*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (8 Viewers)

[Premier]

I'm almost 100% sure Rashard would be in that deal, Tobias...but yes, he only has two more years after this one. No way the Magic could pay both those guys.

I guess the question is, is Arenas good enough to be the 2nd-best player on a championship team? I don't know enough about his present game to really say.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm almost a 100% sure Rashard would be in that deal, Tobias...but yes, he only has one more year after this one. No way the Magic could pay both those guys. I guess the question is, is Arenas good enough to be the 2nd-best player on a championship team? I don't know enough about his present game to really say.

So Bass would move into the starting lineup at the 4?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm almost a 100% sure Rashard would be in that deal, Tobias...but yes, he only has one more year after this one. No way the Magic could pay both those guys. I guess the question is, is Arenas good enough to be the 2nd-best player on a championship team? I don't know enough about his present game to really say.

And I don't know enough about what a championship team looks like to really say. I'm a Wizards fan.I will say that Arenas has an underrated ability to make the players around him better, especially wing types. Consider the careers of Larry Hughes, Antwan Jamison and Caron Butler both before and after playing with Arenas. All of them had the best years of their career, by far, playing with Arenas. If he stayed healhy, it's easy to imagine him doing the same for Vince and whatever other wings the Magic are running out there.And yeah, I'm assuming Rashard Lewis has to be in the deal, too. That's why I was trying to talk myself into the value of that extra year of freedom from the contract.

 

[Premier]

I'm almost 100% sure Rashard would be in that deal, Tobias...but yes, he only has two more years after this one. No way the Magic could pay both those guys. I guess the question is, is Arenas good enough to be the 2nd-best player on a championship team? I don't know enough about his present game to really say.

Bass and Anderson would probably split minutes. Anderson doesn't play much now as his game is redundant to Lewis'. I imagine his PT will pick up if Lewis mercifully leaves. I edited my post above...Lewis has two long years left after this one.

 

[Kev4029]

Aside from never making an all nba team as a Grizzlie he only made one all star team. He made as many all star teams as David West, Carlos Boozer,

Mehmet Okur, Rashard Lewis and Brad Miller during that period. Meanwhile guys like Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki, Brand, Ming, Marion, Shaq and Stoudemire made two or more. Pau Gasol was an only an all league talent in Memphis if you ignore all of the actual all league talent ahead of him.

Or if you understand that many of the designations you're talking about are as much about reputation and visibility as they are about skill and production. I always assumed every serious sports fan knew this, but I guess not.

The guy is in the Top 15 in PER in virtually every season of his career. He was #7 overall in 2006-2007. Suggesting he wasn't one of the elite talents in basketball at that point is just absurd.

You really should stop digging yourself into this hole.

In the FFA world Bulls fans were sweating the idea of trading Loul Deng for him Link

In the Build a Franchise Draft he was drafted after Dirk, Duncan, Ming, Howard, Bosh, Stoudamire, Oden, Brand, Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal and Boozer.

link

CBS Sportsline pegged him as the 7th best PF (via Assani Fisher)

Link

Bill Simmons pegged him as the 39th most valuable player between Chandler and Camby: Proposes trade of Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro for Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic's expiring deal, an unprotected 2008 No. 1 and $3 million.

Link

Assani Fisher labels him a Tier 3 player

Link

Lots of "serious" sports fans dropped the ball here

In the draft he was picked 22, Assani had him 18, those CBS rankings have always been bunk (I read them every year because I find them interesting). Simmons Gasol Rankings:

Feb 2010 - 19

Feb 2009 - 15

Dec 2007 - 39

July 2006 - 22

Jun 2005 - 23

Nice job finding the Simmons article that has him undervalued to prove your point. He hasn't moved from being a good to great player, he has gone from being a very good to kinda great player while the forward talent around the NBA has began to age (Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, Pierce, Marion, Brand, T-Mac) while very little forward talent has entered the league in the past 3-4 years (Durant and....). So while he has risen from top 8-10 forwards in the NBA to top 5-6 (3rd team all nba), its more because of the lack of young forward talent (with a good influx of guard and center talent instead). 2010 Pau Gasol would probably still not make the all NBA team in 2006-2007 (Garnett, Lebron, Duncan, Dirk, Amare would all be well ahead of him and he would be fighting for a 1-2 spots with Bosh, Melo, Boozer, Marion, Brand, O'Neal, Butler and Pierce) and in 2007-2008 (Garnett, James, Amare, Dirk and Duncan all ahead of him, so he would be fighting for 1-2 spots with Melo, Pierce, Boozer, Bosh, West, Jamison, and Butler).

