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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

Lol gotta love "fans" of teams they know little about.Landry "Shields" and getting Mel(l)o and Chris Paul to be on the team by just giving up Gallinari, a big contract and Landry Shields.
In the defense of Knick "fans" they have had a joke of a franchise for at least a decade so they haven't watched a whole lot of basketball lately. This doesn't apply to all Knick fans here, but I would imagine there are a fair portion of guys like that.In general I love fans that look for trades that only really work for their home team. I have a buddy that texted me yesterday that the Nuggets should trade Billups for Bosh and also trade JR, Anderson and Balkman for Z Randolph and Mayo.
 
biggamer3 said:
Felton for 3.......Bounces around 3 times and its gooood!!!!Knicks win 11 of their last 12Glad the Rockets have the option to swap first rounders!
For the 1st time in a very long time the Knicks are watchable and relevant - so nice to have Hoops back in NYC.Knew Amare was good but I was not expecting this.Felton has been nothing short of amazing.This great start can only mean one thing . . .Curry's expiring contractShields - a 2nd rd miracle+ GallinariFor CarmelloThen next offseason . . . . Chris Paul.POW . . . LeBron can go **** himself.
Paul over Felton is not an automatic yes at this point when you consider Paul's health (rumored to need microfracture surgery), his salary is double Felton's, and the guys you would need to get rid of to make the big 3 fit under the cap (Wilson Chandler, Turiaf, etc). Also there is no way I include Fields into a deal for Melo his rebounding, toughness, and overall game smarts is off the charts. Denver has absolutely no leverage at this point as there is NO WAY ON EARTH Melo signs an extension with the Nets who are already 10 games under .500. I guarantee you Melo is enamored watching his boy Amare beasting down low to chants of MVP from the Garden. I offer Nuggets Gallinari, Curry, and either Randolph or a 1rd or 2nd pick that can be gained from trading Randolph.
 
Lol gotta love "fans" of teams they know little about.Landry "Shields" and getting Mel(l)o and Chris Paul to be on the team by just giving up Gallinari, a big contract and Landry Shields.
"fans" of teams they know little about composes about 3/4 of the Lakers fanbase. HTH
 
biggamer3 said:
Felton for 3.......Bounces around 3 times and its gooood!!!!Knicks win 11 of their last 12Glad the Rockets have the option to swap first rounders!
For the 1st time in a very long time the Knicks are watchable and relevant - so nice to have Hoops back in NYC.Knew Amare was good but I was not expecting this.Felton has been nothing short of amazing.This great start can only mean one thing . . .Curry's expiring contractShields - a 2nd rd miracle+ GallinariFor CarmelloThen next offseason . . . . Chris Paul.POW . . . LeBron can go **** himself.
Paul over Felton is not an automatic yes at this point when you consider Paul's health (rumored to need microfracture surgery), his salary is double Felton's, and the guys you would need to get rid of to make the big 3 fit under the cap (Wilson Chandler, Turiaf, etc). Also there is no way I include Fields into a deal for Melo his rebounding, toughness, and overall game smarts is off the charts. Denver has absolutely no leverage at this point as there is NO WAY ON EARTH Melo signs an extension with the Nets who are already 10 games under .500. I guarantee you Melo is enamored watching his boy Amare beasting down low to chants of MVP from the Garden. I offer Nuggets Gallinari, Curry, and either Randolph or a 1rd or 2nd pick that can be gained from trading Randolph.
Glad you said it, I am no fool of course CP3 is twice the player Felton is even with Felton's hot season. But i would prefer to keep Felton and sign Melo since that would save a lot of money and we can possibly resign someone like Chandler who would be a great 6th man if we can get Melo in the offseason
 
And there are Knicks fans who want the Knicks to go after Marc Gasol in the offseason, but to tell you the truth i think Amare does better when he is the 5 on the court, another big man standing near him just clogs up the middle and Amare cant beast like he is doing now. All Amare needs to be MVP caliber is an above average PG and wingmen who can rip rebounds

 
Watching this Knicks team reminds me of the old Sacremento Kings team:

Bibby-Felton both above average PG

D Christi- Fields do the garbage work on the court-advantage Knicks no crazy wife in stands that you must wave to all game

Peja-Gallo both have ability to put up points quick

Webber-Amare dominant PF's

Vlade-Turiaf/Wilson Chandler- comparison stops here as Vlade passing and nifty scoring put the Kings offense over the top

 
biggamer3 said:
Felton for 3.......Bounces around 3 times and its gooood!!!!Knicks win 11 of their last 12Glad the Rockets have the option to swap first rounders!
For the 1st time in a very long time the Knicks are watchable and relevant - so nice to have Hoops back in NYC.Knew Amare was good but I was not expecting this.Felton has been nothing short of amazing.This great start can only mean one thing . . .Curry's expiring contractShields - a 2nd rd miracle+ GallinariFor CarmelloThen next offseason . . . . Chris Paul.POW . . . LeBron can go **** himself.
Paul over Felton is not an automatic yes at this point when you consider Paul's health (rumored to need microfracture surgery), his salary is double Felton's, and the guys you would need to get rid of to make the big 3 fit under the cap (Wilson Chandler, Turiaf, etc). Also there is no way I include Fields into a deal for Melo his rebounding, toughness, and overall game smarts is off the charts. Denver has absolutely no leverage at this point as there is NO WAY ON EARTH Melo signs an extension with the Nets who are already 10 games under .500. I guarantee you Melo is enamored watching his boy Amare beasting down low to chants of MVP from the Garden. I offer Nuggets Gallinari, Curry, and either Randolph or a 1rd or 2nd pick that can be gained from trading Randolph.
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
 
And there are Knicks fans who want the Knicks to go after Marc Gasol in the offseason, but to tell you the truth i think Amare does better when he is the 5 on the court, another big man standing near him just clogs up the middle and Amare cant beast like he is doing now. All Amare needs to be MVP caliber is an above average PG and wingmen who can rip rebounds
Amare gets destroyed by other quality big men. If the use him at the 5 the Knicks will never be relevant at the Championship level. I would think time in PHX would have made that abundantly clear.
 
