*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Dr. Gobbler]

I'M JONESING FOR BASKETBALL!!!!!!

Basketball Jones, I got a Basketball Jones

Got a Basketball Jones, oh baby, oo-oo-oo

Yes, I am the victim of a Basketball Jones

Ever since I was a little baby, I always be dribblin'

In fac', I was de baddest dribbler in the whole neighborhood

Then one day, my mama bought me a basketball

And I loved that basketball

I took that basketball with me everywhere I went

That basketball was like a basketball to me

I even put that basketball underneath my pillow

Maybe that's why I can't sleep at night

I need help, ladies and gentlemens

I need someone to stand beside me

I need, I need someone to set a pick for me at the free-throw line of life

Someone I can pass to

Someone to hit the open man on the give-and-go

And not end up in the popcorn machine

So cheerleaders, help me out

{cheerleaders sing repeatedly...}

(Basketball Jones, I got a Basketball Jones)

(I got a Basketball Jones, oh baby, oo-oo-ooo)

{while Tyrone Shoelaces sings/speaks...}

Oh, that sounds so sweet

Sing it out

C'mon Coach Booty, Red Blazer, sing along with me

That be bad, honky

Yeah

I want everybody in the whole stadium to stand up and sing with us

Oh yeah, sing it out like you're proud

All right, everybody watchin' coast-to-coast, sing along with us

Bill Russell, sing along with us

Chick Hearn, sing along with us

Chris Schenkel, don't sing nothin'

Oh, it feels so good

Gimme the ball

I'll go one-on-one against the world, left-handed

I could stuff it from center court with my toes

I could jump on top of the backboard, take off a quarter, leave fifteen cents change I

could, I could dribble behind my back I got more moves than Ex-Lax I'm bad I could

dribble with my tongue Here I go down court, try to stop me You can't stop me 'cause I

got a Basketball Jones Here I come That's my hook shot with my eyebrow Yeah, I could

dunk it with my nose I'm, I'm bad as King Kong, gimme the ball I'm hot, I'm hot as...,

I'm hot as..., I'm hot as... uh Uh, uh, uh, uh

(Basketball Jones, I got a Basketball Jones, I got a Basketball Jones, Basketball Jones)

 

[Daywalker]

Can you name one thing that the owner's have budged on?

Nope.On a similar note, I can't name anything that Crazy Horse or Santa Anna budged on, either.

Exactly. Don't have a clue what you're talking about. All you see is millionaire's not the billionaire's who've gotten nearly everything they wanted. Owning a building with nothing to show is an empty building.

 

[boubucarow]

I absolutely hate forced parity like the NFL. Let the smartest decisions create the best teams and let teams keep their players. I hope the NBA doesn't force parity. It dilutes the talents on the best teams and makes the playoffs worse games.

Says the CHICAGO Bulls fan.I don't think the NBA needs the parity of the NFL, but for us fans in smaller markets, with the way the NBA was headed there was no hope for us. The NBA needs to find a way where players can't force their way out as easily. I think Bill Simmons' idea may be the solution, for every year a player plays for a team, his annual salary has the ability to be raised 500k a year in his next contract. This wouldn't have necessarily kept Lebron, Deron Williams, Bosh, or Melo (or soon to be Howard) with their original teams, but it would have been tough for one of these guys (other than Lebron, IMO) to turn down an extra $20M+ to stay.

I fully agree here. My take isn't that the market should allow the big markets to hoard talent. Revenue sharing should exist in the NBA to attempt to make certain a player has no reason to leave his current organization unless he has reasons to do so outside of money. I don't want a hard cap or heavily taxed soft cap that forces teams that have made the right decisions in the past to shed players.There is a good chance that Oklahoma City will have no chance to keep that team together in the future CBA. They built that team the right way and could get punished for doing so. Instead of creating an artificial ceiling of salary, I would lead towards a revenue sharing system where the elite players are payed by the league and not a specific team. Of course, not sure if that is even legal.

The only way for the smartest decisions to create the best teams is for the money spent to be equal.

It seems like it would be the only way. But it shouldn't be.

