*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[pollardsvision]

Rick Bonnell reporting Hornets exploring Lance offer. Bonnell's been the one beating the "Hornets aren't interested" drum all off-season. Very conservative and generally doesn't report smoke unless there's fire.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2014/07/hornets-now-considering-signing-lance-stephenson.html

Let's get it done boys. Stephenson for $10 mill. Boozer for $3 mill. Might be the deepest team in the East if that happens.

I'd love to see the Hornets get Lance.That would make the East even more interesting.

Prepare for more interesting.

7.16.2014 The day a 23 YO starting SG for back to back ECF's took less money to come play for the Charlotte ####### Hornets!

 

[Village Idiot]

For the record as a Wolves guy I wouldn't include Wiggins for Love if I was Cleveland. I also wouldn't trade Love without getting Wiggins. If I'm in charge of either team I'm in wait and see what happens mode, and I suspect that's what will happen here. I do think the Warriors are silly for not including Thompson, although I don't know all the particulars behind the scenes. Maybe Flip is holding out for too much to go along with Thompson. That's what I'm guessing on the GSW front.

I think Saunders wants a franchise type player in return because at some point you have to try to reverse the trend where franchise type or franchise potential type players want out of Minnesota to give you some hope of building a title winner.

If I'm Minnesota I don't do a trade unless I get one of those types back.

You wait as long as possible and take what you can get if you can't convince Love to stay.

And you don't take back just junk that will hurt your cap too badly.

So wait until the trade deadline then get picks rather than mediocre can't be part of a title team build parts.

I'd love to see Love in Cleveland without giving up Wiggins but I don't think that will happen.

 

[Freelove]

Rick Bonnell reporting Hornets exploring Lance offer. Bonnell's been the one beating the "Hornets aren't interested" drum all off-season. Very conservative and generally doesn't report smoke unless there's fire.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2014/07/hornets-now-considering-signing-lance-stephenson.html

Let's get it done boys. Stephenson for $10 mill. Boozer for $3 mill. Might be the deepest team in the East if that happens.

I'd love to see the Hornets get Lance.That would make the East even more interesting.

Prepare for more interesting.

7.16.2014 The day a 23 YO starting SG for back to back ECF's took less money to come play for the Charlotte ####### Hornets!

Absolutely the best they could have hoped for. Not only get a talented player at a bargain, but get one who tied himself to a major contractual incentive to keep his head on straight and play with max effort as often as possible.

All they ever really needed was their name back. Everything's coming up Hornets.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Scratch that, Lance's getting 3/27 with a team option on the 3rd..

I don't care how much anybody hates Lance, that's a fantastic contract for the team.

Either there's something funky going on here, like IND not still offering their original contract (didn't they make some moves after offering it?), but on the surface he just straight up picked CHA over IND and is making a bet on himself that he's got a huge payday coming in 3 years.

Great deal

 

[NutterButter]

I do not understand the logic behind the Cavs not giving up Wiggins right now for Love if that is available. The Cavs lucked into that #1 pick, it's like getting Love for free. I wouldn't want to risk Love choosing to go back to his home state of California by being selfish about a piece that was gifted to you in the 1st place.

Cliff what's your thought on this?

Not sure why how they got the pick matters but... If I'm running the Cavs, I give up Irving and Bennett to try and get a couple nice pieces. If Irving gets Love, then move Bennett for a center and Waiters for a quality 3&D guy.

Who's playing point again?

Lebron just went to the finals four times with Rio at point.

Doesn't mean he wants to continue being the primary ball handler b/c his point guard stinks. It would be even worse in Cleveland b/c Wiggins isn't a particularly good ball handler.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I do not understand the logic behind the Cavs not giving up Wiggins right now for Love if that is available. The Cavs lucked into that #1 pick, it's like getting Love for free. I wouldn't want to risk Love choosing to go back to his home state of California by being selfish about a piece that was gifted to you in the 1st place.

Cliff what's your thought on this?

Not sure why how they got the pick matters but... If I'm running the Cavs, I give up Irving and Bennett to try and get a couple nice pieces. If Irving gets Love, then move Bennett for a center and Waiters for a quality 3&D guy.

Who's playing point again?

Rio

Didnt think that through long enough. Really dont need a 3d guy when keeping Wiggins. Maybe send Irving to the Sun for something like Dragic, Plumlee and Green. Then use Bennet for a big like Robin Lopez. Dragic, Wiggins, LeBron, Thompson and Lopez is a quality 5. Bring Waiters, AV, Plumlee and Green off the bench with Miller and Allen.

No idea is the Suns or Blazers go for that but it is a better lineup than standing pat or just adding Love IMO. Keeps the Cavs young and cap flexibility going forward.

Kyrie isn't going anywhere for any reason. He just turned 22 and is an absolute beast offensively. He may never be a good defender, but I would be surprised if he didn't become a passable defender in the next couple years.