And there are Knicks fans who want the Knicks to go after Marc Gasol in the offseason, but to tell you the truth i think Amare does better when he is the 5 on the court, another big man standing near him just clogs up the middle and Amare cant beast like he is doing now. All Amare needs to be MVP caliber is an above average PG and wingmen who can rip rebounds
This is great for the regular season and first round exits. Amare is not a starting center on a title contender.
 
And there are Knicks fans who want the Knicks to go after Marc Gasol in the offseason, but to tell you the truth i think Amare does better when he is the 5 on the court, another big man standing near him just clogs up the middle and Amare cant beast like he is doing now. All Amare needs to be MVP caliber is an above average PG and wingmen who can rip rebounds
This is great for the regular season and first round exits. Amare is not a starting center on a title contender.
But they could play zone!
 
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Yes, from a Knicks perspective why give away assets when its clear that Melo wants to come to NY. Gallinari is a very nice player who is a better trade piece than what the Nuggets will receive in a trade from a Melo rental to say NJ. Curry is a fat tub of goo but he does present $ savings. Prior to the season the Pacers offered a 1st rd pick for Randolph who is still on rookie deal and is only 21 years old recieving a 1st rd pick for him doesnt seem like a stretch. Also it doesnt look like Azubuike will play this season so including him into a deal for Melo would allow Nuggets more money (3 mil from insurance). I realize from a fan perspective money savings doesnt matter but for owners its a pressing concern. Nuggets are receiving pennies on the dollar but its better than nothing. I got the CP3 microfracture tidbit from a Hornets messageboard perhaps it is overstated but a concern nonetheless.
 
Heat-Jazz should be a good game tonight. That is as long as LeBron doesn't go into wannabe hero mode like he usually does against good teams.* *Heat are 4-6 when LeBron attempts 17 or more field goals 10-2 when he doesn't.
Seventeen? And ten is your sample size?Wow.
Another almost triple double, 30+ points, and a road win against a good team . . . I'm surprised he didn't post some youtube clip of Lebron taking a cup of Gatorade from the assistant while not smiling which clearly shows LeBron is a selfish #######.
 
Heat-Jazz should be a good game tonight. That is as long as LeBron doesn't go into wannabe hero mode like he usually does against good teams.* *Heat are 4-6 when LeBron attempts 17 or more field goals 10-2 when he doesn't.
Seventeen? And ten is your sample size?Wow.
Another almost triple double, 30+ points, and a road win against a good team . . . I'm surprised he didn't post some youtube clip of Lebron taking a cup of Gatorade from the assistant while not smiling which clearly shows LeBron is a selfish #######.
Almost as good as Andrea Bargnani or Zach Randolph last night :shrug:
 
Almost as good as Andrea Bargnani or Zach Randolph last night :shrug:
The funniest part of your obsession is just imagining if Lebron was on the Lakers and Kobe was on Miami.You would be railing Kobe for raping a girl and demanding out of Cleveland, while defending Lebron for taking 17+ shots in losing efforts because his team was struggling and he was trying to get their offense moving.
 
Heat-Jazz should be a good game tonight. That is as long as LeBron doesn't go into wannabe hero mode like he usually does against good teams.* *Heat are 4-6 when LeBron attempts 17 or more field goals 10-2 when he doesn't.
Seventeen? And ten is your sample size?Wow.
Another almost triple double, 30+ points, and a road win against a good team . . . I'm surprised he didn't post some youtube clip of Lebron taking a cup of Gatorade from the assistant while not smiling which clearly shows LeBron is a selfish #######.
Almost as good as Andrea Bargnani or Zach Randolph last night :shrug:
:thumbdown:
 
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Yes, from a Knicks perspective why give away assets when its clear that Melo wants to come to NY. Gallinari is a very nice player who is a better trade piece than what the Nuggets will receive in a trade from a Melo rental to say NJ. Curry is a fat tub of goo but he does present $ savings. Prior to the season the Pacers offered a 1st rd pick for Randolph who is still on rookie deal and is only 21 years old recieving a 1st rd pick for him doesnt seem like a stretch. Also it doesnt look like Azubuike will play this season so including him into a deal for Melo would allow Nuggets more money (3 mil from insurance). I realize from a fan perspective money savings doesnt matter but for owners its a pressing concern. Nuggets are receiving pennies on the dollar but its better than nothing. I got the CP3 microfracture tidbit from a Hornets messageboard perhaps it is overstated but a concern nonetheless.
Paul's knee is definitely an issue, but its very well could be a different, and more serious, issue from what you are hearing. From what I understand, if Paul's knee continues to degrade similar to Roy's (they had a similar procedure to remove the meniscus - I think Roy had the entire thing removed and Paul only had a portion) there is no fix. Roy's knee is bone on bone contact and microfracture surgery won't have much if any effect.You keep speaking from the Knicks prospective, of course they would rather give up as little as possible for Melo. The issue is I highly doubt the Nuggets would want the trash you are trying to throw their way. I will guarantee that there is another team, if the Nuggets were to go this route, that would offer more than Gallinari + expiring for a February to June rental. Just to throw out a couple, how about the Hornets send Okafor, Thorton and a 1st, or how about the Rockets send Hill, Brooks and a 1st or Lakers send Bynum and Brown or Atlanta sends Josh Smith or NJ sends Troy Murphy, T Williams and Morrow. There will be a far better offer than Gallinari. And on the money issue, what do you think will make a bigger impact on the Nuggets financials, saving 5 or 6 million dollars in a Melo trade and getting Gallinari and filler while showing you are raising the white flag, or holding on to Melo while giving your fans the impression that they are trying to make things work and trying to win a championship while probably getting knocked off in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs?I'm willing to guess that the possible 6 million dollar saving will be more than offset by having fans coming to the games from Feb to June and getting an every round or two or maybe even three of playoff money. Plus, in the future (next season) fans will be more willing to watch a crappy team that wasn't perceived as waiving the white flag and giving up on the franchise's best player in history than a crappy team that did it to themselves. The Cavs have the 2nd highest attendance this year, if they traded Lebron for somebody like Gallinari mid season last year how many fewer people would be showing up for games? I would say at least 5,000.
 
