Sammy3469
Footballguy
The other factor that isn't getting said is that proposed 4 team deal added about 9 million (4.5 in salary and 4.5 in luxury tax) to Denver's payroll this year. No way they are doing that.
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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (7 Viewers)
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The other factor that isn't getting said is that proposed 4 team deal added about 9 million (4.5 in salary and 4.5 in luxury tax) to Denver's payroll this year. No way they are doing that.Was thinking the same thing.He has a NCAA title. Denver has been in the discussion the past three seasons. He's considered a great closer. He's 26.He is a guy who could be a building block on a championship team.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i imagine that NJ is looking for a team with a trade exemption to partner with on this.
Mile High
Footballguy
Looks like they are
As talks on a four-way deal that included Utah and Charlotte lost momentum on Monday, Denver and New Jersey were constructing contingency plans with several other teams to try to keep alive hopes of a trade that would send Carmelo Anthony(notes) to the Nets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
New Jersey and Denver were moving from including Utah’s Andrei Kirilenko(notes) and Charlotte’s Boris Diaw(notes) in the trade packages, front-office sources said, and trying to find trade partners in both the Eastern and Western conferences. Denver and New Jersey were trying to line up new scenarios that still would result with Anthony in New Jersey and Derrick Favors(notes) and Nets draft picks in Denver, sources said.
The four-team trade fell apart when Denver kept trying to include more of its players in deals to spare themselves a bigger luxury-tax bill that would’ve come with the arrivals of Kirilenko and Favors, sources said. The proposed trade would have added $4.5 million in salary to their payroll plus another $4.5 million in luxury tax.
Sources say that the Nuggets have strong interest in trying to do a deal with Philadelphia that included swingman Andre Iguodala, but the Sixers’ inability to get a commitment out of Anthony that he would sign a contract extension with them made the point moot.
One of the biggest obstacles with cutting a deal with the Nuggets, league executives said, continues to be the peculiar and unclear power structure of the Denver front office. What had been the case under the previous regime has carried over with new vice president of basketball operations Masai Ujiri, the owner’s son, Josh Kroenke, and adviser Bret Bearup: No one talking to the Nuggets is sure who’s in charge, who’s making the decision and who can get everyone in agreement.
Anthony arrived at Denver’s training camp for media day on Monday, but didn’t engage in much of the normal promotional shots for the team’s Altitude television network and game-night operations, a league source said.
The Nuggets star had hoped a deal would’ve been in place before he reported for the start of camp, a league source said, but decided against openly criticizing the organization in his media remarks. Instead, he was noncommittal about his future in Denver. He can become a free agent at the end of the season and so far has rejected a three-year, $65 million contract extension.
“There’s been a lot of speculation, a lot of rumors going on this summer about where I’m going to end up, the Nuggets want to trade me, I want to be traded,” Anthony said. “That’s for my team and front office to discuss. I’m here to focus on basketball and training camp.”
Meanwhile, the uncertainty that’s surrounding teams involved in the talks is starting to take a predictable toll on egos and emotions at training camps. Even if a deal for Anthony never materializes, New Jersey coach Avery Johnson has serious repairs to make with Nets point guard Devin Harris(notes), a league source told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.
Harris had been a huge advocate for Johnson with former Nets officials by endorsing the hiring of Johnson over the summer, and a source says Harris is feeling “a little put off” that the coach is so quickly looking to send him out of New Jersey as part of a trade for Anthony.
As part of the original four-team trade proposal, Harris was destined for Charlotte and wasn’t terribly enthusiastic about the move. And that was especially true after Johnson had spent the summer selling Harris so hard on how much he needed him to help sell the coach’s program in New Jersey.
Johnson and Harris had an up-and-down relationship in Dallas, but Harris believed the Nets desperately needed Johnson’s discipline and structure, and pushed hard with former president Rod Thorn for Johnson’s hiring. Harris, 27, came to the Nets in 2008 as part of the Jason Kidd(notes) trade with Dallas. He had his best season as a pro in 2008-09 when he averaged 21.3 points and 6.9 assists.