That "beast offensively" was worse than Dragic across the board last year.

I know that they would never trade him but it would be the right move imo. You get the same production (or better) from the point and a couple other upgrades.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You're insane. Trading a PG with the best handles in the NBA, who at age 22 has already won the All Star MVP is beyond silly.

What was I thinking. He was great in a single exhibition game. Lock'em up! Have you seen his Uncle Drew videos? No one dominates like that. Guy is insane!

 

[Abraham]

 

[Worm]

Buzz City!!!

Now let's work this Boozer deal.

 

[NutterButter]

I do not understand the logic behind the Cavs not giving up Wiggins right now for Love if that is available. The Cavs lucked into that #1 pick, it's like getting Love for free. I wouldn't want to risk Love choosing to go back to his home state of California by being selfish about a piece that was gifted to you in the 1st place.

Cliff what's your thought on this?

Not sure why how they got the pick matters but... If I'm running the Cavs, I give up Irving and Bennett to try and get a couple nice pieces. If Irving gets Love, then move Bennett for a center and Waiters for a quality 3&D guy.

Who's playing point again?

Rio

Didnt think that through long enough. Really dont need a 3d guy when keeping Wiggins. Maybe send Irving to the Sun for something like Dragic, Plumlee and Green. Then use Bennet for a big like Robin Lopez. Dragic, Wiggins, LeBron, Thompson and Lopez is a quality 5. Bring Waiters, AV, Plumlee and Green off the bench with Miller and Allen.

No idea is the Suns or Blazers go for that but it is a better lineup than standing pat or just adding Love IMO. Keeps the Cavs young and cap flexibility going forward.

Kyrie isn't going anywhere for any reason. He just turned 22 and is an absolute beast offensively. He may never be a good defender, but I would be surprised if he didn't become a passable defender in the next couple years.

That "beast offensively" was worse than Dragic across the board last year.

I know that they would never trade him but it would be the right move imo. You get the same production (or better) from the point and a couple other upgrades.

Let's see how he does when you put some talent around him. The best guy he had with him makes Wade look like a spring chicken.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Let's see how he does when you put some talent around him. The best guy he had with him makes Wade look like a spring chicken.

After not improving on pretty much anything since he's come into the league, I should hope being around LeBron has a positive effect. I won't argue that he has been surrounded by scrubs.

 

[Kev4029]

I do not understand the logic behind the Cavs not giving up Wiggins right now for Love if that is available. The Cavs lucked into that #1 pick, it's like getting Love for free. I wouldn't want to risk Love choosing to go back to his home state of California by being selfish about a piece that was gifted to you in the 1st place.

Cliff what's your thought on this?

Not sure why how they got the pick matters but... If I'm running the Cavs, I give up Irving and Bennett to try and get a couple nice pieces. If Irving gets Love, then move Bennett for a center and Waiters for a quality 3&D guy.

Who's playing point again?

Rio

Didnt think that through long enough. Really dont need a 3d guy when keeping Wiggins. Maybe send Irving to the Sun for something like Dragic, Plumlee and Green. Then use Bennet for a big like Robin Lopez. Dragic, Wiggins, LeBron, Thompson and Lopez is a quality 5. Bring Waiters, AV, Plumlee and Green off the bench with Miller and Allen.

No idea is the Suns or Blazers go for that but it is a better lineup than standing pat or just adding Love IMO. Keeps the Cavs young and cap flexibility going forward.

Kyrie isn't going anywhere for any reason. He just turned 22 and is an absolute beast offensively. He may never be a good defender, but I would be surprised if he didn't become a passable defender in the next couple years.

That "beast offensively" was worse than Dragic across the board last year.

I know that they would never trade him but it would be the right move imo. You get the same production (or better) from the point and a couple other upgrades.

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

 

[Slapdash]

What a steal of a deal for Charlotte there.

 

[Premier]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

 

[NutterButter]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

I'm not sure why you'd trade away a proven commodity in Irving vs an unproven one in Wiggins

 

[wadegarrett]

Btw it was an outright anomoly Mike Miller played in 70 plus games last year. Because every year of his Heat tenure this guy looked like he could not walk.

I have a feeling The Cavs get that Mike Miller. His back is held together by scotch tape. Lebron was supposedly a little upset about Micky not paying 17MM for a 20 minute a game guy who literally did not play much for us. And the Heat still paid 13 plus in tax last season.

Good thing Cavs are only paying him $2.75m/yr then.

I do not understand the logic behind the Cavs not giving up Wiggins right now for Love if that is available.

No need to rush into a trade right now.

The wolves fans in here and their Love trade proposals are some of the most delusional posts I've seen yet in this thread.

Did Datonn give all of you guys some of the crack he's using?