Heat-Jazz should be a good game tonight. That is as long as LeBron doesn't go into wannabe hero mode like he usually does against good teams.* *Heat are 4-6 when LeBron attempts 17 or more field goals 10-2 when he doesn't.
Seventeen? And ten is your sample size?Wow.
Another almost triple double, 30+ points, and a road win against a good team . . . I'm surprised he didn't post some youtube clip of Lebron taking a cup of Gatorade from the assistant while not smiling which clearly shows LeBron is a selfish #######.
Almost as good as Andrea Bargnani or Zach Randolph last night :shrug:
:lmao:Holy #### this is gold.
 
Paul's knee is definitely an issue, but its very well could be a different, and more serious, issue from what you are hearing. From what I understand, if Paul's knee continues to degrade similar to Roy's (they had a similar procedure to remove the meniscus - I think Roy had the entire thing removed and Paul only had a portion) there is no fix. Roy's knee is bone on bone contact and microfracture surgery won't have much if any effect.

You keep speaking from the Knicks prospective, of course they would rather give up as little as possible for Melo. The issue is I highly doubt the Nuggets would want the trash you are trying to throw their way. I will guarantee that there is another team, if the Nuggets were to go this route, that would offer more than Gallinari + expiring for a February to June rental. Just to throw out a couple, how about the Hornets send Okafor, Thorton and a 1st, or how about the Rockets send Hill, Brooks and a 1st or Lakers send Bynum and Brown or Atlanta sends Josh Smith or NJ sends Troy Murphy, T Williams and Morrow. There will be a far better offer than Gallinari. And on the money issue, what do you think will make a bigger impact on the Nuggets financials, saving 5 or 6 million dollars in a Melo trade and getting Gallinari and filler while showing you are raising the white flag, or holding on to Melo while giving your fans the impression that they are trying to make things work and trying to win a championship while probably getting knocked off in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs?

I'm willing to guess that the possible 6 million dollar saving will be more than offset by having fans coming to the games from Feb to June and getting an every round or two or maybe even three of playoff money. Plus, in the future (next season) fans will be more willing to watch a crappy team that wasn't perceived as waiving the white flag and giving up on the franchise's best player in history than a crappy team that did it to themselves. The Cavs have the 2nd highest attendance this year, if they traded Lebron for somebody like Gallinari mid season last year how many fewer people would be showing up for games? I would say at least 5,000.
You make some good points. Would the Lakers, Hawks, etc take the risk and give away a player of the caliber you stated without an extension from Melo I would guess not. And as far trading for pennies on the dollar Denver has apparently decided to press forward if Melo refuses an extension.Denver has resolved to trade Carmelo Anthony if he does not sign a contract extension with the Nuggets before the trade deadline.

Denver believes that Anthony, who is described as fixated on the prospect of joining the Knicks, is willing to wait out the entire season and sign as a free agent in New York.

But the Nuggets are not enamored with the players the Knicks would offer to acquire Anthony by trade before the deadline -- Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph -- and still hold out hope of sending Anthony to the Nets.

Rival executives doubt that Anthony would agree to a contract extension with New Jersey but sources in close contact with the superstar's representatives say that the Nets remain an option for him.

If Anthony does sign off on a move to New Jersey, the Nets' trade offer would center around Derrick Favors, Devin Harris and draft picks. The Nuggets reportedly are no longer interested in taking back long-term contracts to fill the gap that would be left by Anthony -- by seeking to acquire Andre Iguodala for instance -- but are apparently willing to take on Harris, whose contract runs two more years after this season.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a.../#ixzz17dnqtZux

 
Anybody care to guess Lebron's +/- for the night? I'll give you a couple hints...Chris Bosh +19Dwyane Wade +18Lebron James ?
Nobody's going to respond thoughtfully to you. Why?1. It's obvious you have an agenda and won't listen to reason as to why +/- is a bad indicator of single-game performance.2. You probably wouldn't understand it if you tried, given your past posts.3. If you did understand it, instead of admitting it, you'd resort to some sort of cheap or personal shot to change the subject.So, we'll just continue to laugh at you. Better to be amused at the ridiculousness than get frustrated at the three outcomes above.
 
Nobody's going to respond thoughtfully to you. Why?1. It's obvious you have an agenda and won't listen to reason as to why <X> is a bad <statement | thought process>.2. You probably wouldn't understand it if you tried, given your past posts.3. If you did understand it, instead of admitting it, you'd resort to some sort of cheap or personal shot to change the subject.So, we'll just continue to laugh at you. Better to be amused at the ridiculousness than get frustrated at the three outcomes above.
This is the exact template I use for considering about 96.23475% of the posts on the FBGs boards. Thanks for laying it out so nicely.
 