The only guys playing at the same level as forwards in 2010 as 2007 are Melo, James, and Bosh while Amare, Dirk and Boozer have maintained close to previous levels with the only forward (previous to this years rise of Griffin and Love) addition being Durant.

 

[Gr00vus]

What's nice is there's hardly any coverage (relative to what would usually go on) of the Lakers' 3 game losing streak and how god ####### awful they're playing.

Thanks LeBron!!!

 

[TobiasFunke]

What's nice is there's hardly any coverage (relative to what would usually go on) of the Lakers' 3 game losing streak and how god ####### awful they're playing. Thanks LeBron!!!

For what it's worth, I think a lot of people were shocked that the Lakers didn't put it on cruise control right out of the gates and start thinking about April. I suspect that most people see this as essentially a correction to previous expectations.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Aside from never making an all nba team as a Grizzlie he only made one all star team. He made as many all star teams as David West, Carlos Boozer,

Mehmet Okur, Rashard Lewis and Brad Miller during that period. Meanwhile guys like Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki, Brand, Ming, Marion, Shaq and Stoudemire made two or more. Pau Gasol was an only an all league talent in Memphis if you ignore all of the actual all league talent ahead of him.

Or if you understand that many of the designations you're talking about are as much about reputation and visibility as they are about skill and production. I always assumed every serious sports fan knew this, but I guess not.

The guy is in the Top 15 in PER in virtually every season of his career. He was #7 overall in 2006-2007. Suggesting he wasn't one of the elite talents in basketball at that point is just absurd.

You really should stop digging yourself into this hole.

In the FFA world Bulls fans were sweating the idea of trading Loul Deng for him Link

In the Build a Franchise Draft he was drafted after Dirk, Duncan, Ming, Howard, Bosh, Stoudamire, Oden, Brand, Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal and Boozer.

link

CBS Sportsline pegged him as the 7th best PF (via Assani Fisher)

Link

Bill Simmons pegged him as the 39th most valuable player between Chandler and Camby: Proposes trade of Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro for Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic's expiring deal, an unprotected 2008 No. 1 and $3 million.

Link

Assani Fisher labels him a Tier 3 player

Link

Lots of "serious" sports fans dropped the ball here

Virtually all of those links are from pre- or mid-2007, i.e. before he'd finished his best season, and most of them put him in the Top 20 or so players in a league that has 30 teams. By what possible definition is that not elite?

And Gasol was by far the best player at the Worlds that summer also on the championship team IIRC.

 

[JMon348]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

 

[Kev4029]

There's not one GM in the league that would choose Melo over Rose at this point when building a team.

I am quite sure there are at least a few who would do so.Carmelo Anthony is only 26 years old. His previous 2 years, and this year, have been better than Rose's.Yes, Derrick Rose has the chance of being a better ball player than Carmelo. He isn't there yet though, and he may never get there.

Rose is four years younger, and plays a premium position. He's improved every season, and is playing near MVP level this season. He's been better than Melo this season. I like Melo and think he's probably worth a max contract for the Nets if they can get him, but I just had to interject when I saw your comments about Rose.

A premium position that nearly half of the NBA has an All Star level talent (Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, Rose, Harris, Curry, Parker, Rondo, Wall, Billups, Kidd) plus another half dozen or so that can legitimately start for a playoff team (Felton, Stuckey, Miller, Jennings, Nelson, M Williams, Collison, Conley, Brooks, Arenas) plus another few that could be very good starters soon (Lawson, Holliday, Bledsoe), while there are 6-7 all star level SFs (Lebron, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Gay, Grander and maybe Wallace) and another 7-8 solid starters (Chandler, Marion, Batum, Deng, AK 47, Artest, Jefferson and maybe Maggette) and only a couple up and comers (Aminu, Budinger, and I still like Terrence Williams).And I've made this argument against Rose before and I'll do it again quickly here, he as improved two things significantly in his game in 3 years. He has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to merely just a below average defender and he has improved his shot taking (not making) ability. You see these huge per game stats because he is playing 40 minutes per game and taking more shots per game than anybody since Melo and Kobe in 2006-2007 (who shot 0.4 and 0.8 more shots per game respectively and scored 2.3 and 5 points more per game). He has nearly three times as many shots per game as assists, that is an incredible statistic for a PG. He is 46th is Assist Ratio, 19th in TO ratio, and 18th in rebound rate. As a rookie he was 39th, 18th, and 25th.