The delusional posts by cav fans thinking their: 1 going to trade for Love without giving up Wiggins, not going to happen, 2. to think they can win a championship without the leadership and talent of Love. The T wolves will trade Love, and no the Cavs will not get him next year in free agency, as any trade will include an extension for Love. The cavs could be a very special team with Love, without him just a good team

Vegas has Cavs favorites to win the '15 NBA title right now. I guess they're delusional too then.

(Don't put them as favorites myself, but think they're certainly in the conversation.)

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

I'm not sure why you'd trade away a proven commodity in Irving vs an unproven one in Wiggins

Because I think Irving is extremely overvalued at a very deep position in the league.

 

[cheese]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

I don't know, but Kemba-Lance-MKG-Jefferson seems to be the core. They drafted Vonleh and Hairston in the draft. Cody Zeller probably gets minutes at 4 now.

 

[wadegarrett]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

I'm not sure why you'd trade away a proven commodity in Irving vs an unproven one in Wiggins

Because I think Irving is extremely overvalued at a very deep position in the league.

One of the criticism's I always heard about the Cavs during LeBron's first stint was that they never had anyone who could handle the ball and create his own shot. Irving satisfies both of those criteria very well. With LeBron, he and the others only get better.

And just b/c LeBron never had a great PG before doesn't mean it can't work now and going forward. No way I trade Kyrie.

 

[Gadzooks]

The wolves fans in here and their Love trade proposals are some of the most delusional posts I've seen yet in this thread.

Did Datonn give all of you guys some of the crack he's using?

It's what Saunders is asking for. It's what we're hoping they'll get. How is that so delusional?

So there is a feeling by some in Boston that Minnesota will refuse to deal with Boston because the KG deal ended up being so one-sided they don't want to send another all-star to Boston. I can't believe that would actually be true, any Minnesota-ians feel that way?

Celts don't have a young stud to give up but I'm willing to put a gun to Ainge's head and make him offer you all of our number 1 picks for the next 50 years and take back all your bad contracts for Love. If it helps you can have David Ortiz back too. What do you say? Do we have a deal?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

One of the criticism's I always heard about the Cavs during LeBron's first stint was that they never had anyone who could handle the ball and create his own shot. Irving satisfies both of those criteria very well. With LeBron, he and the others only get better.

And just b/c LeBron never had a great PG before doesn't mean it can't work now and going forward. No way I trade Kyrie.

For sure. The PGs during LeBron's first tenure with the Cavs were horrific. If you tried, I don't think you could get a worse collection of scrubs. Switching Irving for someone like Dragic still gives them an excellent ball handler who can create his own shot. It also gives them a better outside shooter and would let them add additional players.

 

[pollardsvision]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

Hard to say yet, and the Boozer signing still has a decent shot of happening.

Top 7 would seem fairly clear in that case: Kemba/Lance/MKG/Marvin/Al/Boozer/Henderson

(I'd bring Boozer off the bench, but either way try to keep he and Al from playing together for long stretches)

After that, it's a matter of which of the kids are ready to step in and contribute between PJ/Vonleh/Zeller/Biz. A week ago, it looked like CHA would have to depend on contributions from them in order to contend, but it's getting closer to anything from them being a bonus and letting them develop if they aren't ready.

Neal and Roberts will get some G minutes, but I suspect Neal could be dealt ($3 mill expiring).

 

[Kev4029]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

I'm not sure why you'd trade away a proven commodity in Irving vs an unproven one in Wiggins

Because I think Irving is extremely overvalued at a very deep position in the league.

So you would trade him for an older player at the same position who, at best, is his equal?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Do you really think that Dragic is going to be more productive going forward than Irving? Kyrie is 6 years younger and has a track record of playing very well, Dragic was incredible last year but his whole season was an outlier.

Take Dragic's 12/13 season and he was still equal or better than Irving from last year.

I don't know how Irving will perform going forward. He seems to have gotten worse every season so far. The only thing he's improved since his rookie season is his turnovers but that has come with decreased passing. He made it all the way up to 31st in PG AST/TO ratio this year. His best yet!

I'm not sure why you'd trade away a proven commodity in Irving vs an unproven one in Wiggins

Because I think Irving is extremely overvalued at a very deep position in the league.

So you would trade him for an older player at the same position who, at best, is his equal?

If I could get other players in the deal that would help out the team? Yes. Straight up? Probably not but that would depend on contracts/cap/future etc.

 

[thecatch]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

I don't know, but Kemba-Lance-MKG-Jefferson seems to be the core. They drafted Vonleh and Hairston in the draft. Cody Zeller probably gets minutes at 4 now.

I'm taking November 1st as the over/under for the first fight in practice between Nick Young 2.0 (Hairston) and Lance.

I'm not sure if this team is going to be any good or a trainwreck but I'll be tuning in to find out either way.