So the teams that have made the best decisions in the NFL over the last decade have not been the most successful?The NFL playoffs are worse than they were in the past? Expansion hurts quality more than anything else and that goes across the board in all the sports.

Yes, the Steelers, Patriots, and Ravens have great organizations and thrive in a system of forced salary parity. So the best decision makers usually win. But just think for a moment about all of the players those three teams had to let go off in the last decade or so in order to fit under the cap. The product that is the Steelers or Patriots is a diluted version of what it could have been because teams are not allowed to develop and keep their own talent over the long haul.Have the playoffs been exciting at times? yes. But are the playoffs better then when the Steelers, Raiders, and Dolphins or the Cowboys, Vikings, and Rams of the 70's battled every year? How about the 80's NFC battles of the Giants, 49ers, Redskins, and Bears? When you look past the obvious that players are more talented now, I feel deprived that we haven't been able to see the Steelers keep around everyone they wanted to keep around. Imagine the AFC playoffs the last decade if that was possible. The very good teams would have been tremendous teams. And let's not forget that prior to the Packers, the NFC playoffs while exciting has not exactly provided us with much greatness.I am not sure what my style of wanted system would look like and of course the NBA and NFL are two completely different animals. I just would want their to be a way for free agency to exist for players to find their best fit while also making certain every time has the money to keep together their entire team at market value for each player. If possible, that is what revenue sharing should accomplish. Give every team the chance to keep what they have built. I would take watching the great battles of the best collection of teams over a cap system that dilutes the top end product.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I absolutely hate forced parity like the NFL. Let the smartest decisions create the best teams and let teams keep their players. I hope the NBA doesn't force parity. It dilutes the talents on the best teams and makes the playoffs worse games.

Says the CHICAGO Bulls fan.I don't think the NBA needs the parity of the NFL, but for us fans in smaller markets, with the way the NBA was headed there was no hope for us. The NBA needs to find a way where players can't force their way out as easily. I think Bill Simmons' idea may be the solution, for every year a player plays for a team, his annual salary has the ability to be raised 500k a year in his next contract. This wouldn't have necessarily kept Lebron, Deron Williams, Bosh, or Melo (or soon to be Howard) with their original teams, but it would have been tough for one of these guys (other than Lebron, IMO) to turn down an extra $20M+ to stay.

The owners proposed an even better system for keeping the players by making Bird rights even more dramatic.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Bring on the Newark Hawks



-QG

 

[culdeus]

A couple of good BS Reports on Grantland with Marc Stein and Ric Bucher that really lay things out.

Bucher's pro-ownership rhetoric was nauseating. You can smell the unemployment checks in his voice.*player

Bucher was annoying, he basically said the NBA is different then other leagues only a few teams can be considered each year and a small market team needs to be lucky to win. That is true right now and that's what I hate about the NBA only a few teams are in real contention in each year and the other teams are there just to fill the numbers.

Seems like the deal being purposed would help fix this issue.

No system in the world will help the problem of only a few teams being in contention because basketball by nature can be dominated by one player. There's just so few players who are at that level.

NBA probably has about 2 too many teams. Knock off 4 and it wouldn't be the end of the world. Would anyone cry if the Kings, Grizz, Hornets, and TWolves just closed up shop in the middle of this? If the economics are that bad why not buy out those owners and make the game more competitive if that is the "real issue"? If it isn't the real issue then the big teams should just revenue share enough to support them. Either way you are putting those clubs on life support until they get a LBJ for a few years till he leaves for LA.

Looking at the attendance figures they are quoting all those teams with average over 10k per night. I don't buy that for a second. I remember TWolves games where you would have expected more from a NCAAF game.

I wouldn't cry, but I would feel for those fan bases. In the early 90s, the Dallas Mavericks were basically the Timberwolves of today. Then they lucked into a tremendous owner and top-15 player of all-time, and now here we are. But don't act like the Mavs have always been above this.

The difference being that Dallas is something like the 3rd or 4th biggest market in the US. The Mavs were never going to go anywhere.

Their hockey team ain't looking too sturdy. 97-99, the Mavs drew 15k, 13, then 14k. In 94, they drew 12.8 per game. I don't care how big your market is, that's not good.

