*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

Did you say the same thing when Malone and Payton signed on with the Lakers?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Rumbles around town right now that Shaw will be offered Cleveland position this afternoon, if it hasn't been already.

Would be a great hire. I'm worried that if LeBron leaves, Brian could be taking on a lottery team that doesn't have much chance at winning thus making him look bad. Brian Shaw and Derek Fisher are the only two players I have watched while they played and had me convinced they would be great coaches one day. Shaw is the guy I want taking over for Phil if he decides to retire above anyone else.

No way Shaw would accept a Cavs' offer until the Phil situation is resolved, right?

 

[Sammy3469]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Right but that doesn't stop lebron, wade, and bosh and the heat agreeing to divide $45m by 3 and then using the remaining space for role players.

 

[Abraham]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

Interesting. I agree that Washington keeps getting a better for basically nothing through these trades.

His rings won't be regarded the same as Kobe's, Duncan's, Jordan's, etc

I have seen people rank all-time teams and all-time players, but I can't say I've ever seen someone rank the subjective "worth" a player's titles. Winning the NBA Title puts players in an elite company, period.

 

[oneohh]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

Did you say the same thing when Malone and Payton signed on with the Lakers?

These players don't include walkers or geritol in their negotiations; so it's different.

 

[Bobcat10]

ny times

Adviser to James Will Not Meet With N.B.A. Suitors

By JONATHAN ABRAMS

Published: June 29, 2010

When LeBron James starts listening to pitches on Thursday from the teams trying to lure him away from the Cleveland Cavaliers, one person who is not expected to be present is William Wesley, a prominent, behind-the-scenes adviser to various athletes and a longtime acquaintance of James.

Wesley, who straddles the worlds of college basketball and the N.B.A., is widely known by his nickname “Worldwide Wes.” In recent months, there has been speculation that he would play a significant role as James decides where he will be playing basketball next season.

There were reports that Wesley was trying to broker a deal in which the Bulls would sign James and hire Coach John Calipari away from the University of Kentucky. Other reports had Wesley trying to pair James with New Orleans Hornets point guard Chris Paul. The accuracy of these reports was never clarified.

But Maverick Carter, James’s longtime business manager, said Tuesday that Wesley would not play a role in James’s deliberations and would not be present as various teams visit his client in Ohio.

“All the Wes rumors are untrue and he will not be at the meetings,” Carter said. “Wes has nothing to do with where he goes.”

James, Carter and James’s agent, Leon Rose, are scheduled to be at the meetings, which are expected to begin shortly after the free-agency period officially starts at 12:01 a.m. Thursday. James is expected to meet with the Bulls, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat and the Nets and Knicks.

The Cavaliers will continue talking to James in an effort to keep him in Cleveland, where he has played all of his previous seven N.B.A. seasons.

 

[oneohh]

Cavs need to trade Delonte West. I don't see how Lebron will ever coexist with West after what he did to his mom.

Dang. People are still crying about this?

 

[Kendall]

It's borderline necessary for a knitting thread.

 

[Hang 10]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

what is more interesting for me(as the nets are out LBJ running IMO) is the Wizzards are gonna make a contender the way they are dealing. Beasley will be a wizard the way things are going.

Are you getting this Beasley info from anywhere or are you just speculating?

 

[Celph Titled]

It's borderline necessary for a knitting thread.

 

[Bobcat10]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

No. Final cap number don't come out till the 1st.

 

[Sammy3469]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

No. Final cap number don't come out till the 1st.

Cnnsi believes the max contracts will come to 16.8 which makes it even tougher.

 

[DCThunder]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

what is more interesting for me(as the nets are out LBJ running IMO) is the Wizzards are gonna make a contender the way they are dealing. Beasley will be a wizard the way things are going.

Are you getting this Beasley info from anywhere or are you just speculating?

Anybody think that Gil gets sent out of DC in the next few days? Like to the Knicks when they don't get LeBron? All of this is Ted Leonsis telling Grunfeld, do what you got to do to make this team better and put some butts in the seats next season...

 

[Juxtatarot]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

This was widely discussed.It's likely, however, that the Bulls can make additional trades to be able to sign 2 max contracts. Maybe Nets too. Also, not all max contracts are the same. David Lee, for example, has a lower max than LeBron.

 

[This_Guy]

Its an irrelevant question. Bosh isn't under contract with the Raptors. They cant force him to sign with a certain team to look for a better deal. But since you asked the Mavs could offer up the fake Dampier contract, Rodrigue Beaubois plus picks.