 

[rodg12]

Damn. Wish the Lakers would have signed Stephenson for that. Great get for the Hornets.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Last year, at age 27, his 6th season in the league, Dragic finally put up a PER equalling Irving's PER as a 19 yr old rookie in Cleveland.

Maybe Cliff really is the Raptors GM.

 

[pollardsvision]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

I don't know, but Kemba-Lance-MKG-Jefferson seems to be the core. They drafted Vonleh and Hairston in the draft. Cody Zeller probably gets minutes at 4 now.

I'm taking November 1st as the over/under for the first fight in practice between Nick Young 2.0 (Hairston) and Lance.

I'm not sure if this team is going to be any good or a trainwreck but I'll be tuning in to find out either way.

Jordan might be banking on "mutually assured destruction" keeping both guys in check (at least with each other. that won't help poor Zeller)

 

[thecatch]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

I don't know, but Kemba-Lance-MKG-Jefferson seems to be the core. They drafted Vonleh and Hairston in the draft. Cody Zeller probably gets minutes at 4 now.

I'm taking November 1st as the over/under for the first fight in practice between Nick Young 2.0 (Hairston) and Lance.I'm not sure if this team is going to be any good or a trainwreck but I'll be tuning in to find out either way.

Jordan might be banking on "mutually assured destruction" keeping both guys in check (at least with each other. that won't help poor Zeller)

If Lance was president during the Cold War, we'd all be dead.

 

[pollardsvision]

I'll never say another bad word about Morey...

NBA Flash News @NBAFLASHNEWS · 1h

Lance Stephenson would've joined the Dallas Mavericks on a 2-year, $20M deal if the Houston Rockets kept Chandler Parsons. (Via ESPN)

 

[Juxtatarot]

It's hard to predict what Pacers team we'll see this year. Will their chemistry improve without Lance or is their window of opportunity closing?

 

[pollardsvision]

A little taste. Lance and Kemba getting down at Gersh Park (Brooklyn).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuTN-Sea19M

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It's hard to predict what Pacers team we'll see this year. Will their chemistry improve without Lance or is their window of opportunity closing?

I don't think it would be that surprising to see them miss the playoffs. Ceiling is a 5 seed, floor is 9/10 IMO. If George goes down for any amount of time, they're screwed.

 

[Slapdash]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

Hard to say yet, and the Boozer signing still has a decent shot of happening.

Top 7 would seem fairly clear in that case: Kemba/Lance/MKG/Marvin/Al/Boozer/Henderson

(I'd bring Boozer off the bench, but either way try to keep he and Al from playing together for long stretches)

After that, it's a matter of which of the kids are ready to step in and contribute between PJ/Vonleh/Zeller/Biz. A week ago, it looked like CHA would have to depend on contributions from them in order to contend, but it's getting closer to anything from them being a bonus and letting them develop if they aren't ready.

Neal and Roberts will get some G minutes, but I suspect Neal could be dealt ($3 mill expiring).

Starters are probably: Kemba, Lance, MKG, Marvin, and Al at this time. Zeller, Henderson, and Douglas-Roberts would be the impact subs. After that is a big drop-off... Bismack and Roberts will be serviceable at C and PG, but not exciting. Can't see Vonleh or PJ getting big minutes. Would be surprised if Neal is on the team after the All-Star break.

 

[Frostillicus]

The wolves fans in here and their Love trade proposals are some of the most delusional posts I've seen yet in this thread.

Did Datonn give all of you guys some of the crack he's using?

It's what Saunders is asking for. It's what we're hoping they'll get. How is that so delusional?

So there is a feeling by some in Boston that Minnesota will refuse to deal with Boston because the KG deal ended up being so one-sided they don't want to send another all-star to Boston. I can't believe that would actually be true, any Minnesota-ians feel that way?

Celts don't have a young stud to give up but I'm willing to put a gun to Ainge's head and make him offer you all of our number 1 picks for the next 50 years and take back all your bad contracts for Love. If it helps you can have David Ortiz back too. What do you say? Do we have a deal?

I don't think that's at all possible, would be insanely stupid and no matter what you think of Saunders I don't think he hits "insanely stupid."

Boston could end up with Love for a bunch of picks, but it won't happen until the trade deadline if that looks like the best deal and either Love says he'll sign in Boston or the Celtics are willing to gamble on him deciding to stick there without a guarantee.

 

[Todem]

Wait why did Wade opt out?

LeBron wasn't kind enough to let him know beforehand that he was leaving...which is somehow lost in the feel good story of going home.

Sure starting to seem that way.

There is no seem. The moves that the Heat made in acting like a capped team tell you unequivocally that they didn't know.

The only thing that has me thinking in hindsight is Pat's press conference. That epic press conference when he publicly challenged Lebron to have the guts to come back.