Yahoo! Sports’ NBA reporter Marc J. Spears contributed to this story.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Deadline set....good job Nets - take it or leave it and move on!
A source tells Al Iannazzone to expect a resolution to the Melo-drama in the next 24 hours. The Nets, clearly frustrated with the Nuggets' delays in deciding what to do with Carmelo Anthony and worried about how their own players are handling it, want a yes or no from Denver. And they're willing to walk away from the bargaining table should they not get an answer soon.
A source tells Al Iannazzone to expect a resolution to the Melo-drama in the next 24 hours. The Nets, clearly frustrated with the Nuggets' delays in deciding what to do with Carmelo Anthony and worried about how their own players are handling it, want a yes or no from Denver. And they're willing to walk away from the bargaining table should they not get an answer soon.
No. 16
Footballguy
If you're building a championship team around Carmelo, he better be the 3rd wheel. He'll probably be the best scorer, but he'll likely be the 3rd best all-around player unless he greatly improves his defense, rebounding, and/or passing. There's not part of his game that's above average except for his scoring and "clutchness."Name me a championship team where the lead dog was ONLY exceptional at scoring? Isiah. Jordan. Magic. Hakeem. Duncan. Shaq. Kobe. All these guys made an impact in the game in scoring AND another facet. Building a championship team around a pure scorer, won't cut it. I would take Melo over JJ, but if you think about the NBA stars in tiers Melo is not in the same tier as: LBJ, Howard, Durant, Kobe, Paul. He belongs near the top of a tier that includes JJ, Paul Pierce, Brandon Roy, etc. He's good, but he's not that good.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think the Nets are thinking a core of Melo-Chris Paul-Lopez is their best case blue print
Kev4029
Footballguy
If that happens in two years, the Nets IMO will be the best team in the NBA by a good amount. I see very good things for Lopez in the future, and I think Paul and Melo are both on the way up still.
No. 16
Footballguy
That could work. Melo is what he is already. Only hopes of them being a championship team is if Lopez becomes a dominant rebounder/defender. Right now he's only average at the defensive end aside from getting blocks.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Melo is still improving, he was the mvp of the first third to half of the season. Against what you think, Melo is a good rebounder and scoring 30ish ppg isn't something that many people can do so discarding that as he is just a guy that scores is selling him short. He scores nearly as well as any non center ever.
ffldrew
Footballguy
This deal for the Nets is like dealing with a really hot looking #####-tease chick - you've been shot down a number of times and sworn off it ......yet the next time she walks in the bar you are buying her drinks. This is the deal and name player that puts the new owner of the Nets and Jay-Z on the map - they will do what it takes in the end no matter how long they wait.Kiddnets said:
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
You may be right but its important for them to publicly says thats it and get back to business.....if Denver comes back with a signed off offer in the future I'm sure they would consider it but they cant keep up this craziness
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Deal off - good luck Melo/Denver....at least we can move on - if they call again King should make it a lesser offer IMO
No Deal - For The Time Being
Carmelo Anthony won’t be wearing a Nets’ uniform, at least for the time being.
An NBA source with knowledge of the discussions said the widely reported four-team trade that featured Denver, Utah and Charlotte is off and that Anthony would be staying with the Nuggets. For how long, though, remains to be seen.
Nets general manager Billy King issued a deadline of today for the Nuggets to decide whether they wanted to trade Anthony. As has been the case all along, the Nuggets weren’t ready to pull the trigger on a deal so the Nets backed out.
In the original proposed four-team trade, the Nets were sending Derrick Favors and two future first-round picks to Denver, Devin Harris to Charlotte and Quinton Ross to Utah. In return the Nets were getting Anthony.
The Nuggets also were going to receive Andrei Kirilenko from the Jazz, who would get Boris Diaw from Charlotte.
