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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
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Village Idiot
Pokerguy
And Steven A. Smith today goes on a diatribe about how Minnesota should do the Thompson, Barnes, Lee for Love deal.
That would be awesome, if GS was offering that.
It does make me laugh though when he reports ridiculous stuff like this tthat doesn't happen.
That would be awesome, if GS was offering that.
It does make me laugh though when he reports ridiculous stuff like this tthat doesn't happen.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I was listening to some national radio guy today and he said he watched one of the Cavs summer league games and no way should they do the trade because by year 2 Wiggins will be better than Kevin Love and also Anthony Bennett is going to be a double double machine. So I guess that's that then.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
It was a run.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I saw somewhere that he was something like 31% in catch and shoot situations last year. Not really proving a point, I was just surprised to see that.
Todem
Footballguy
Stephen A Smith right now on First Take:
"In what world is Kevin Love worth Bennet, Wiggins and future #1" "In what world!!!"
"Don't tell me he is worth that if you could have had Klay, Barnes and Lee" (if that deal was truly offered which I can't believe the Wolves would not jump on in a NY minute).
"If your Minnesota you can't go back to your fans with a deal for Wiggins, Bennet and a #1"
"Not enough from Cleveland"
"If I am Minny I demand Kyrie Irving to even start a discussion".
.
"In what world is Kevin Love worth Bennet, Wiggins and future #1" "In what world!!!"
"Don't tell me he is worth that if you could have had Klay, Barnes and Lee" (if that deal was truly offered which I can't believe the Wolves would not jump on in a NY minute).
"If your Minnesota you can't go back to your fans with a deal for Wiggins, Bennet and a #1"
"Not enough from Cleveland"
"If I am Minny I demand Kyrie Irving to even start a discussion".
.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Huge difference between reporting and analyzing. The comments on the Minny-Cleveland trade are analysis. Horrible, horrible analysis.
Pipes
Footballguy
Funny how things change. A couple of weeks ago the Twolves had no leverage, according to some posters, and they should jump at any offer from Cleveland even a crap offer including Thompson and Waiters. Now a legit offer of Wiggins, Bennett & a #1 isn't enough. I still think something happens with Love & Wiggins being the 2 main components it just makes too much sense.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
So Cleveland has said they'll sign Wiggins sometime this week. The delay supposedly has nothing to do with a potential trade, but instead is because Cleveland has 1.4M in cap space they could use. Maybe to sign Joe Harris and/or Dwight Powell to longer deals.
Once Wiggins signs he can't be traded for 30 days. Seems a little like a mini-deadline for a Love deal. If anything is happening before the season, we'll know this week it seems.
Once Wiggins signs he can't be traded for 30 days. Seems a little like a mini-deadline for a Love deal. If anything is happening before the season, we'll know this week it seems.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I think CLE should absolutely trade Wiggins for Love, but I don't understand adding additional picks. The Cavs are about to be giving $60 mill to 3 players.They are going to need all the cheap young role players they can get, and you can find them in the late 1st.
Village Idiot
Pokerguy
Someone please explain to me how Rusillo can say a rumor is the Wolves and Cavs agreed to a trade of Wiggins, Bennett and a #1 for Love?
Even if Wiggins is signed, and they wait the 30 days, that is nowhere close enough to work salary wise?
Even if Wiggins is signed, and they wait the 30 days, that is nowhere close enough to work salary wise?
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
The rumored deal is Wiggins, Bennett and next year's #1.
I believe they also have the Heat's #1, which would likely be a better pick.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Why would CLE do this trade? Do they need a complimentary scorer to Lebron and Irving that much? Wiggins should be able to score simply based on his athleticism, and his defense will be miles better than Love. Do they really need Love's rebounding that much?
Todem
Footballguy
Village Idiot
Pokerguy
Love helps immensely with floor spacing, plus his passing ability is a bonus.
I can't see Miller and Jones playing full time minutes to help with spacing.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Bulls have a pick swap option with Cavs for next year's #1 (lottery protected), so it's very unlikely that pick will be < 25 or so.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Eric Koreen @ekoreen 20 Jul 08:21 ET
Andrew Wiggins at summer league, wearing a Toronto Blue Jays hat. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Andrew Wiggins at summer league, wearing a Toronto Blue Jays hat. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Love would be a fantastic compliment for LeBron. Not sure why anyone questions it.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Fighting with Jo-Lonn Dunbar... I mean, the guy is 6'11 and all, but if Dunbar takes him down it is pretty much lights out.Craig_MiamiFL said:
Bobcat10
Footballguy
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
What does this mean? I understand the 1-5 part means Cle doesn't get the pick if it's that high, but does the second part means they don't get it if it's that low or that they don't have to take it?