 

[Gr00vus]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

 

[wadegarrett]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

I can't figure out who has a bigger horse mouth, Howard or Miley Cyrus.

 

[Smarge]

There's not one GM in the league that would choose Melo over Rose at this point when building a team.

I am quite sure there are at least a few who would do so.Carmelo Anthony is only 26 years old. His previous 2 years, and this year, have been better than Rose's.Yes, Derrick Rose has the chance of being a better ball player than Carmelo. He isn't there yet though, and he may never get there.

Rose is four years younger, and plays a premium position. He's improved every season, and is playing near MVP level this season. He's been better than Melo this season. I like Melo and think he's probably worth a max contract for the Nets if they can get him, but I just had to interject when I saw your comments about Rose.

A premium position that nearly half of the NBA has an All Star level talent (Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, Rose, Harris, Curry, Parker, Rondo, Wall, Billups, Kidd) plus another half dozen or so that can legitimately start for a playoff team (Felton, Stuckey, Miller, Jennings, Nelson, M Williams, Collison, Conley, Brooks, Arenas) plus another few that could be very good starters soon (Lawson, Holliday, Bledsoe), while there are 6-7 all star level SFs (Lebron, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Gay, Grander and maybe Wallace) and another 7-8 solid starters (Chandler, Marion, Batum, Deng, AK 47, Artest, Jefferson and maybe Maggette) and only a couple up and comers (Aminu, Budinger, and I still like Terrence Williams).And I've made this argument against Rose before and I'll do it again quickly here, he as improved two things significantly in his game in 3 years. He has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to merely just a below average defender and he has improved his shot taking (not making) ability. You see these huge per game stats because he is playing 40 minutes per game and taking more shots per game than anybody since Melo and Kobe in 2006-2007 (who shot 0.4 and 0.8 more shots per game respectively and scored 2.3 and 5 points more per game). He has nearly three times as many shots per game as assists, that is an incredible statistic for a PG. He is 46th is Assist Ratio, 19th in TO ratio, and 18th in rebound rate. As a rookie he was 39th, 18th, and 25th.

Who would you rather take the shots for the Bulls right now? Bogans? Brewer? Gibson? Noah? He has to take a bunch of shots for them to score/win. We'll see when Boozer comes back how his attempts drop....I suspect pretty significantly. In addition, his penetration opens up the floor for his teammates. There's nobody in the league that can keep him out of the lane. He's a better defender, a better passer (awareness in the pick and roll and understanding where his teammates are going to be) and a better perimeter shooter. I love stats and appreciate using them to back up an argument, but it's obvious to anyone who's watched him consistently that he's gotten better in each of these categories.

 

[Yo Mama]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

Seems like he was trying to hold back a smirk a few times though - like this was a bit orchestrated.

 

[Kev4029]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

 

[Juxtatarot]

There's not one GM in the league that would choose Melo over Rose at this point when building a team.

I am quite sure there are at least a few who would do so.Carmelo Anthony is only 26 years old. His previous 2 years, and this year, have been better than Rose's.Yes, Derrick Rose has the chance of being a better ball player than Carmelo. He isn't there yet though, and he may never get there.

Rose is four years younger, and plays a premium position. He's improved every season, and is playing near MVP level this season. He's been better than Melo this season. I like Melo and think he's probably worth a max contract for the Nets if they can get him, but I just had to interject when I saw your comments about Rose.

A premium position that nearly half of the NBA has an All Star level talent (Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, Rose, Harris, Curry, Parker, Rondo, Wall, Billups, Kidd) plus another half dozen or so that can legitimately start for a playoff team (Felton, Stuckey, Miller, Jennings, Nelson, M Williams, Collison, Conley, Brooks, Arenas) plus another few that could be very good starters soon (Lawson, Holliday, Bledsoe), while there are 6-7 all star level SFs (Lebron, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Gay, Grander and maybe Wallace) and another 7-8 solid starters (Chandler, Marion, Batum, Deng, AK 47, Artest, Jefferson and maybe Maggette) and only a couple up and comers (Aminu, Budinger, and I still like Terrence Williams).And I've made this argument against Rose before and I'll do it again quickly here, he as improved two things significantly in his game in 3 years. He has gone from being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to merely just a below average defender and he has improved his shot taking (not making) ability. You see these huge per game stats because he is playing 40 minutes per game and taking more shots per game than anybody since Melo and Kobe in 2006-2007 (who shot 0.4 and 0.8 more shots per game respectively and scored 2.3 and 5 points more per game). He has nearly three times as many shots per game as assists, that is an incredible statistic for a PG. He is 46th is Assist Ratio, 19th in TO ratio, and 18th in rebound rate. As a rookie he was 39th, 18th, and 25th.