Anybody care to guess Lebron's +/- for the night? I'll give you a couple hints...Chris Bosh +19Dwyane Wade +18Lebron James ?
Nobody's going to respond thoughtfully to you. Why?1. It's obvious you have an agenda and won't listen to reason as to why +/- is a bad indicator of single-game performance.2. You probably wouldn't understand it if you tried, given your past posts.3. If you did understand it, instead of admitting it, you'd resort to some sort of cheap or personal shot to change the subject.So, we'll just continue to laugh at you. Better to be amused at the ridiculousness than get frustrated at the three outcomes above.
Incorrect, we were looking for the value "0". Thanks for playing.
 
biggamer3 said:
Felton for 3.......Bounces around 3 times and its gooood!!!!Knicks win 11 of their last 12Glad the Rockets have the option to swap first rounders!
For the 1st time in a very long time the Knicks are watchable and relevant - so nice to have Hoops back in NYC.Knew Amare was good but I was not expecting this.Felton has been nothing short of amazing.This great start can only mean one thing . . .Curry's expiring contractShields - a 2nd rd miracle+ GallinariFor CarmelloThen next offseason . . . . Chris Paul.POW . . . LeBron can go **** himself.
Paul over Felton is not an automatic yes at this point when you consider Paul's health (rumored to need microfracture surgery), his salary is double Felton's, and the guys you would need to get rid of to make the big 3 fit under the cap (Wilson Chandler, Turiaf, etc). Also there is no way I include Fields into a deal for Melo his rebounding, toughness, and overall game smarts is off the charts. Denver has absolutely no leverage at this point as there is NO WAY ON EARTH Melo signs an extension with the Nets who are already 10 games under .500. I guarantee you Melo is enamored watching his boy Amare beasting down low to chants of MVP from the Garden. I offer Nuggets Gallinari, Curry, and either Randolph or a 1rd or 2nd pick that can be gained from trading Randolph.
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Everyday that goes by the Nuggest are in a worse position as no way he goes to Nets as he won't sign the extension. Who does that benefit (the Knicks of course). I doubt someone like the Bulls step up and acquire him but Nuggest made a huge mistake in the off season.
 
Anybody care to guess Lebron's +/- for the night? I'll give you a couple hints...Chris Bosh +19Dwyane Wade +18Lebron James ?
Nobody's going to respond thoughtfully to you. Why?1. It's obvious you have an agenda and won't listen to reason as to why +/- is a bad indicator of single-game performance.2. You probably wouldn't understand it if you tried, given your past posts.3. If you did understand it, instead of admitting it, you'd resort to some sort of cheap or personal shot to change the subject.So, we'll just continue to laugh at you. Better to be amused at the ridiculousness than get frustrated at the three outcomes above.
Incorrect, we were looking for the value "0". Thanks for playing.
Perhas you should post Kobe's +/- from last night so we can compare.
 
In the spirit of the hyperbole subheading I know nominate Amare as the greatest player in the history of the NBA. Really just a matter of time until we see the Kobe vs Lebron vs Amare thread.

 
biggamer3 said:
Felton for 3.......Bounces around 3 times and its gooood!!!!Knicks win 11 of their last 12Glad the Rockets have the option to swap first rounders!
For the 1st time in a very long time the Knicks are watchable and relevant - so nice to have Hoops back in NYC.Knew Amare was good but I was not expecting this.Felton has been nothing short of amazing.This great start can only mean one thing . . .Curry's expiring contractShields - a 2nd rd miracle+ GallinariFor CarmelloThen next offseason . . . . Chris Paul.POW . . . LeBron can go **** himself.
Paul over Felton is not an automatic yes at this point when you consider Paul's health (rumored to need microfracture surgery), his salary is double Felton's, and the guys you would need to get rid of to make the big 3 fit under the cap (Wilson Chandler, Turiaf, etc). Also there is no way I include Fields into a deal for Melo his rebounding, toughness, and overall game smarts is off the charts. Denver has absolutely no leverage at this point as there is NO WAY ON EARTH Melo signs an extension with the Nets who are already 10 games under .500. I guarantee you Melo is enamored watching his boy Amare beasting down low to chants of MVP from the Garden. I offer Nuggets Gallinari, Curry, and either Randolph or a 1rd or 2nd pick that can be gained from trading Randolph.
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Everyday that goes by the Nuggest are in a worse position as no way he goes to Nets as he won't sign the extension. Who does that benefit (the Knicks of course). I doubt someone like the Bulls step up and acquire him but Nuggest made a huge mistake in the off season.
If you are convinced that Melo won't take an extension with the Nets, the Nuggets didn't make a mistake because the Nets wouldn't have traded Harris, Favors and everything for Melo if he wasn't going to sign the extension. How does waiting put the Nuggets in a worse position? You think the Knicks would pull their ####ty offer of Gallinari, Randolph and Curry? Highly unlikely. I'm not going to run through the salary cap end of things again, but if you go back a couple pages you can see how I broke down the Knicks situation. This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
 
This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
I agree with you about Knicks fans. We saw their sense of entitlement with LeBron even after it was obvious to the rest of the world that he wouldn't sign with them. However, I think they are right about Melo. Personally I think he'll be sign-and-traded this summer (or fall if there is a long lock-out) to the Knicks to create a trade exception (assuming trade exceptions still exist). The Nuggets won't get a suitable, fair offer at trade deadline and will keep him just like the Suns kept Amare and the Raptors kept Bosh.
 
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This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
I agree with you about Knicks fans. We saw their sense of entitlement with LeBron even after it was obvious to the rest of the world that he wouldn't sign with them. However, I think they are right about Melo. Personally I think he'll be sign-and-traded this summer (or fall if there is a long lock-out) to the Knicks to create a trade exception (assuming trade exceptions still exist). The Nuggets won't get a suitable, fair offer at trade deadline and will keep him just like the Suns kept Amare and the Raptors kept Bosh.
I agree that they won't get a fair offer, but Gallinari+Filler isn't 60 or 70 cents on the dollar, its 10 cents on the dollar. Simmonjm did post a link to a story saying the Nuggets have decided that they will trade Melo by the deadline if he doesn't agree to an extension, a report that I also read last night on CBS I think, and if that's true they won't be doing a S&T this summer. I don't expect the Nuggets to get a great offer in return, but nearly every team in the league would offer a talent similar or better than Gallinari for even a rental of Melo.
 
