*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[ffldrew]

I highly doubt that the Bulls trade for Anthony. They are notorious for favoring their core group of players and right now Noah and Rose are the core of this team (along with Boozer). I don't see them trading him in a package deal even for Anthony. I also doubt that Denver wants Luol Deng's contract back. About the only thing working here is that the Bulls have a young PF in Taj Gibson who looks like a player and 2 first round draft picks for next year so they have a base to offer up something, but Deng's contract is the stumbling block.

I would put money on the new Nuggets GM ####### this all up by taking on a bad contract like Deng's. He's a rookie GM with tons of pressure to fix this problem, and he was the assistant GM in Toronto for the last few years. The Raptors haven't given out a good contract, made a good draft pick or really done anything right since they drafed Bosh, I think he learned from one of the least succesful GMs in sports I since the Lions dumped Matt Millen a few years back. I figure he's had some say on all these personel choices that Colangelo has made.

Bret Bearup runs the Nuggets front office - the new guy is really just a figurehead. It's why Warkentein and Rex Chapman left.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Although Deng is certainly overpaid, so are most players that aren't superstars, on rookie deals, or ring chasers. He is young enough to still play well in the contract's final years. He is a good defender and a good teammate -- traits you'll get every night (when healthy, of course). The Nuggets could do a lot worse.

 

[Green94]

They are notorious for favoring their core group of players and right now Noah and Rose are the core of this team (along with Boozer).

Exactly, and how far has this gotten them?

 

[Green94]

Bulls interested in Anthony? Talking about dealing Noah and Deng for Anthony. Says Nuggs about taking Deng's contract. I'm not sure this deal makes the Bulls better.

Wouldn't be happy with that deal as a Bulls fan.

You can't be serious.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Bulls interested in Anthony? Talking about dealing Noah and Deng for Anthony. Says Nuggs about taking Deng's contract. I'm not sure this deal makes the Bulls better.

Wouldn't be happy with that deal as a Bulls fan.

You can't be serious.

It does create a gaping hole at center (Thomas is old, Asik too inexperienced) and would have a ripple effect on defense. I think I'd still be in favor of the trade but not by much.

 

[wikkidpissah]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

 

[Green94]

Bulls interested in Anthony? Talking about dealing Noah and Deng for Anthony. Says Nuggs about taking Deng's contract. I'm not sure this deal makes the Bulls better.

Wouldn't be happy with that deal as a Bulls fan.

You can't be serious.

It does create a gaping hole at center (Thomas is old, Asik too inexperienced) and would have a ripple effect on defense. I think I'd still be in favor of the trade but not by much.

Jux - I always respect your NBA opinions... and I agree with you that there is a huge hole at center - but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return. This team as currently constructed isn't going to win a title. They need a go to scorer and Anthony gives them that.

Deng is a wash, that is just money moving from one side to another and James Johnson is a non factor.

Gibson/Noah would be tough to part with, but what you are getting in return far outweighs the value they bring to the team.

 

[Green94]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

Good point.

 

[thecatch]

Although Deng is certainly overpaid, so are most players that aren't superstars, on rookie deals, or ring chasers. He is young enough to still play well in the contract's final years. He is a good defender and a good teammate -- traits you'll get every night (when healthy, of course). The Nuggets could do a lot worse.

I'd have trouble imagining a legit deal where the Nuggets would do worse. Deng has very little to no upside from where he's at now, and he's got a terrible contract. I don't think the Nuggets would remain much a contender in the West after that deal, so it's not like there's much short term upside either. I'd much rather let Anthony walk.

 

[Courtjester]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

I agree but any deal that goes down is going to be totally based on Anthony signing an extension with Denver and then a sign and trade or Anthony agreeing to sign with said team. No one is going to give the Nuggets a bunch of players and picks just to rent Anthony for a year.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Bulls interested in Anthony? Talking about dealing Noah and Deng for Anthony. Says Nuggs about taking Deng's contract. I'm not sure this deal makes the Bulls better.

Wouldn't be happy with that deal as a Bulls fan.

You can't be serious.

It does create a gaping hole at center (Thomas is old, Asik too inexperienced) and would have a ripple effect on defense. I think I'd still be in favor of the trade but not by much.