Who would you rather take the shots for the Bulls right now? Bogans? Brewer? Gibson? Noah? He has to take a bunch of shots for them to score/win. We'll see when Boozer comes back how his attempts drop....I suspect pretty significantly. In addition, his penetration opens up the floor for his teammates. There's nobody in the league that can keep him out of the lane. He's a better defender, a better passer (awareness in the pick and roll and understanding where his teammates are going to be) and a better perimeter shooter. I love stats and appreciate using them to back up an argument, but it's obvious to anyone who's watched him consistently that he's gotten better in each of these categories.

You don't learn much from analyzing Rose's stats in comparison to other PGs. No other PG is expected to do so much with such offensively-challenged teammates. He has played at a near MVP level so far this year.

 

[Gr00vus]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

Seems like he was trying to hold back a smirk a few times though - like this was a bit orchestrated.

You're on your game today.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

Seems like he was trying to hold back a smirk a few times though - like this was a bit orchestrated.

You're on your game today.

Dwight Howard is who we thought he was. He's a man. He's 25. He doesn't do diddly-poo offensively.

 

[Kev4029]

You don't learn much from analyzing Rose's stats in comparison to other PGs. No other PG is expected to do so much with such offensively-challenged teammates. He has played at a near MVP level so far this year.

What about a guy like Chris Paul? He gets his mediocre teammates involved. I wouldn't say that Okafor, West, Ariza and Belinelli with Willie Green and Jason Smith off the bench are much better than Bogans, Deng, Gibson, and Noah with Korver and Brewer off the bench. How bout Nash with Richardson, Frye, Hill and Turkeyglue with Warrick and Childress off the bench. He is not the only PG that is the focal point of a offense with offensive short comings. He is taking the most shots of any player in the NBA is 5 years, not any point guard, but any player. That is not a PG that will win you games that matter, it has never once worked out for a team. Never, since the merger, has a PG lead the league in FGA, and the reason is because it doesn't work. Rose isn't the first PG who was the best offensive force his team had, he needs to learn to quit taking so many jumpers (even though he has improved, he still takes too many) and pass the ball. Rose often dribbles around, a la Allen Iverson, looking for either a shot or an assist and is reluctant to pass the ball sometimes if it isn't leading to an assist. Its why Iverson constantly had good assist averages but mediocre assist rates, we all knew Iverson wasn't a great passer.

 

[JMon348]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

He's done the same thing the last 3 years:3 conference titles2 championship rings

 

[Kev4029]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

He's done the same thing the last 3 years:3 conference titles2 championship rings

I'm not saying hes doing anything wrong, just adding that to CC's post (I saw your post quoting his first when I was scrolling so I quoted your post). Not trying to argue with you about Kobe. We all know that the Kobe arguments turn out the same way every time.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

He's done the same thing the last 3 years:3 conference titles2 championship rings

Same numbers as Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton.

 

[Balco]

Apparently the Magic are going super-hard after Arenas. Not sure I like that move. At all.

Yeah, that would be a horrible move. Arenas is a shell of his former self, and wouldn't fit in at all on the Magic. They just need to suck it up and deal with Rashard Lewis' horrid contract, because it is shorter than Arenas' horrid contract.In 2 years, Howard will still be a beast, and Howard's contract will be off the books. And Lewis' contract will have trade value in the last year of his deal as well.

 

[Gadfly]

Is Cliff Clavin that Routilla guy trying his shtick under a different name? You know, the guy with the obsessive need to comment on every Lakers loss during the regular season as the Lakers go on to win the NBA title?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Apparently the Magic are going super-hard after Arenas. Not sure I like that move. At all.

Yeah, that would be a horrible move. Arenas is a shell of his former self, and wouldn't fit in at all on the Magic. They just need to suck it up and deal with Rashard Lewis' horrid contract, because it is shorter than Arenas' horrid contract.In 2 years, Howard will still be a beast, and Howard's contract will be off the books. And Lewis' contract will have trade value in the last year of his deal as well.