My point isn't that certain towns aren't deserving, but if there are only 10-12 mega stars at any one time then the odds that any team ends up with one should/needs to increase. There just don't seem to be enough NBA caliber players to go around.

 

[Yenrub]

Bring on the Newark Hawks



-QG

The Bricklayers?

 

[QuizGuy66]

Bring on the Newark Hawks



-QG

The Bricklayers?

Brick City Bricklayers -QG

 

[proninja]

There is a good chance that Oklahoma City will have no chance to keep that team together in the future CBA. They built that team the right way and could get punished for doing so. Instead of creating an artificial ceiling of salary, I would lead towards a revenue sharing system where the elite players are payed by the league and not a specific team. Of course, not sure if that is even legal.

If by "the right way" you mean traded away every veteran who didn't suck then did everything possible to disenfranchise the fans in Seattle, then took the team to OKC after lying through their teeth the whole time, then I totally agree. They built that team in about the most wrong way possible. Yes, it's a great way to get a good team a few years down the line, and I wish more fans were farsighted enough so that a team that wasn't trying to get the hell out of dodge would do it. No, they did not build that team the right way. At all. Any CBA that requires that team to be broken up is all right with me. And yes, I'm still bitter.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

There is a good chance that Oklahoma City will have no chance to keep that team together in the future CBA. They built that team the right way and could get punished for doing so. Instead of creating an artificial ceiling of salary, I would lead towards a revenue sharing system where the elite players are payed by the league and not a specific team. Of course, not sure if that is even legal.

If by "the right way" you mean traded away every veteran who didn't suck then did everything possible to disenfranchise the fans in Seattle, then took the team to OKC after lying through their teeth the whole time, then I totally agree. They built that team in about the most wrong way possible. Yes, it's a great way to get a good team a few years down the line, and I wish more fans were farsighted enough so that a team that wasn't trying to get the hell out of dodge would do it. No, they did not build that team the right way. At all. Any CBA that requires that team to be broken up is all right with me. And yes, I'm still bitter.

That is the only way to build a team these days (other than the moving part). Be terrible for 3-4 years and hope to get lucky in the draft.

 

[proninja]

There is a good chance that Oklahoma City will have no chance to keep that team together in the future CBA. They built that team the right way and could get punished for doing so. Instead of creating an artificial ceiling of salary, I would lead towards a revenue sharing system where the elite players are payed by the league and not a specific team. Of course, not sure if that is even legal.

If by "the right way" you mean traded away every veteran who didn't suck then did everything possible to disenfranchise the fans in Seattle, then took the team to OKC after lying through their teeth the whole time, then I totally agree. They built that team in about the most wrong way possible. Yes, it's a great way to get a good team a few years down the line, and I wish more fans were farsighted enough so that a team that wasn't trying to get the hell out of dodge would do it. No, they did not build that team the right way. At all. Any CBA that requires that team to be broken up is all right with me. And yes, I'm still bitter.

That is the only way to build a team these days (other than the moving part). Be terrible for 3-4 years and hope to get lucky in the draft.

Right, but the only reason they did it that deliberately is because of the moving part. You can't separate the two.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

There is a good chance that Oklahoma City will have no chance to keep that team together in the future CBA. They built that team the right way and could get punished for doing so. Instead of creating an artificial ceiling of salary, I would lead towards a revenue sharing system where the elite players are payed by the league and not a specific team. Of course, not sure if that is even legal.

If by "the right way" you mean traded away every veteran who didn't suck then did everything possible to disenfranchise the fans in Seattle, then took the team to OKC after lying through their teeth the whole time, then I totally agree. They built that team in about the most wrong way possible. Yes, it's a great way to get a good team a few years down the line, and I wish more fans were farsighted enough so that a team that wasn't trying to get the hell out of dodge would do it. No, they did not build that team the right way. At all. Any CBA that requires that team to be broken up is all right with me. And yes, I'm still bitter.

That is the only way to build a team these days (other than the moving part). Be terrible for 3-4 years and hope to get lucky in the draft.

Right, but the only reason they did it that deliberately is because of the moving part. You can't separate the two.

Yeah, in the Seattle situation that is true.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I don't really care about the NBA, but where are they in terms of changing the eligibility requirements from one-year post HS, to two years?

