*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[Balco]

Cavs really, really need to acquire Kevin Love.

At first I thought Wiggins wasn't worth it, but if the Wolves would do a straight Love for Wiggins deal, the Cavs should sign off.

They won't and the league wouldn't allow it anyway.

Forgot about salaries.

 

[Village Idiot]

And Steven A. Smith today goes on a diatribe about how Minnesota should do the Thompson, Barnes, Lee for Love deal.

That would be awesome, if GS was offering that.

It does make me laugh though when he reports ridiculous stuff like this tthat doesn't happen.

 

[Frostillicus]

I was listening to some national radio guy today and he said he watched one of the Cavs summer league games and no way should they do the trade because by year 2 Wiggins will be better than Kevin Love and also Anthony Bennett is going to be a double double machine. So I guess that's that then.

 

[the moops]

I see significant spacing problems. Irving is an average shooter.

Irving had a somewhat down year shooting the three, but he is still a career 38% three point shooter. Hardly average

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I was listening to some national radio guy today and he said he watched one of the Cavs summer league games and no way should they do the trade because by year 2 Wiggins will be better than Kevin Love and also Anthony Bennett is going to be a double double machine. So I guess that's that then.

It was a run.

 

[Kev4029]

I see significant spacing problems. Irving is an average shooter.

Irving had a somewhat down year shooting the three, but he is still a career 38% three point shooter. Hardly average

I saw somewhere that he was something like 31% in catch and shoot situations last year. Not really proving a point, I was just surprised to see that.

 

[Todem]

Stephen A Smith right now on First Take:

"In what world is Kevin Love worth Bennet, Wiggins and future #1" "In what world!!!"

"Don't tell me he is worth that if you could have had Klay, Barnes and Lee" (if that deal was truly offered which I can't believe the Wolves would not jump on in a NY minute).

"If your Minnesota you can't go back to your fans with a deal for Wiggins, Bennet and a #1"

"Not enough from Cleveland"

"If I am Minny I demand Kyrie Irving to even start a discussion".

.

 

[Premier]

Let's go no Stephen A quotes for now.

 

[Slapdash]

Let's go no Stephen A quotes for now ever.

 

[Todem]

The guy is entertaining and colorful.....I will always give him that. And before his ESPN shtick was actually a heck of an NBA beat guy. But that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

 

[Gatorman]

I hate me some stephen A, but he got the Lebron thing right (twice) and seems to be tuned in. Now get him some cheeze doodles

 

[TobiasFunke]

I hate me some stephen A, but he got the Lebron thing right (twice) and seems to be tuned in. Now get him some cheeze doodles

Huge difference between reporting and analyzing. The comments on the Minny-Cleveland trade are analysis. Horrible, horrible analysis.

 

[Pipes]

Stephen A Smith right now on First Take:

"In what world is Kevin Love worth Bennet, Wiggins and future #1" "In what world!!!"

"Don't tell me he is worth that if you could have had Klay, Barnes and Lee" (if that deal was truly offered which I can't believe the Wolves would not jump on in a NY minute).

"If your Minnesota you can't go back to your fans with a deal for Wiggins, Bennet and a #1"

"Not enough from Cleveland"

"If I am Minny I demand Kyrie Irving to even start a discussion".

.

Funny how things change. A couple of weeks ago the Twolves had no leverage, according to some posters, and they should jump at any offer from Cleveland even a crap offer including Thompson and Waiters. Now a legit offer of Wiggins, Bennett & a #1 isn't enough. I still think something happens with Love & Wiggins being the 2 main components it just makes too much sense.

 

[Frostillicus]

Stephen A Smith right now on First Take:

"In what world is Kevin Love worth Bennet, Wiggins and future #1" "In what world!!!"

"Don't tell me he is worth that if you could have had Klay, Barnes and Lee" (if that deal was truly offered which I can't believe the Wolves would not jump on in a NY minute).

