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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

I didn't see the game. Did Kobe cover Wade the entire game?I only ask cause I think against teams like Boston, it is a big advantage having Kobe lay off of Rondo for most of the night on the defensive end. Fisher actually does a decent job chasing Ray Allen around all night, but I imagine he would be a disaster on a slasher like Wade.
Kobe guarded Wade most of the time and Wade was on Kobe pretty much the whole game. Dunno if it was just a bad night for Kobe, but man he looked slow there at the end - Wade was all over him on D during the last five minutes and it just didn't look like Kobe had any kind of quickness in his first step to beat Wade off the dribble. I thought the Lakers should have tried to go to Gasol in the post more there towards the end instead of Kobe one on one with Wade.
 
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Trivia: without looking up. Can you name the 7 players since 1980 to have multiple back to back titles?
Assuming at least 2 back to back stretches...JordanPippenRodmanKobeHorryFisherAnd the last one I know now but forgot until I looked at the 2000 Lakers (assuming there is only 7).
 
Trivia: without looking up. Can you name the 7 players since 1980 to have multiple back to back titles?
MJ, Pippen, Ron Harper, Kobe, Fisher, HorryMaybe John Salley?? (Only guy I recall part of the Pistons, Bulls & Lakers)Edit: Just saw the above. Totally forgot about Rodman :)
 
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5. Hawks (you really think the Hawks are going to drop below Philly - 4 GB and NY - 2.5 GB?)
Yes. This has as much to do with thinking the 76ers and Knicks will finish strong as it does with the Hawks demise. Both those teams are better than their current records indicate.Bulls also have a legit shot at #1. We might see the Celtics struggle some with all these injuries and new bench pieces. The Celtics' confidence also make them seem less concerned about coasting until the playoffs. Probably won't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
That is a lot of games to make up for Philly. They've got a 5 game west coast trip coming and while it isn't against very good teams, those are tough trips and Philly isn't exactly great on the road.
I agree, as a 76er fan.However if the 76ers are going to be worthy of any type of playoff consideration this year, they have to win on the road in these final weeks. They have improved quite a bit since mid January and they are 7-2 on the road since then.
Looking at it closer, the 76ers have a very daunting task ahead in the month of March. They start with back-to-back games, vs. Celtics at home....@ Mil.@ Jazz@ Clips@ Kings@ Blazersvs Hawks@ Heatvs Kings@ BullsCelts-Jazz-Blazers-Hawks-Heat-Bulls are 6 of the 10 games. And 7 on the road. :unsure:
 
Answer:

Rodman(Pistons 89/90 and Bulls 96/97/98)

Jordan(Bulls 91/92/93 and Bulls 96/97/98)

Pippen(Bulls 91/92/93 and Bulls 96/97/98)

Kobe(Lakers 00/01/02 and Lakers 09/10)

Fisher(Lakers 00/01/02 and Lakers 09/10)

Harper(Bulls 96/97/98 and Lakers 00/01 not on 02 team)

Horry(Rockets 94/95 and Lakers 00/01/02)

Orginal question was 6, but remembered Rodman as I was submitting.

John Salley was close but didnt make the Bulls 97 or Lakers 01 teams.

Luke Walton's first year was 04, the team that lost to the Pistons. These were Luke's first two titles.

 
'timschochet said:
Well, Gr00vus predicted this. I thought it would be a close Laker victory, but I can't say I'm surprised. Andrew Bynum didn't start playing until the 2nd half, and that really cost the Lakers. Will this game end the Heat's problems? They did a lot of things I liked- going to Bosh a lot in the 1st half, going to Wade toward the end. If they continue to do that, will it make up for their shortcomings?
:bye: EZ money.The Laker offense was horrible/stupid. Kobe tried to make a point and probably cost the Lakers a W as a result. Lakers get beat on the glass and outscored in the paint. Against the Heat that's inexcusable. Crummy games from Artest and Blake (is he totally useless now or what?).
 
'timschochet said:
Well, Gr00vus predicted this. I thought it would be a close Laker victory, but I can't say I'm surprised. Andrew Bynum didn't start playing until the 2nd half, and that really cost the Lakers.

Will this game end the Heat's problems? They did a lot of things I liked- going to Bosh a lot in the 1st half, going to Wade toward the end. If they continue to do that, will it make up for their shortcomings?
:bye: EZ money.The Laker offense was horrible/stupid. Kobe tried to make a point and probably cost the Lakers a W as a result. Lakers get beat on the glass and outscored in the paint. Against the Heat that's inexcusable. Crummy games from Artest and Blake (is he totally useless now or what?).
I warned you guys, the dude is a horrible basketball player.
 
Since the Melo trade the Nuggets have been getting zero national attention, but are playing pretty damn good ball right now and are 6-2 post Melo.

Vs Memphis 120-107 -W

Vs Boston 89-75 - W

At Portland 106-107 (OT) – L

Vs Atlanta 100-90 – W

Vs Charlotte 120-80 - W

At Utah 103-101 – W

At Clippers 94-100 – L

At Phoenix 116-97 - W

Ty Lawson has been a little inconsistent, but is showing signs of being a star, if he can continue to hit 18 foot jumpers when his defender goes under screens, he'll be an All-Star in a year or two.

The Nuggs play Saturday at home versus Detroit then they go on a four game road trip to NO, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami, with the last two being back to back nights. We're about to find out if the Nuggets are just a good local story, or if they can really play, I'm starting to lean a little to the latter.

 
Since the Melo trade the Nuggets have been getting zero national attention, but are playing pretty damn good ball right now and are 6-2 post Melo.Vs Memphis 120-107 -WVs Boston 89-75 - WAt Portland 106-107 (OT) – LVs Atlanta 100-90 – WVs Charlotte 120-80 - WAt Utah 103-101 – WAt Clippers 94-100 – LAt Phoenix 116-97 - WTy Lawson has been a little inconsistent, but is showing signs of being a star, if he can continue to hit 18 foot jumpers when his defender goes under screens, he'll be an All-Star in a year or two.The Nuggs play Saturday at home versus Detroit then they go on a four game road trip to NO, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami, with the last two being back to back nights. We're about to find out if the Nuggets are just a good local story, or if they can really play, I'm starting to lean a little to the latter.
Portland also needed a couple of lucky shots at the end to scrape that game out. Aside from the lethargic showing against the Clippers they have strung together the most complete run of games we've seen all year. I think they could easily become the team that no one wants to see in the first round. It's a deep and talented team, playing with house money.
 
Since the Melo trade the Nuggets have been getting zero national attention, but are playing pretty damn good ball right now and are 6-2 post Melo.Vs Memphis 120-107 -WVs Boston 89-75 - WAt Portland 106-107 (OT) – LVs Atlanta 100-90 – WVs Charlotte 120-80 - WAt Utah 103-101 – WAt Clippers 94-100 – LAt Phoenix 116-97 - WTy Lawson has been a little inconsistent, but is showing signs of being a star, if he can continue to hit 18 foot jumpers when his defender goes under screens, he'll be an All-Star in a year or two.The Nuggs play Saturday at home versus Detroit then they go on a four game road trip to NO, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami, with the last two being back to back nights. We're about to find out if the Nuggets are just a good local story, or if they can really play, I'm starting to lean a little to the latter.
and their best player IMO gallo has been out the whole time basically. Whats the word on Chandler are they gonna shell out big money to keep him?
 
'timschochet said:
Well, Gr00vus predicted this. I thought it would be a close Laker victory, but I can't say I'm surprised. Andrew Bynum didn't start playing until the 2nd half, and that really cost the Lakers.