Jux - I always respect your NBA opinions... and I agree with you that there is a huge hole at center - but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return. This team as currently constructed isn't going to win a title. They need a go to scorer and Anthony gives them that.

Deng is a wash, that is just money moving from one side to another and James Johnson is a non factor.

Gibson/Noah would be tough to part with, but what you are getting in return far outweighs the value they bring to the team.

Agreed. This is why I think I would favor the trade. However, without Noah, I don't think the Anthony-Rose-Boozer trio could beat Miami or the Lakers. If the Bulls play hardball, it's possible they could get Carmelo without giving up Noah midseason. This possibility might be worth the gamble. Noah-Boozer-Anthony-anybody-Rose is one hell of a lineup.

 

[wikkidpissah]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

I agree but any deal that goes down is going to be totally based on Anthony signing an extension with Denver and then a sign and trade or Anthony agreeing to sign with said team. No one is going to give the Nuggets a bunch of players and picks just to rent Anthony for a year.

Oh, they'll only get as much as Deng/Gibson/Johson IF Melo signs the 3yr. I'd guess his non-sign value at prospect/pick/contract relief.

 

[the moops]

but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return.

I like Melo, but I am not sure he is a top 5 player in the league. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Howard, Paul, and Wade are all clearly superior players, IMO. And after them, there are players that have as much stake to the top of the next tier as Melo does (Deron, Nowitzki, Roy, Gasol and a few more I may be forgetting).

 

[Juxtatarot]

Although Deng is certainly overpaid, so are most players that aren't superstars, on rookie deals, or ring chasers. He is young enough to still play well in the contract's final years. He is a good defender and a good teammate -- traits you'll get every night (when healthy, of course). The Nuggets could do a lot worse.

I'd have trouble imagining a legit deal where the Nuggets would do worse. Deng has very little to no upside from where he's at now, and he's got a terrible contract. I don't think the Nuggets would remain much a contender in the West after that deal, so it's not like there's much short term upside either. I'd much rather let Anthony walk.

Well, about the bolded part, Deng seems close to developing a consistent 3 point shot. That's decent upside. Of course, we'll see in time.Letting Carmelo walk and, thus, gaining cap space is highly overrated. This usually just leaves a team with the ability to overpay free agents. The Nuggets have a better chance of making out like a 2009 under-the-cap Pistons team than getting great free agent value. Again, they could do a lot worse than Deng. If they could add Noah and/or Gibson and/or picks, the Nuggets would certainly be better off in the long run.

 

[Kev4029]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

I agree but any deal that goes down is going to be totally based on Anthony signing an extension with Denver and then a sign and trade or Anthony agreeing to sign with said team. No one is going to give the Nuggets a bunch of players and picks just to rent Anthony for a year.

Oh, they'll only get as much as Deng/Gibson/Johson IF Melo signs the 3yr. I'd guess his non-sign value at prospect/pick/contract relief.

I would rather have 17 million dollars in cap space than Deng and his bad contract and Gibson and Johnson. I said this when this was all starting to go down a month or so ago, the only way the Nuggets can really #### this up is by taking on a bad contract. If they let Melo walk for nothing (which is unlikely, they would still get a little something a year from now in a sign and trade) they can look to trade or release Billups (3.7 million of like 14 guaranteed next year) hope that Nene opts out of his final year and they could be looking at around 15 million dollar TOTAL in salary next year. If they don't get a good share of young potential and draft picks between now and the February trade deadline for Melo they should hold onto him until AFTER July 1st and figure things out with the new CBA.A local radio guy here in Denver (Sandy Clough) suggested this trade a couple weeks ago which I though was a good trade:Melo for Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.Who turns that down (other than Melo)?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Melo for Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.Who turns that down (other than Melo)?

Sterling.

 

[Green94]

but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return.

I like Melo, but I am not sure he is a top 5 player in the league. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Howard, Paul, and Wade are all clearly superior players, IMO. And after them, there are players that have as much stake to the top of the next tier as Melo does (Deron, Nowitzki, Roy, Gasol and a few more I may be forgetting).

I'll give you the first three, no doubt, I think Melo is 4. No chance those other 3 guys are "superior" to Anthony.