As the days passed, Utah and Charlotte had reservations about being in the deal and the Nets also felt they were being hung out to dry by the Nuggets and their indecisiveness.
The Nets want to concentrate on the team that they have after six practices with the cloud of uncertainity of their heads.
Anthony was at Nuggets’ practice today. Denver remains hopeful it can convince Anthony to stay in the organization and sign a three-year $65 million contract extension that’s been on the table since June.
If Anthony’s camp pushes for a trade, the Nuggets could call the Nets and try to resume talks. This was the best deal the Nuggets were offered. But if that happens, the Nets could take a harder stance and offer less after the way this has been handled by Denver.
In all likelihood, a deal gets done it could involve different players and different teams.
No Deal - For The Time Being
Carmelo Anthony won’t be wearing a Nets’ uniform, at least for the time being.
An NBA source with knowledge of the discussions said the widely reported four-team trade that featured Denver, Utah and Charlotte is off and that Anthony would be staying with the Nuggets. For how long, though, remains to be seen.
Nets general manager Billy King issued a deadline of today for the Nuggets to decide whether they wanted to trade Anthony. As has been the case all along, the Nuggets weren’t ready to pull the trigger on a deal so the Nets backed out.
In the original proposed four-team trade, the Nets were sending Derrick Favors and two future first-round picks to Denver, Devin Harris to Charlotte and Quinton Ross to Utah. In return the Nets were getting Anthony.
The Nuggets also were going to receive Andrei Kirilenko from the Jazz, who would get Boris Diaw from Charlotte.
As the days passed, Utah and Charlotte had reservations about being in the deal and the Nets also felt they were being hung out to dry by the Nuggets and their indecisiveness.
The Nets want to concentrate on the team that they have after six practices with the cloud of uncertainity of their heads.
Anthony was at Nuggets’ practice today. Denver remains hopeful it can convince Anthony to stay in the organization and sign a three-year $65 million contract extension that’s been on the table since June.
If Anthony’s camp pushes for a trade, the Nuggets could call the Nets and try to resume talks. This was the best deal the Nuggets were offered. But if that happens, the Nets could take a harder stance and offer less after the way this has been handled by Denver.
In all likelihood, a deal gets done it could involve different players and different teams.
Mile High
Footballguy
I don't blame the Nets at all. As I've said before Melo wants Knicks or Bulls. Nuggets are wasting everyones time looking else where. It will come down to Denver excepting that fact and taking what they can get or telling Melo resign with us or enjoy your new contract under the new CBA rules.
Moe.
Footballguy
Play basketball.
No. 16
Footballguy
Melo is an above average rebounder, but he's not a great rebounder for the position. Sadly, aside from scoring that's the only other thing he's above average at. If you look down the lists of Finals teams you'll be hard press to find a team led by a player who isn't exceptional at scoring AND something else. Also Melo scoring 28 ppg is a function of the offense and the fact that he takes so many shots. I believe the ability to create opportunities to score IS a talent/skill, but it's one that the truly great scorers learn how to use wisely.Kev4029 said:
I think you're over estimating Melo's scoring ability. Check out the list of players who have avg 27+ ppg and are under 6'10 (to eliminate most centers) sorted by TS% to show that there are plenty of seasons where someone has put up total points and done it more efficiently than Melo.
> 27 ppg AND < 6'10" in 3 point Era since 1979-80
So as you can see Melo's best season so far ranked 61 out of the 85 eligible player seasons and there are plenty of perimeter players who have done better - by scoring as much and with better efficiency.
If you want to compare Melo to his contemporaries then Durant, LBJ, Wade, Arenas, and Kobe have put up as many points and more efficiently than Melo. In fact only Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady ♠♠have scored less efficiently than Melo since he's been in the league.
> 27 ppg AND < 6'10" since 2003-04
Melo is still a very good player because he's a volume scorer and is average at everything else. However, he's not on the level of Kobe, LBJ, and Wade as an all around player and as I previously mentioned he's not as exceptional at scoring as Durant.