Will this game end the Heat's problems? They did a lot of things I liked- going to Bosh a lot in the 1st half, going to Wade toward the end. If they continue to do that, will it make up for their shortcomings?
:bye: EZ money.The Laker offense was horrible/stupid. Kobe tried to make a point and probably cost the Lakers a W as a result. Lakers get beat on the glass and outscored in the paint. Against the Heat that's inexcusable. Crummy games from Artest and Blake (is he totally useless now or what?).
I warned you guys, the dude is a horrible basketball player.
I knew he wasn't good, but you're right, I didn't know he's this bad. It's unbelievable to me that guys who basically get a free lunch when surrounded by several other really good players can't make it pay in the slightest. I think TGunz could contribute more than some of these stiffs. I'd kill for Mario Chalmers on the Lakers right now. :cry:
 
Since the Melo trade the Nuggets have been getting zero national attention, but are playing pretty damn good ball right now and are 6-2 post Melo.Vs Memphis 120-107 -WVs Boston 89-75 - WAt Portland 106-107 (OT) – LVs Atlanta 100-90 – WVs Charlotte 120-80 - WAt Utah 103-101 – WAt Clippers 94-100 – LAt Phoenix 116-97 - WTy Lawson has been a little inconsistent, but is showing signs of being a star, if he can continue to hit 18 foot jumpers when his defender goes under screens, he'll be an All-Star in a year or two.The Nuggs play Saturday at home versus Detroit then they go on a four game road trip to NO, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami, with the last two being back to back nights. We're about to find out if the Nuggets are just a good local story, or if they can really play, I'm starting to lean a little to the latter.
and their best player IMO gallo has been out the whole time basically. Whats the word on Chandler are they gonna shell out big money to keep him?
I still think Nene is far and away the best player for the Nuggets with Gallo, Afflalo, Chandler, Felton, Lawson, Martin and JR all closely grouped for 2nd best. The nice thing the Nuggets got going for them in the playoffs, is there is no weak link in their rotation, so they don't match up poorly against anybody, and match up incredibly well against a few teams (most notably the Mavs).Sounds like they really like Chandler, and they would really like to keep him. Because he is a RFA, I would guess they will wait for a team to sign him to an offer sheet and worry about it then. IMO, if he gets an offer less than $6M/yr its a no brainer, if its $9M/yr or more its not worth it, anything in between would depend on JR Smith and how well Chandler closes out the season.
 
Since the Melo trade the Nuggets have been getting zero national attention, but are playing pretty damn good ball right now and are 6-2 post Melo.Vs Memphis 120-107 -WVs Boston 89-75 - WAt Portland 106-107 (OT) – LVs Atlanta 100-90 – WVs Charlotte 120-80 - WAt Utah 103-101 – WAt Clippers 94-100 – LAt Phoenix 116-97 - WTy Lawson has been a little inconsistent, but is showing signs of being a star, if he can continue to hit 18 foot jumpers when his defender goes under screens, he'll be an All-Star in a year or two.The Nuggs play Saturday at home versus Detroit then they go on a four game road trip to NO, Atlanta, Orlando and Miami, with the last two being back to back nights. We're about to find out if the Nuggets are just a good local story, or if they can really play, I'm starting to lean a little to the latter.
and their best player IMO gallo has been out the whole time basically. Whats the word on Chandler are they gonna shell out big money to keep him?
I still think Nene is far and away the best player for the Nuggets with Gallo, Afflalo, Chandler, Felton, Lawson, Martin and JR all closely grouped for 2nd best. The nice thing the Nuggets got going for them in the playoffs, is there is no weak link in their rotation, so they don't match up poorly against anybody, and match up incredibly well against a few teams (most notably the Mavs).Sounds like they really like Chandler, and they would really like to keep him. Because he is a RFA, I would guess they will wait for a team to sign him to an offer sheet and worry about it then. IMO, if he gets an offer less than $6M/yr its a no brainer, if its $9M/yr or more its not worth it, anything in between would depend on JR Smith and how well Chandler closes out the season.
i dont see how he only gets a 6M offer sheet per year. Some team will try to give him at least 9M per, Chandler is more then just offense dude can block shots as well as any SF in the game.
 
Bulls 94 - Hawks 76

76ers 89 - Celtics 86

Bulls move to within 1/2 game of the Celtics for the 1 seed.

:pickle:

Also, 76ers move within 3 games of the Hawks. No way they don't catch them. Two teams going in entirely different directions. Someone mentioned the 76ers difficult remaining schedule but the Hawks' schedule isn't easy either.

 
'Gr00vus said:
'Kev4029 said:
'Gr00vus said:
'timschochet said:
Well, Gr00vus predicted this. I thought it would be a close Laker victory, but I can't say I'm surprised. Andrew Bynum didn't start playing until the 2nd half, and that really cost the Lakers.

Will this game end the Heat's problems? They did a lot of things I liked- going to Bosh a lot in the 1st half, going to Wade toward the end. If they continue to do that, will it make up for their shortcomings?
:bye: EZ money.The Laker offense was horrible/stupid. Kobe tried to make a point and probably cost the Lakers a W as a result. Lakers get beat on the glass and outscored in the paint. Against the Heat that's inexcusable. Crummy games from Artest and Blake (is he totally useless now or what?).
I warned you guys, the dude is a horrible basketball player.
I knew he wasn't good, but you're right, I didn't know he's this bad. It's unbelievable to me that guys who basically get a free lunch when surrounded by several other really good players can't make it pay in the slightest. I think TGunz could contribute more than some of these stiffs. I'd kill for Mario Chalmers on the Lakers right now. :cry:
Maybe before my torn meniscus a couple years back, but now I'm as washed up as #2.
 
Bulls 94 - Hawks 7676ers 89 - Celtics 86Bulls move to within 1/2 game of the Celtics for the 1 seed. :pickle: Also, 76ers move within 3 games of the Hawks. No way they don't catch them. Two teams going in entirely different directions. Someone mentioned the 76ers difficult remaining schedule but the Hawks' schedule isn't easy either.
The jump this year has been amazing especially considering how much time the big acquisition has missed. Kurt Thomas is unreal. The Hawks scored 26 points in the 2nd half.
 
Those of you who wonder why us Laker fans are such big Kobe fans, this is why.

