*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Gadzooks]

Scott Souza @scott_souza 1 minute ago

And, before you ask, no Evan Turner does not help you get Kevin Love either.

LIES!

 

[Spartans Rule]

How does Bosh in his last year at Tor compare to Love today? They seem to have similar stats. What happens to Love if he joins Lebron in Cle? Bosh gets bashed today because he's not seen as a superstar but back in 2010 wasn't he on par with how Love is viewed today as a top 10 player?

Bosh was 24/11 and 25 years old.

Love was 26/12 and 25 years old (last year).

Bosh is definitely underrated by a lot of people. His defense is very good. Offensively he had to change his game a bit to fit with LeBron and Wade, meaning less post-up play and more shots away from the basket. With LeBron gone, we may see more of his post game this year.

Love would fit better with LeBron offensively because he's already a great outside shooter. He wouldn't do 26-12 again in Cleveland just because there's only one ball to go around, but he'd be super efficient. Defensively he's obviously not as good as Bosh.

I'd lean towards Bosh being the better all-around player, but I'd like to see if he can re-establish himself as a go-to guy this season.

 

[fantasycurse42]

How does Bosh in his last year at Tor compare to Love today? They seem to have similar stats. What happens to Love if he joins Lebron in Cle? Bosh gets bashed today because he's not seen as a superstar but back in 2010 wasn't he on par with how Love is viewed today as a top 10 player?

Bosh was 24/11 and 25 years old.

Love was 26/12 and 25 years old (last year).

I'd place a friendly wager with someone that his boards go up and points go down if he lands in Cleveland.

 

[Kev4029]

How does Bosh in his last year at Tor compare to Love today? They seem to have similar stats. What happens to Love if he joins Lebron in Cle? Bosh gets bashed today because he's not seen as a superstar but back in 2010 wasn't he on par with how Love is viewed today as a top 10 player?

Bosh was 24/11 and 25 years old.

Love was 26/12 and 25 years old (last year).

Bosh is definitely underrated by a lot of people. His defense is very good. Offensively he had to change his game a bit to fit with LeBron and Wade, meaning less post-up play and more shots away from the basket. With LeBron gone, we may see more of his post game this year.

Love would fit better with LeBron offensively because he's already a great outside shooter. He wouldn't do 26-12 again in Cleveland just because there's only one ball to go around, but he'd be super efficient. Defensively he's obviously not as good as Bosh.

I'd lean towards Bosh being the better all-around player, but I'd like to see if he can re-establish himself as a go-to guy this season.

25 year old Bosh was a pretty bad defender, holding down the worst defense in the NBA. A lot of that can be blamed on the other awful defenders they had at the time (the whole team was awful, but Calderon and Bargnani have always stood out. Its possible that Love could turn it around. He isn't the athlete Bosh is, but he is athletic enough to be a passable defender.

 

[thecatch]

Bosh is long enough vertically to put up a little bit of a fight around the rim (Bosh's standing reach is 3 inches taller than Love's, which helps), and Bosh is athletic enough to attack ball handlers on the pick and roll, which I don't think Love can do consistently. I'm sure Love's defensive effort would improve given that he'll be asked to score 10 less points a game, but Love's defensive upside is certainly lower.

 

[Premier]

I have zero idea what the thread title means.

 

[Britney Spears]

, Love might give them a point or two on offense but probably costs them more defensively between himself and the loss of Wiggins. Wiggins also gIves them more flexibility lineup wise.

This is ridiculous. There is zero chance the Cavs are a better team next year with rookie Wiggins over top 10 NBA player Love. Ridiculous.

I'm def a lot higher on Love than most, but to call that statement a fishing trip is over the top. He rebounds like a rock star, shoots lights out, and his averages are off the charts.... Career 19/12 or something along those lines, last year 26/12, which is where I think they'll remain over the next 4-5 years.

Seems like rebounding would drop significantly in Cleveland to me. Wolves guards were pretty atrocious shooting, weren't they? I guess Rubio doesn't miss much due to fear of shooting.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Seems like rebounding would drop significantly in Cleveland to me. Wolves guards were pretty atrocious shooting, weren't they? I guess Rubio doesn't miss much due to fear of shooting.

The Wolves also had probably the worst rebounding wing starters in the NBA in Kevin Martin and Corey Brewer. Brewer averaged 2.9 rebounds per 36 minutes which would be bad for a 5'7 point guard, much less a small forward. You'd think LeBron would steal a few boards from Love.

 

[Frostillicus]

IF the Cavs are going to trade Wiggins, doesn't it make more sense to sign him now, wait the 30 days, then trade him so his $5.5 million or whatever counts towards the salary they have to send back to match Love? Love makes $15.7 million. To get to that with Wiggins counting as $0 and without including Varejao they'd have to send Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters. After Wiggins signs they could do it with Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood.