"If your Minnesota you can't go back to your fans with a deal for Wiggins, Bennet and a #1"

"Not enough from Cleveland"

"If I am Minny I demand Kyrie Irving to even start a discussion".

.

Funny how things change. A couple of weeks ago the Twolves had no leverage, according to some posters, and they should jump at any offer from Cleveland even a crap offer including Thompson and Waiters. Now a legit offer of Wiggins, Bennett & a #1 isn't enough. I still think something happens with Love & Wiggins being the 2 main components it just makes too much sense.

DELUSIONAL!

 

[pollardsvision]

The guy is entertaining and colorful.....I will always give him that. And before his ESPN shtick was actually a heck of an NBA beat guy. But that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

Yeah, I used to love SAS, but there's not much to defend anymore.

 

[rodg12]

I'd take Parsons #1.

Why did the Rockets let him go?

Because they totally blew it. They could have had him one more year at 900K. They totally underestimated the free agent bids he would get as a RFA.

A massive blunder.

I think it's at least possible Morey declined Parsons's option as a promise to the agent to get Dwight Howard.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

So Cleveland has said they'll sign Wiggins sometime this week. The delay supposedly has nothing to do with a potential trade, but instead is because Cleveland has 1.4M in cap space they could use. Maybe to sign Joe Harris and/or Dwight Powell to longer deals.

Once Wiggins signs he can't be traded for 30 days. Seems a little like a mini-deadline for a Love deal. If anything is happening before the season, we'll know this week it seems.

 

[Yenrub]

So the potential deal between the Cavs and Twolves is basically 4 #1's for Kevin Love?

 

[pollardsvision]

I think CLE should absolutely trade Wiggins for Love, but I don't understand adding additional picks. The Cavs are about to be giving $60 mill to 3 players.They are going to need all the cheap young role players they can get, and you can find them in the late 1st.

 

[Village Idiot]

Someone please explain to me how Rusillo can say a rumor is the Wolves and Cavs agreed to a trade of Wiggins, Bennett and a #1 for Love?

Even if Wiggins is signed, and they wait the 30 days, that is nowhere close enough to work salary wise?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

So the potential deal between the Cavs and Twolves is basically 4 #1's for Kevin Love?

The rumored deal is Wiggins, Bennett and next year's #1.

I believe they also have the Heat's #1, which would likely be a better pick.

 

[James Daulton]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

 

[Todem]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

Because the King has spoken.

 

[Village Idiot]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

Love helps immensely with floor spacing, plus his passing ability is a bonus.

I can't see Miller and Jones playing full time minutes to help with spacing.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So the potential deal between the Cavs and Twolves is basically 4 #1's for Kevin Love?

The rumored deal is Wiggins, Bennett and next year's #1.

I believe they also have the Heat's #1, which would likely be a better pick.

Bulls have a pick swap option with Cavs for next year's #1 (lottery protected), so it's very unlikely that pick will be < 25 or so.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Eric Koreen @ekoreen 20 Jul 08:21 ET

Andrew Wiggins at summer league, wearing a Toronto Blue Jays hat. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

Love helps immensely with floor spacing, plus his passing ability is a bonus.

I can't see Miller and Jones playing full time minutes to help with spacing.

Love would be a fantastic compliment for LeBron. Not sure why anyone questions it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Donte Greene - G/F - Celtics
Donte Greene, a former lottery pick from the 2008 draft, is attempting to make a return to the NBA.
"I’m just trying to come back and be a pro. I’m older now, more mature, and I’ve got a big family to take care of," said Greene. "[During Summer League I] Try to be a leader on the floor, be active, always be in the right spots. Play smart. Play hard. Trying to do the little things. Me being older now, it’s not so much coming out and having 30, 40 points as it was when I was younger. Now it’s about coming out and show teams I know how to play the game." Greene spent the last season in China, but even if he's able to land on an NBA roster, he will not have any fantasy value.