MIAMI – Kobe Bryant(notes) had come back into the empty arena, his gray Lakers T-shirt soaked with sweat as the shots kept arcing into the night. The clock lurched toward midnight, the clean-up crew stuffed popcorn boxes and wrappers into trash bags and the NBA’s most maniacal talent wouldn’t leave the gym. He had returned to shoot for an hour and a half on the Heat’s floor, to go back to work, launching hundreds of jumpers and inspiring a spectacle born of obsession and manipulation. This was for him. This was for them. This was because Bryant can still see LeBron James(notes) and Dwyane Wade(notes) in June, that the Miami Heat are still championship contenders.This was a complete mind game from Bryant, but also a concession of respect that he hasn’t counted out the fledgling Heat in the Eastern Conference the way some have gone and buried them. This is the way he sends messages, the way he shows respect. The Lakers have lost twice to the Heat now, and part of Bryant understands he won’t win his sixth title unless these Lakers can beat them four times this spring.Yes, the Heat got Kobe again on Thursday night, beat the Lakers 94-88. Wade owned the fourth quarter, ended a five-game losing streak, and the Heat’s three stars embraced long and hard at midcourt when it was over. Out of the arena they walked with such a sense of relief, with a renewed belief, and here was Bryant illustrating his devotion to the game’s pain: physical and mental.He was beating himself up on the floor late Thursday, stealing the stage and sending a bleep-you to James and Wade: Enjoy your night out after a big March victory, because I’m staying back to turn out the lights in your gymnasium.Bryant wanted the workout, wanted the chance to cleanse himself of missed shots and missed opportunities in the final minutes. Mostly, he wanted James and Wade to understand the lengths they’ll need to go to take his title away.“This is my job,” Bryant would say 2½ hours after the game, slumped in a chair courtside. “This is what you’re supposed to do … ”Yes, Bryant closed down the arena, but he couldn’t drive out the Heat. He’d been sloppy with the ball in the final minutes, missed some shots and let Wade get the better of him. Bryant hates losing, yes, but he really hates losing to the Heat. After the game, he was still railing over Wade hitting his elbow on a 3-point shot with just over a minute left and the Lakers down two points. “He fouled the hell out of me,” Bryant said.Still, the Lakers lost and Bryant admired the way Wade had come for them. Bryant isn’t close with James, but he has a different relationship with Wade. After the game, Bryant was asked in a private moment if the decision of Wade and James to come together has been a much more difficult proposition than they imagined.“Oh clearly it is,” Bryant said. “It’s been challenging for them, trying to figure things out. But they’re going to be all right.”For Team USA, Bryant and Wade had been considered the two closers. “Our alpha dogs,” one team official said. In the gold-medal victory over Spain in the 2008 Olympics, the fourth quarter of a tight victory belonged to them – not James. Wade requested to cover Bryant on Thursday night and forced him into misses and turnovers in the fourth quarter. Bryant had a hellacious start to the game but needed 21 shots for his 24 points. He’s played brilliantly for the Lakers and had his moments Thursday. Still, the final minutes belonged to Wade’s ferocity on defense, on the coach’s willingness to turn the ball back over to him.“I’ve played against him, and I’ve played with him on the Olympic team, and I know this: He’s really good at [closing],” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports. “He’s not afraid of those moments. I think the world of him. His game, his competitive spirit. … He’s great.”And then, Kobe’s eyebrows furrowed and he said: “I’d like to see us keep him out of the paint, though. I’d like to see us make him take some jumpers.”The Heat had been under siege, falling fast, and they needed desperately to correct themselves. Before the game, Lakers coach Phil Jackson disparaged the Heat’s offense, calling it “X-box” basketball full of one-on-one. Yet, the Heat finally had role players make shots, and most of all, granted Chris Bosh’s(notes) wish for a bigger part in the floundering offense.Bosh had made his demands in big, bold proclamations, blurting his need for the ball and baskets with a bemusing bravado. There was merit to his case, but most people – even his teammates – struggled to get past the awkwardness of his pitch without a roll of the eyes and a laugh. Twenty-four points later, Bosh had gone hard at the Lakers’ frontline and served notice to them and his teammates.All those Heat stars breathed a sigh, packed up and left American Airlines Arena. Bryant marched back onto the floor at 10:45 p.m. and started sweating again. Three Heat ball boys fed him passes, and Bryant marched to every corner of the floor and lofted his shots. Security staff and other Heat officials stood befuddled, unsure what to do. One security worker insisted he had never witnessed this in his eight years on the job. The Lakers were gone and Bryant was still dripping sweat on the Heat logo.Sometimes, players will do this in their own arena, but never on the road. This was a spectacle and no accident. Bryant’s still the player they’re chasing because he’s the MVP of the back-to-back NBA champions. Bryant knows these Heat will get it together and become a problem for everyone in the Eastern Conference. Wherever James and Wade had gone late Thursday, Bryant clearly wanted word to reach them: He won’t accept losing to the Heat. Not on Christmas, not on Thursday night and not in June.Hours later, when asked about his motivation in a text message, Bryant responded with the words of Achilles: “I want what all men want. I just want it more.”Nevertheless, the Miami Heat are still alive, and Kobe Bryant had gone and delivered a profound respect as the clock moved toward midnight. He was still sweating on the court here, still sweating the Heat.Want his title?Keep coming for Kobe, keep coming for June.
 
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Those of you who wonder why us Laker fans are such big Kobe fans, this is why.

MIAMI – Kobe Bryant(notes) had come back into the empty arena, his gray Lakers T-shirt soaked with sweat as the shots kept arcing into the night. The clock lurched toward midnight, the clean-up crew stuffed popcorn boxes and wrappers into trash bags and the NBA’s most maniacal talent wouldn’t leave the gym. He had returned to shoot for an hour and a half on the Heat’s floor, to go back to work, launching hundreds of jumpers and inspiring a spectacle born of obsession and manipulation. This was for him. This was for them. This was because Bryant can still see LeBron James(notes) and Dwyane Wade(notes) in June, that the Miami Heat are still championship contenders.More From Adrian WojnarowskiEmperor Riley lords over everything in Miami Mar 10, 2011As Heat lose, James, Wade fall apart Mar 7, 2011This was a complete mind game from Bryant, but also a concession of respect that he hasn’t counted out the fledgling Heat in the Eastern Conference the way some have gone and buried them. This is the way he sends messages, the way he shows respect. The Lakers have lost twice to the Heat now, and part of Bryant understands he won’t win his sixth title unless these Lakers can beat them four times this spring.Yes, the Heat got Kobe again on Thursday night, beat the Lakers 94-88. Wade owned the fourth quarter, ended a five-game losing streak, and the Heat’s three stars embraced long and hard at midcourt when it was over. Out of the arena they walked with such a sense of relief, with a renewed belief, and here was Bryant illustrating his devotion to the game’s pain: physical and mental.He was beating himself up on the floor late Thursday, stealing the stage and sending a bleep-you to James and Wade: Enjoy your night out after a big March victory, because I’m staying back to turn out the lights in your gymnasium.Bryant wanted the workout, wanted the chance to cleanse himself of missed shots and missed opportunities in the final minutes. Mostly, he wanted James and Wade to understand the lengths they’ll need to go to take his title away.“This is my job,” Bryant would say 2½ hours after the game, slumped in a chair courtside. “This is what you’re supposed to do … ”Yes, Bryant closed down the arena, but he couldn’t drive out the Heat. He’d been sloppy with the ball in the final minutes, missed some shots and let Wade get the better of him. Bryant hates losing, yes, but he really hates losing to the Heat. After the game, he was still railing over Wade hitting his elbow on a 3-point shot with just over a minute left and the Lakers down two points. “He fouled the hell out of me,” Bryant said.Still, the Lakers lost and Bryant admired the way Wade had come for them. Bryant isn’t close with James, but he has a different relationship with Wade. After the game, Bryant was asked in a private moment if the decision of Wade and James to come together has been a much more difficult proposition than they imagined.“Oh clearly it is,” Bryant said. “It’s been challenging for them, trying to figure things out. But they’re going to be all right.”For Team USA, Bryant and Wade had been considered the two closers. “Our alpha dogs,” one team official said. In the gold-medal victory over Spain in the 2008 Olympics, the fourth quarter of a tight victory belonged to them – not James. Wade requested to cover Bryant on Thursday night and forced him into misses and turnovers in the fourth quarter. Bryant had a hellacious start to the game but needed 21 shots for his 24 points. He’s played brilliantly for the Lakers and had his moments Thursday. Still, the final minutes belonged to Wade’s ferocity on defense, on the coach’s willingness to turn the ball back over to him.“I’ve played against him, and I’ve played with him on the Olympic team, and I know this: He’s really good at [closing],” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports. “He’s not afraid of those moments. I think the world of him. His game, his competitive spirit. … He’s great.”And then, Kobe’s eyebrows furrowed and he said: “I’d like to see us keep him out of the paint, though. I’d like to see us make him take some jumpers.”The Heat had been under siege, falling fast, and they needed desperately to correct themselves. Before the game, Lakers coach Phil Jackson disparaged the Heat’s offense, calling it “X-box” basketball full of one-on-one. Yet, the Heat finally had role players make shots, and most of all, granted Chris Bosh’s(notes) wish for a bigger part in the floundering offense.Bosh had made his demands in big, bold proclamations, blurting his need for the ball and baskets with a bemusing bravado. There was merit to his case, but most people – even his teammates – struggled to get past the awkwardness of his pitch without a roll of the eyes and a laugh. Twenty-four points later, Bosh had gone hard at the Lakers’ frontline and served notice to them and his teammates.All those Heat stars breathed a sigh, packed up and left American Airlines Arena. Bryant marched back onto the floor at 10:45 p.m. and started sweating again. Three Heat ball boys fed him passes, and Bryant marched to every corner of the floor and lofted his shots. Security staff and other Heat officials stood befuddled, unsure what to do. One security worker insisted he had never witnessed this in his eight years on the job. The Lakers were gone and Bryant was still dripping sweat on the Heat logo.Sometimes, players will do this in their own arena, but never on the road. This was a spectacle and no accident. Bryant’s still the player they’re chasing because he’s the MVP of the back-to-back NBA champions. Bryant knows these Heat will get it together and become a problem for everyone in the Eastern Conference. Wherever James and Wade had gone late Thursday, Bryant clearly wanted word to reach them: He won’t accept losing to the Heat. Not on Christmas, not on Thursday night and not in June.Hours later, when asked about his motivation in a text message, Bryant responded with the words of Achilles: “I want what all men want. I just want it more.”Nevertheless, the Miami Heat are still alive, and Kobe Bryant had gone and delivered a profound respect as the clock moved toward midnight. He was still sweating on the court here, still sweating the Heat.Want his title?Keep coming for Kobe, keep coming for June.
I read this, and couldn't figure out why the Miami staff would hang out and help the guy work out. They should have hid all the basketballs then turned the lights out in the arena.
 