This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
I agree with you about Knicks fans. We saw their sense of entitlement with LeBron even after it was obvious to the rest of the world that he wouldn't sign with them. However, I think they are right about Melo. Personally I think he'll be sign-and-traded this summer (or fall if there is a long lock-out) to the Knicks to create a trade exception (assuming trade exceptions still exist). The Nuggets won't get a suitable, fair offer at trade deadline and will keep him just like the Suns kept Amare and the Raptors kept Bosh.
I agree that they won't get a fair offer, but Gallinari+Filler isn't 60 or 70 cents on the dollar, its 10 cents on the dollar. Simmonjm did post a link to a story saying the Nuggets have decided that they will trade Melo by the deadline if he doesn't agree to an extension, a report that I also read last night on CBS I think, and if that's true they won't be doing a S&T this summer. I don't expect the Nuggets to get a great offer in return, but nearly every team in the league would offer a talent similar or better than Gallinari for even a rental of Melo.
But the Nuggets won't receive 60 or 70 cents on the dollar for Melo as a rental. It's too risky for the acquiring team. Even though "sources" are saying the Nuggets will trade him by the deadline, it doesn't mean it will happen. "Sources" often say a lot of stuff that doesn't end up happening. In fact, I think they are wrong more often than they are right.
 
This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
I agree with you about Knicks fans. We saw their sense of entitlement with LeBron even after it was obvious to the rest of the world that he wouldn't sign with them. However, I think they are right about Melo. Personally I think he'll be sign-and-traded this summer (or fall if there is a long lock-out) to the Knicks to create a trade exception (assuming trade exceptions still exist). The Nuggets won't get a suitable, fair offer at trade deadline and will keep him just like the Suns kept Amare and the Raptors kept Bosh.
I agree that they won't get a fair offer, but Gallinari+Filler isn't 60 or 70 cents on the dollar, its 10 cents on the dollar. Simmonjm did post a link to a story saying the Nuggets have decided that they will trade Melo by the deadline if he doesn't agree to an extension, a report that I also read last night on CBS I think, and if that's true they won't be doing a S&T this summer. I don't expect the Nuggets to get a great offer in return, but nearly every team in the league would offer a talent similar or better than Gallinari for even a rental of Melo.
But the Nuggets won't receive 60 or 70 cents on the dollar for Melo as a rental. It's too risky for the acquiring team. Even though "sources" are saying the Nuggets will trade him by the deadline, it doesn't mean it will happen. "Sources" often say a lot of stuff that doesn't end up happening. In fact, I think they are wrong more often than they are right.
They may not get 60 or 70 cents, but they sure as hell could get more than these Knicks fans think they have to give up. Also, a sign and trade next year for the Nuggets with a deal similar the amare, boozer, lebron and bosh deals won't happen. The Nuggets will likely be below the cap next year if they don't trade Melo (JR, Martin, Melo off the books, Nene with a PO and Billups with a small buyout option) so they can't get a trade exception so if all they get is a late 1st round pick or a 2nd rounder gives them no incentive to help out Melo and his new team.
 
Anybody care to guess Lebron's +/- for the night? I'll give you a couple hints...Chris Bosh +19Dwyane Wade +18Lebron James ?
Nobody's going to respond thoughtfully to you. Why?1. It's obvious you have an agenda and won't listen to reason as to why +/- is a bad indicator of single-game performance.2. You probably wouldn't understand it if you tried, given your past posts.3. If you did understand it, instead of admitting it, you'd resort to some sort of cheap or personal shot to change the subject.So, we'll just continue to laugh at you. Better to be amused at the ridiculousness than get frustrated at the three outcomes above.
Incorrect, we were looking for the value "0". Thanks for playing.
Perhas you should post Kobe's +/- from last night so we can compare.
There you go again bringing Kobe into the conversation when nobody is talking about him.
 
This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
I agree with you about Knicks fans. We saw their sense of entitlement with LeBron even after it was obvious to the rest of the world that he wouldn't sign with them. However, I think they are right about Melo. Personally I think he'll be sign-and-traded this summer (or fall if there is a long lock-out) to the Knicks to create a trade exception (assuming trade exceptions still exist). The Nuggets won't get a suitable, fair offer at trade deadline and will keep him just like the Suns kept Amare and the Raptors kept Bosh.
I agree that they won't get a fair offer, but Gallinari+Filler isn't 60 or 70 cents on the dollar, its 10 cents on the dollar. Simmonjm did post a link to a story saying the Nuggets have decided that they will trade Melo by the deadline if he doesn't agree to an extension, a report that I also read last night on CBS I think, and if that's true they won't be doing a S&T this summer. I don't expect the Nuggets to get a great offer in return, but nearly every team in the league would offer a talent similar or better than Gallinari for even a rental of Melo.
But the Nuggets won't receive 60 or 70 cents on the dollar for Melo as a rental. It's too risky for the acquiring team. Even though "sources" are saying the Nuggets will trade him by the deadline, it doesn't mean it will happen. "Sources" often say a lot of stuff that doesn't end up happening. In fact, I think they are wrong more often than they are right.
They may not get 60 or 70 cents, but they sure as hell could get more than these Knicks fans think they have to give up. Also, a sign and trade next year for the Nuggets with a deal similar the amare, boozer, lebron and bosh deals won't happen. The Nuggets will likely be below the cap next year if they don't trade Melo (JR, Martin, Melo off the books, Nene with a PO and Billups with a small buyout option) so they can't get a trade exception so if all they get is a late 1st round pick or a 2nd rounder gives them no incentive to help out Melo and his new team.
Thanks for the correction about the trade exception. That does hurt the Nuggets a bit in this case although, as you mention, they can still get a pick in return. Maybe they will pull the trigger and get something of value more than Gallo but usually we don't see this happen. Trades like this rarely go down. I think it's more likely that the Nuggets hold out looking for more value until it's too late and the deadline passes than it is that they accept 20 cents (or whatever) on the dollar. What makes it even more difficult is the Nuggets are a playoff team right now. If they were 10 games under .500, it would be much easier to part ways with him.
 