Source: Boston Globe



Yes, Donte, More mature.....Greene was arrested in Miami this morning. Good luck on your "comeback"

Fighting with Jo-Lonn Dunbar... I mean, the guy is 6'11 and all, but if Dunbar takes him down it is pretty much lights out.

 

[Bobcat10]

So the potential deal between the Cavs and Twolves is basically 4 #1's for Kevin Love?

The rumored deal is Wiggins, Bennett and next year's #1.

I believe they also have the Heat's #1, which would likely be a better pick.

Bulls have a pick swap option with Cavs for next year's #1 (lottery protected), so it's very unlikely that pick will be < 25 or so.

Cavs also have Memphis' 1st that is 1-5 and 15-30 protected.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Cavs also have Memphis' 1st that is 1-5 and 15-30 protected.

What does this mean? I understand the 1-5 part means Cle doesn't get the pick if it's that high, but does the second part means they don't get it if it's that low or that they don't have to take it?

 

[Synthesizer]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

Love would give them rebounding and shooting. But what if Wiggins is immediately a great defender, brings youthful energy, and can finish in transition? Those three things would be pretty important to this team also.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

My fear is that Love basically goes the Bosh route and just ends up hanging around on the perimeter waiting for LBJ to kick it to him. He certainly wouldn't put up the numbers he has in Minn if that's the case.

Obviously I know a counterpoint is that Bosh just played in 4 consecutive finals and won 2.

 

[Bobcat10]

Cavs also have Memphis' 1st that is 1-5 and 15-30 protected.

What does this mean? I understand the 1-5 part means Cle doesn't get the pick if it's that high, but does the second part means they don't get it if it's that low or that they don't have to take it?

Seems like that is a condition just like the 1-5 part. Cavs would not get the pick next year.

Here are the details taken from nbadraft.net and confirmed from the ESPN trade article:

protected 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 and 1-5 in 2018, unprotected in 2019

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Trade Lebron for Love, blow everyone's ####### mind.

 

[Premier]

Trade Lebron for Love, blow everyone's ####### mind.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-cavaliers-agree-to-trade-andrew-wiggins-l,36500/

 

[sporthenry]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

Love would give them rebounding and shooting. But what if Wiggins is immediately a great defender, brings youthful energy, and can finish in transition? Those three things would be pretty important to this team also.

Nobody involved is the perfect complement but they all provide some benefits. Love/Irving take scoring/facilitating out of LeBrons hands and lets him work off ball/save energy for defense. Wiggins can play defense and let LeBron worry more about offense.As far as floor spacing, Cleveland lacks a stretch big but almost everyone else can shoot. Irving shot 39% his first two years. Waiters was competent last year. Together, Jones and Miller can provide 20-25 minutes of great shooting. And Allen could easily join the team. Also, don't discount Delladova. We've seen LeBron turn fringe guys into rotation players. If he shoots well and keeps up defense, he could be an early surprise.

I also don't buy the whole Love passing thing that someone brought up. Sure, LeBron gets the Gretzky assists but it's not like Miami had as great a passer as Love. You just need someone to swing the ball. The offense wouldn't run through Love so some of his half court passing is limited.

I think it comes down to what you think the Cavs are worst at and can improve efficiency wise. I think the team as constructed will be a top 10 offense and defense team. Yes, Love might give them a point or two on offense but probably costs them more defensively between himself and the loss of Wiggins. Wiggins also gIves them more flexibility lineup wise.

 

[SWC]

i think the cavs should keep wiggins and forget about love and then just get him in the offseason if they love him so much they want to marry him there you go cleveland fans who want love because everything i have said in this thread for about nine months has been totally wrong you are guarantyed to have love by the end of lunch take that to the bank brohans

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Trade Lebron for Love, blow everyone's ####### mind.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-cavaliers-agree-to-trade-andrew-wiggins-l,36500/

Dammit!

 

[Slapdash]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

For the record, I'd much rather just have Love sign and stay here with the Wolves. Guy is a beast. :(

 

[fantasycurse42]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.