Bulls 94 - Hawks 7676ers 89 - Celtics 86Bulls move to within 1/2 game of the Celtics for the 1 seed. :pickle: Also, 76ers move within 3 games of the Hawks. No way they don't catch them. Two teams going in entirely different directions. Someone mentioned the 76ers difficult remaining schedule but the Hawks' schedule isn't easy either.
The jump this year has been amazing especially considering how much time the big acquisition has missed. Kurt Thomas is unreal. The Hawks scored 26 points in the 2nd half.
I think the Bulls played better than they would have if Boozer was healthy. Any extra offense Boozer could have provided would have been more than offset by Thomas' great defense on Horford.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:

 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
I've always had a lot of respect for Kobe and think he's one of the greatest players in NBA history.However, Kobe took horrible shots down the stretch in the Heat game much too early in the shot clock. I don't care how much Kobe practices, a horrible shot is a horrible shot. You must realize that.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
I've always had a lot of respect for Kobe and think he's one of the greatest players in NBA history.However, Kobe took horrible shots down the stretch in the Heat game much too early in the shot clock. I don't care how much Kobe practices, a horrible shot is a horrible shot. You must realize that.
Bulls fan? Ever watch Jordan? The great players know what they are doing, you roll with them through the good and bad and know in the end you trust them.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
It was all for show. He knew the cameras were rolling. Plus, it's the only time in Miami that we won't be the third best player on the floor.
You know nothing about Kobe if you think its for show. There were no cameras, or footage of this.
 
Those of you who wonder why us Laker fans are such big Kobe fans, this is why.

MIAMI – Kobe Bryant(notes) had come back into the empty arena, his gray Lakers T-shirt soaked with sweat as the shots kept arcing into the night. The clock lurched toward midnight, the clean-up crew stuffed popcorn boxes and wrappers into trash bags and the NBA’s most maniacal talent wouldn’t leave the gym. He had returned to shoot for an hour and a half on the Heat’s floor, to go back to work, launching hundreds of jumpers and inspiring a spectacle born of obsession and manipulation. This was for him. This was for them. This was because Bryant can still see LeBron James(notes) and Dwyane Wade(notes) in June, that the Miami Heat are still championship contenders.More From Adrian WojnarowskiEmperor Riley lords over everything in Miami Mar 10, 2011As Heat lose, James, Wade fall apart Mar 7, 2011This was a complete mind game from Bryant, but also a concession of respect that he hasn’t counted out the fledgling Heat in the Eastern Conference the way some have gone and buried them. This is the way he sends messages, the way he shows respect. The Lakers have lost twice to the Heat now, and part of Bryant understands he won’t win his sixth title unless these Lakers can beat them four times this spring.Yes, the Heat got Kobe again on Thursday night, beat the Lakers 94-88. Wade owned the fourth quarter, ended a five-game losing streak, and the Heat’s three stars embraced long and hard at midcourt when it was over. Out of the arena they walked with such a sense of relief, with a renewed belief, and here was Bryant illustrating his devotion to the game’s pain: physical and mental.He was beating himself up on the floor late Thursday, stealing the stage and sending a bleep-you to James and Wade: Enjoy your night out after a big March victory, because I’m staying back to turn out the lights in your gymnasium.Bryant wanted the workout, wanted the chance to cleanse himself of missed shots and missed opportunities in the final minutes. Mostly, he wanted James and Wade to understand the lengths they’ll need to go to take his title away.“This is my job,” Bryant would say 2½ hours after the game, slumped in a chair courtside. “This is what you’re supposed to do … ”Yes, Bryant closed down the arena, but he couldn’t drive out the Heat. He’d been sloppy with the ball in the final minutes, missed some shots and let Wade get the better of him. Bryant hates losing, yes, but he really hates losing to the Heat. After the game, he was still railing over Wade hitting his elbow on a 3-point shot with just over a minute left and the Lakers down two points. “He fouled the hell out of me,” Bryant said.Still, the Lakers lost and Bryant admired the way Wade had come for them. Bryant isn’t close with James, but he has a different relationship with Wade. After the game, Bryant was asked in a private moment if the decision of Wade and James to come together has been a much more difficult proposition than they imagined.“Oh clearly it is,” Bryant said. “It’s been challenging for them, trying to figure things out. But they’re going to be all right.”For Team USA, Bryant and Wade had been considered the two closers. “Our alpha dogs,” one team official said. In the gold-medal victory over Spain in the 2008 Olympics, the fourth quarter of a tight victory belonged to them – not James. Wade requested to cover Bryant on Thursday night and forced him into misses and turnovers in the fourth quarter. Bryant had a hellacious start to the game but needed 21 shots for his 24 points. He’s played brilliantly for the Lakers and had his moments Thursday. Still, the final minutes belonged to Wade’s ferocity on defense, on the coach’s willingness to turn the ball back over to him.“I’ve played against him, and I’ve played with him on the Olympic team, and I know this: He’s really good at [closing],” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports. “He’s not afraid of those moments. I think the world of him. His game, his competitive spirit. … He’s great.”And then, Kobe’s eyebrows furrowed and he said: “I’d like to see us keep him out of the paint, though. I’d like to see us make him take some jumpers.”The Heat had been under siege, falling fast, and they needed desperately to correct themselves. Before the game, Lakers coach Phil Jackson disparaged the Heat’s offense, calling it “X-box” basketball full of one-on-one. Yet, the Heat finally had role players make shots, and most of all, granted Chris Bosh’s(notes) wish for a bigger part in the floundering offense.Bosh had made his demands in big, bold proclamations, blurting his need for the ball and baskets with a bemusing bravado. There was merit to his case, but most people – even his teammates – struggled to get past the awkwardness of his pitch without a roll of the eyes and a laugh. Twenty-four points later, Bosh had gone hard at the Lakers’ frontline and served notice to them and his teammates.All those Heat stars breathed a sigh, packed up and left American Airlines Arena. Bryant marched back onto the floor at 10:45 p.m. and started sweating again. Three Heat ball boys fed him passes, and Bryant marched to every corner of the floor and lofted his shots. Security staff and other Heat officials stood befuddled, unsure what to do. One security worker insisted he had never witnessed this in his eight years on the job. The Lakers were gone and Bryant was still dripping sweat on the Heat logo.Sometimes, players will do this in their own arena, but never on the road. This was a spectacle and no accident. Bryant’s still the player they’re chasing because he’s the MVP of the back-to-back NBA champions. Bryant knows these Heat will get it together and become a problem for everyone in the Eastern Conference. Wherever James and Wade had gone late Thursday, Bryant clearly wanted word to reach them: He won’t accept losing to the Heat. Not on Christmas, not on Thursday night and not in June.Hours later, when asked about his motivation in a text message, Bryant responded with the words of Achilles: “I want what all men want. I just want it more.”Nevertheless, the Miami Heat are still alive, and Kobe Bryant had gone and delivered a profound respect as the clock moved toward midnight. He was still sweating on the court here, still sweating the Heat.Want his title?Keep coming for Kobe, keep coming for June.
I read this, and couldn't figure out why the Miami staff would hang out and help the guy work out. They should have hid all the basketballs then turned the lights out in the arena.
I hear you, but this is Kobe we're talking about, and the rivalry isn't exactly Boston/LA ' 0s.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
It was all for show. He knew the cameras were rolling. Plus, it's the only time in Miami that we won't be the third best player on the floor.
You know nothing about Kobe if you think its for show. There were no cameras, or footage of this.
Wrong. There were several local stations doing the sports from the arena, including Will Manso from Local 10. They showed Kobe shooting about 45 minutes after the game ended.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
It was all for show. He knew the cameras were rolling. Plus, it's the only time in Miami that we won't be the third best player on the floor.
You know nothing about Kobe if you think its for show. There were no cameras, or footage of this.
Wrong. There were several local stations doing the sports from the arena, including Will Manso from Local 10. They showed Kobe shooting about 45 minutes after the game ended.
So he did it for local Miami shows?
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
I've always had a lot of respect for Kobe and think he's one of the greatest players in NBA history.However, Kobe took horrible shots down the stretch in the Heat game much too early in the shot clock. I don't care how much Kobe practices, a horrible shot is a horrible shot. You must realize that.
What does one have to do with the other? Is it it a bad shot if he gets 3 FTs or makes it? Why would practicing more than anybody else to increase those odds be anything less than celebrated?
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
I've always had a lot of respect for Kobe and think he's one of the greatest players in NBA history.However, Kobe took horrible shots down the stretch in the Heat game much too early in the shot clock. I don't care how much Kobe practices, a horrible shot is a horrible shot. You must realize that.
Bulls fan? Ever watch Jordan? The great players know what they are doing, you roll with them through the good and bad and know in the end you trust them.
In a game and situation like that, I don't ever remember Jordan taking shots like those. I am quite certain he never did.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
It was all for show. He knew the cameras were rolling. Plus, it's the only time in Miami that we won't be the third best player on the floor.
You know nothing about Kobe if you think its for show. There were no cameras, or footage of this.
Wrong. There were several local stations doing the sports from the arena, including Will Manso from Local 10. They showed Kobe shooting about 45 minutes after the game ended.
So he did it for local Miami shows?
It's on YouTube. He did it for the universe to see how much harder he works than the other players. He's a great player, but I'm not sure he works harder than most other players.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
It was all for show. He knew the cameras were rolling. Plus, it's the only time in Miami that we won't be the third best player on the floor.
You know nothing about Kobe if you think its for show. There were no cameras, or footage of this.
Wrong. There were several local stations doing the sports from the arena, including Will Manso from Local 10. They showed Kobe shooting about 45 minutes after the game ended.
So he did it for local Miami shows?
It's on YouTube. He did it for the universe to see how much harder he works than the other players. He's a great player, but I'm not sure he works harder than most other players.
Sounds like a reasonable conclusion to make. Its not like the worlds greatest were all on the same team recently and said otherwise.
 