 

[the moops]

but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return.

I like Melo, but I am not sure he is a top 5 player in the league. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Howard, Paul, and Wade are all clearly superior players, IMO. And after them, there are players that have as much stake to the top of the next tier as Melo does (Deron, Nowitzki, Roy, Gasol and a few more I may be forgetting).

I'll give you the first three, no doubt, I think Melo is 4. No chance those other 3 guys are "superior" to Anthony.

You think Melo is better than Wade?

 

[Green94]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

 

[the moops]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Crazy talk

 

[Kev4029]

but we are talking about getting a top 5 player in return.

I like Melo, but I am not sure he is a top 5 player in the league. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Howard, Paul, and Wade are all clearly superior players, IMO. And after them, there are players that have as much stake to the top of the next tier as Melo does (Deron, Nowitzki, Roy, Gasol and a few more I may be forgetting).

I don't think Durant offer anything more than Melo right now, by next season he may be clearly superior, but right now I think they are VERY similar. If Melo was playing on a team without another good scorer he would be putting up 30 ppg too.Kobe is the better defender, better passer, lesser scorer, lesser rebounder and an inferior athlete. Like Durant, I think Melo and Kobe are VERY similar but Kobe is on the way down and Melo is on the way up.Howard is a great defender and rebounder, but his offensive game is still in the process of being much more than dunks. I think he is a slightly better player than Melo, but I imagine that the gap will grow larger over the next 2 or 3 years.Paul, Wade, and Lebron are all far better players. I would say Melo is at best 5th best player in the NBA, and at worst 7th best player, so if somebody says hes a top 5 player that shouldn't raise any eyebrows.ETA: He went 5th overall in our Build A Basketball Franchise.

 

[Green94]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Crazy talk

ok

 

[Kev4029]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Hmmm, I probably like Melo more than most, but this is absurd. Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.Are you a Nuggets homer, or just a Melo fan?

 

[Juxtatarot]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Crazy talk

ok

I don't think it's crazy talk but Wade plays better defense and seems to be a better team leader. I'd go with him.

 

[Green94]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Hmmm, I probably like Melo more than most, but this is absurd. Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.Are you a Nuggets homer, or just a Melo fan?

I love Wade, but Kobe is far better than Wade.I could care less about the Nuggets and don't really care about Melo much either to be honest.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.

Kobe down?

 

[Green94]

I don't think it's crazy talk but Wade plays better defense and seems to be a better team leader. I'd go with him.

Absolutely, and Wade is a far better slasher. I don't have percentages, but I would think Melo is a better perimeter shooter.I don't think it is crazy at all to flip flop Wade/Anthony if you are putting together top 10's.

 

[Kev4029]

You think Melo is better than Wade?

Yes.

Hmmm, I probably like Melo more than most, but this is absurd. Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.Are you a Nuggets homer, or just a Melo fan?

I love Wade, but Kobe is far better than Wade.I could care less about the Nuggets and don't really care about Melo much either to be honest.

Dwayne Wade has been a better player than Kobe since probably 2005 (with the exception of 07-08 when he was hurt). There really isn't one aspect of the NBA game than Kobe excels at more than Wade (other than 3 point shooting), and I believe it was Wade in LA for the last half decade people would be talking about Wade as the best player since Jordan not Kobe or Lebron.

 

[Kev4029]

Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.

Kobe down?

Without bringing up championships, give me one reason Kobe is the better player.

 

[Green94]

I don't think Durant offer anything more than Melo right now, by next season he may be clearly superior, but right now I think they are VERY similar. If Melo was playing on a team without another good scorer he would be putting up 30 ppg too.

I completely disagree with this also... Durant is the future of the NBA. He will be jockeying with LeBron for the number 1 ranking for years to come.

 

[Kev4029]

I don't think it's crazy talk but Wade plays better defense and seems to be a better team leader. I'd go with him.

Absolutely, and Wade is a far better slasher. I don't have percentages, but I would think Melo is a better perimeter shooter.I don't think it is crazy at all to flip flop Wade/Anthony if you are putting together top 10's.

They are pretty damn equal, Melo is small percentage points better both as a mid range shooter and a 3 point shooter.Here is a neat site for shooting.