If they get Love, they can win now... With Wiggins I think it will be at least a year, probably two. No reason for Wiggins to develop while Lebron ages. Personally, I think it is a no brainer.

 

[Instinctive]

Trade Irving for Love + Dieng?

Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.

If they get Love, they can win now... With Wiggins I think it will be at least a year, probably two. No reason for Wiggins to develop while Lebron ages. Personally, I think it is a no brainer.

Two reasons:

1. If Wiggins develops into anything like what some were projecting last year they can win consistently for the next decade or more.

2. Wiggins comes much cheaper than Love for the next 4-5 seasons, so in reality its a choice between Wiggins + cap space or Love, not a one to one comparison.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. I don't know nearly enough about Wiggins, for one thing.

 

[the moops]

, Love might give them a point or two on offense but probably costs them more defensively between himself and the loss of Wiggins. Wiggins also gIves them more flexibility lineup wise.

This is ridiculous. There is zero chance the Cavs are a better team next year with rookie Wiggins over top 10 NBA player Love. Ridiculous.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.

If they get Love, they can win now... With Wiggins I think it will be at least a year, probably two. No reason for Wiggins to develop while Lebron ages. Personally, I think it is a no brainer.

Two reasons:

1. If Wiggins develops into anything like what some were projecting last year they can win consistently for the next decade or more.

2. Wiggins comes much cheaper than Love for the next 4-5 seasons, so in reality its a choice between Wiggins + cap space or Love, not a one to one comparison.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. I don't know nearly enough about Wiggins, for one thing.

The reason I go Love is the sure thing... We know what he is. Wiggins is a top prospect, but as of now that is it. With Love, Lebron, & Irving, the remaining cap space isn't as important as you have your three studs and can contend for a title every year for the next five. You are almost guaranteed to win the East in 3 or 4 out of the next 5. The sure thing is worth it IMO, versus the gamble for upside, but risk for downside.

 

[Bobcat10]

Trade Irving for Love + Dieng?

Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?

His extension kicks in after the season, so yes that would be short.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Trade Irving for Love + Dieng?

Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?

Ivring + Thompson for Love + Dieng.

Good for Cleveland, bad for Minny.

 

[wadegarrett]

Trade Irving for Love + Dieng?

Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?

Ivring + Thompson for Love + Dieng.

Good for Cleveland, bad for Minny.

The Cavs can't trade Kyrie Irving for 6 months after the type of extension he just signed.

Apparently even Stephen A. doesn't know this.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?

They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.

They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.

If they get Love, they can win now... With Wiggins I think it will be at least a year, probably two. No reason for Wiggins to develop while Lebron ages. Personally, I think it is a no brainer.

Two reasons:

1. If Wiggins develops into anything like what some were projecting last year they can win consistently for the next decade or more.

2. Wiggins comes much cheaper than Love for the next 4-5 seasons, so in reality its a choice between Wiggins + cap space or Love, not a one to one comparison.

I honestly don't know what I'd do. I don't know nearly enough about Wiggins, for one thing.

The reason I go Love is the sure thing... We know what he is. Wiggins is a top prospect, but as of now that is it. With Love, Lebron, & Irving, the remaining cap space isn't as important as you have your three studs and can contend for a title every year for the next five. You are almost guaranteed to win the East in 3 or 4 out of the next 5. The sure thing is worth it IMO, versus the gamble for upside, but risk for downside.

At some point the value of a prospect outweighs the value of a sure thing, especially when you consider the added salary flexibility. Like for example the Sonics/Thunder probably wouldn't have traded Durant for more than a small handful of players in the league, inc, probably the majority of the all-star starters that year. The question is whether Wiggins rises to that level. I honestly don't know.

And the cap space is always important regardless of who is already on the team. The Heat had their three stars in place, but I bet they'd tell you their future would look a lot different if they'd had an extra $10 million in cap space to play with over last season and this season. If that were the case we might be discussing LeBron guarding 4s full time now that Deng had joined him on the Heat and whether anyone in the East could possibly touch that team.