Wait a minute, Kobe took and missed some incredibly stupid shots down the stretch against the Heat but Lakers fan should love him for practicing his shot afterwards? :confused:
Don't be stupid.
I've always had a lot of respect for Kobe and think he's one of the greatest players in NBA history.However, Kobe took horrible shots down the stretch in the Heat game much too early in the shot clock. I don't care how much Kobe practices, a horrible shot is a horrible shot. You must realize that.
Bulls fan? Ever watch Jordan? The great players know what they are doing, you roll with them through the good and bad and know in the end you trust them.
In a game and situation like that, I don't ever remember Jordan taking shots like those. I am quite certain he never did.
Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
 
Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
 
Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
So in Game 5 of 98 Finals when Jordan shot 9 for 26, none of those 15 bricks were a "bad shot"? Or does a Game 5 Finals shot not have the same high profile as a regular season game unlikely to have any impact on playoff seedings?
 
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Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
So in Game 5 of 98 Finals when Jordan shot 9 for 26, none of those 15 bricks were a "bad shot"? Or does a Game 5 Finals shot not have the same high profile as a regular season game unlikely to have any impact on playoff seedings?
Jordan shot poorly in many playoff series. There is little doubt of that.Edit: I recall Kobe taking a few "You've got to be kidding me!" shots against the Heat down the stretch. If the last few minutes are on YouTube, post the link and I'll watch it again to be sure. It is very rare for any player to take high profile "You've got to be kidding me!" shots so this isn't a Jordan vs. Kobe thing.
 
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Sorry Juxtatarot

Sam Smith article from 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich.-- I come today to praise Kobe Bryant.

At a time when most are trying to bury him.

It seems last week Bryant, when he saved the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the NBA Finals with that shocking 3-pointer, as he'd done many times before, namely his twin threes in Portland at the end of the season that changed the entire playoff seeding, Bryant was Michael Jordan hitting that game-winning shot against Cleveland and Craig Ehlo in the playoffs. The shot was played over and over again on TV. And so the last few days Bryant has been Jordan again, as the joke here at the Finals goes, the Jordan in Washington. Like Dorian Gray, Bryant was aging but just his game.

Yeah, yeah, he takes bad shots. And he breaks the Lakers' offense a little too often.

Daring to be great is not just hitting the game-winning shot. It's failing, as well, as Jordan has said many times. And trying. This is what truly separates the great ones. They don't ever expect to miss. Or lose.

Jordan wasn't always smart, and he wasn't always in the offense and wasn't always taking the right shot at the right time. Competition, youth and frustration understand that.

With the Detroit Pistons leading the NBA Finals 3-1, Joe Dumars, who has done a magnificent job in building an unlikely champion, was sitting in the stands as his team practiced on the eve of what could be his greatest moment as an executive. It's one thing to win when you have, well, guys like Joe Dumars. And Isiah Thomas, Shaquille O'Neal, Bryant, Jordan, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy and John Havlicek. But win it all with this Pistons team?

"The biggest statement you can make, without having to say anything, is to win the championship," Dumars said. "Then you don't have to say anything about what you did."

Bryant knows that position. So does O'Neal, Rick Fox and others on the Lakers. There were questions about Bryant's shot selection, which was curious. It's what everyone says when you are 4-for-13 and 8-for-25, as Bryant was the last two games. Fox suggested players should be fined for dribbling more than two or three times. Someone tried to bait O'Neal into a condemnation of Bryant when O'Neal had made 16 of 21 shots in Sunday's 88-80 defeat in Game 4 while Bryant had missed 17 of his 25. "Maybe Shaq should shoot 50 times," Fox wondered.

For his part, O'Neal saw the Kobe slam setup coming and said it was a trick question which he had no trick answer.

"You're not going to get me with that question today, buddy," O'Neal smiled.

So perhaps it was appropriate that it all happened here in The Palace at Auburn Hills, where the Pistons tortured Jordan and the Bulls for so many years until they finally made the Bad Boys go away.