Last edited by a moderator:
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Love would give them rebounding and shooting. But what if Wiggins is immediately a great defender, brings youthful energy, and can finish in transition? Those three things would be pretty important to this team also.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
My fear is that Love basically goes the Bosh route and just ends up hanging around on the perimeter waiting for LBJ to kick it to him. He certainly wouldn't put up the numbers he has in Minn if that's the case.
Obviously I know a counterpoint is that Bosh just played in 4 consecutive finals and won 2.
Obviously I know a counterpoint is that Bosh just played in 4 consecutive finals and won 2.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Seems like that is a condition just like the 1-5 part. Cavs would not get the pick next year.
Here are the details taken from nbadraft.net and confirmed from the ESPN trade article:
protected 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 and 1-5 in 2018, unprotected in 2019
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Trade Lebron for Love, blow everyone's ####### mind.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Nobody involved is the perfect complement but they all provide some benefits. Love/Irving take scoring/facilitating out of LeBrons hands and lets him work off ball/save energy for defense. Wiggins can play defense and let LeBron worry more about offense.As far as floor spacing, Cleveland lacks a stretch big but almost everyone else can shoot. Irving shot 39% his first two years. Waiters was competent last year. Together, Jones and Miller can provide 20-25 minutes of great shooting. And Allen could easily join the team. Also, don't discount Delladova. We've seen LeBron turn fringe guys into rotation players. If he shoots well and keeps up defense, he could be an early surprise.
Love would give them rebounding and shooting. But what if Wiggins is immediately a great defender, brings youthful energy, and can finish in transition? Those three things would be pretty important to this team also.
I also don't buy the whole Love passing thing that someone brought up. Sure, LeBron gets the Gretzky assists but it's not like Miami had as great a passer as Love. You just need someone to swing the ball. The offense wouldn't run through Love so some of his half court passing is limited.
I think it comes down to what you think the Cavs are worst at and can improve efficiency wise. I think the team as constructed will be a top 10 offense and defense team. Yes, Love might give them a point or two on offense but probably costs them more defensively between himself and the loss of Wiggins. Wiggins also gIves them more flexibility lineup wise.
SWC
Bromigo
i think the cavs should keep wiggins and forget about love and then just get him in the offseason if they love him so much they want to marry him there you go cleveland fans who want love because everything i have said in this thread for about nine months has been totally wrong you are guarantyed to have love by the end of lunch take that to the bank brohans
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
They'd rather win one out of the next two than wait on Wiggins and Bennett to develop.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
They're in a hurry to reach the Finals out of the East soon before Durant joins the Wiz in 2016 and they destroy everything in their path.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
For the record, I'd much rather just have Love sign and stay here with the Wolves. Guy is a beast. :(
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
If they get Love, they can win now... With Wiggins I think it will be at least a year, probably two. No reason for Wiggins to develop while Lebron ages. Personally, I think it is a no brainer.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Trade Irving for Love + Dieng?
Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?
Or is Kyrie's salary still way too low to make that work?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Two reasons:
1. If Wiggins develops into anything like what some were projecting last year they can win consistently for the next decade or more.
2. Wiggins comes much cheaper than Love for the next 4-5 seasons, so in reality its a choice between Wiggins + cap space or Love, not a one to one comparison.
I honestly don't know what I'd do. I don't know nearly enough about Wiggins, for one thing.
the moops
Footballguy
This is ridiculous. There is zero chance the Cavs are a better team next year with rookie Wiggins over top 10 NBA player Love. Ridiculous.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
The reason I go Love is the sure thing... We know what he is. Wiggins is a top prospect, but as of now that is it. With Love, Lebron, & Irving, the remaining cap space isn't as important as you have your three studs and can contend for a title every year for the next five. You are almost guaranteed to win the East in 3 or 4 out of the next 5. The sure thing is worth it IMO, versus the gamble for upside, but risk for downside.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
The Cavs can't trade Kyrie Irving for 6 months after the type of extension he just signed.
Apparently even Stephen A. doesn't know this.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
At some point the value of a prospect outweighs the value of a sure thing, especially when you consider the added salary flexibility. Like for example the Sonics/Thunder probably wouldn't have traded Durant for more than a small handful of players in the league, inc, probably the majority of the all-star starters that year. The question is whether Wiggins rises to that level. I honestly don't know.
And the cap space is always important regardless of who is already on the team. The Heat had their three stars in place, but I bet they'd tell you their future would look a lot different if they'd had an extra $10 million in cap space to play with over last season and this season. If that were the case we might be discussing LeBron guarding 4s full time now that Deng had joined him on the Heat and whether anyone in the East could possibly touch that team.
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