He must of had a strong feeling something was not right and the fact (it has been reported now) Lebron denied Pat an exit interview (he has one with every player before they go on vacation) was not good.

He started with "I'm pissed" and everyone needs to a "get a grip". He was not happy about losing and was obviously really upset Lebron stone walled him on the end of the season exit interviews. As time goes on more information will emerge I am sure.

As far as Wade and Lebron's relationship. It goes deeper than basketball. These guys are extremely close friends. Mike Wallace who covers the Heat for ESPN.com talked about during Wade's bitter divorce and custody battle he would put Lebron on the phone to talk with his boys. These guys are brothers. But business is business. Now that it is all over, I am sure when Wade got on that plane he already knew it was over and I am sure he tried to talk Lebron out of it one more time. I venture to guess they will remain very close friends far beyond after their respective playing days are over. They made some NBA history together and will have that bond.

I think Bosh, Wade and Udonis did exactly what I always knew they would. Opt out and give the team the best shot at retaining Lebron for a couple of more seasons.

I truly believe in this order the factors for Lebron leaving were:

1. Home (duh) - The guy loves Akron Ohio. His wife loves Akron Ohio. We don't know what is going on behind the curtains here. But he was always going to go back to Cleveland. It was a matter of when not if. Mounting pressure from his family, raising his kids in Akron. I get it. I am a father/family man too. You can't fight family.

2. Power and PR - Lebron did not have the absolute power he had in Cleveland. No all access pass for his mom. His posse was not allowed to travel on the team plane, nor sit behind the Heat's bench. He was not consulted on some moves. This is Pat Riley's show. He is the president of The Miami Heat. And while you want to do everything you can to retain the greatest player in the world. Riley has his way. The Heat way which I have spoken about. I can pretty much assure you Teh Spurs have their set of rules as well. Certain teams have certain rules. Period. I don't think this was the primary reason he left, but over 4 years it probably started to wear on him as he is the best and probably feels he should get whatever he wants. This was a perfect opportunity to pivot. Cleveland's cap space, landing yet another #1 overall pick and special talent in the making like Wiggins. The only place he could have gone and not be subject to more public scrutiny and look like a mercenary was home. Otherwise his legacy, his brand will be trademarked as a ring chaser. And that is exactly what he did when he came to Miami. Mission accomplished. He has 2 now and is a 2 time NBA champion. But he is still chasing greatness but now he will just resign himself to chase it at home. His letter was carefully constructed. "It is very hard to win titles", "I know we are not ready no way" "If I can bring one to Cleveland" This was his chance to fix his brand and his image. Yet I felt if he stayed in Miami it was already repaired. The guy has played incredible basketball over the last 4 years and won 2 titles. he had a good shot at some more right here despite some opinions saying no. I think he has a greater challenge these next two years in Cleveland. But that is wide open for debate.

3. Team around him - Yep. The Heat are longer in the tooth. No doubt Wade is in the twilight. No question Bosh in a few years will be hitting his as well. But this team still would have been making runs for a couple of more seasons. Would have it been hard? Of course. Would Lebron carry even more weight going forward? No doubt. But I watched Magic Johnson do the same thing. I watched Stockton and Malone do this their entire career. I also saw Jordan do plenty of heavy lifting in his incredible career. The new CBA helped put the kabosh on big threes going forward. Funny how that works. So unless three guys are willing to play for well below market (Spurs anyone?)...it will be a thing of the past. Riley though is a gifted GM in being able to put role players around his stars. It is the exact same thing Cleveland is going to try and do. If they manage to get Love...they have to pay him too. So what will happen in a few years if these young players really fulfill their true potential? They will not be able to pay them their market value. So I am very interested to see that play out. For the next season or 2 I think it is highly debatable if Lebron has rings with Kyrie and Wiggins vs Bosh and Wade. Now add Love then I can't debate that. That is a nice big three with Lebron, Love and Kyrie. Then it comes down to the roles players and the coaching. 3 guys can't do it alone. Despite what many think. The Heats success was more than the big three. It was a collective team effort. Of course Lebron was the work horse. But you need a village to go to 4 straight.

I still maintain Lebron's best shot at getting that 3rd and maybe even 4th ring right now was to stay put here for 2 more years and give it a go with guys he knows have done it, proven they can do it, and play championship like defense which is critical to really making it happen. A system that was proven and built around him. The next two years will either prove this true or false. But it totally seems Lebron (and his PR machine) have pivoted. It's not about ring's (plural) anymore. He has 2. It's about one for Cleveland. How can you be that bitter about that Heat fans? It is a heck of a narrative. A story that will be followed now for the rest of his career. So either he will be a hero forever in Cleveland by bringing home one Larry O'Brian trophy, or he will be known as the guy who left Cleveland and won two titles in Miami but was unable to bring one to his hometown. Lebron now has a new kind of pressure. For years one and two I think he get's a pass but as the years go on and if no title comes home to Cleveland....it will be interesting to see how the narrative changes. If I were a betting man I would bet on Lebron. But betting on that ownership group is hard. They have a proven track record of failure. Odds are he should be able to bring one home. He has some very nice young talent that can still develop quicker with his tutelage and most importantly...he is Lebron James.