Do Bosh and Lebron want to earn the max? If so they must do a sign and trade with their teams first or leave 20-30mm on the table. Your trade off the $$$ doesn't match unless they threw in $$$.

This isn't true. Most of the difference in the contracts between what the Cavs can offer and what other teams can offer is wrapped up in the 6th year that only Cleveland can offer. The difference in money is about $5 million over the 5 year life of the contract. So it works out to an average of about $1 million a year. Certainly a lot of money but not all that significant relative to the ~$20 million average he will be making each year in the deal.I don't think Lebron is going to waste a lot of time worrying about that extra money. He may, as a good will gesture, let Gilbert know he is going to sign with a certain team and give him a short window to work out a sign and trade to get the Cavs a little something back in the deal and Lebron a slight bump in pay. The Cavs will likely decline because it will be a huge PR hit to do a sign & trade but if they do try they will have a couple of days to work with the team Lebron tells him he is going to. If they don't get it done quickly it wont happen.

LeBron holds all the cards here and isn't going to waste a bunch of effort on the logistics of a sign and trade.

Maybe breaking down Lebron's contract year by year with say the Heat vs Cavs would help....and maybe a link. I didn't think years 1 thru 5 were any different no matter where he signs.

The exact number are not know yet for what a max contract for LeBron could be. The 2010-11 Salary Cap figure will be set by the league on July 7. Right now the cap is projected at about $56 million. There are only 2 options for Max contracts - what the Cavs can offer and what any other team with available cap space can offer (Heat, Knicks, Bulls, Nets, Clips).According to the current CBA:

The most a 7-9 year vet can make is 30% of the cap in the first year of their contract. Link

The Cavs can offer 10.5% annual raises. Any other team can offer 8% annual raises. Link

The Cavs can offer a 6 year deal other teams a 5 year deal. Link

So assuming a $56 million cap next year the first year of Lebron's contract with any team next year will be $16.8 Million. From there Cavs vs Other:

Year 2: $18.564 vs $18.144

Year 3: $20.513 vs $19.596

Year 4: $22.667 vs $21.163

Year 5: $25.047 vs $22.856

Year 6: $27.051 vs New Contract

So the Cavs can give him $130.642 over 6 years and any other team can give him $98.559 over 5 years.

In the first 5 years of the deal the Cavs can offer him $5.033 more than any team.

The 6th year is a huge unknown because the current CBA ends after this year. It is possible the Lebron could get more than the $27Mil in this deal from a team in free agency under the new deal. It is possible he could get seriously hurt and not get a new deal. I is possible he can get a bigger deal in 5 years from now compared to 6 years. What if he takes the 6 year deal and gets seriously injured in year 6. He wont get a max contract and ends up out a lot of money he would have if he got a new deal in year 5.

LeBron and his team understand there are risks going both ways with the 6th year in a deal. How they evaluate that is a complete unknown to anyone but the people in that inner circle. There are valid arguments both ways. From an outside perspective we have to assume it is a draw and start to look at the other factors in the decision. The $5 million more over the first 5 years, the chance to win a championship, being in a city he is comfortable in, being in a city that maximizes his marketing value. These are all factors that are going to weigh more heavily than the 6th year of the contract. Remember that last time Lebron negotiated a shorter contract than the max with Cleveland.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

No. Final cap number don't come out till the 1st.

Cnnsi believes the max contracts will come to 16.8 which makes it even tougher.

Again, I do not believe these 3, if they agree to go to the Heat together, are all looking for individual max deals. Rather, I think they will agree to either split a number 3 ways or only Lebron and Wade get the max.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

Did you say the same thing when Malone and Payton signed on with the Lakers?

These players don't include walkers or geritol in their negotiations; so it's different.

I didn't see talent level described anywhere in his post. Are you denying that Payton and Malone genuinely liked Shaq and put money and individual fame on the backburner for a quest for the title? For some reason I'm guessing that they didn't greet the news with a similar deep appreciation for their selflessness.

 

[Hang 10]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

what is more interesting for me(as the nets are out LBJ running IMO) is the Wizzards are gonna make a contender the way they are dealing. Beasley will be a wizard the way things are going.

Are you getting this Beasley info from anywhere or are you just speculating?

Anybody think that Gil gets sent out of DC in the next few days? Like to the Knicks when they don't get LeBron? All of this is Ted Leonsis telling Grunfeld, do what you got to do to make this team better and put some butts in the seats next season...

Man, if the Knicks traded for agent zero, I'd laugh my ### off.