 

[the moops]

There just don't seem to be enough NBA caliber players to go around.

Of course there are.

 

[Daywalker]

There just don't seem to be enough NBA caliber players to go around.

Of course there are.

Mavs not exactly a dream team either.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I don't really care about the NBA, but where are they in terms of changing the eligibility requirements from one-year post HS, to two years?

Low on the list of priorities.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I don't really care about the NBA, but where are they in terms of changing the eligibility requirements from one-year post HS, to two years?

Hopefully this requirement will be challenged in court now that the union is being decertified.

 

[NewlyRetired]

:( :( :(

 

[JMon348]

WE'RE BAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[the moops]

WE'RE BAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Grady Wilson]

As a life long Mavs fan and what transpired over the Summer, this is awesome news. Now, if there was ANY way they could keep Chandler I would be thrilled. Crossing my fingers!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Details?

 

[AcerFC]

Details?

Who caved, owners or playersI have not cared enough to pay attention

 

[Abraham]

Going to start the season on Christmas jUST LikE I SAID!

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Details?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Anyone hear anything about the age min. yet? I'd be surprised if they didn't raise it to 20.

 

[proninja]

Too bad. When there was a chance the NBA could be greatly damaged, I actually had a rooting interest. Now I can go back to being completely ambivalent and ignore it.

 

[Kev4029]

I flipped on NBATV to watch an old Bulls-Pistons game and was disappointing to see it was some boring ### talk show thing. As I was flipping the channel back to what I was watching I caught something about a tentative agreement on the bottom of the screen. I flipped back to NBATV to find we are back! Sweet.

Free agency starts on December 9th, this is gonna be even more condensed than the NFL.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Can anyone find a list of the guys who won't be able to play in the NBA this season because of their contracts with Euro/China teams?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Can anyone find a list of the guys who won't be able to play in the NBA this season because of their contracts with Euro/China teams?

None of those players (or their agents) would be dumb enough to sign contracts that didn't have an out clause if the NBA season came back. Maybe a low end FA or two from Europe, but that would be it.

 

[Eastwood]

Looks age min. age is 20. I think this benefits Kentucky and Duke as much as any college program.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Can anyone find a list of the guys who won't be able to play in the NBA this season because of their contracts with Euro/China teams?

None of those players (or their agents) would be dumb enough to sign contracts that didn't have an out clause if the NBA season came back. Maybe a low end FA or two from Europe, but that would be it.

I thought I heard some decent players were signing contracts without out clauses? Maybe it was just that players were thinking about it and didn't actually do it though.

 

[This_Guy]

Can anyone find a list of the guys who won't be able to play in the NBA this season because of their contracts with Euro/China teams?

None of those players (or their agents) would be dumb enough to sign contracts that didn't have an out clause if the NBA season came back. Maybe a low end FA or two from Europe, but that would be it.

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season. Here is a list of players that signed in China: J.R. Smith, Zhejiang Golden Bulls (Denver Nuggets)Kenyon Martin, Xinjiang Flying Tigers (Denver Nuggets) Wilson Chandler, Zhejiang Lions (Denver Nuggets)Yi Jianlian, Guangdong Southern Tigers (Washington Wizards)Aaron Brooks, Guangdong Southern Tigers (Phoenix Suns)Dan Gadzuric, Jiangsu Dragons (New Jersey Nets)Josh Powell, Liaoning Dinosaurs (Atlanta Hawks)Patty Mills, Xinjiang Flying Tigers (Portland Trail Blazers)Here's a couple of links talking about this:http://shanghaiist.com/2011/11/26/three_denver_nuggets_players_locked.phphttp://espn.go.com/newyork/story/_/page/lockout-111126/analyzing-new-nba-labor-agreement

 

[the moops]

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season.

I doubt this is this case.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season.

I doubt this is this case.

Can speak for the others but doing some research on Aaron Brooks, he's contractually obligated to stay with the Chinese team Guangdong until the end of the season; of which the regular season ends in mid February and the playoffs end sometime in March. And considering Guangdong are the 4 time defending champions of the Chinese league, it looks like Brooks won't be back in the NBA til March.