It was 1989, remember that? Dumars does.

Jordan went off for one of those big-shot, bad-shot performances -- 10 for 29 -- in Game 1. But the Bulls won and took a 2-1 series lead before the Pistons laid them out three straight. Jordan was going to do everything he could to win this. Look, the truth is only a few aren't afraid to do it.

It was amusing the other day here to hear Pistons coach Larry Brown talking about Allen Iverson. Brown likes to tweak Iverson now and then, but he admires the competitor in "the little guy." Brown said just about every timeout he had in six years with the 76ers someone would be mumbling about the ridiculous shot Iverson took or all the dribbling he did. And then they'd get to the end of the game and everyone would throw the ball to Iverson and run away.

It was usually that way with the Bulls, especially in the early losing years. So Jordan had one of those 5-for-15 games and the Bulls lost Game 4 to even the series. The frustration of Jordan would boil over from time to time, always in Detroit, where the Pistons shadowed him and collapsed and handed him off from defender to defender in a defensive relay known as the Jordan Rules. Everyone has assignments to defense Jordan. If Sam Vincent beat you, so be it.

It's never worked better than it has in this series. No one on the Lakers but O'Neal and Bryant is averaging even seven points per game in the Finals. No one has scored in double figures in any game but those two. That has to be a dubious record.

So, with Jordan back then, teammates started talking and it got back to Jordan that perhaps some of those shots were ill-advised against Detroit's defense and perhaps a pass or two might've worked. In the next game, Jordan attempted eight shots. Heck, he could've gotten eight shots during a timeout if he wanted. Against Wilt, Russell and Kareem. C'mon. The message was clear: You think it's so easy. Try it.

Yes, Jordan was young then, 26, like Bryant, who will be 26 in August. Sometimes their youth, aggression, ability and desire interferes with their reason. But they are the major reason their teams succeed.

Dumars understands that. Nobody had a better view of Jordan in those years since Dumars was the primary defender, although with plenty of help.

"There are a lot of similarities," Dumars said when asked about the two. "Kobe is a better shooter at 25 than Michael was. Michael became a great shooter as he got older. Those guys are eerily similar to me. When I watch Kobe play, it's as close to Michael as I've ever seen. It's hard to imagine that. I have the utmost respect for his game. He made a play (in Game 4) I shook my head over, a floater away, kissed off the backboard. That's a hard shot to make."

But, Joe, Michael never took shots like that and had games like that!

"Times does a lot of things to people's memory," Dumars said with a knowing smirk. "It makes you think everyone had 40 every night. Mike had some awfully tough ganes in this building, awfully tough games. It's a little unfair to say Michael wouldn't have those games. He wasn't getting 40 in here. He had some good games, but he wasn't getting 40. But he was going to have the ball."
:blackdot:
 
Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
So in Game 5 of 98 Finals when Jordan shot 9 for 26, none of those 15 bricks were a "bad shot"? Or does a Game 5 Finals shot not have the same high profile as a regular season game unlikely to have any impact on playoff seedings?
Jordan shot poorly in many playoff series. There is little doubt of that.
You didn't answer the question. I'd credit you for trolling, but it actually appears you are serious. Michael Jordan has never attempted a "bad shot" in his life. :lmao:
 
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Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
So in Game 5 of 98 Finals when Jordan shot 9 for 26, none of those 15 bricks were a "bad shot"? Or does a Game 5 Finals shot not have the same high profile as a regular season game unlikely to have any impact on playoff seedings?
Jordan shot poorly in many playoff series. There is little doubt of that.
You didn't answer the question. I'd credit you for trolling, but it actually appears you are serious. Michael Jordan has never attempted a "bad shot" in his life. :lmao:
I edited for you.
 
Sorry Juxtatarot

Sam Smith article from 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich.-- I come today to praise Kobe Bryant.

At a time when most are trying to bury him.

It seems last week Bryant, when he saved the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the NBA Finals with that shocking 3-pointer, as he'd done many times before, namely his twin threes in Portland at the end of the season that changed the entire playoff seeding, Bryant was Michael Jordan hitting that game-winning shot against Cleveland and Craig Ehlo in the playoffs. The shot was played over and over again on TV. And so the last few days Bryant has been Jordan again, as the joke here at the Finals goes, the Jordan in Washington. Like Dorian Gray, Bryant was aging but just his game.

Yeah, yeah, he takes bad shots. And he breaks the Lakers' offense a little too often.

Daring to be great is not just hitting the game-winning shot. It's failing, as well, as Jordan has said many times. And trying. This is what truly separates the great ones. They don't ever expect to miss. Or lose.

Jordan wasn't always smart, and he wasn't always in the offense and wasn't always taking the right shot at the right time. Competition, youth and frustration understand that.

With the Detroit Pistons leading the NBA Finals 3-1, Joe Dumars, who has done a magnificent job in building an unlikely champion, was sitting in the stands as his team practiced on the eve of what could be his greatest moment as an executive. It's one thing to win when you have, well, guys like Joe Dumars. And Isiah Thomas, Shaquille O'Neal, Bryant, Jordan, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy and John Havlicek. But win it all with this Pistons team?

"The biggest statement you can make, without having to say anything, is to win the championship," Dumars said. "Then you don't have to say anything about what you did."

Bryant knows that position. So does O'Neal, Rick Fox and others on the Lakers. There were questions about Bryant's shot selection, which was curious. It's what everyone says when you are 4-for-13 and 8-for-25, as Bryant was the last two games. Fox suggested players should be fined for dribbling more than two or three times. Someone tried to bait O'Neal into a condemnation of Bryant when O'Neal had made 16 of 21 shots in Sunday's 88-80 defeat in Game 4 while Bryant had missed 17 of his 25. "Maybe Shaq should shoot 50 times," Fox wondered.

For his part, O'Neal saw the Kobe slam setup coming and said it was a trick question which he had no trick answer.

"You're not going to get me with that question today, buddy," O'Neal smiled.

So perhaps it was appropriate that it all happened here in The Palace at Auburn Hills, where the Pistons tortured Jordan and the Bulls for so many years until they finally made the Bad Boys go away.

It was 1989, remember that? Dumars does.

Jordan went off for one of those big-shot, bad-shot performances -- 10 for 29 -- in Game 1. But the Bulls won and took a 2-1 series lead before the Pistons laid them out three straight. Jordan was going to do everything he could to win this. Look, the truth is only a few aren't afraid to do it.

It was amusing the other day here to hear Pistons coach Larry Brown talking about Allen Iverson. Brown likes to tweak Iverson now and then, but he admires the competitor in "the little guy." Brown said just about every timeout he had in six years with the 76ers someone would be mumbling about the ridiculous shot Iverson took or all the dribbling he did. And then they'd get to the end of the game and everyone would throw the ball to Iverson and run away.

It was usually that way with the Bulls, especially in the early losing years. So Jordan had one of those 5-for-15 games and the Bulls lost Game 4 to even the series. The frustration of Jordan would boil over from time to time, always in Detroit, where the Pistons shadowed him and collapsed and handed him off from defender to defender in a defensive relay known as the Jordan Rules. Everyone has assignments to defense Jordan. If Sam Vincent beat you, so be it.

It's never worked better than it has in this series. No one on the Lakers but O'Neal and Bryant is averaging even seven points per game in the Finals. No one has scored in double figures in any game but those two. That has to be a dubious record.

So, with Jordan back then, teammates started talking and it got back to Jordan that perhaps some of those shots were ill-advised against Detroit's defense and perhaps a pass or two might've worked. In the next game, Jordan attempted eight shots. Heck, he could've gotten eight shots during a timeout if he wanted. Against Wilt, Russell and Kareem. C'mon. The message was clear: You think it's so easy. Try it.