If you think Arenas is a shell of his former self, you're not watching the Wiz this year. He's playing very well- the field goal percentage isn't there, but everything else is, from the range to the free throws to the court vision.That said, I'd love it if the Wiz could find a way to move Arenas. He's clearly a better basketball player than Lewis, but the bigger injury risk combined with the extra year of being burdened with the contract makes him the bigger liability. So obviously I agree with you to some extent. And I have no idea how Gilbert would fit in with the Magic.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Is Cliff Clavin that Routilla guy trying his shtick under a different name? You know, the guy with the obsessive need to comment on every Lakers loss during the regular season as the Lakers go on to win the NBA title?

 

[Kev4029]

Is Cliff Clavin that Routilla guy trying his shtick under a different name? You know, the guy with the obsessive need to comment on every Lakers loss during the regular season as the Lakers go on to win the NBA title?

He pretends to be an obsessive Lakers hater because it drives you guys nuts. Its hilarious.And I think you would have known him as Skribbles in the past if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Kev4029]

Apparently the Magic are going super-hard after Arenas. Not sure I like that move. At all.

Yeah, that would be a horrible move. Arenas is a shell of his former self, and wouldn't fit in at all on the Magic. They just need to suck it up and deal with Rashard Lewis' horrid contract, because it is shorter than Arenas' horrid contract.In 2 years, Howard will still be a beast, and Howard's contract will be off the books. And Lewis' contract will have trade value in the last year of his deal as well.

If you think Arenas is a shell of his former self, you're not watching the Wiz this year. He's playing very well- the field goal percentage isn't there, but everything else is, from the range to the free throws to the court vision.That said, I'd love it if the Wiz could find a way to move Arenas. He's clearly a better basketball player than Lewis, but the bigger injury risk combined with the extra year of being burdened with the contract makes him the bigger liability. So obviously I agree with you to some extent. And I have no idea how Gilbert would fit in with the Magic.

If the Magic can really dump Lewis for Arenas, I think its a great deal. Arenas would play in a three guard rotation with Carter and Nelson, and he would likely come off the bench. The biggest help from the trade might be getting Bass and Anderson more time while eliminating Lewis' mediocre play.

 

[boubucarow]

What about a guy like Chris Paul? He gets his mediocre teammates involved. I wouldn't say that Okafor, West, Ariza and Belinelli with Willie Green and Jason Smith off the bench are much better than Bogans, Deng, Gibson, and Noah with Korver and Brewer off the bench. How bout Nash with Richardson, Frye, Hill and Turkeyglue with Warrick and Childress off the bench. He is not the only PG that is the focal point of a offense with offensive short comings. He is taking the most shots of any player in the NBA is 5 years, not any point guard, but any player. That is not a PG that will win you games that matter, it has never once worked out for a team. Never, since the merger, has a PG lead the league in FGA, and the reason is because it doesn't work. Rose isn't the first PG who was the best offensive force his team had, he needs to learn to quit taking so many jumpers (even though he has improved, he still takes too many) and pass the ball. Rose often dribbles around, a la Allen Iverson, looking for either a shot or an assist and is reluctant to pass the ball sometimes if it isn't leading to an assist. Its why Iverson constantly had good assist averages but mediocre assist rates, we all knew Iverson wasn't a great passer.

More often than not in the last decade the NBA champion was led in the regular season in both assists and shots per game by the same player. Kobe has done it numerous times, Parker once, and Wade did so also. In the case of Kobe and Wade, they both tossed up in the neighborhood of 20 shots or more per game. It didn't stop their teams from winning championships. I don't see why you are hung up on him being a PG when the champion Lakers, Bulls, and Wade's Heat didn't function as teams with an assist driven PG.And having watched every second of the Bulls season so far. I don't see you claim being true about Rose holding the ball until a shot is taken or an assist is available. The Bulls average 21.6 assists per game and Rose averages 8.2 meaning the other Bulls average 13.4 assists per game. The other Celtics average 12.4 assists. The other Thunder average 9.6 assists per game. The other Hornets average 10.7 assists per game. Considering Rose plays 39+ minutes a game and has the ball at the beginning of nearly every possession he is on the floor, your assertion is really unfounded. The Bulls ball movement is crisp when the offense is flowing and Rose isn't dominating the ball in the manner in which you speak. It seems clear to me that you have not payed much attention to Rose if you don't think he is trying to involve his teammates before he looks to shoot. The only exception is during the crunch time when all elite scorers take over or during occasions when the whole offense is struggling and he takes it upon himself to end a dry spell.I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

 

[No. 16]

Dwight Howard post game meltdown.

Seems like he was trying to hold back a smirk a few times though - like this was a bit orchestrated.

You're on your game today.