I think Gilbert Arenas is a great comparison to Melo. He's a great scorer (actually better than Melo), but because he's only average at everything else you wouldn't want to build a team around him.
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Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I am probably one of the biggest Anthony supporters here, but I think the Nuggets are going to regret not doing this deal. I hope I am wrong, but the only leverage Denver has now is the threat of what "could" happen with the CBA. If somehow the league is still going status quo next year (unlikely), then Anthony will walk to the highest bidder between NY and Chicago and Denver gets squat. Sure Denver might find someone that wants to "rent" Anthony for a playoff push prior to the trade deadline, but what is Denver going to get for that? A 2nd rounder--maybe a low-end expiring deal?They should have taken the deal--which wouldn't have made them champions this year, but at least gives this team some light down the road. I think the fans would be forgiving if they, at least, had something to show for this. If he walks, then the other dominoes will fall right behind him and we are going to be stuck here in lottery hell for how many years.And like I said in one of my earlier posts, the worst part of all this is now we Denver fans have to hear over and over, every game telecast, speculations about what is happening with Anthony and not about the team.
No. 16
Footballguy
JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star
Footballguy
@ the Nets' "deadline". 
12 win teams don't get deadlines. Nice try boys. So you're out of the Melo sweepstakes because you want to prepare to break the teens in wins this year?
Abraham
Footballguy
This. He's 4 years younger (or is it 5?) and already a noticeably better player.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I dont care how many wins they have - it needed to be done....cant just be used by another team no matter how bad a records you had last year....@ the Nets' "deadline".
12 win teams don't get deadlines. Nice try boys. So you're out of the Melo sweepstakes because you want to prepare to break the teens in wins this year?
Abraham
Footballguy
Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:@ the Nets' "deadline".
the moops
Footballguy
He scores more while taking less shots. He shoots better from the floor, from the 3 pt line, from the free throw line. He gets more rebounds, more blocks, and gets to the line more often.I'm not sure there is anything that Durant doesn't do better than Melo.
Mile High
Footballguy
Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:12 win teams don't get deadlines. Nice try boys. So you're out of the Melo sweepstakes because you want to prepare to break the teens in wins this year?
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Abraham
Footballguy
I think they might lower the offering price. I think every month that passes without a deal means Denver is getting less in return.Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:12 win teams don't get deadlines. Nice try boys. So you're out of the Melo sweepstakes because you want to prepare to break the teens in wins this year?
Major
Footballguy
:( Denver will likely jump at the opportunity to steal Battier and Brooks from the Rockets.I think they might lower the offering price. I think every month that passes without a deal means Denver is getting less in return.Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think it also means they're not going to waste any more time trying to work a deal or mess more with the heads of their current players at this point. I'm sure if the Nuggets came back to them with some semblance of a deal the Nets would pick up negotiations at that point. But now the Nets have to go forward with getting ready for the season and not carry on the distraction of these negotiations.I think they might lower the offering price. I think every month that passes without a deal means Denver is getting less in return.Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:
Kev4029
Footballguy
Why do you think that? Melo isn't getting any worse, and while I liked the Nets trade, it wasn't a good move from a money standpoint for the Nuggets. If they choose to trade him, there are going to be plenty of teams hoping to get him.I think they might lower the offering price. I think every month that passes without a deal means Denver is getting less in return.Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:
Mile High
Footballguy
I agree 100%. Nets should move on cause I don't think Melo was ever going to agree to go there in the first place.I think it also means they're not going to waste any more time trying to work a deal or mess more with the heads of their current players at this point. I'm sure if the Nuggets came back to them with some semblance of a deal the Nets would pick up negotiations at that point. But now the Nets have to go forward with getting ready for the season and not carry on the distraction of these negotiations.I think they might lower the offering price. I think every month that passes without a deal means Denver is getting less in return.Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star said:
SKribbles
Footballguy
Melo is ahead in drunk driving arrests.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Also tattoos.
JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star
Footballguy
Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.