 

[Courtjester]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

I agree but any deal that goes down is going to be totally based on Anthony signing an extension with Denver and then a sign and trade or Anthony agreeing to sign with said team. No one is going to give the Nuggets a bunch of players and picks just to rent Anthony for a year.

Oh, they'll only get as much as Deng/Gibson/Johson IF Melo signs the 3yr. I'd guess his non-sign value at prospect/pick/contract relief.

I would rather have 17 million dollars in cap space than Deng and his bad contract and Gibson and Johnson. I said this when this was all starting to go down a month or so ago, the only way the Nuggets can really #### this up is by taking on a bad contract. If they let Melo walk for nothing (which is unlikely, they would still get a little something a year from now in a sign and trade) they can look to trade or release Billups (3.7 million of like 14 guaranteed next year) hope that Nene opts out of his final year and they could be looking at around 15 million dollar TOTAL in salary next year. If they don't get a good share of young potential and draft picks between now and the February trade deadline for Melo they should hold onto him until AFTER July 1st and figure things out with the new CBA.A local radio guy here in Denver (Sandy Clough) suggested this trade a couple weeks ago which I though was a good trade:Melo for Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.Who turns that down (other than Melo)?

Add in the 17 million that comes off the books after this year due to K-Mart's bad deal and then the 12 milions that comes off for Nene the following, this team really has no one signed other Harrington. So this team is really in good shape if they do not take on a Deng type deal.I stand by what I posted earlier, picks, picks and more picks for Melo--that's it. Management doesn't need to be shy. Come out and say, "We are having a full-on rebuliding year." We, as the fans, can respect that. Don't try and pull a smoke and mirrors idea that a team devoid of stars is going to magically contend with the Lakers in the West.

 

[Kev4029]

I don't think Durant offer anything more than Melo right now, by next season he may be clearly superior, but right now I think they are VERY similar. If Melo was playing on a team without another good scorer he would be putting up 30 ppg too.

I completely disagree with this also... Durant is the future of the NBA. He will be jockeying with LeBron for the number 1 ranking for years to come.

I don't disagree with that, but right now I don't think there is a difference in talent/performance. In 5 years I think Durant will be the best player in the NBA.

 

[Green94]

I don't think Durant offer anything more than Melo right now, by next season he may be clearly superior, but right now I think they are VERY similar. If Melo was playing on a team without another good scorer he would be putting up 30 ppg too.

I completely disagree with this also... Durant is the future of the NBA. He will be jockeying with LeBron for the number 1 ranking for years to come.

I don't disagree with that, but right now I don't think there is a difference in talent/performance. In 5 years I think Durant will be the best player in the NBA.

We agree on something! Although it might not take that long.

 

[Green94]

I don't think it's crazy talk but Wade plays better defense and seems to be a better team leader. I'd go with him.

Absolutely, and Wade is a far better slasher. I don't have percentages, but I would think Melo is a better perimeter shooter.I don't think it is crazy at all to flip flop Wade/Anthony if you are putting together top 10's.

They are pretty damn equal, Melo is small percentage points better both as a mid range shooter and a 3 point shooter.Here is a neat site for shooting.

Interesting... thanks.

 

[Kev4029]

You guys are waaay overestimating the trade value of a player with a year left who has made it clear he wont re-up & is trying to engineer his escape. NOBODY is gonna pay a premium. Deng, the 2 PFs they drafted last yr, future exceptions and/or considerations is all theyre gonna get & other teams wont offer much more.

I agree but any deal that goes down is going to be totally based on Anthony signing an extension with Denver and then a sign and trade or Anthony agreeing to sign with said team. No one is going to give the Nuggets a bunch of players and picks just to rent Anthony for a year.

Oh, they'll only get as much as Deng/Gibson/Johson IF Melo signs the 3yr. I'd guess his non-sign value at prospect/pick/contract relief.