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Yes, from a Knicks perspective why give away assets when its clear that Melo wants to come to NY. Gallinari is a very nice player who is a better trade piece than what the Nuggets will receive in a trade from a Melo rental to say NJ. Curry is a fat tub of goo but he does present $ savings. Prior to the season the Pacers offered a 1st rd pick for Randolph who is still on rookie deal and is only 21 years old recieving a 1st rd pick for him doesnt seem like a stretch. Also it doesnt look like Azubuike will play this season so including him into a deal for Melo would allow Nuggets more money (3 mil from insurance). I realize from a fan perspective money savings doesnt matter but for owners its a pressing concern. Nuggets are receiving pennies on the dollar but its better than nothing. I got the CP3 microfracture tidbit from a Hornets messageboard perhaps it is overstated but a concern nonetheless.
Paul's knee is definitely an issue, but its very well could be a different, and more serious, issue from what you are hearing. From what I understand, if Paul's knee continues to degrade similar to Roy's (they had a similar procedure to remove the meniscus - I think Roy had the entire thing removed and Paul only had a portion) there is no fix. Roy's knee is bone on bone contact and microfracture surgery won't have much if any effect.You keep speaking from the Knicks prospective, of course they would rather give up as little as possible for Melo. The issue is I highly doubt the Nuggets would want the trash you are trying to throw their way. I will guarantee that there is another team, if the Nuggets were to go this route, that would offer more than Gallinari + expiring for a February to June rental. Just to throw out a couple, how about the Hornets send Okafor, Thorton and a 1st, or how about the Rockets send Hill, Brooks and a 1st or Lakers send Bynum and Brown or Atlanta sends Josh Smith or NJ sends Troy Murphy, T Williams and Morrow. There will be a far better offer than Gallinari. And on the money issue, what do you think will make a bigger impact on the Nuggets financials, saving 5 or 6 million dollars in a Melo trade and getting Gallinari and filler while showing you are raising the white flag, or holding on to Melo while giving your fans the impression that they are trying to make things work and trying to win a championship while probably getting knocked off in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs?

I'm willing to guess that the possible 6 million dollar saving will be more than offset by having fans coming to the games from Feb to June and getting an every round or two or maybe even three of playoff money. Plus, in the future (next season) fans will be more willing to watch a crappy team that wasn't perceived as waiving the white flag and giving up on the franchise's best player in history than a crappy team that did it to themselves. The Cavs have the 2nd highest attendance this year, if they traded Lebron for somebody like Gallinari mid season last year how many fewer people would be showing up for games? I would say at least 5,000.
This makes absolutely no sense.
 
If all they can get is a bunch of crap trades will the Nuggets just let him walk and get the cap space back? Seems like the cap space is a better asset than a bunch of marginal players. They don't have to make a trade, do they?

 
If you are convinced that Melo won't take an extension with the Nets, the Nuggets didn't make a mistake because the Nets wouldn't have traded Harris, Favors and everything for Melo if he wasn't going to sign the extension. How does waiting put the Nuggets in a worse position? You think the Knicks would pull their ####ty offer of Gallinari, Randolph and Curry? Highly unlikely. I'm not going to run through the salary cap end of things again, but if you go back a couple pages you can see how I broke down the Knicks situation. This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
Denver probably won't get an offer to their liking and Melo will be a sign and trade free agent landing in NY.
 
If you are convinced that Melo won't take an extension with the Nets, the Nuggets didn't make a mistake because the Nets wouldn't have traded Harris, Favors and everything for Melo if he wasn't going to sign the extension. How does waiting put the Nuggets in a worse position? You think the Knicks would pull their ####ty offer of Gallinari, Randolph and Curry? Highly unlikely. I'm not going to run through the salary cap end of things again, but if you go back a couple pages you can see how I broke down the Knicks situation. This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
Denver probably won't get an offer to their liking and Melo will be a sign and trade free agent landing in NY.
As I wrote about above, I highly doubt the Nuggets will make a sign and trade with Melo like the 4 or 5 sign and trades this offseason. They will be below the cap so they won't generate a trade exception and something like a 2nd round pick isn't worth helping Melo and the Knicks get this done.
 
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Yes, from a Knicks perspective why give away assets when its clear that Melo wants to come to NY. Gallinari is a very nice player who is a better trade piece than what the Nuggets will receive in a trade from a Melo rental to say NJ. Curry is a fat tub of goo but he does present $ savings. Prior to the season the Pacers offered a 1st rd pick for Randolph who is still on rookie deal and is only 21 years old recieving a 1st rd pick for him doesnt seem like a stretch. Also it doesnt look like Azubuike will play this season so including him into a deal for Melo would allow Nuggets more money (3 mil from insurance). I realize from a fan perspective money savings doesnt matter but for owners its a pressing concern. Nuggets are receiving pennies on the dollar but its better than nothing. I got the CP3 microfracture tidbit from a Hornets messageboard perhaps it is overstated but a concern nonetheless.
Paul's knee is definitely an issue, but its very well could be a different, and more serious, issue from what you are hearing. From what I understand, if Paul's knee continues to degrade similar to Roy's (they had a similar procedure to remove the meniscus - I think Roy had the entire thing removed and Paul only had a portion) there is no fix. Roy's knee is bone on bone contact and microfracture surgery won't have much if any effect.You keep speaking from the Knicks prospective, of course they would rather give up as little as possible for Melo. The issue is I highly doubt the Nuggets would want the trash you are trying to throw their way. I will guarantee that there is another team, if the Nuggets were to go this route, that would offer more than Gallinari + expiring for a February to June rental. Just to throw out a couple, how about the Hornets send Okafor, Thorton and a 1st, or how about the Rockets send Hill, Brooks and a 1st or Lakers send Bynum and Brown or Atlanta sends Josh Smith or NJ sends Troy Murphy, T Williams and Morrow. There will be a far better offer than Gallinari. And on the money issue, what do you think will make a bigger impact on the Nuggets financials, saving 5 or 6 million dollars in a Melo trade and getting Gallinari and filler while showing you are raising the white flag, or holding on to Melo while giving your fans the impression that they are trying to make things work and trying to win a championship while probably getting knocked off in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs?

