Ty Lawson 2 missed free throws, Chandler with bad D on Durant's last shot, etc. Plenty of things Denver could have done to win this game despite the refs.
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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)
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Footballguy
Props to you, seriously. I would never watch the NBA again.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm not saying it was all refs, but it sure was a large portion.
Yep. The backcourt was especially bad because they actually made the right call and then overruled themselves.
timschochet
Footballguy
Nobody's going to shut him down, but there is a certain gentleman from Los Angeles, this year's NBA good citizen of the year, who has been able to slow Durant down considerably.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
It's definitely not the same. I don't think a new team would feel right either. I can't see myself spending another penny on anything NBA.
Scruff Mcgruff
Footballguy
I have no dog in this fight but the refs really screwed Denver out of not 1 but now 2 games in this series. Disgraceful.
ffldrew
Footballguy
Britney Spears
guest speaker
Section X-Ball in Backcourt
a. A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which he or a teammate caused to go from frontcourt to backcourt while his team was in control of the ball.
He was in control of the ball, stepped into the front court, then stepped into the backcourt.
What am I missing? They should replay the end of the game. That wasn't a judgement call.
a. A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which he or a teammate caused to go from frontcourt to backcourt while his team was in control of the ball.
He was in control of the ball, stepped into the front court, then stepped into the backcourt.
What am I missing? They should replay the end of the game. That wasn't a judgement call.
Moe.
Footballguy
The explanation will be that he never established possession in the front court. FWIW Barkley just said it wasn't a violation.
PolishNorbi
Footballguy
Britney Spears
guest speaker
He first caught the ball in the back court. Then quickly stepped into the front court. Then stepped into the back court. It was a blown call at a very critical time that probably changed the outcome. Barkley works for the NBA. I don't expect a neutral opinion from him. He's entertainment.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
Ok. What about the two following steps he took?
I am a Denver fan, and 2 Nene missed dunks down the stretch and piss poor shooting from the line throughout the series is what lost it for them. Yeah, I'll give ya that the refs screwed them in game one, although they didn't score down the stretch in that game either. Congratulations Thunder, the better team won.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
I totally expected the Thunder to win a hard fought series. But the league totally blew two games in this series.
All the arguments about "plenty of chances to win" don't hold up when the calls like this are at the very end of the game. So many games are decided at the very end. There is no need for these types of calls, especially with replay available.
All the arguments about "plenty of chances to win" don't hold up when the calls like this are at the very end of the game. So many games are decided at the very end. There is no need for these types of calls, especially with replay available.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think the ball actually has to cross into the front court for there to be the possibility of a backcourt violation - i.e. as long as the ball stays in the backcourt it doesn't matter where the player is. I think.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
I don't believe this is true.
Moe.
Footballguy
What you are calling a step I am calling his foot coming down. There was one more step, which was on the line, but I think the whistle had gone at that point. I have no idea what the appropriate call is in that situation, and you sound pretty certain so whatever, it was a bad call. As far as this probably changing the outcome we can agree to disagree on that.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
That has nothing to do with it....If I remember correctly from high school, you have to have both feet across as well as the ball to establish possession. I'm not sure exactly what the rule is with regards to the center court line, but his first "established step" was on the line, second step was on the OKC side then his third step was over the line. If that first step counts as OKC side then its backcourt, if it is no mans land then it was a good call. Either way there is no ####### way the baseline ref should have anything to do with that call.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Seems clear from the rule you yourself posted. If the ball was never in the front court how can you cause it to go from the front court to the back court?
Kev4029
Footballguy
BIG difference between being down 1 with 15 seconds and down 3 with 12 seconds. The out of bounds on K-Mart was even worse than this call because they had 3 minutes of replay to see the ball hit Perkins calf and go out without Martin touching it.
Kev4029
Footballguy
He took two steps in the front court with the ball in his hands.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
Perhaps I posted the wrong portion of the rule. I've played basketball since I was in 3rd grade, and here's how I've always understood it. Once you have the ball inbounds, in the front court, you cannot step into the backcourt. It's just like the side or end line if you have to ball.
You are allowed to catch the ball in the backcourt if it was thrown from the front court OB. You can also jump into the back court to catch a ball thrown from the front court OB. If the ball is tipped by the other team, you can go get it. But if you have the ball in your control, you can't step into the backcourt.
Kev4029
Footballguy
FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation. 
If that is really in the rules it needs to be changed ASAP.
ETA: His momentum was carrying him parallel to center court anyway, so it shouldn't be the call regardless.
If that is really in the rules it needs to be changed ASAP.
ETA: His momentum was carrying him parallel to center court anyway, so it shouldn't be the call regardless.
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the moops
Footballguy
The 3 times the lakers played the Thunder this year, Durant has scored 21, 24 and 31 pts. Thats an average of 25 ppg, which is 2 points less than his yearly average. I think slow him down considerably is an exaggeration.I also am drunk though
Moe.