 

[Sammy3469]

So if I'm reading Chad Ford's and Marc Stein's tweets correctly, based on the max (somewhere around 16.6 million) neither Bulls nor Nets have the space to sign two max guys (close but no cigar) and the Heat don't have enough space for 3. I think the Knicks are still the only team with space for 2 (I'm probably wrong on that last point though).

Why is this just hitting now? Was the cap and max numbers not set on draft night?

No. Final cap number don't come out till the 1st.

Cnnsi believes the max contracts will come to 16.8 which makes it even tougher.

Again, I do not believe these 3, if they agree to go to the Heat together, are all looking for individual max deals. Rather, I think they will agree to either split a number 3 ways or only Lebron and Wade get the max.

I'm sure Bosh would go for that

 

[boubucarow]

From my understanding, the Bulls can't sign two max players even though they have appear to have the money. The reason is the remaining open roster spots (7 currently) count against the salary cap each as minimum salaries, correct?

 

[oneohh]

Maybe LeBron, Wade and Bosh had a lot of fun playing together for Team USA and they see an opportunity where all can play together again for max or near max compensation and potentially dominate the league. What's wrong with young guys wanting to have fun together, win and get paid, legacies be damned?

What's amusing to me about this scenario is here we have a situation where players who genuinely like each other are exploring the possibility of putting titles and teammates ahead of money and fame, and folks will still find a way to criticize them all for it.

Did you say the same thing when Malone and Payton signed on with the Lakers?

These players don't include walkers or geritol in their negotiations; so it's different.

I didn't see talent level described anywhere in his post. Are you denying that Payton and Malone genuinely liked Shaq and put money and individual fame on the backburner for a quest for the title? For some reason I'm guessing that they didn't greet the news with a similar deep appreciation for their selflessness.

Lighten up, Nancy. What I'm implying is that it's not quite the same thing.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

From my understanding, the Bulls can't sign two max players even though they have appear to have the money. The reason is the remaining open roster spots (7 currently) count against the salary cap each as minimum salaries, correct?

 

[whitem0nkey]

Nets traded Yi Jianlian to Wizards for a salary dump end of bench player. Creates more cap room for New Jersey.

what is more interesting for me(as the nets are out LBJ running IMO) is the Wizzards are gonna make a contender the way they are dealing. Beasley will be a wizard the way things are going.

Are you getting this Beasley info from anywhere or are you just speculating?

No im just joking not even speculating, I don't think the wizards have the cap space.

 

[joker]

Who all have the Wizards added so far? What's their roster look like now? Just curious

 

[cubd8]

Who all have the Wizards added so far? What's their roster look like now? Just curious

They've added Wall, Hinrich and Yi this off-season already to a roster than includes Blatche and Arenas. I think this is the main nucleus.

 

[oneohh]

Who all have the Wizards added so far? What's their roster look like now? Just curious

They've added Wall, Hinrich and Yi this off-season already to a roster than includes Blatche and Arenas. I think this is the main nucleus.

Where do we set the o/u for the amount of games Arenas plays in this (next) season?

 

[mlball77]

What is the consensus on Yi... is he (does he have the potential of) developing into a high-caliber NBA player or is he a mediocre-level starter or role player type?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

What is the consensus on Yi... is he (does he have the potential of) developing into a high-caliber NBA player or is he a mediocre-level starter or role player type?

From what I've heard, he has plenty of talent but his basketball IQ is lower than TGunz.

 

[Abraham]

Yao not opting out.

 

[oneohh]

What is the consensus on Yi... is he (does he have the potential of) developing into a high-caliber NBA player or is he a mediocre-level starter or role player type?

From what I've heard, he has plenty of talent but his basketball IQ is lower than TGunz.

You mean, TGump?

 

[cubd8]

Dirk officially opted out.Hard to walk away from $21MM. I admire that.It was probably the best long-term move for him, though. He can get a four-year deal for up to $96MM, and if he re-signs with DAL, he can get a no-trade clause if he wants it. Better to re-sign now that go into the 2011 work stoppage without a contract. This is probably the last summer to get guaranteed $20MM money in the NBA for a long time.

Sure he's walking away from the $21 million for one season, but with a new CBA, he has an opportunity to turn that $21 million into $100 million over 4 years. I think that's a common sense move.

 

[Steelfan7]

Steelfan> he is Completely wrong.

Yeah I knew he was completely wrong once again, but I was giving him a graceful way out of another fabricated misinformed post. He failed.

