my all-time top 10, but I won't argue with anyone putting him in their top 10.

And Lebron choked against the Mavericks, and nothing can change that.

The Rockets winning two titles is a fact.

You saying that LBJ choked is an opinion.

I am not surprised that you do not understand the difference.

 

[Abraham]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

Very true, but Bulls fans can say whatever they want. The Rockets won those two titles, and nothing can change that.

Also, Hakeem sits just outside of my all-time top 10, but I won't argue with anyone putting him in their top 10.

Magic

Jordan

Russell

Bird

Duncan

Kareem

Hakeem

Wilt

Shaq

Kobe

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

weren't those Rockets lucky to get past the Suns both years?

 

[Ghost Rider]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

Fair enough - he only had one Lebron like performance even after taking a year and 3 quarters off and it was probably more the lack of a front court in 94-95.

Right. Not to antagonize you (apologies for doing so previously) the "bulls would have won" crowd drives me mad because of exactly what you pointed out. They didn't have a good front court those two years. They were ousted by two teams that had a big man as their alpha dog. And the team that won the finals had a big man that was significantly better than Ewing and noticeably better than Shaq.I realize the bulls had Michael Jordan and Scottie pippen. I realize they won six titles in 8 years. I realize all the things in their favor. But Houston had a top 10 time player who, somehow, manages to be underrated in discussions of the 90's at the height of his powers. As a rockets fan, I admit that perhaps the bulls win one or both. What's annoying is I almost never hear any bulls fans say the same about Houston.

Very true, but Bulls fans can say whatever they want. The Rockets won those two titles, and nothing can change that.

Also, Hakeem sits just outside of my all-time top 10, but I won't argue with anyone putting him in their top 10.

Magic

Jordan

Russell

Bird

Duncan

Kareem

Hakeem

Wilt

Shaq

Kobe

See, I have James in there already (around the 8th spot and moving up), with guys like Hakeem and Oscar Robertson just missing the top 10.

 

[Abraham]

weren't those Rockets lucky to get past the Suns both years?

I'm bit sure coming back from 3-1 is "lucky"

 

[fantasycurse42]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

I agree that leaving for baseball doesn't grant him extra credit... It was ridiculously stupid, but it was right after his dad died and he was prob just a little lost. I think had he not left, there is a solid chance the Bulls would've ripped off 8 straight, but it can't be factored in any argument for him since he did leave.With that being said, Lebron is still a decent ways away before being compared to Jordan... As of right now, I don't think he can be compared to Kobe / Magic / Bird / Russell either in the all time rankings - Personally I'd revisit in 2 seasons from now and 4 or 5 rings.

 

[Abraham]

Agreed. I think any argument comparing any player to Jordan has to begin with 5 rings.

 

[Ghost Rider]

A "rusty" Jordan lit it up in the 1995 playoffs (31.5 PPG), so this nonsense about how the Bulls would have won if he had played all year needs to stop. Jordan doesn't get extra credit for two titles he could have won had he not left basketball to go play baseball.

I agree that leaving for baseball doesn't grant him extra credit... It was ridiculously stupid, but it was right after his dad died and he was prob just a little lost. I think had he not left, there is a solid chance the Bulls would've ripped off 8 straight, but it can't be factored in any argument for him since he did leave.With that being said, Lebron is still a decent ways away before being compared to Jordan... As of right now, I don't think he can be compared to Kobe / Magic / Bird / Russell either in the all time rankings - Personally I'd revisit in 2 seasons from now and 4 or 5 rings.

Eh, Bryant is barely in my top 10. It was tough between him or Hakeem for 10th on my list. The problem with Bryant is that there was only a short period of time where you could say he was the best player in the league (mid 00s), and he couldn't even get out of the first round. People can dog James for his losses in Cleveland, but he was dragging otherwise crappy teams deep into the playoffs year after year. Bryant never did that. And since James is already three MVPs ahead of him and tied with him, to use Ferris' terminology, in alpha rings (two titles as The Man on your team), James gets the nod.

 

[Britney Spears]

Too bad that OKC has never been able to get Durant and Westbrook and help. (Harden) They could really use a third scorer (Harden) to take the pressure off those two or maybe even a guy who could help them off the bench (Harden).

It is just such a shame to waste Durant like this.

They really just need some role players. They have two of the game's elite players and an elite defender. Probably their biggest problem is they're paying Perkins 12M to contribute very little.

ETA: They and the rest of the West need Old Man River Walk to retire.

They really need a coach. But Durant can hardly complain about supporting cast with Westbrook and Ibaka around.

Seriously, this. Jackson & even Adams are very solid. Supporting cast is definitely not a weakness.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Agreed. I think any argument comparing any player to Jordan has to begin with 5 rings.