Footballguy
Again I want to say I have no idea how the rule is correctly applied in this situation, but here's how I see it: He caught the ball with one foot on the ground, the other foot was in the process of coming down. It came down on the line. The ref then blew the whistle. I believe the ref erroneously blew the whistle and the baseline ref realized it. Durant's next step would definitely have been a violation, but I think the whistle had already gone at that point.Perhaps I posted the wrong portion of the rule. I've played basketball since I was in 3rd grade, and here's how I've always understood it. Once you have the ball inbounds, in the front court, you cannot step into the backcourt. It's just like the side or end line if you have to ball.
You are allowed to catch the ball in the backcourt if it was thrown from the front court OB. You can also jump into the back court to catch a ball thrown from the front court OB. If the ball is tipped by the other team, you can go get it. But if you have the ball in your control, you can't step into the backcourt.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
So you're saying the ref blew the whistle before he could complete the turnover, so the decided to let them keep the ball? Possible I guess. Seems pretty bizarre.
Moe.
Footballguy
He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Bucher changed his story now to point out what I said earlier, his first step was on the line, second step frontcourt, third step on the line (considered backcourt at that time). To establish possession in the frontcourt you need two feet in the frontcourt.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Moe.
Footballguy
This is wrong. You guys are adding a step with the right foot I believe. He caught it with the right foot on the ground, it was his pivot foot. His left foot comes down on the line, in the backcourt. He takes a step with his left foot, it comes down in the backcourt.edit: even if there was another step with the right foot in there, it still wouldnt matter if what Bucher is saying is correct.Bucher changed his story now to point out what I said earlier, his first step was on the line, second step frontcourt, third step on the line (considered backcourt at that time). To establish possession in the frontcourt you need two feet in the frontcourt.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
If that is really in the rules it needs to be changed ASAP.
ETA: His momentum was carrying him parallel to center court anyway, so it shouldn't be the call regardless.
What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.
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the moops
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
He caught the ball with one foot in the frontcourt and on the line (this is what I've been unsure of the whole time, is that some neutral area in this case or should it be the frontcourt?), then took a full step into the frontcourt then stepped backcourt.He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I know this, and I even pointed it out almost an hour ago.
Moe.
Footballguy
His left foot was never in the frontcourt.He caught the ball with one foot in the frontcourt and on the line (this is what I've been unsure of the whole time, is that some neutral area in this case or should it be the frontcourt?), then took a full step into the frontcourt then stepped backcourt.He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Ibaka -- 26 blocks in the 5 game series. Love watching that guy play.
Moe.
Footballguy
His right foot was on the ground when he caught the ball, so the first foot that was established was his right foot in the frontcourt. His left foot comes down on the line. He is basically holding the ball and straddling the line at this point, with his right foot being the pivot foot as it was on the ground when the ball was caught. His next step has to be with his left foot (in the backcourt), otherwise it's a travel. If I'm understanding this correctly, he could basically run perimeter to the baseline without a violation, as long as his left foot stayed behind or on the line the entire time. Once the left foot goes beyond the line (which never happened) it can't come back.He caught the ball with one foot in the frontcourt and on the line (this is what I've been unsure of the whole time, is that some neutral area in this case or should it be the frontcourt?), then took a full step into the frontcourt then stepped backcourt.He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Wish Grizz would have put the Spurs away 2nite. No way can I see the Spurs winning this series.
Never seen an 8 seed clearly heads and shoulders better than a one seed. I give credit to the Spurs (they're still doing a hell of a job drafting guys -- G.Hill, G.Neal, D.Blair), but the window's slammed shut.
Never seen an 8 seed clearly heads and shoulders better than a one seed. I give credit to the Spurs (they're still doing a hell of a job drafting guys -- G.Hill, G.Neal, D.Blair), but the window's slammed shut.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
When he caught the ball his left foot was on the line and in the frontcourt then his right foot was in the frontcourt then his left foot landed back on the line then the whistle was blown.His left foot was never in the frontcourt.He caught the ball with one foot in the frontcourt and on the line (this is what I've been unsure of the whole time, is that some neutral area in this case or should it be the frontcourt?), then took a full step into the frontcourt then stepped backcourt.He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
If that is really in the rules it needs to be changed ASAP.
ETA: His momentum was carrying him parallel to center court anyway, so it shouldn't be the call regardless.
What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.
Actually.... I'm watching it on DVR right now (actually paused) catches it with both feet down facing toward the backcourt. His left foot is in the frontcourt but the toe is on the line but not over it (as he catches it, his heel is on the floor and his toe is in the air and as the toe hits fully in the backcourt and slides onto the line) and his right foot is about 12 inches into the frontcourt. He then turns parallel to the line begins to take a dribble while pivoting on his right foot and the ball hits the floor as he is stepping back onto the line with his left foot at which point the ref blows his whistle. I am 100% sure this is how it went down. Maybe that's not a backcourt violation, but that series of events is factual.