Yes, Jordan was young then, 26, like Bryant, who will be 26 in August. Sometimes their youth, aggression, ability and desire interferes with their reason. But they are the major reason their teams succeed.

Dumars understands that. Nobody had a better view of Jordan in those years since Dumars was the primary defender, although with plenty of help.

"There are a lot of similarities," Dumars said when asked about the two. "Kobe is a better shooter at 25 than Michael was. Michael became a great shooter as he got older. Those guys are eerily similar to me. When I watch Kobe play, it's as close to Michael as I've ever seen. It's hard to imagine that. I have the utmost respect for his game. He made a play (in Game 4) I shook my head over, a floater away, kissed off the backboard. That's a hard shot to make."

But, Joe, Michael never took shots like that and had games like that!

"Times does a lot of things to people's memory," Dumars said with a knowing smirk. "It makes you think everyone had 40 every night. Mike had some awfully tough ganes in this building, awfully tough games. It's a little unfair to say Michael wouldn't have those games. He wasn't getting 40 in here. He had some good games, but he wasn't getting 40. But he was going to have the ball."
:blackdot:
None of this disputes my point. Jordan certainly took his share of bad shots....just not like those. Kobe's were epically bad.
 
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Sorry Juxtatarot

Sam Smith article from 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich.-- I come today to praise Kobe Bryant.

At a time when most are trying to bury him.

It seems last week Bryant, when he saved the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the NBA Finals with that shocking 3-pointer, as he'd done many times before, namely his twin threes in Portland at the end of the season that changed the entire playoff seeding, Bryant was Michael Jordan hitting that game-winning shot against Cleveland and Craig Ehlo in the playoffs. The shot was played over and over again on TV. And so the last few days Bryant has been Jordan again, as the joke here at the Finals goes, the Jordan in Washington. Like Dorian Gray, Bryant was aging but just his game.

Yeah, yeah, he takes bad shots. And he breaks the Lakers' offense a little too often.

Daring to be great is not just hitting the game-winning shot. It's failing, as well, as Jordan has said many times. And trying. This is what truly separates the great ones. They don't ever expect to miss. Or lose.

Jordan wasn't always smart, and he wasn't always in the offense and wasn't always taking the right shot at the right time. Competition, youth and frustration understand that.

With the Detroit Pistons leading the NBA Finals 3-1, Joe Dumars, who has done a magnificent job in building an unlikely champion, was sitting in the stands as his team practiced on the eve of what could be his greatest moment as an executive. It's one thing to win when you have, well, guys like Joe Dumars. And Isiah Thomas, Shaquille O'Neal, Bryant, Jordan, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy and John Havlicek. But win it all with this Pistons team?

"The biggest statement you can make, without having to say anything, is to win the championship," Dumars said. "Then you don't have to say anything about what you did."

Bryant knows that position. So does O'Neal, Rick Fox and others on the Lakers. There were questions about Bryant's shot selection, which was curious. It's what everyone says when you are 4-for-13 and 8-for-25, as Bryant was the last two games. Fox suggested players should be fined for dribbling more than two or three times. Someone tried to bait O'Neal into a condemnation of Bryant when O'Neal had made 16 of 21 shots in Sunday's 88-80 defeat in Game 4 while Bryant had missed 17 of his 25. "Maybe Shaq should shoot 50 times," Fox wondered.

For his part, O'Neal saw the Kobe slam setup coming and said it was a trick question which he had no trick answer.

"You're not going to get me with that question today, buddy," O'Neal smiled.

So perhaps it was appropriate that it all happened here in The Palace at Auburn Hills, where the Pistons tortured Jordan and the Bulls for so many years until they finally made the Bad Boys go away.

It was 1989, remember that? Dumars does.

Jordan went off for one of those big-shot, bad-shot performances -- 10 for 29 -- in Game 1. But the Bulls won and took a 2-1 series lead before the Pistons laid them out three straight. Jordan was going to do everything he could to win this. Look, the truth is only a few aren't afraid to do it.

It was amusing the other day here to hear Pistons coach Larry Brown talking about Allen Iverson. Brown likes to tweak Iverson now and then, but he admires the competitor in "the little guy." Brown said just about every timeout he had in six years with the 76ers someone would be mumbling about the ridiculous shot Iverson took or all the dribbling he did. And then they'd get to the end of the game and everyone would throw the ball to Iverson and run away.

It was usually that way with the Bulls, especially in the early losing years. So Jordan had one of those 5-for-15 games and the Bulls lost Game 4 to even the series. The frustration of Jordan would boil over from time to time, always in Detroit, where the Pistons shadowed him and collapsed and handed him off from defender to defender in a defensive relay known as the Jordan Rules. Everyone has assignments to defense Jordan. If Sam Vincent beat you, so be it.

It's never worked better than it has in this series. No one on the Lakers but O'Neal and Bryant is averaging even seven points per game in the Finals. No one has scored in double figures in any game but those two. That has to be a dubious record.

So, with Jordan back then, teammates started talking and it got back to Jordan that perhaps some of those shots were ill-advised against Detroit's defense and perhaps a pass or two might've worked. In the next game, Jordan attempted eight shots. Heck, he could've gotten eight shots during a timeout if he wanted. Against Wilt, Russell and Kareem. C'mon. The message was clear: You think it's so easy. Try it.

Yes, Jordan was young then, 26, like Bryant, who will be 26 in August. Sometimes their youth, aggression, ability and desire interferes with their reason. But they are the major reason their teams succeed.

Dumars understands that. Nobody had a better view of Jordan in those years since Dumars was the primary defender, although with plenty of help.

"There are a lot of similarities," Dumars said when asked about the two. "Kobe is a better shooter at 25 than Michael was. Michael became a great shooter as he got older. Those guys are eerily similar to me. When I watch Kobe play, it's as close to Michael as I've ever seen. It's hard to imagine that. I have the utmost respect for his game. He made a play (in Game 4) I shook my head over, a floater away, kissed off the backboard. That's a hard shot to make."

But, Joe, Michael never took shots like that and had games like that!

"Times does a lot of things to people's memory," Dumars said with a knowing smirk. "It makes you think everyone had 40 every night. Mike had some awfully tough ganes in this building, awfully tough games. It's a little unfair to say Michael wouldn't have those games. He wasn't getting 40 in here. He had some good games, but he wasn't getting 40. But he was going to have the ball."
:blackdot:
None of this disputes my point. Jordan certainly took his share of bad shots....just not like those.
Are you drunk?Kobe shooting a 3 with a minute left from the corner, and a pull up 3 down four points with 20 seconds left were worse than any shot Jordan took in his career?

You really want to go with this after reading that article?

 
Are you serious? This is what its come to? I know the longer you are retired the more the legend grows, but c'mon. Jordan never took a shot like Kobe did in the Miami game?
First of all, Jordan didn't take a lot of 3s. Guess who the top two Bulls career leaders in 3 pointers made are. You'll be surprised. Jordan certainly took bad shots. However, never THAT bad in such high profile games and situations.
So in Game 5 of 98 Finals when Jordan shot 9 for 26, none of those 15 bricks were a "bad shot"? Or does a Game 5 Finals shot not have the same high profile as a regular season game unlikely to have any impact on playoff seedings?
Jordan shot poorly in many playoff series. There is little doubt of that.Edit: I recall Kobe taking a few "You've got to be kidding me!" shots against the Heat down the stretch. If the last few minutes are on YouTube, post the link and I'll watch it again to be sure. It is very rare for any player to take high profile "You've got to be kidding me!" shots so this isn't a Jordan vs. Kobe thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsI8t7H4V9oEarly in the shot clock deep three to tie while covered at 2:00 :shrug:
 
I am constantly shocked at the media's infatuation with Teflon Kobe. He seemingly does his best to derail his teams chances of winning vs Miami, but somehow its his teammates fault because he was practicing after the game.