Losing Lebron is a massive blow and for most teams a death blow (Cleveland 2010) but Riley has scrambled, kept 2/3 of his big three and added some good complimentary pieces. But two things still are going to be a huge challenge.

1. Rebounding

2. Point guard play

Same as the last 4 years. Problem is Lebron is gone and he masked that so well. So Bosh needs to step up and grab 10-12 again. He needs to take a couple of steps more to the inside again and be more of a power forward again. I am sure he will respond to the challenge. And of course Dwayne Wade finding some sort of a mini fountain of youth. You won't see him sitting 28 games again (unless he is hurt people seem to think it was because he was hurt). We don't have that luxury anymore (Lebron). 70 games easy (barring any set backs or injuries). An intense off-season for him to lose some weight, trim up, and re-charge the battery. I have confidence in Wade's drive and heart to play this upcoming season with a chip on his shoulder. He is a gamer and a winner. Also he is a full 1.5 years removed from his knee procedure which has helped him a ton. He looked better last year (up until the last 3 games of Finals and the greatness of The Spurs had a little something to do with that) than he has his last 2 seasons. His demise is being greatly exaggerated and I think it will drive him to quiet the doubters this upcoming season.

Maybe a late signing of Jameer Nelson happens and we get a veteran ball handler in here. He can also hit the three. That would take a ton of pressure off Napier having to play now. Shabazz is a decent piece to develop for the future.

If the Heat manage 45 wins I will be thrilled. The goal is to get into the post season and our personal championship would be to face Lebron and the Cav's and knock them out. That would be fun. That is what sports is all about. Great story lines.

GO HEAT!!!!!

 

[pollardsvision]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

Hard to say yet, and the Boozer signing still has a decent shot of happening.

Top 7 would seem fairly clear in that case: Kemba/Lance/MKG/Marvin/Al/Boozer/Henderson

(I'd bring Boozer off the bench, but either way try to keep he and Al from playing together for long stretches)

After that, it's a matter of which of the kids are ready to step in and contribute between PJ/Vonleh/Zeller/Biz. A week ago, it looked like CHA would have to depend on contributions from them in order to contend, but it's getting closer to anything from them being a bonus and letting them develop if they aren't ready.

Neal and Roberts will get some G minutes, but I suspect Neal could be dealt ($3 mill expiring).

Starters are probably: Kemba, Lance, MKG, Marvin, and Al at this time. Zeller, Henderson, and Douglas-Roberts would be the impact subs. After that is a big drop-off... Bismack and Roberts will be serviceable at C and PG, but not exciting. Can't see Vonleh or PJ getting big minutes. Would be surprised if Neal is on the team after the All-Star break.

I could see that. It's just so hard to have any idea what they could get out of Zeller/Vonleh/PJ.

I think PJ gets steady minutes unless he's just an idiot. He's got one skill they need.

I didn't see the 3rd SL game, but apparently it was the same skinny, hesitant Zeller. I think Ewing called him out. If he doesn't make a huge step forward, he doesn't serve much purpose and it wouldn't take much for Vonleh, even as a fairly major project, to be more effective this year than Zeller.

 

[Worm]

If I understand the amnesty clause correctly, we should hear something within 48 hours of Boozer's release, so by Friday night ish.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

K. Love is 25. He has a whole career ahead of him. He can blow out his ACL and still demand a max contract next off-season. He has all the leverage. Minn has no leverage whatsoever.

If he's not willing to sign with GSW then their is no trade to be had. If he wants to go to Cleveland that's where he will go if he is patient.

Cleveland has future picks and a lot of young assets that can easily be moved to clear cap space.

That said Minn can probably get the same package right now as they could next offseason from Cleveland if they are willing to risk Love just walking. If Love is set on Cleveland I expect Minn to stay the course but when they are out of it come midseason to give in. It may even make sense to see how Waiters, Thompson and Bennett evolve this season.

K. Love in a great spot. He can be coming into his age 26 season teamed with Lebron if he is just patient.

:whoosh: Do you know what you are talking about? All of the Wolves faithful that studiously watches every exciting Timberwolves game the past few years tells us that Trader Flip is the one holding all the cards here.

Bring Wiggins/Klay or get laughed at by Flips' GM acumen.

Let me clarify my "studious" position then.

I think Flip is playing this well for the time being by insisting on a package including a young player that can play now instead of just picks and borderline role players. There are teams that are interested and he has to hope they try to outbid one another for the best PF in the game.