"Sorry, we've moved on"Right. --------------------------------------Nets absolutely whiffed on the FA bonanza this summer. They'll be on their knees at the first sign a high profile player says he wants to go there.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
They may certainly be interested still but had to take the daily heat off their players and get ready for the season....as for whiffing in FA - yes - they along with many other teams missed out on Lebron....as said previously the only other player they were remotely interested in was Boozer...they had zero interest in Amare's knee at that price or Lee at that price as well....Not that I blame them. But if next week/next month Melo says I'm willing to go to the Nets. Think they are going to say "Sorry deadline passed, we aren't interested?"Interesting. Based on the fact that the Nets said, "we have a deadline" and now that the deadline has passed they have backed out of the deal, it would appear that your statement is incorrect.
Max Power
Footballguy
LeBron James and Maverick Carter were interviewed in a short piece on CNN in which they said, among other things, that they believed race was a factor in how the media covered The Decision.
When asked if race was a factor, LeBron offered, "I think so at times. It's always, you know, a race factor." In fairness, the race question was posed to them by Soledad O'Brien and wasn't likely on their wish list of questions to be asked, but expect some scrutiny over this in the next few days. Carter did offer that "the execution (of The Decision) could have been a little better," but until him and LeBron own up to one of the biggest P.R. blunders in sports history, The King will likely continue to be a pariah. Sep. 30 - 12:58 am et
Source: CNN.com
Is this dude for real? I'm liking Lebron less and less each day.
When asked if race was a factor, LeBron offered, "I think so at times. It's always, you know, a race factor." In fairness, the race question was posed to them by Soledad O'Brien and wasn't likely on their wish list of questions to be asked, but expect some scrutiny over this in the next few days. Carter did offer that "the execution (of The Decision) could have been a little better," but until him and LeBron own up to one of the biggest P.R. blunders in sports history, The King will likely continue to be a pariah. Sep. 30 - 12:58 am et
Source: CNN.com
Is this dude for real? I'm liking Lebron less and less each day.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
He doesn't seem to be the sharpest guy in the world (and neither do his "managers").
Kev4029
Footballguy
Bulls sign Noah to a 5 year 60 million dollar contract. Between that contract, Deng's contract, Boozer's contract, and the contract Rose is going to get in a couple years they are strapped for years. How many bad contracts can one team hand out? Erick Dampier thinks Chicago over paid Noah, ask the Hornets how giving a Center with no offensive skills works out in the long term (Chandler).
It no wonder the NBA is going to have a lock out, the owners just can't help themselves to over paying everybody. A ####### role player just got 12 million dollars a year.
It no wonder the NBA is going to have a lock out, the owners just can't help themselves to over paying everybody. A ####### role player just got 12 million dollars a year.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
And Boozer is out 8 weeks with a broken hand.
No. 16
Footballguy
I'll pay 12 million a year for Noah vs. 20 million for Amare, 16 million for Gay, and 20 million Joe Johnson is getting. It's better to overpay for defense and at the C spot than to overpay for offense.I mean for 60 million you get a guy who can shutdown the opposing team's 100 million dollar player.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Mike Ilitch to buy Pistons
I like this unless he sells the Tigers Who would he sell the Tigers to you ask? Dan Gilbert. oof
I like this unless he sells the Tigers Who would he sell the Tigers to you ask? Dan Gilbert. oof
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Dwayne Wade went out 4:00 into the 1st quarter with a pulled hammy. Maybe it's a tweak but I wouldn't expect him for at least a week. LeBron proceeded to unleash hell on the Pistons, good gawd, i know he's amazing and all but to watch him tonight with bosh clearing out the lanes he was doing anything he wanted. All heat players not named Wade, Bosh, and James are open about everytime down the court.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Noah is kind of becoming that so under rated hes over rated player. He is a very good defender, but not elite, and a very good rebounder but not elite and the only thing he offers offensively is garbage near the hoop. I can't think of a single defense only big man who has ever lived up to a big contract. While I hated the Amare signing, a healthy Amare putting up 25 and 9 is far more productive for an NBA team than 10 and 10 with solid defense.And about him shutting down the other team's opposing player, I would argue that his strength defensively is much more as an active team defender than it is shutting down the opposing center. In 2012 and 2013 (Deng's final two years) they are going to be paying him 13.3/14.3, Noah 11.1/12.1, Boozer 15/15.3, and Rose will be on his new contract giving him something around 15/16. In 2013 they will be paying those four somewhere in the neighborhood of $58 million.The Bulls have gone all in with this team, and its very unlikely they will be making any significant changes four the next 4 seasons. We'll get to see if this huge off season for the Bulls pays off, but I envision a very disappointing 4 years for the Chicago Bulls.