I'm willing to guess that the possible 6 million dollar saving will be more than offset by having fans coming to the games from Feb to June and getting an every round or two or maybe even three of playoff money. Plus, in the future (next season) fans will be more willing to watch a crappy team that wasn't perceived as waiving the white flag and giving up on the franchise's best player in history than a crappy team that did it to themselves. The Cavs have the 2nd highest attendance this year, if they traded Lebron for somebody like Gallinari mid season last year how many fewer people would be showing up for games? I would say at least 5,000.
This makes absolutely no sense.
The Cavs fans are showing up to support the organization, they would not have been showing support this season if the Cavs gave Lebron away in February.
 
Moe. said:
If all they can get is a bunch of crap trades will the Nuggets just let him walk and get the cap space back? Seems like the cap space is a better asset than a bunch of marginal players. They don't have to make a trade, do they?
Thats what I've been saying they should do if they don't get a good trade since back in September when this stuff all started to come out. The NJN trade was worthwhile when we thought that was going down, but not all these bunk trades people think they are going to get. Denver isn't void of leverage, Melo is REALLY gonna want that extend and trade to get the tons of extra money and most of the teams that have any chance at getting Melo (including NY) are going to need a trade to get him under the cap. There is a chance that after the new CBA some of these teams with some free cap space (NJ, NY, etc) will see that cap space shrink significantly.
 
With all this talk of Felton's greatness we need some serious basketball discussion in this thread...

Top 20 NBA players who is a good playa (#20-11)

Top 20 NBA players who is a good playa (#10-1)
...Like always, the Lakers are overrated. Kobe's wife and Vujacic's gf (Sharapova) don't belong anywhere near the top 20. West coast bias. ETA: Odom's ranking is well deserved, dragging that home every night is quite the accomplishment, hes a great man for jumping on that grenade and saving millions of other men the horrors which would surely happen in the bedroom with that beast.
 
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Doc Rivers is the best "draw a play out of a time out" coach Ive ever seen.
You probably dont watch enough Celtics games to make that statement but tonights play to win the game was unbelievable. You have to give Doc credit (which I rarely do). Tonights win is all due to Doc Rivers. However, there are plenty of nights where Doc plays the Pierce isolation card at the end of games and it very rarely works.
 
And there are Knicks fans who want the Knicks to go after Marc Gasol in the offseason, but to tell you the truth i think Amare does better when he is the 5 on the court, another big man standing near him just clogs up the middle and Amare cant beast like he is doing now. All Amare needs to be MVP caliber is an above average PG and wingmen who can rip rebounds
Amare gets destroyed by other quality big men. If the use him at the 5 the Knicks will never be relevant at the Championship level. I would think time in PHX would have made that abundantly clear.
Actually, I'd say it proves that he can play the 5 on a team is major championship contender.
 
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Kev4029 said:
Steelfan7 said:
Do you really believe what you just said? Why do you think the Nuggets would rather have Gallinari Curry and a 2nd rounder than 6 more months of his play? Felton even if he were to continue playing at the level he is playing now is still not a top 10 pg and would be borderline top 15 and you would rather have him then Paul, even with the injury concerns? And for what its worth, Paul had a similar surgery to Roy's a couple years ago, so when/if his knee worsens, I don't think microfracture is the solution.
Yes, from a Knicks perspective why give away assets when its clear that Melo wants to come to NY. Gallinari is a very nice player who is a better trade piece than what the Nuggets will receive in a trade from a Melo rental to say NJ. Curry is a fat tub of goo but he does present $ savings. Prior to the season the Pacers offered a 1st rd pick for Randolph who is still on rookie deal and is only 21 years old recieving a 1st rd pick for him doesnt seem like a stretch. Also it doesnt look like Azubuike will play this season so including him into a deal for Melo would allow Nuggets more money (3 mil from insurance). I realize from a fan perspective money savings doesnt matter but for owners its a pressing concern. Nuggets are receiving pennies on the dollar but its better than nothing. I got the CP3 microfracture tidbit from a Hornets messageboard perhaps it is overstated but a concern nonetheless.
Paul's knee is definitely an issue, but its very well could be a different, and more serious, issue from what you are hearing. From what I understand, if Paul's knee continues to degrade similar to Roy's (they had a similar procedure to remove the meniscus - I think Roy had the entire thing removed and Paul only had a portion) there is no fix. Roy's knee is bone on bone contact and microfracture surgery won't have much if any effect.You keep speaking from the Knicks prospective, of course they would rather give up as little as possible for Melo. The issue is I highly doubt the Nuggets would want the trash you are trying to throw their way. I will guarantee that there is another team, if the Nuggets were to go this route, that would offer more than Gallinari + expiring for a February to June rental. Just to throw out a couple, how about the Hornets send Okafor, Thorton and a 1st, or how about the Rockets send Hill, Brooks and a 1st or Lakers send Bynum and Brown or Atlanta sends Josh Smith or NJ sends Troy Murphy, T Williams and Morrow. There will be a far better offer than Gallinari. And on the money issue, what do you think will make a bigger impact on the Nuggets financials, saving 5 or 6 million dollars in a Melo trade and getting Gallinari and filler while showing you are raising the white flag, or holding on to Melo while giving your fans the impression that they are trying to make things work and trying to win a championship while probably getting knocked off in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs?