 

[mcintyre1]

, Love might give them a point or two on offense but probably costs them more defensively between himself and the loss of Wiggins. Wiggins also gIves them more flexibility lineup wise.

This is ridiculous. There is zero chance the Cavs are a better team next year with rookie Wiggins over top 10 NBA player Love. Ridiculous.

Clearly someone who's never really watched Love play.

 

[thecatch]

Looks like the Rockets just can't handle Ben McLemore and Ray McCallum in the fourth quarter of the Summer League Championship. Morey loses a little more of his luster.

 

[wadegarrett]

IF the Cavs are going to trade Wiggins, doesn't it make more sense to sign him now, wait the 30 days, then trade him so his $5.5 million or whatever counts towards the salary they have to send back to match Love? Love makes $15.7 million. To get to that with Wiggins counting as $0 and without including Varejao they'd have to send Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters. After Wiggins signs they could do it with Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood.

Concur.

 

[Timmay]

I saw this on Twitter saying Love deal to Cavs is a done deal?

http://nesn.com/2014/07/report-kevin-love-trade-to-cavaliers-deal-is-done-no-timetable-given/

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I have zero idea what the thread title means.

You don't know of the potential that oozes out of Gorgui Dieng?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I saw this on Twitter saying Love deal to Cavs is a done deal?

http://nesn.com/2014/07/report-kevin-love-trade-to-cavaliers-deal-is-done-no-timetable-given/

OMGOMGOMGOMG

 

[Worm]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

 

[RUSF18]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.

The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.

The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

Europe is pretty big.

 

[RUSF18]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.

The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

Europe is pretty big.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but if it's about being able to find a place to play, there aren't many places where the playing environment and traveling conditions are better than what these kids would be getting playing for a major NCAA program.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.

The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

Europe is pretty big.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but if it's about being able to find a place to play, there aren't many places where the playing environment and traveling conditions are better than what these kids would be getting playing for a major NCAA program.

I'm just saying there are a lot of leagues of varying levels. Some of which where it isn't "hard to break through a roster and earn playing time."

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

 

[Abraham]

Aren't they at the cap? How can they add larger contracts?

 

[Village Idiot]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

14 team trade incoming.

 

[Village Idiot]

Aren't they at the cap? How can they add larger contracts?

Cavs send draft picks and or a player to 3rd team, 3rd team sends player(s) to Wolves?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Can't think there would be many left; especially not significant ones.

 

[the moops]

Celtics have Keith Bogans 5.3 million non guaranteed deal

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Celtics have Keith Bogans 5.3 million non guaranteed deal

why would the Celtics want to facilitate a deal that sends Love to Cleveland?

 

[Freelove]

Celtics have Keith Bogans 5.3 million non guaranteed deal

why would the Celtics want to facilitate a deal that sends Love to Cleveland?

Because they feel that whatever it is they're getting in return improves their team. And maybe because they don't feel like Love to Cleveland is the death knell for all other teams' chances that so many fans seem to think.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Celtics have Keith Bogans 5.3 million non guaranteed deal

why would the Celtics want to facilitate a deal that sends Love to Cleveland?

because moar draft picks

 

[sporthenry]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

I'd still say it didn't work out that well for Jennings. Sure he made a million but dropped to #10 in the draft. He was the #1 prospect in the country so he cost himself millions in that transaction. He didnt get a ton of minutes and everything seemed to take his toll on him. Either way we have to make assumptions. He plays college, he could certainly drop but he is getting better exposure, minutes and playing on his own level. I also don't think the year in Italy drastically affected his development although it might have gotten him used to the rigors of professional basketball. It still won't make a ton of sense for these guys to go abroad anytime soon. The lack of exposure kills them. Instead of being hyped like Jabari or Wiggins, you'll be closer to an unknown like Exum. I guess we'll see but I don't see a very good team having minutes for him. The only thing that could compete with NCAA anytime soon would be the D-league but even that needs changes.

 

[Abraham]

Mudiay signs a 1 year deal in China for $1.2 million.

Living in China for a year for a million bucks vs. going to college? I'm betting future college eligible HS stars are going to think a little harder about things.

It worked out okay for Jennings, not so good for Jeremy Tyler, although he's still kicking around. Aquille Carr is a name most people don't know now, but he was a monster high school recruit a couple years back that had issues qualifying and went abroad. Think he's struggling sticking with a NBDL team.The issue will be development. I'm not sure about China, but in Europe, it's hard for these young kids to break through a roster and earn playing time.