Dwight Howard is who we thought he was. He's a man. He's 25. He doesn't do diddly-poo offensively.

He gets his team into the bonus early!

 

[EasyMorningRebel]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

He's done the same thing the last 3 years:3 conference titles2 championship rings

I love this place

 

[No. 16]

What about a guy like Chris Paul? He gets his mediocre teammates involved. I wouldn't say that Okafor, West, Ariza and Belinelli with Willie Green and Jason Smith off the bench are much better than Bogans, Deng, Gibson, and Noah with Korver and Brewer off the bench. How bout Nash with Richardson, Frye, Hill and Turkeyglue with Warrick and Childress off the bench. He is not the only PG that is the focal point of a offense with offensive short comings. He is taking the most shots of any player in the NBA is 5 years, not any point guard, but any player. That is not a PG that will win you games that matter, it has never once worked out for a team. Never, since the merger, has a PG lead the league in FGA, and the reason is because it doesn't work. Rose isn't the first PG who was the best offensive force his team had, he needs to learn to quit taking so many jumpers (even though he has improved, he still takes too many) and pass the ball. Rose often dribbles around, a la Allen Iverson, looking for either a shot or an assist and is reluctant to pass the ball sometimes if it isn't leading to an assist. Its why Iverson constantly had good assist averages but mediocre assist rates, we all knew Iverson wasn't a great passer.

More often than not in the last decade the NBA champion was led in the regular season in both assists and shots per game by the same player. Kobe has done it numerous times, Parker once, and Wade did so also. In the case of Kobe and Wade, they both tossed up in the neighborhood of 20 shots or more per game. It didn't stop their teams from winning championships. I don't see why you are hung up on him being a PG when the champion Lakers, Bulls, and Wade's Heat didn't function as teams with an assist driven PG.And having watched every second of the Bulls season so far. I don't see you claim being true about Rose holding the ball until a shot is taken or an assist is available. The Bulls average 21.6 assists per game and Rose averages 8.2 meaning the other Bulls average 13.4 assists per game. The other Celtics average 12.4 assists. The other Thunder average 9.6 assists per game. The other Hornets average 10.7 assists per game. Considering Rose plays 39+ minutes a game and has the ball at the beginning of nearly every possession he is on the floor, your assertion is really unfounded. The Bulls ball movement is crisp when the offense is flowing and Rose isn't dominating the ball in the manner in which you speak. It seems clear to me that you have not payed much attention to Rose if you don't think he is trying to involve his teammates before he looks to shoot. The only exception is during the crunch time when all elite scorers take over or during occasions when the whole offense is struggling and he takes it upon himself to end a dry spell.I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

Agreed. Rose's impact of the game is ridiculous. I wasn't a fan of his last year, but watching him play this year has been great. The Bulls will be a real killer team if Boozer can mesh well. I think a lot of posters here underestimate Boozer, but I think the Rose/Noah/Boozer is right up there with any Big 3. If they can get anything out of Deng and find a Bruce Bowen type SG, who can lock down perimeter players and hit the 3, they will be a scary team. Add someone like Stephen Jackson and I think the Bulls can win the NBA title with Rose/Noah/Boozer/S-Jax.

 

[Smarge]

I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

On the 20 foot jumper issue, I wonder how much has to do with his inability to get a call when he gets into the lane? For a guy that attacks the basket explosively, it's bizarre to me how little he gets to the line relatively speaking. I heard some announcers speculating that he's so strong that it doesn't look like he's taking contact, so the refs don't call it (no harm, no foul). That seems simplistic to me though, especially in light of the number of times that Westbrook gets to the line with comparable quickness and strength.

 

[Gadfly]

Stat of the day:In 13 wins Bryant averages 18.8 FGA. In 4 loses, 26.5 FGA. Oof.

Will that guy ever figure it out? I dont think he ever will, what he's doing doesn't work, he needs to change in order for the Lakers to start winning.

From Hollinger's Per Diem25 or more shots they are 2-320-24 shots they are 4-2Under 20 they are 7-0

I think this is pretty obvious, even for you guys. When the Lakers are winning and his teammates are playing well, Kobe defers more to others. When the Lakers are losing and his teammates are playing poorly, Kobe tries to shoot them back into it. He's also been on the bench for the entire fourth quarter in three blowout victories.

 

[No. 16]

If I was an NBA GM, I would stay as far away from GA as I can. He's actually my favorite player in the NBA, but while he is playing well now there is no way I want to commit 20 million a year for the next 4 for someone with knee issues. That's wasting an extra year of Howard's prime compared to Lewis.