Moe.
Footballguy
If his toe is on the line his foot is in the backcourt, that's actually what saved him. It sounds like you disagree with the left foot being in the air when the ball was caught but that's immaterial, the rest of your description matches what I've been saying. The left foot was never established in the front court.When he caught the ball his left foot was on the line and in the frontcourt then his right foot was in the frontcourt then his left foot landed back on the line then the whistle was blown.His left foot was never in the frontcourt.He caught the ball with one foot in the frontcourt and on the line (this is what I've been unsure of the whole time, is that some neutral area in this case or should it be the frontcourt?), then took a full step into the frontcourt then stepped backcourt.He caught the ball with his right foot on the ground, in the front court. When the ball first touches his hands, his left foot is in the air and in the process of coming down. Ric Bucher just tweeted that both feet have to be established in the front court before a backcourt. Bucher's next tweet says that "If I understand the rule, this is what's interesting: if KD hadn't stepped on the line the 1st time, the 2nd time would've been a violation." So, I guess was wrong in my previous post (if Bucher is right there), the first real step (which was the second time his foot came down on the line) actually shouldn't have been backcourt, because his left foot was never established in the front court.That is a rule (the momentum thing).You are allowed to establish yourself. If you are running towards the half court line and catch the ball, you can take a step while catching the ball into the back court.FWIW, Ric Bucher is saying that because Durant's momentum was carrying him toward the backcourt it was not a backcourt violation.
If that is really in the rules it needs to be changed ASAP.
ETA: His momentum was carrying him parallel to center court anyway, so it shouldn't be the call regardless.
What Durant did, was catch the ball with one foot in the back court. That's fine. His 2nd step was in the front court. Also fine. At that point he had control of the ball. He then turned to escape the defender, on his own, and stepped into the back court after he'd already established control. That's a turnover.
Actually.... I'm watching it on DVR right now (actually paused) catches it with both feet down facing toward the backcourt. His left foot is in the frontcourt but the toe is on the line but not over it (as he catches it, his heel is on the floor and his toe is in the air and as the toe hits fully in the backcourt and slides onto the line) and his right foot is about 12 inches into the frontcourt. He then turns parallel to the line begins to take a dribble while pivoting on his right foot and the ball hits the floor as he is stepping back onto the line with his left foot at which point the ref blows his whistle. I am 100% sure this is how it went down. Maybe that's not a backcourt violation, but that series of events is factual.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Just rewatched the end of regulation in Spurs/Grizz. On the out of bounds play with 2.2 second left, had they thrown to Mayo (streaking away from G.Hill) the game would have ended and the Grizz win.
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You are either very pro Nuggets or anti-Thunder. You are ruining a good read. We get it. The refs won the series for the Thunder. It is always the refs fault when your team loses. The fact is if you are up 9 with 3 minutes to go in a NBA game you have nobody to blame but your team. A team has to do a whole lot wrong to lose in those situations. The Thunder showed they are the better team. They are fun to watch. Very young talented team and that crowd is bananas. I thought Oklahoma was a football state?
Thread Killer
Footballguy
The officiating has sucked for years. Even with replays the refs can't get it right. We can't even be certain that they know what the rules are.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Bosh may be more 'skilled' at this point in their careers but Garnett has always owned him.Not sure where the Celtics offense is going to come from in this series. Gotta think that Wade and James will clamp down pretty hard on Allen and Pierce. Garnett and Rondo don't exactly fill it up anymore.
timschochet
Footballguy
Rondo is the obvious mismatch, right? So much of their offense will come from Rondo penetrating and dishing.
Not sure where the Celtics offense is going to come from in this series. Gotta think that Wade and James will clamp down pretty hard on Allen and Pierce. Garnett and Rondo don't exactly fill it up anymore.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Yes/No. Rondo is not a volume scorer (unless playing the Knicks). Let him drive all he wants. Stick tight to KG, Allen and Pierce and maybe bring the center over for help. Let him penetrate, do not let him dish. Seems pretty simple in theory but obviously it isn't that easy.Rondo is the obvious mismatch, right? So much of their offense will come from Rondo penetrating and dishing.
Not sure where the Celtics offense is going to come from in this series. Gotta think that Wade and James will clamp down pretty hard on Allen and Pierce. Garnett and Rondo don't exactly fill it up anymore.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Can you unpack this for me? I thought the guy is universally respected around the league. Im legitimately curious.Full disclosure: Spurs fan.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I didn't see the play, buy I believe that the ball, not just your foot, has to cross into the backcourt for a violation.
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