I sort of agree, but see, I put Bird slightly ahead of Magic even though the latter has more rings. Magic had the benefit of playing in a crappy West for much of the 80s (go look at the teams in the West the Lakers beat in the playoffs from '84-'89), while Bird played in the much tougher East, that had the Bad Boys Pistons, Dr J's 76ers and Jordan's up-and-coming Bulls. And while Parrish was good, he was no Kareem. Had Magic snuck in a ring or two without Kareem, then maybe I'd give him the edge, but he didn't.

 

[DrJ]

Agreed. I think any argument comparing any player to Jordan has to begin with 5 rings.

I sort of agree, but see, I put Bird slightly ahead of Magic even though the latter has more rings. Magic had the benefit of playing in a crappy West for much of the 80s (go look at the teams in the West the Lakers beat in the playoffs from '84-'89), while Bird played in the much tougher East, that had the Bad Boys Pistons, Dr J's 76ers and Jordan's up-and-coming Bulls. And while Parrish was good, he was no Kareem. Had Magic snuck in a ring or two without Kareem, then maybe I'd give him the edge, but he didn't.

He did score 42 that one game when Kareem went down.

 

[DrJ]

And I personally go Magic over Bird because I think he's a more unique talent and a greater mismatch at his position. Measuring this stuff in team accomplishments like titles is kind of silly. I don't get down on Lebron because he didn't win a title in a given year. It's because he looked like a dog while not doing it.

 

[Britney Spears]

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/06/06/birdmans-vengeful-ghost-252517.html?utm_content=buffer9cdaa&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Wow

Good read. People are so weird.

 

[the moops]

Durant at center. hahahaha

 

[SoCalBroncoFan]

The Thunder dynamic is interesting, though. They lost last night cause Westbrook tried to play hero ball in OT and missed tons of shots, but on the flip side, Durant needs to stop being so passive and letting Westbrook dominate the ball like that.

The Thunder lost, in principle, because they don't have a low post scoring threat ( at all) who also operates as a true elite rim defender.

Basic resource management issue, you can only really pay 2 players the max under the current CBA. You can add in one medium level payday player, but a non max and then try to fill the rest with rookies, cost controlled veterans and bargain pickups.

In order to win, you need an elite rim defender, but you also need a couple of elite wings who can score and offer perimeter defense and shooting. As i said in the Lakers thread, it is very very very hard to win with a max Power Forward in the NBA. A starting caliber center in the NBA, someone who can defend the rim or at least as the tool set to do so, and not be a complete stiff offensively, will run you about 11-14 million a year. If you've got a max power forward like Durant, but also a max Stretch 4 who isn't an elite on ball defender, how do you get the rest of the pieces you need and pay for them? Even if they had maxxed on Harden and got the jump in the salary cap, they'd still have to small ball and scrape to fill the pivot. ( Ibaka is not a true center)

The same problems Durant has, it's the same issues for Aldridge and Love, also franchise PFs who have some of the same resource issues on their teams. It's simply more functional to be paying the max to your center and a wing player ( a SF/SG hybrid who can defend) and build around that core.

People forget Kevin Garnett used to be a 7 foot small forward. Making top money, eventually Garnett had to move to PF and eventually to center. Resource management basically dictated it. Durant was about 6'9 when he was drafted, but he's grown since then. He's probably a clean 7 footer now. Hate to say it, but for the Thunder to win, he's going to have to bulk up, learn to operate in the post, and be the center that the Thunder need. As a max Stretch 4, he simply chokes out too much cap to build an effective unit around him. Also he's too good to let OKC ever get a high pick again for a reload on a cheap rookie contract for a blue chip player who can help.

The key for the Thunder is Steven Adams, his development. They also need to hit on a 2nd round or late 1st round effective rotation big to help them.

The last team to win a ring with a max PF was Nowitzski, but this was during a different CBA, where Cuban was way over the tax line and the Mavericks parlayed massive depth and the impending labor war ( a non elite team always wins right before an NBA labor war, good politics by Stern there), it was a very unique situation.

Westbrook could show better shot selection sure, but Durant is going to have to move and change up his game to get the Thunder over the hump.

The Heat are a much more complicated outlier in comparison. They don't have a true center ( though I think Birdman is very underrated with what he does give them) but they have James who can guard literally all 5 positions, and Wade offers incredible length for a SG and Bosh offers elite offensive potential for a small ball center. The skill sets are very unique for them to operate without a true center. The Thunder though can't match that.

You just can't have a max PF, esp a Stretch 4 guy, and contend. The money part of it and the cap part of it will never add up along with the other practical needs you should have to contend.

The clippers have a setup that might allow for it with Blake, CP3 and Deandre. They were close this year. Can't wait for next year. I like the pieces they have assembled.