 

[scoobygang]

If you think Arenas is a shell of his former self, you're not watching the Wiz this year.

Can you blame him?

 

[No. 16]

I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

On the 20 foot jumper issue, I wonder how much has to do with his inability to get a call when he gets into the lane? For a guy that attacks the basket explosively, it's bizarre to me how little he gets to the line relatively speaking. I heard some announcers speculating that he's so strong that it doesn't look like he's taking contact, so the refs don't call it (no harm, no foul). That seems simplistic to me though, especially in light of the number of times that Westbrook gets to the line with comparable quickness and strength.

He's like Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry. These guys have such great body control and great touch around the rim, that they're able to minimize contact so that they get a good shot at the rim. A lot of the perimeter player who get foul calls initiate and absorb and/or exaggerate the body contact to draw the foul AND then they look to finish the layup.

 

[boubucarow]

I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

On the 20 foot jumper issue, I wonder how much has to do with his inability to get a call when he gets into the lane? For a guy that attacks the basket explosively, it's bizarre to me how little he gets to the line relatively speaking. I heard some announcers speculating that he's so strong that it doesn't look like he's taking contact, so the refs don't call it (no harm, no foul). That seems simplistic to me though, especially in light of the number of times that Westbrook gets to the line with comparable quickness and strength.

He's like Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry. These guys have such great body control and great touch around the rim, that they're able to minimize contact so that they get a good shot at the rim. A lot of the perimeter player who get foul calls initiate and absorb and/or exaggerate the body contact to draw the foul AND then they look to finish the layup.

A agree with this. He needs to initiate more contact on drives. On the other hand, he seems to get slapped on the head a lot and often without calls.

 

[boubucarow]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Cavaliers probing Heat’s signing of James

CLEVELAND – The Cleveland Cavaliers have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a high-powered Midwestern law firm to investigate their suspicions that the Miami Heat broke NBA tampering rules while pursuing LeBron James, and owner Dan Gilbert has privately vowed he won’t relent until he has a thick binder of findings to drop on the desk of the NBA commissioner, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The NBA won’t launch an investigation into a tampering case without a formal request from a team, but sources say Gilbert’s plan is to give commissioner David Stern a detailed case that includes meetings, phone calls and contingency plans that date as far back as 2008. Gilbert will implore Stern to use his powers as commissioner to get access to phone records and testimony of key people surrounding Heat president Pat Riley, James and others potentially involved.

Gilbert will spare no expense to uncover whatever evidence he can to take to the league office, two sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo! Sports. The law firm staff includes several former prosecutors with backgrounds in investigating and constructing cases, sources said.

Prior to the start of free agency on July 1, no Miami Heat representative – including star Dwyane Wade – was allowed to discuss with James the specific circumstances around Wade, Toronto’s Chris Bosh and James joining together with the Heat.

One focus of the law firm’s probe includes an alleged Riley-James meeting in Miami in November 2009, and a meeting of James’ inner circle with Wade in Chicago in June 2010, sources said.

Riley, James, Wade and Bosh have denied there was a predetermined collusion in the historic free-agent binge, although the players have admitted to discussing the possibility of playing together as far back as the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.

When approached about the story on Tuesday night at Cleveland’s Quicken Loans Arena, Gilbert declined to answer questions from Yahoo! Sports.

As one league source told Yahoo! Sports: The Cavs are “determined to get everything out there. They’re not letting go of this. They’re not going to just let this die.”

Potential penalties for tampering could include front-office suspensions, fines and losses of draft picks. Many teams are suspicious of the league office’s desire to investigate these kind of cases because of the potential embarrassment to the league.

This revelation makes for one more dramatic storyline to James’ return to Cleveland on Thursday night. Gilbert escalated Cleveland’s fervor over losing James when he issued a scathing email about James on the night of the two-time MVP’s television decision. For that diatribe, Stern fined Gilbert $100,000.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-gilbertlebron120110

 

[Kev4029]

I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

On the 20 foot jumper issue, I wonder how much has to do with his inability to get a call when he gets into the lane? For a guy that attacks the basket explosively, it's bizarre to me how little he gets to the line relatively speaking. I heard some announcers speculating that he's so strong that it doesn't look like he's taking contact, so the refs don't call it (no harm, no foul). That seems simplistic to me though, especially in light of the number of times that Westbrook gets to the line with comparable quickness and strength.

He's like Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry. These guys have such great body control and great touch around the rim, that they're able to minimize contact so that they get a good shot at the rim.