Eephus
Footballguy
$12M isn't terrible. It's basically Nene money. It's not inconceivable he could play up to it, particularly if he develops offensively.I agree with you though regarding the Bulls commitment to this club. They've sacrificed their sizable cap room on a team that isn't all that great on paper. Maybe Thibodeau will work wonders with the talent they have but right now, they look like a second tier team.
No. 16
Footballguy
What starting Cs would you rank as better defenders then Noah? I can only think of a few off the top of my head (Howard, Perkins, Oden, Camby, Dalembert). Regarding his rebounding Noah WAS an elite rebounder last year.
Noah TRB Rate
He ranked 8th in RPG, had total rebound rate of 20.4 per 100 possessions which is good for 9th in the NBA, and according to 82games.com the team rebounded collected 2.1% more rebounds when he was ON the court vs OFF. This means that he's an actual difference maker in rebounding (not just collecting rebounds that the team would have gotten other wise).
So all in all I think that's worth 12 million.
Now Andris Biedrins at 9 million a year is a STEAL!
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
I flipped on C-Span last night and caught a debate between the two candidates for Governor of Oregon.
One of the candidates towered over the other. It took a few seconds to realize that the tall dude was ex-NBA player Chris Dudley.
One of the candidates towered over the other. It took a few seconds to realize that the tall dude was ex-NBA player Chris Dudley.
simmonjm
Footballguy
Background is great follow the link: I have added some of the best quotes
http://twitter.com/MoodyFernandez
my life is like the porland fans: initial excitement followed by the crushing disappointment
why do team make fun of me for gelling hair before game? not like i'm to play.
my soul is like my boxscore line. empty.
http://twitter.com/MoodyFernandez
my life is like the porland fans: initial excitement followed by the crushing disappointment
why do team make fun of me for gelling hair before game? not like i'm to play.
my soul is like my boxscore line. empty.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think you're my favorite basketball poster here because our views and opinions are so much different that it makes it fun me to read what you have to say, and you usually bring up some fair points.Better defenders:
Howard (Clearly)
Oden (Clearly when healthy)
Perkins (Far superior on the block, not as good elsewhere)
Varejao (Does everything better than Noah other than rebound, defensively... played lots of PF last year but should get most of his time at C this year)
Duncan (he's lost a step, so he can't defend the pick and roll well any more, but he is still pretty stellar everywhere else)
Okafor (Underrated because of his bulky contract)
Guys that are comparable overall, but may have weaknesses:
Camby (mediocre on the block, but is probably the 2nd best weak side defender in the NBA behind Howard)
Haywood (Very good on the block, quick enough to step out, not the athlete Noah is)
Ben Wallace (Still a good athlete for being pretty old)
Bogut (knows where to be, blocks shots, good low post defender)
Biedrins (Just Kidding!! - As a side note, it his limited action last year he shot 16% from the line...4/25)
So I would put him in the 7-11 range as a defender, probably closer to 7.
As a rebounder his number are slightly over rated because of the rebounding talent around him. Gibson and Thomas are average rebounders as PFs (played about 70% of the PF minutes) and Deng (good rebounder for a SF) and Warrick are both terrible as rebounders from the PF spot and they filled the majority of the rest of the PF minutes. Overall as a team, minus Noah, they are bad rebounding team so it gives Noah more opportunities as a rebounder.