I would rather have 17 million dollars in cap space than Deng and his bad contract and Gibson and Johnson. I said this when this was all starting to go down a month or so ago, the only way the Nuggets can really #### this up is by taking on a bad contract. If they let Melo walk for nothing (which is unlikely, they would still get a little something a year from now in a sign and trade) they can look to trade or release Billups (3.7 million of like 14 guaranteed next year) hope that Nene opts out of his final year and they could be looking at around 15 million dollar TOTAL in salary next year. If they don't get a good share of young potential and draft picks between now and the February trade deadline for Melo they should hold onto him until AFTER July 1st and figure things out with the new CBA.A local radio guy here in Denver (Sandy Clough) suggested this trade a couple weeks ago which I though was a good trade:Melo for Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.Who turns that down (other than Melo)?

Add in the 17 million that comes off the books after this year due to K-Mart's bad deal and then the 12 milions that comes off for Nene the following, this team really has no one signed other Harrington. So this team is really in good shape if they do not take on a Deng type deal.I stand by what I posted earlier, picks, picks and more picks for Melo--that's it. Management doesn't need to be shy. Come out and say, "We are having a full-on rebuliding year." We, as the fans, can respect that. Don't try and pull a smoke and mirrors idea that a team devoid of stars is going to magically contend with the Lakers in the West.

Nene could very possibly opt out of his contract if he can improve his numbers a little. He'll be 29 by the start of next season, and that sounds a whole lot better than 30 if you are offering a 5 year 50 million dollar contract to a big man.The Nuggs do have Birdman for 3/13.5 after this year too, but they may be able to include him with any Melo trade. And something that nobody ever mentions about the Harrington deal, the last two years are only half guaranteed, so if he completely flames during or before year 3 they are only on the hook for about 7.3 million split over those last two years.

 

[No. 16]

Mrs. LeBron Wade Blog

IMO, The perfect nickname for LBJ. Have to love the logo as well.

 

[No. 16]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

 

[EasyMorningRebel]

Mrs. LeBron Wade Blog

IMO, The perfect nickname for LBJ. Have to love the logo as well.

This post should get more love during the season. I will try to remember to bump it as often as I can.

 

[No. 16]

Mrs. LeBron Wade Blog

IMO, The perfect nickname for LBJ. Have to love the logo as well.

This post should get more love during the season. I will try to remember to bump it as often as I can.

So close to changing my avatar to LBJ in wedding dress.

 

[the moops]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

It's plain as day that he is the worst of the 4? He finished 4th in only 2 of the 11 categories you listed? It averages out to slightly under 3rd place in all the combined categories.I agree that he is 4th out of those 4, but those stats certainly don't paint the picture of plain as day.

 

[No. 16]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

It's plain as day that he is the worst of the 4? He finished 4th in only 2 of the 11 categories you listed? It averages out to slightly under 3rd place in all the combined categories.I agree that he is 4th out of those 4, but those stats certainly don't paint the picture of plain as day.

Aside from PPG, FT%, TO%, and rebounding Melo was 3rd or 4th. Rebounding is the only non-scoring aspect that Melo ranks higher than 3rd and while he has the fewest TOs he ranks only 3rd in assists. When you breakdown his supposed strength of "scoring" further I think the stats show that Carmelo is nothing more than a volume scorer. He has the gaudy PPG but that is a result of him ranking #1 in FGA despite ranking 3rd or 4th in FG%, eFG%, TS%. I will give credit to Melo at least he minimizes his 3 point shots and takes advantage of his very good FT, but aside from that his overall FG% is nothing special.

Maybe I should have put the "plain as day comment" after my justifications (inferior defender to Kobe/Wade and inferior scorer + defensive stat padder to Durant), because the stats were just meant to show that Melo's offensive game is overrated due to the fact that he scores so many points. When you consider that, his lackluster defense, and inefficiency compared to Durant it's plain as day that Melo's the 4th best.

 

[Kev4029]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

It's plain as day that he is the worst of the 4? He finished 4th in only 2 of the 11 categories you listed? It averages out to slightly under 3rd place in all the combined categories.I agree that he is 4th out of those 4, but those stats certainly don't paint the picture of plain as day.

Aside from PPG, FT%, TO%, and rebounding Melo was 3rd or 4th. Rebounding is the only non-scoring aspect that Melo ranks higher than 3rd and while he has the fewest TOs he ranks only 3rd in assists. When you breakdown his supposed strength of "scoring" further I think the stats show that Carmelo is nothing more than a volume scorer. He has the gaudy PPG but that is a result of him ranking #1 in FGA despite ranking 3rd or 4th in FG%, eFG%, TS%. I will give credit to Melo at least he minimizes his 3 point shots and takes advantage of his very good FT, but aside from that his overall FG% is nothing special.