If no one meets his needs before the season then he is fine with going into the season with Love rather than HAVING TO take whatever Cleveland deems is enough as some has said. Neither side holds all of the cards, IMO. Its a great big game of chicken. But to quit the game early and just take whatever you can now is silly.

There are three timelines here: 1) Before the season 2) The trade deadline 3) After the season in a sign and trade. The deals I'm seeing people say the Wolves should take would be more in a #3 scenario. And frankly, there are much better offers rumored out there. If there is no trade, remember teams have more cap constraints - Cleveland probably wouldn't get Love in a FA situation.

Right now the best deals rumored/offered and my ranking are:

1. Warriors - They remain insistant that they won't move Klay, but they will move D. Lee, Barnes and a Future 1st. I'm not overwhelmed by this offer, but Lee is a solid (All-Star!!, lol) player. The Black Falcon is still just 22, but he doesn't blow me away by any means. The pick would likely be their 2015 first -- would be a late first rounder obviously. So basically, a solid 4 in Lee, and a couple of crap-shoots.

2a. Celtics - These guys have a ton of picks: 2015/6/7 Celts 1sts, 2015 Clips 1st, 2016/18 Nets 1sts and a pile of 2nds. They would also get Olynyk, which I have some interest in...we like white stiffs here. They probably have to include Bass as well to make it work -- Wolves would probably prefer J. Green. This one comes down to how many picks are being thrown at you. The Nets picks being the most coveted I guess. Something like Olynyk/Bass and the 3 firsts (Clips and Nets)? This one has never had a lot of concrete details other than Sully or Olynyk and picks, so it's a lot of conjecture.

The Celtics would take a big jump with Love on the roster. Rondo, Bradley, Green, Love, Sullinger with Smart, Young, Thornton, Zeller off the bench sounds exciting.

2b. Suns - The Suns have a protected Wolves pick that goes as follows:

Spoiler

Minnesota's 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-12 in 2015 or 1-12 in 2016; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2016, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2016 2nd round pick and 2017 2nd round pick to Phoenix

Odds are this ends up being the two 2nd rounders...especially if Love goes during the year. They also have a Lakers 1st that has the following rules

Spoiler

L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-5 in 2015, 1-3 in 2016 or 1-3 in 2017 or unprotected in 2018

. That carries some value. A deal would center around either Bledsoe or Dragic (or even recently signed Isaiah Thomas I guess); most likely Bledsoe and maybe a couple of 1st rd picks. They also have other stuff like Len and a Plumlee and lots of Morrises, some of which could be used in lieu of a pick I guess.

4. Cleveland - Finally we have Cleveland which according to what most here are saying would offer some combo of Bennett/Thompson/Waiters and possibly a 1st. The protected Heat pick would be a better one to have than a CLE one after this deal.

The Cavaliers' reported first offer to Minnesota: Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett, and a first-round pick for Love. Haha, nah. -Samer Kalaf

5. Rockets mystery deal? - Sounds like they're after Rondo or Love, but I'm not sure what they'd offer...T. Jones and?

Obviously this is a ton of guess work on my part, and rumors are just rumors. But if it was the trade deadline and these are the deals on the table, I think I do the GSW one.

I'm going to miss Love, but watching this play out is entertaining. I actually would like him to join Lebron and win some titles even though he's kind of quitting on MN. Its hard to blame him.

 

[Abraham]

5. Rockets mystery deal? - Sounds like they're after Rondo or Love, but I'm not sure what they'd offer...T. Jones and?

The Peli's pick. Foreign players. Jones. Donuts. Beverly.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

5. Rockets mystery deal? - Sounds like they're after Rondo or Love, but I'm not sure what they'd offer...T. Jones and?

The Peli's pick. Foreign players. Jones. Donuts. Beverly.

You had me at Donuts. Sounds somewhat interesting.

 

[Slapdash]

Charlotte might be able to win the southeast next year. What's their 8-deep look like?

Hard to say yet, and the Boozer signing still has a decent shot of happening.

Top 7 would seem fairly clear in that case: Kemba/Lance/MKG/Marvin/Al/Boozer/Henderson

(I'd bring Boozer off the bench, but either way try to keep he and Al from playing together for long stretches)

After that, it's a matter of which of the kids are ready to step in and contribute between PJ/Vonleh/Zeller/Biz. A week ago, it looked like CHA would have to depend on contributions from them in order to contend, but it's getting closer to anything from them being a bonus and letting them develop if they aren't ready.

Neal and Roberts will get some G minutes, but I suspect Neal could be dealt ($3 mill expiring).

Starters are probably: Kemba, Lance, MKG, Marvin, and Al at this time. Zeller, Henderson, and Douglas-Roberts would be the impact subs. After that is a big drop-off... Bismack and Roberts will be serviceable at C and PG, but not exciting. Can't see Vonleh or PJ getting big minutes. Would be surprised if Neal is on the team after the All-Star break.