Overall I think Noah is probably in the 12-15 range as an NBA center (Howard, Lopez, Duncan, Perkins, Lee, Amare - when considered a center, Varejao, Oden - when healthy, Bynum - when healthly, Bogut, Horford, both Gasols - when Pau is considered a center, Kaman and probably Okafor). Nearly all those guys are making similar money or soon will be, so maybe by inflated salaries he got fair market price, but how many teams are happy with their $10-12 million dollar centers.... not many.
No. 16
Footballguy
I think your defenders list is solid (I can't believe I forgot about Varejao), but I'll have to disagree with Okafor being better than Noah. Okafor is a bit better on the block and as a weak side shotblocker, but he's not nearly as good closing on 3 point shooters and defending the PnR. So I think Noah is a better overall defender. I certainly don't think Noah is a bargain at 12 million, but I don't think it's wasted money or makes him overpaid (not sure if that was your original stance). If I were building a team from the big men you mentioned (considering contract status) I would probably draft them as follows.
The One and Only
1. Dwight Howard ~18 million per year/3 yrs
Center-pieces and Value Play
2. Brook Lopez ~ Rookie contract/ 3 yrs - Cheap 3 year deal and potential improvement.
3. Pau Gasol ~ 19 mpy/4 yrs - Contract ends at 34, but his game is skill based so he should remain effective. Think Duncan the past 4 years.
4. Andrew Bogut ~ 12 mpy/4 yrs - If he continues his play from last year, his contract will make him underpaid.
5. Tim Duncan ~ 20 mpy/2 yrs - He's still great, but he's old (34).
6. Andersen Varejao ~ 8 mpy/5 yrs - An absolute steal at this price, so that's why he's lumped with these guys. He'll never be a focal point of a championship team, but he can be the starting C/PF for a championship team.
Starters on a Championship Team
7. Joakim Noah ~ 12 mpy/5 yrs in 11/12 season- Love his game, but @ 12 million he's market price.
8. Al Horford ~ Rookie Deal/2 yrs - Love his game too, but unlike Noah he doesn't have the length to be a full-time C. He should get an extension similar to Noah so money isn't an issue.
9. Kendrick Perkins ~ 4.5 mpy/1 yr - Cheap this year and will probably get Noah money. One of the few starters who can guard Howard one on one.
Flawed All*Stars
10. David Lee ~ 13 mpy/6 yrs - Elite rebounder, scoring effciency, and passing. No defense.
11. Marc Gasol ~ Rookie Deal/1 yr - He's a solid C and I think he's underrated, so I don't think an extension will cost as much as Noah/Hordford.
12. Greg Oden - Rookie Deal/2 yrs - Worth a shot on his rookie contract. With his injury history I'd be very wary of handing out anything long term. He's probably gonna get 10 million + and not play enough games to fulfill the contract. Once that happens, he'll join Bynum. If he stays healthy for the next 2 years, he can move up a tier or two.
13. Emeka Okafor ~ 12 mpy/4 yrs - The oldest guy in this tier and that's why he's here. All defense, no offense.
Risky, Pricey Investments
14. Amare Stoudemire ~ 20 mpy/5 yrs - He's an impact player, but I just think there's better ways to spend 20 million. I'll gladly take any of the guys in the above tiers AND a 7-8 million dollar side kick.
15. Andrew Bynum ~ 15 mpy/3 yrs - $15 million on the injured reserve is a huge waste. Big men generally don't get healthier as they age.
16. Chris Kaman ~11.5 mpy/2 yrs - He's not bad at all, but I'll take everyone else over him. His contract is short and he's a decent starter.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kev4029
Footballguy
I definitely don't think Noah's contract is wasted money, but he is over paid now.I pretty much agree with your list, I like how you separated everybody. The only changes I would make are bumping Varejao down a tier and baby Gasol up a tier.
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