A lot of the perimeter player who get foul calls initiate and absorb and/or exaggerate the body contact to draw the foul AND then they look to finish the layup.

Its very much a learned skill, and its a large part of the reason guys like Wade, Billups and Ginobili are so effective. It seems that while it may be more effective to initiate and absorb body contact while going to the hoop, it really wears your body down. I would imagine that most of the guards that get lots of foul calls near the hoop also get injured more often, so maybe its better for the Bulls as an organization that Rose continues to maneuver around traffic than through it.

 

[Kev4029]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

Anybody know if this is on national television, I would love to see how Boozer and Rose coexist?

 

[Smarge]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

Anybody know if this is on national television, I would love to see how Boozer and Rose coexist?

I don't think so, but you can probably find it on channelsurfing

 

[Smarge]

I will agree that he shoots that 20 foot jumper too often and I am curious to see if his game changes when Boozer is fully healthy. I will be surprised if he finishes the season with 22 shots per game and an assist rate of 22.4. I don't think he is the best point guard in the league since that position is loaded with certain expectations. However, there are only 3 point guards I would even begin to consider replacing him for this Bulls team this season (Paul, Williams, and Westbrook).

On the 20 foot jumper issue, I wonder how much has to do with his inability to get a call when he gets into the lane? For a guy that attacks the basket explosively, it's bizarre to me how little he gets to the line relatively speaking. I heard some announcers speculating that he's so strong that it doesn't look like he's taking contact, so the refs don't call it (no harm, no foul). That seems simplistic to me though, especially in light of the number of times that Westbrook gets to the line with comparable quickness and strength.

He's like Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry. These guys have such great body control and great touch around the rim, that they're able to minimize contact so that they get a good shot at the rim. A lot of the perimeter player who get foul calls initiate and absorb and/or exaggerate the body contact to draw the foul AND then they look to finish the layup.

I got to watch Monta and Steph from floor seats near mid-court last Friday against the Griz. Best seats I've ever had. I could almost hear Hubie Brown's analysis a few seats away. Monta is a superfreak. They're both slight of build, but Monta has an explosiveness and grace that really stands out. I love Steph - he's very skilled and clever with the ball - but Monta really jumps out that close.

 

[the moops]

The Cleveland Cavaliers have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a high-powered Midwestern law firm to investigate their suspicions that the Miami Heat broke NBA tampering rules while pursuing LeBron James, and owner Dan Gilbert has privately vowed he won’t relent until he has a thick binder of findings to drop on the desk of the NBA commissioner, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

This guy needs to get a grip.

 

[Gr00vus]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

Anybody know if this is on national television, I would love to see how Boozer and Rose coexist?

I don't think so, but you can probably find it on channelsurfing

You might be able to catch the end of it on the NBA channel after the Celtics/Blazers game ends.

 

[Gr00vus]

The Cleveland Cavaliers have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a high-powered Midwestern law firm to investigate their suspicions that the Miami Heat broke NBA tampering rules while pursuing LeBron James, and owner Dan Gilbert has privately vowed he won’t relent until he has a thick binder of findings to drop on the desk of the NBA commissioner, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

This guy needs to get a grip.

Yes. Now that, indeed, is pathetic.

 

[whitem0nkey]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

Anybody know if this is on national television, I would love to see how Boozer and Rose coexist?

I don't think so, but you can probably find it on channelsurfing

You might be able to catch the end of it on the NBA channel after the Celtics/Blazers game ends.

his minutes will be limited, I think they said no more than 7 minutes at a time. wait a month once they are in sync with each other.

 

[Kev4029]

Boozer making his Bull debut tonight. The most significant immediate addition is that he will stretch out the big man depth. With either Gibson or Boozer on the floor at all times, the Bulls will typically have a good offensive post player on the floor at all times.

Anybody know if this is on national television, I would love to see how Boozer and Rose coexist?

I don't think so, but you can probably find it on channelsurfing

You might be able to catch the end of it on the NBA channel after the Celtics/Blazers game ends.

I'll look for it while I watch the Nuggets.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

The Cleveland Cavaliers have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a high-powered Midwestern law firm to investigate their suspicions that the Miami Heat broke NBA tampering rules while pursuing LeBron James, and owner Dan Gilbert has privately vowed he won’t relent until he has a thick binder of findings to drop on the desk of the NBA commissioner, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

This guy needs to get a grip.

Yes. Now that, indeed, is pathetic.

It's just a bit sad at this point.