 

[Bobcat10]

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season.

I doubt this is this case.

Can speak for the others but doing some research on Aaron Brooks, he's contractually obligated to stay with the Chinese team Guangdong until the end of the season; of which the regular season ends in mid February and the playoffs end sometime in March. And considering Guangdong are the 4 time defending champions of the Chinese league, it looks like Brooks won't be back in the NBA til March.

I don't know how much Yen these guys are hauling...but that's gotta be one helluva experience over a number of months in place of 2-3 months of NBA ACTION.

 

[This_Guy]

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season.

I doubt this is this case.

Article on ESPN "The Chinese basketball league would not allow contracts to be signed with these out clauses, and were limited to signing players who were NBA free agents. NBA players who signed in China, such as J.R. Smith and Wilson Chandler, are not expected to return for the start of the NBA season."

 

[biggamer3]

Ok, we're back! Knicks need to offer the Suns future first rounders and Billups for Nash

 

[Grady Wilson]

I have to admit, I haven't kept up much over the past two or three weeks, but what does some think it will take for the Mavs to resign Chandler and Butler? Is the luxury tax so much that even Cuban won't be willing to pay that much?

 

[Premier]

Ok, we're back! Knicks need to offer the Suns future first rounders and Billups for Nash

I'm sure the Suns will be jumping all over that awesome offer.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Can anyone find a list of the guys who won't be able to play in the NBA this season because of their contracts with Euro/China teams?

None of those players (or their agents) would be dumb enough to sign contracts that didn't have an out clause if the NBA season came back. Maybe a low end FA or two from Europe, but that would be it.

I don't think the Chinese leagues would allow opt out clauses. So only NBA free agents could sign in China and now they may be locked into playing all year in China and missing the 2011-2012 NBA season. Here is a list of players that signed in China: J.R. Smith, Zhejiang Golden Bulls (Denver Nuggets)Kenyon Martin, Xinjiang Flying Tigers (Denver Nuggets) Wilson Chandler, Zhejiang Lions (Denver Nuggets)Yi Jianlian, Guangdong Southern Tigers (Washington Wizards)Aaron Brooks, Guangdong Southern Tigers (Phoenix Suns)Dan Gadzuric, Jiangsu Dragons (New Jersey Nets)Josh Powell, Liaoning Dinosaurs (Atlanta Hawks)Patty Mills, Xinjiang Flying Tigers (Portland Trail Blazers)Here's a couple of links talking about this:http://shanghaiist.com/2011/11/26/three_denver_nuggets_players_locked.phphttp://espn.go.com/newyork/story/_/page/lockout-111126/analyzing-new-nba-labor-agreement

Looks like a list of the brightest guys in the NBA. What a horrible decision.

 

[Grady Wilson]

Can someone give me the Cliffs notes version of how the amnesty clause works?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Nba trade deadline will be moved to march allowing teams to sign those players without foreign opt outs and then make their trades (per bucher tweet)

 

[biggamer3]

Does suck that after ten years of Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Howard Eisley, Jared jeffries and others, the nba adopts an amnesty clause and Knicks have no one to use it on

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Does suck that after ten years of Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Howard Eisley, Jared jeffries and others, the nba adopts an amnesty clause and Knicks have no one to use it on

Amare.

 

[Instinctive]

Does suck that after ten years of Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Howard Eisley, Jared jeffries and others, the nba adopts an amnesty clause and Knicks have no one to use it on

Amare.

Couldn't they make a trade with someone like the Magic to get a good player and take a contract, but then use their amnesty clause on that bad contract?

 

[wazoo11]

So no contraction at all?

 

[Abraham]

So no contraction at all?

Was never going to happen.

 

[Abraham]

Does suck that after ten years of Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Howard Eisley, Jared jeffries and others, the nba adopts an amnesty clause and Knicks have no one to use it on

Amare.

Couldn't they make a trade with someone like the Magic to get a good player and take a contract, but then use their amnesty clause on that bad contract?

Trade for arenas and Howard?

 

[Sea Duck]

Summary of deal:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_JqVMjKAfLYNzU3YzVlNDAtMDBlOS00Y2UwLWE5ZTItM2RkZTdjN2FmMzI4