 

[thecatch]

Dirk officially opted out.Hard to walk away from $21MM. I admire that.It was probably the best long-term move for him, though. He can get a four-year deal for up to $96MM, and if he re-signs with DAL, he can get a no-trade clause if he wants it. Better to re-sign now that go into the 2011 work stoppage without a contract. This is probably the last summer to get guaranteed $20MM money in the NBA for a long time.

I suppose Cuban doesn't care, but that seems like a lot of money for Dirk while he is on the downside of his career. The no-trade would also limit the ability of the team to turn an expiring contract into more assets down the line.

 

[Steelfan7]

Who all have the Wizards added so far? What's their roster look like now? Just curious

They've added Wall, Hinrich and Yi this off-season already to a roster than includes Blatche and Arenas. I think this is the main nucleus.

Is Stern letting the Wizards play with two basketballs?

 

[whitem0nkey]

Jordan is still the highest paid basketball player according to Forbes.

Michael Jordan – $55M

Kobe Bryant – $48M

Lebron James – $43M

Shaquille O’Neal – $31M

Miami is less marketable than Chicago, while NY is more marketable than Chicago. In NY he would have the worst situation in terms of being able to win a championship, and in Miami the best at least the next 3 years. making Chicago a perfect medium. assuming they get a Lebron and Bosh/Dirk/JJ/Boozer.

as of this moment I think its between the Heats(40%ish) and the Bulls(40%ish).

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What kind of cap room/trade ammunition do the cave actually have if they sign lebron? Shaq's contract offtbe books has to leave them some room to sign another big free agent, right? Or am I forgetting something?

 

[Steelfan7]

Looks like Amare might be off the FA market soon. Suns offered him 4 yr/82.5 million. He'd be foolish to leave Nash and the Phoenix weather now.

 

[Juxtatarot]

What kind of cap room/trade ammunition do the cave actually have if they sign lebron? Shaq's contract offtbe books has to leave them some room to sign another big free agent, right? Or am I forgetting something?

No. They were pretty far over last year. They would be right around the cap if LeBron left.

 

[Balco]

What is the consensus on Yi... is he (does he have the potential of) developing into a high-caliber NBA player or is he a mediocre-level starter or role player type?

Not a good player at all. He can spot up and shoot, but his defense is atrocious. Maybe an end of the rotation guy, that's it. The Nets were smart to get rid of him.

 

[This_Guy]

What kind of cap room/trade ammunition do the cave actually have if they sign lebron? Shaq's contract offtbe books has to leave them some room to sign another big free agent, right? Or am I forgetting something?

No. They were pretty far over last year. They would be right around the cap if LeBron left.

They are at about $52 Million next year currently. The cap is expected to be about $56 million. That $4 Million isn't going to sign any big free agents.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What kind of cap room/trade ammunition do the cave actually have if they sign lebron? Shaq's contract offtbe books has to leave them some room to sign another big free agent, right? Or am I forgetting something?

No. They were pretty far over last year. They would be right around the cap if LeBron left.

They are at about $52 Million next year currently. The cap is expected to be about $56 million. That $4 Million isn't going to sign any big free agents.

What do we think shaq's market value is to say Atlanta? Couldn't they sign shaq and trade him and some others to the hawks for Joe Johnson in a duel sign and trade because you can go over the cap to sign your own players? Or does shaq need more years on the cabs to qualify for that exemption?

 

[Bobcat10]

Pierce to join the party.

 

[amphibianbri]

This party gets larger by the minute.....Pierce and Dirk now in as well........there could be a few all start teams out there with this much cash ready to flow

 

[D'OHtis]

I think Pierce is going to get far else than he wants annually IMO, but he made the right move to get a bit more money.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

What I would like to see happen

Lebron - Knicks or Nets

Joe Johnson - Knicks or Nets

Amare - Knicks or Nets

Wade - Heat

Bosh - Heat

Gay - Heat

Pierce - Bulls

Nowitzki - Bulls

 

[Captain Quinoa]

What I would like to see happen

Lebron - Knicks or Nets

Joe Johnson - Knicks or Nets

Amare - Knicks or Nets

Wade - Heat

Bosh - Heat

Gay - Heat

Pierce - Bulls

Nowitzki - Bulls

 

[Abraham]

While james is obviously the prize, I think the pool is deep enough that a few teams are going to be vastly improved through all this. I'd be interested to sewer if dirk leaves dallas. The panel of espn guys seemed too thank he might end up in miami on their show last night.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I'd be interested to sewer if dirk leaves dallas.

I'm interested to sewer, regardless of what Dirk does.