Maybe I should have put the "plain as day comment" after my justifications (inferior defender to Kobe/Wade and inferior scorer + defensive stat padder to Durant), because the stats were just meant to show that Melo's offensive game is overrated due to the fact that he scores so many points. When you consider that, his lackluster defense, and inefficiency compared to Durant it's plain as day that Melo's the 4th best.

Without looking at the stats I'm guessing Wade runs away in some of these statstical categories, but throw up the numbers to compare him to Durant and Kobe. I'm guessing Melo slightly under performs Durant, but is nearly identical to Kobe.

 

[No. 16]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

It's plain as day that he is the worst of the 4? He finished 4th in only 2 of the 11 categories you listed? It averages out to slightly under 3rd place in all the combined categories.I agree that he is 4th out of those 4, but those stats certainly don't paint the picture of plain as day.

Aside from PPG, FT%, TO%, and rebounding Melo was 3rd or 4th. Rebounding is the only non-scoring aspect that Melo ranks higher than 3rd and while he has the fewest TOs he ranks only 3rd in assists. When you breakdown his supposed strength of "scoring" further I think the stats show that Carmelo is nothing more than a volume scorer. He has the gaudy PPG but that is a result of him ranking #1 in FGA despite ranking 3rd or 4th in FG%, eFG%, TS%. I will give credit to Melo at least he minimizes his 3 point shots and takes advantage of his very good FT, but aside from that his overall FG% is nothing special.

Maybe I should have put the "plain as day comment" after my justifications (inferior defender to Kobe/Wade and inferior scorer + defensive stat padder to Durant), because the stats were just meant to show that Melo's offensive game is overrated due to the fact that he scores so many points. When you consider that, his lackluster defense, and inefficiency compared to Durant it's plain as day that Melo's the 4th best.

Without looking at the stats I'm guessing Wade runs away in some of these statstical categories, but throw up the numbers to compare him to Durant and Kobe. I'm guessing Melo slightly under performs Durant, but is nearly identical to Kobe.

Click the link I posted....vs Kobe - In regards to scoring numbers Melo is nearly identical to Kobe but putting up points is only part of the game. Melo is a better rebounder compared to Kobe, but Kobe is a better passer. So when you factor scoring, rebounds, assists, and TO... Kobe and Melo are roughly the same player. Where the player comparison goes to Kobe is in regard to the defensive end and Kobe is WAAAAAY better than Melo even at his advanced age. Kobe = volume scorer + elite defender. Melo = volume scorer only.

vs Durant -

Melo vs Durant

On defense they are roughly the same player IMO. Neither are bad man to man defenders, but they are far from lock down NBA defenders. Both can rebound well for SF position and both steal the ball the same, but Durant averages 1 block per game. However, where Melo and Kobe were similar on offense, but worlds apart on the defensive end, the inverse is true for Melo in regards to Durant. Both are roughly the same on defense, but on offense Durant is waaaaay better.

PPG - Durant - 30.1 vs 28.2

FG% - Durant - 47.6 vs 45.8 (League Avg - 44.6, STD 4.7)

FT% - Durant - 90.0 vs 83.0

eFG% - Durant - 51.4 vs 47.8 (League Avg - 47.9, STD 4.4)

TS% - Durant - 60.7 vs 54.8 (League Avg - 52.3, STD 4.5)

So Melo doesn't "slightly under performs" Durant's numbers he is significantly below Durant.

Durant's 30.1 ppg are scored at nearly 2 STD above the league average compared to Melo's 28.2 at less than 1 STD below league average. So Melo = volume scorer only, Durant = Volume + Elite efficiency as a scorer.

Thus... Kobe/Wade/Durant >> Melo

If you asked me to rank them for next season only I would....

1) Wade > 2) Kobe = Durant 4) >> Melo.

Again, Melo is not spectacular in any way other than having the talent/ability to create shots (something I believe stat heads underestimate). Everything else, even making shots, Melo is roughly average at. Kobe, Wade, Durant, and other superstars can impact the game in another facet other than scoring and that's the type of players you want as a center piece for a team (ie. NOT Melo).