I'd still say it didn't work out that well for Jennings. Sure he made a million but dropped to #10 in the draft. He was the #1 prospect in the country so he cost himself millions in that transaction. He didnt get a ton of minutes and everything seemed to take his toll on him. Either way we have to make assumptions. He plays college, he could certainly drop but he is getting better exposure, minutes and playing on his own level. I also don't think the year in Italy drastically affected his development although it might have gotten him used to the rigors of professional basketball.It still won't make a ton of sense for these guys to go abroad anytime soon. The lack of exposure kills them. Instead of being hyped like Jabari or Wiggins, you'll be closer to an unknown like Exum. I guess we'll see but I don't see a very good team having minutes for him. The only thing that could compete with NCAA anytime soon would be the D-league but even that needs changes.

Disagree. The market for top talent to jump overseas isn't likely to be high, but this has the potential to absolutely gut the mid-range talent levels should a league (or two or three) emerge that will provide real development. Are there prohibitions in place that would keep, say, the Rockets from buying a team in China and filling it with USA under 21 prospects? Sign them to deals like 3/1.5 with a 1.5 million dollar buyout so if the kid gets drafted by someone else, the Rockets recoup their investment. It could work...

 

[Frostillicus]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

 

[Juxtatarot]

It's hard to argue that lack of exposure hurt Exum's draft stock. Or Enes Kanter's.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

Die

 

[Sammy3469]

It's hard to argue that lack of exposure hurt Exum's draft stock. Or Enes Kanter's.

I don't think it's lack of exposure, but more transporting an 18 year old into some random foreign country where they'll be playing against men, isn't exactly the greatest recipe for showcasing your strengths. More likely, they get exposed and have their draft stock go down (Exum basically took a year off of competitive ball).

Granted China would seemingly be an easier league than some of those in Europe, but it's still a tough situation.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

Die

Remember that time you guys passed on Steph Curry? Twice? For guys at the same position? And then drafted another guy at that position later? That was pretty awesome.

 

[Bobcat10]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

Die

I've been saying all along the Cavs need to work in a 3rd team (Phoenix? Someone step up!) that will give Minnesota a nice young player where 3rd team gets multiple 1st/2nd's...and Cavs still throw in some combo of Bennett Waiters Thompson to Minny. Maybe get Martin off their books somehow. I'm just not sure how feasible this is. I like the 14-team trade comment on the last page.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

 

[Bobcat10]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

Taj, Butler, Mirotic and McDermott

 

[Bobcat10]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

Taj, Butler, Mirotic and McDermott

Ok so they are still about a month away from being a true contender as well. Cle still has to be more intriguing to Love, with or without Wiggs.

 

[Frostillicus]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

I choose to ignore that possibility.

 

[xulf]

Noah, Love, and Gasol all on the court at the same time?

ETA - it would be funny if they traded Gasol after he took a discount to sign with the Bulls

 

[Harris]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

Taj, Butler, Mirotic and McDermott

Ok so they are still about a month away from being a true contender as well. Cle still has to be more intriguing to Love, with or without Wiggs.

The Bulls are continuously one of the most disappointing teams to follow during the off-season, and I say that as a Bulls fan.

No chance the Bulls come up with Love.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

Taj, Butler, Mirotic and McDermott

Ok so they are still about a month away from being a true contender as well. Cle still has to be more intriguing to Love, with or without Wiggs.

Depends on what Minnesota's goals are. The guys from Chicago will make them a much better team for the next 2ish years. Wiggins/Bennett will make them better in 3+ years until they leave for Toronto.

 

[Frostillicus]

Cleveland's searching league for non-guaranteed contracts that potentially could be included in a bigger deal later, sources tell Yahoo.

Interesting, since if my math is right Wiggins, Bennett, and Haywood would be enough to get love, salary-wise. Maybe they're looking at taking something else back, whether it's Kevin Martin or Dieng or something else.

Or, you know, not give up Wiggins.

Die

Remember that time you guys passed on Steph Curry? Twice? For guys at the same position? And then drafted another guy at that position later? That was pretty awesome.

That third PG was taken for another team, thank you very much.

 

[Village Idiot]

NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 17m

Bulls making push for Kevin Love, Cavs still in lead (via @ESPNSteinLine & @WindhorstESPN).

Taj and what? Am I missing all the other intriguing trade pieces on that roster?

Taj, Butler, Mirotic and McDermott

Ok so they are still about a month away from being a true contender as well. Cle still has to be more intriguing to Love, with or without Wiggs.

Depends on what Minnesota's goals are. The guys from Chicago will make them a much better team for the next 2ish years. Wiggins/Bennett will make them better in 3+ years until they leave for Toronto.

Stop saying leaving for Toronto, Flip may be reading this.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Good thing Melo signed that big deal. Looks like he's trying to piss it all away.

 

[thecatch]

Noah, Love, and Gasol all on the court at the same time?

ETA - it would be funny if they traded Gasol after he took a discount to sign with the Bulls

They couldn't play those guys together, but Healthy Rose and Noah would be two perfect teammates to pair with Love.