I'm willing to guess that the possible 6 million dollar saving will be more than offset by having fans coming to the games from Feb to June and getting an every round or two or maybe even three of playoff money. Plus, in the future (next season) fans will be more willing to watch a crappy team that wasn't perceived as waiving the white flag and giving up on the franchise's best player in history than a crappy team that did it to themselves. The Cavs have the 2nd highest attendance this year, if they traded Lebron for somebody like Gallinari mid season last year how many fewer people would be showing up for games? I would say at least 5,000.
This makes absolutely no sense.
The Cavs fans are showing up to support the organization, they would not have been showing support this season if the Cavs gave Lebron away in February.
Cavs fans are showing up because they were forced to renew their season ticket plans well before Lebron left. But I agree that if the Cavs gave away Lebron in February, for Gallinari let's say, then the attendence this year would be way down....not only because the Cavs were title contenders. There were also alot of people tossing around not re-upping in case he leaves, including the group I was in with. Turns out that was the shark move. Next year will be the time to fully gauge the loss of Lebron...butts in seats and businesses that thrived on Cavs' sellouts during the winter.Also, aren't attendance numbers based on tickets sold....or is it who actually passes through the gate? The crowds at the Q seem to be shrinking even though all (I think) the games are sold out. I have not looked closely at the numbers, I'm just eyeballing it watching games.

 
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Do my Rockets' insiders here have any scoop on Brooks playing tonight...and if they plan on bringing his all-world talents off the bench for a game or two, maybe limiting his minutes until next week?

 
Cavs fans are showing up because they were forced to renew their season ticket plans well before Lebron left. But I agree that if the Cavs gave away Lebron in February, for Gallinari let's say, then the attendence this year would be way down....not only because the Cavs were title contenders. There were also alot of people tossing around not re-upping in case he leaves, including the group I was in with. Turns out that was the shark move. Next year will be the time to fully gauge the loss of Lebron...butts in seats and businesses that thrived on Cavs' sellouts during the winter.

Also, aren't attendance numbers based on tickets sold....or is it who actually passes through the gate? The crowds at the Q seem to be shrinking even though all (I think) the games are sold out. I have not looked closely at the numbers, I'm just eyeballing it watching games.
I'm sure the attendance is going to take a huge hit next year unless the Cavs can somehow pull out a miracle trade and land a superstar in the draft.I have no idea how the attendance numbers are compiled, I got them from espn and it makes no mention of that. The numbers are kind of interesting for the Cavs, they are selling out every home game so far and have the second highest attendance to home games, but they sure don't travel well, they are averaging under 14,000 fans per game on the road - 1,300 worse than anybody else (Mavs).

 
Kev4029 said:
Steelfan7 said:
If you are convinced that Melo won't take an extension with the Nets, the Nuggets didn't make a mistake because the Nets wouldn't have traded Harris, Favors and everything for Melo if he wasn't going to sign the extension. How does waiting put the Nuggets in a worse position? You think the Knicks would pull their ####ty offer of Gallinari, Randolph and Curry? Highly unlikely. I'm not going to run through the salary cap end of things again, but if you go back a couple pages you can see how I broke down the Knicks situation. This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
Denver probably won't get an offer to their liking and Melo will be a sign and trade free agent landing in NY.
As I wrote about above, I highly doubt the Nuggets will make a sign and trade with Melo like the 4 or 5 sign and trades this offseason. They will be below the cap so they won't generate a trade exception and something like a 2nd round pick isn't worth helping Melo and the Knicks get this done.
They're better off taking Gallo (or Chandler or pick your poison) back then getting nothing. Gallo's much more valuable than you're giving him credit for anyway so I doubt the Knicks would include him in a sign and trade after the season. They should be able to sign Melo this offseason no matter what so that's a top 6 of Melo, Amare, Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields.
 
Kev4029 said:
Steelfan7 said:
If you are convinced that Melo won't take an extension with the Nets, the Nuggets didn't make a mistake because the Nets wouldn't have traded Harris, Favors and everything for Melo if he wasn't going to sign the extension. How does waiting put the Nuggets in a worse position? You think the Knicks would pull their ####ty offer of Gallinari, Randolph and Curry? Highly unlikely. I'm not going to run through the salary cap end of things again, but if you go back a couple pages you can see how I broke down the Knicks situation. This forgone conclusion that he is ending up in NY is ridiculous, and every time a Knicks fan post something about Melo I laugh because you guys, as a group, have very little idea of both how basketball works and even more so how the NBA works.
Denver probably won't get an offer to their liking and Melo will be a sign and trade free agent landing in NY.
As I wrote about above, I highly doubt the Nuggets will make a sign and trade with Melo like the 4 or 5 sign and trades this offseason. They will be below the cap so they won't generate a trade exception and something like a 2nd round pick isn't worth helping Melo and the Knicks get this done.
They're better off taking Gallo (or Chandler or pick your poison) back then getting nothing. Gallo's much more valuable than you're giving him credit for anyway so I doubt the Knicks would include him in a sign and trade after the season. They should be able to sign Melo this offseason no matter what so that's a top 6 of Melo, Amare, Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields.
How valuable is a guy that barely shoots 40% (39% this year) and doesn't do much else? He is a poor defender, poor rebounder, poor shot blocker and really doesn't do anything good. He is supposedly a great 3pt shooter but outside his brief rookie season, he hasn't cracked 40%.
 

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