 

[Kev4029]

Carmelo is OVER RATED! He's nothing more than a volume scorer.

Melo vs Wade vs Durant vs Kobe 09-10 Season

Between those 4 players Melo ranks:

PPG- 2nd

FG%:FGA - 3rd:1st

3pt%:3PTA - 3rd:4th

FT%:FTA - 2nd:3rd

TS% - 3rd vs 1st in FGA + 3rd in FTA

eFG% - 4th vs 1st FGA

USG% - 2nd

REB: 2nd

AST:TO- 3rd:1st (lowest TO)

STL: 4th

BLK: 3rd

So it's plain as day to me that Carmelo is the worst overall player of the 4. He's an inferior defender compared to Kobe Bryant and Wade and while Durant is an average man to man defender like Melo, Durant averages more rebounds, stls, blks WHILE scoring MORE points per game AND doing it more efficiently (FG, TS, eFG, FT)!

Melo is still an All*Star but he's closer to Joe Johnson level All*Star than a superstar like Kobe, Durant, Wade, or LBJ like people make him out to be. Again if I'm a GM, I pay superstar money to a guy who can make an impact in scoring AND some other facet of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc). Max level money to volume scorers is the path Conference Finals at best.

It's plain as day that he is the worst of the 4? He finished 4th in only 2 of the 11 categories you listed? It averages out to slightly under 3rd place in all the combined categories.I agree that he is 4th out of those 4, but those stats certainly don't paint the picture of plain as day.

Aside from PPG, FT%, TO%, and rebounding Melo was 3rd or 4th. Rebounding is the only non-scoring aspect that Melo ranks higher than 3rd and while he has the fewest TOs he ranks only 3rd in assists. When you breakdown his supposed strength of "scoring" further I think the stats show that Carmelo is nothing more than a volume scorer. He has the gaudy PPG but that is a result of him ranking #1 in FGA despite ranking 3rd or 4th in FG%, eFG%, TS%. I will give credit to Melo at least he minimizes his 3 point shots and takes advantage of his very good FT, but aside from that his overall FG% is nothing special.

Maybe I should have put the "plain as day comment" after my justifications (inferior defender to Kobe/Wade and inferior scorer + defensive stat padder to Durant), because the stats were just meant to show that Melo's offensive game is overrated due to the fact that he scores so many points. When you consider that, his lackluster defense, and inefficiency compared to Durant it's plain as day that Melo's the 4th best.

Without looking at the stats I'm guessing Wade runs away in some of these statstical categories, but throw up the numbers to compare him to Durant and Kobe. I'm guessing Melo slightly under performs Durant, but is nearly identical to Kobe.

Click the link I posted....vs Kobe - In regards to scoring numbers Melo is nearly identical to Kobe but putting up points is only part of the game. Melo is a better rebounder compared to Kobe, but Kobe is a better passer. So when you factor scoring, rebounds, assists, and TO... Kobe and Melo are roughly the same player. Where the player comparison goes to Kobe is in regard to the defensive end and Kobe is WAAAAAY better than Melo even at his advanced age. Kobe = volume scorer + elite defender. Melo = volume scorer only.

vs Durant -

Melo vs Durant

On defense they are roughly the same player IMO. Neither are bad man to man defenders, but they are far from lock down NBA defenders. Both can rebound well for SF position and both steal the ball the same, but Durant averages 1 block per game. However, where Melo and Kobe were similar on offense, but worlds apart on the defensive end, the inverse is true for Melo in regards to Durant. Both are roughly the same on defense, but on offense Durant is waaaaay better.

PPG - Durant - 30.1 vs 28.2

FG% - Durant - 47.6 vs 45.8 (League Avg - 44.6, STD 4.7)

FT% - Durant - 90.0 vs 83.0

eFG% - Durant - 51.4 vs 47.8 (League Avg - 47.9, STD 4.4)

TS% - Durant - 60.7 vs 54.8 (League Avg - 52.3, STD 4.5)

So Melo doesn't "slightly under performs" Durant's numbers he is significantly below Durant.