 
Who does this Kobe guy think he is? You guys are so lucky you don't have him on your team. We can only imagine what could have been if the Lakers didnt make the trade to grab him. Sheesh! And even when we had the chance to dump his sorry (&($/$:$! , we instead got rid of the wrong guy! Uuuuuughhh!!!

 
Sorry Juxtatarot

Sam Smith article from 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich.-- I come today to praise Kobe Bryant.

At a time when most are trying to bury him.

It seems last week Bryant, when he saved the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the NBA Finals with that shocking 3-pointer, as he'd done many times before, namely his twin threes in Portland at the end of the season that changed the entire playoff seeding, Bryant was Michael Jordan hitting that game-winning shot against Cleveland and Craig Ehlo in the playoffs. The shot was played over and over again on TV. And so the last few days Bryant has been Jordan again, as the joke here at the Finals goes, the Jordan in Washington. Like Dorian Gray, Bryant was aging but just his game.

Yeah, yeah, he takes bad shots. And he breaks the Lakers' offense a little too often.

Daring to be great is not just hitting the game-winning shot. It's failing, as well, as Jordan has said many times. And trying. This is what truly separates the great ones. They don't ever expect to miss. Or lose.

Jordan wasn't always smart, and he wasn't always in the offense and wasn't always taking the right shot at the right time. Competition, youth and frustration understand that.

With the Detroit Pistons leading the NBA Finals 3-1, Joe Dumars, who has done a magnificent job in building an unlikely champion, was sitting in the stands as his team practiced on the eve of what could be his greatest moment as an executive. It's one thing to win when you have, well, guys like Joe Dumars. And Isiah Thomas, Shaquille O'Neal, Bryant, Jordan, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy and John Havlicek. But win it all with this Pistons team?

"The biggest statement you can make, without having to say anything, is to win the championship," Dumars said. "Then you don't have to say anything about what you did."

Bryant knows that position. So does O'Neal, Rick Fox and others on the Lakers. There were questions about Bryant's shot selection, which was curious. It's what everyone says when you are 4-for-13 and 8-for-25, as Bryant was the last two games. Fox suggested players should be fined for dribbling more than two or three times. Someone tried to bait O'Neal into a condemnation of Bryant when O'Neal had made 16 of 21 shots in Sunday's 88-80 defeat in Game 4 while Bryant had missed 17 of his 25. "Maybe Shaq should shoot 50 times," Fox wondered.

For his part, O'Neal saw the Kobe slam setup coming and said it was a trick question which he had no trick answer.

"You're not going to get me with that question today, buddy," O'Neal smiled.

So perhaps it was appropriate that it all happened here in The Palace at Auburn Hills, where the Pistons tortured Jordan and the Bulls for so many years until they finally made the Bad Boys go away.

It was 1989, remember that? Dumars does.

Jordan went off for one of those big-shot, bad-shot performances -- 10 for 29 -- in Game 1. But the Bulls won and took a 2-1 series lead before the Pistons laid them out three straight. Jordan was going to do everything he could to win this. Look, the truth is only a few aren't afraid to do it.

It was amusing the other day here to hear Pistons coach Larry Brown talking about Allen Iverson. Brown likes to tweak Iverson now and then, but he admires the competitor in "the little guy." Brown said just about every timeout he had in six years with the 76ers someone would be mumbling about the ridiculous shot Iverson took or all the dribbling he did. And then they'd get to the end of the game and everyone would throw the ball to Iverson and run away.

It was usually that way with the Bulls, especially in the early losing years. So Jordan had one of those 5-for-15 games and the Bulls lost Game 4 to even the series. The frustration of Jordan would boil over from time to time, always in Detroit, where the Pistons shadowed him and collapsed and handed him off from defender to defender in a defensive relay known as the Jordan Rules. Everyone has assignments to defense Jordan. If Sam Vincent beat you, so be it.

It's never worked better than it has in this series. No one on the Lakers but O'Neal and Bryant is averaging even seven points per game in the Finals. No one has scored in double figures in any game but those two. That has to be a dubious record.

So, with Jordan back then, teammates started talking and it got back to Jordan that perhaps some of those shots were ill-advised against Detroit's defense and perhaps a pass or two might've worked. In the next game, Jordan attempted eight shots. Heck, he could've gotten eight shots during a timeout if he wanted. Against Wilt, Russell and Kareem. C'mon. The message was clear: You think it's so easy. Try it.

Yes, Jordan was young then, 26, like Bryant, who will be 26 in August. Sometimes their youth, aggression, ability and desire interferes with their reason. But they are the major reason their teams succeed.

Dumars understands that. Nobody had a better view of Jordan in those years since Dumars was the primary defender, although with plenty of help.

"There are a lot of similarities," Dumars said when asked about the two. "Kobe is a better shooter at 25 than Michael was. Michael became a great shooter as he got older. Those guys are eerily similar to me. When I watch Kobe play, it's as close to Michael as I've ever seen. It's hard to imagine that. I have the utmost respect for his game. He made a play (in Game 4) I shook my head over, a floater away, kissed off the backboard. That's a hard shot to make."

But, Joe, Michael never took shots like that and had games like that!

"Times does a lot of things to people's memory," Dumars said with a knowing smirk. "It makes you think everyone had 40 every night. Mike had some awfully tough ganes in this building, awfully tough games. It's a little unfair to say Michael wouldn't have those games. He wasn't getting 40 in here. He had some good games, but he wasn't getting 40. But he was going to have the ball."
:blackdot:
I would think you would hold kobe, 15 years into his career, 5 title man, black mamba, in higher regard then comparing him to a relatively unproven 5 year player with no titles and not known as a great shooter at that point in time. Comparing these two at this point in their careers, how could you ever possibly make the argument for kobe in the overall picture? :stirspot:

 
Listen Kobe fans, you must forgive Jux. The Bulls have been celebrating the 1st title all season culminating in a reunion tonight. MJ, Scottie, and Grant have all made glowing statements about Rose as MVP and the Bulls as a elite contender. The Bulls love fest is at an extreme.

Obviously the wrong time to invoke MJ in comparison to Kobe. Especially when Kobe cost his team a winnable game with horrendous decisions down the stretch.

Did MJ ever make late game bad decisions? Sure.

Problem is, Kobe falls short in any true comparison to Jordan. And this isn't the time to make that comparison in Chicago.

 
I'm soberer now and will try clarify some of my earlier posts.

Jordan took many, many bad shots. There is no doubt about that. As a fan, I remember being frustrated with Jordan at times and complaining about his tendency to be a ball hog. Of course, Jordan is arguably the best player in NBA history and I accepted his flaws -- particular since his ego and extreme competitiveness that lead him to take many of those bad shots are also what drove him to be so great in the first place. Kobe is very similar to Jordan in this way.

However, the point that I didn't make clearly was how absolutely, incredibly bad some of Kobe's shots were in that game. The one that stands out the most is the one described here. (And I don't buy Kobe's explanations about the shot. It was what it appeared to be.) If you were to rate that shot on a 1 to 10 scale of bad shots, it was a 10. Kobe (or any other player) can take a highly contested 3 at any time. He shouldn't have taken it so early in the shot clock.

I probably watched Jordan play 1,000 games but obviously have forgotten the details of the vast majority of these. Did Jordan ever take a super bad shot that would rate a 10? I'm sure he did. Ever at crunch time in a high profile game like that one? Perhaps, but I don't remember it. Kobe's shot was sooooo bad I'm skeptical. And, no, the shot linked in that Knicks-Bulls playoff game isn't close.

 

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