I could see that. It's just so hard to have any idea what they could get out of Zeller/Vonleh/PJ.

I think PJ gets steady minutes unless he's just an idiot. He's got one skill they need.

I didn't see the 3rd SL game, but apparently it was the same skinny, hesitant Zeller. I think Ewing called him out. If he doesn't make a huge step forward, he doesn't serve much purpose and it wouldn't take much for Vonleh, even as a fairly major project, to be more effective this year than Zeller.

Yeah, saw the stuff on Zeller in the Observer. Pretty weird since he lit Summer League up last year. He really needs to put on some weight.

 

[biggamer3]

Wow, really love what Charlotte has been doing since they hired that new GM. Everyone laughed at them for signing Big Al, people were saying, he's not making them a championship contender, why not keep sucking for 2014 draft class? They had a year where they finally started winning, now other players are starting to sign there as FA's and they can easily be a top 4 seed in the weakened eastern conference.

 

[biggamer3]

What I don't understand is this belief that the Cavs HAVE to deal Wiggins to get Love. That is ridiculous, no team ever traded such a highly regarded asset for an expiring superstar. If the Cavs didn't get top pick then the T Wolves wouldn't have entertained an offer of Waiters, Bennet, and multiple picks? Maybe even add Tristan in there. Of course they would have.

If Bennet shows his real potential this year and Waiters is playing well with Lebron, T Wolves would be hard pressed to find a better offer than that package. I am also on the Klay is overrated bandwagon BTW.

Pacers are the suck, they cheapened out of paying Lance a few million more than they wanted to and now will be worse than they were a year ago. Having a cheap owner is the worst thing in sports.

 

[Abraham]

I think the Wolves will ultimately choose a package that features picks more than players.

 

[mcintyre1]

What I don't understand is this belief that the Cavs HAVE to deal Wiggins to get Love. That is ridiculous, no team ever traded such a highly regarded asset for an expiring superstar. If the Cavs didn't get top pick then the T Wolves wouldn't have entertained an offer of Waiters, Bennet, and multiple picks? Maybe even add Tristan in there. Of course they would have.

If Bennet shows his real potential this year and Waiters is playing well with Lebron, T Wolves would be hard pressed to find a better offer than that package. I am also on the Klay is overrated bandwagon BTW.

Pacers are the suck, they cheapened out of paying Lance a few million more than they wanted to and now will be worse than they were a year ago. Having a cheap owner is the worst thing in sports.

Nope.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

What I don't understand is this belief that the Cavs HAVE to deal Wiggins to get Love. That is ridiculous, no team ever traded such a highly regarded asset for an expiring superstar. If the Cavs didn't get top pick then the T Wolves wouldn't have entertained an offer of Waiters, Bennet, and multiple picks? Maybe even add Tristan in there. Of course they would have.

If Bennet shows his real potential this year and Waiters is playing well with Lebron, T Wolves would be hard pressed to find a better offer than that package. I am also on the Klay is overrated bandwagon BTW.

Pacers are the suck, they cheapened out of paying Lance a few million more than they wanted to and now will be worse than they were a year ago. Having a cheap owner is the worst thing in sports.

Nope.

There will be/are better offers than this. So what then?

 

[biggamer3]

What I don't understand is this belief that the Cavs HAVE to deal Wiggins to get Love. That is ridiculous, no team ever traded such a highly regarded asset for an expiring superstar. If the Cavs didn't get top pick then the T Wolves wouldn't have entertained an offer of Waiters, Bennet, and multiple picks? Maybe even add Tristan in there. Of course they would have.

If Bennet shows his real potential this year and Waiters is playing well with Lebron, T Wolves would be hard pressed to find a better offer than that package. I am also on the Klay is overrated bandwagon BTW.

Pacers are the suck, they cheapened out of paying Lance a few million more than they wanted to and now will be worse than they were a year ago. Having a cheap owner is the worst thing in sports.

Nope.

Then you're delusional. Who do you realistically think your team can get? Let's put Klay aside, what else is there to get?

Only thing I can think of is Bledsoe and one of Morris twins, but even that is not as good as getting a Waiters, Bennet, Tristan, Picks offer.

 

[thecatch]

no team ever traded such a highly regarded asset for an expiring superstar.

This is an interesting question that I actually gave some thought to yesterday. What's the most valuable (as judged at the time of the trade, not ex post) piece a team had ever received in return for a departing star?

Al Jefferson was a highly thought of piece when the KG trade went down. Lamar Odom was a very good player who came back in the Shaq trade. I don't think either of those guys measured up to Wiggins as a trade chip, but they were probably more valued than Klay. Jeff Green (# 5 pick) is another one for Ray Allen.