Durant's 30.1 ppg are scored at nearly 2 STD above the league average compared to Melo's 28.2 at less than 1 STD below league average. So Melo = volume scorer only, Durant = Volume + Elite efficiency as a scorer.

Thus... Kobe/Wade/Durant >> Melo

If you asked me to rank them for next season only I would....

1) Wade > 2) Kobe = Durant 4) >> Melo.

Again, Melo is not spectacular in any way other than having the talent/ability to create shots (something I believe stat heads underestimate). Everything else, even making shots, Melo is roughly average at. Kobe, Wade, Durant, and other superstars can impact the game in another facet other than scoring and that's the type of players you want as a center piece for a team (ie. NOT Melo).

I didn't see the link, I was checking this out on my phone earlier. I'll take a look.I appreciate the discussion, this is good stuff.

ETA: Although a small sample size, check out the playoffs at the bottom of the link. That just reaffirms my belief that Wade is a far better player right now than the other three and is a run away for the second best player in the league. Wade kills it in the playoffs

ETA2: On your ranking for next year I think you are underrating the drop off Kobe is going to continue to have for the rest of his career. Kobe was straight out of high school and has a ton of mileage. Garnett turned 32 before the 2008-2009 season and that is when he began his big slide, and it wasn't due to a lack of conditioning or preparation or desire. Knowing that a slide should be coming, combined with the decline in FA attemps (7.6,7.0,5.9,5.6 per 36 the last 4 years), declining shooting percentages at the hoop (.624, .622, .552 over the last three years) and the fact that his finger is probably never getting better and may get worse, I think we could see a Kobe that is a shadow of his former self in a couple years, much like Garnett.

 

[No. 16]

I didn't see the link, I was checking this out on my phone earlier. I'll take a look.I appreciate the discussion, this is good stuff.ETA: Although a small sample size, check out the playoffs at the bottom of the link. That just reaffirms my belief that Wade is a far better player right now than the other three and is a run away for the second best player in the league. Wade kills it in the playoffsETA2: On your ranking for next year I think you are underrating the drop off Kobe is going to continue to have for the rest of his career. Kobe was straight out of high school and has a ton of mileage. Garnett turned 32 before the 2008-2009 season and that is when he began his big slide, and it wasn't due to a lack of conditioning or preparation or desire. Knowing that a slide should be coming, combined with the decline in FA attemps (7.6,7.0,5.9,5.6 per 36 the last 4 years), declining shooting percentages at the hoop (.624, .622, .552 over the last three years) and the fact that his finger is probably never getting better and may get worse, I think we could see a Kobe that is a shadow of his former self in a couple years, much like Garnett.

Agreed on Wade. Regarding Kobe, his offense may suffer but I haven't noticed much loss in his athleticism that will significantly impact his defense which still remains very good. If forced to pick I'd take Durant over Kobe, but unless Durant makes mega strides in his defense next year (a possibility), I could see how one could argue Kobe with his experience and defense is as good as Durant.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Wade is as close to Micheal Jordan in talent as probably any shooting guard ever.

Kobe down?

Without bringing up championships, give me one reason Kobe is the better player.

GB you folks that want to have discussions only under your terms. People like you aren't worth giving a reason to

:diehard Heat fan:

 

[Major]

Probably a little late here but have you guys been watching the World Basketball Championship? That Argentina v. Brasil game was something else. Probably one of the more exciting games I've seen in a while. Scola was so clutch. Brooks to Scola this season is going to bring back memories of Stockton to Malone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_spor...all/8978557.stm

*game highlights @ 1:30

 

[Kev4029]

Probably a little late here but have you guys been watching the World Basketball Championship? That Argentina v. Brasil game was something else. Probably one of the more exciting games I've seen in a while. Scola was so clutch. Brooks to Scola this season is going to bring back memories of Stockton to Malone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_spor...all/8978557.stm

*game highlights @ 1:30

I like you.I'm pretty sure you're joking when you say stuff like this, but I think also in the back of your head you kind of believe it. Probably more so other comments than this one, but I think you still see very special things coming from that duo.

 

[Ryno]

Adelman doesn't get enough credit. Every season I am surprised what he can do with limited amount of healthy talent on that Rockets team.