*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

[JMon348]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

The Nets offer is better than you think - its Lopez (who is nowhere near Howard but a very solid young Center), 2 #1 picks in a great draft (including GS pick which should be good) and taking on Hedo's awful deal which I dont think any other team could do. This is a one time offer as once FA starts Nets cant take on Hedo's salary then Magic use the amnesty on Arenas....if you know Howard is going to leave - the Magic clears a ton of cap space to rebuild, a solid young NBA center which dont grow on trees and 2 #1 picks....I dont think thats a bad deal at all. I still dont think they take it but youthink they will do better than that at the deadline?

I think the dark horse for Howard is the Clippers. They got the pieces and everything I have heard is Howard wants to be in LA.

 

[timschochet]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

The Nets offer is better than you think - its Lopez (who is nowhere near Howard but a very solid young Center), 2 #1 picks in a great draft (including GS pick which should be good) and taking on Hedo's awful deal which I dont think any other team could do. This is a one time offer as once FA starts Nets cant take on Hedo's salary then Magic use the amnesty on Arenas....if you know Howard is going to leave - the Magic clears a ton of cap space to rebuild, a solid young NBA center which dont grow on trees and 2 #1 picks....I dont think thats a bad deal at all. I still dont think they take it but youthink they will do better than that at the deadline?

I think the dark horse for Howard is the Clippers. They got the pieces and everything I have heard is Howard wants to be in LA.

They may have some pieces, but that's not the L.A. that Howard wants to be in.

 

[TobiasFunke]

With the NBA owning the Hornets and all the complaining they were doing about wanting a competitive balance, it's unlikely Paul gets traded in a "salary dump" type move to a top team.

Also FWIW Broussard tweeted today that Paul has no interest in signing a long-term deal with the Celtics.

 

[JMon348]

Rondo isnt as good as Paul, but iirc he has four years at 11 per left on his deal, which is a very team friendly contract for a guy who is arguably one of the top five at his position in the league.

Broussard just tweeted to forget all the Paul to the Celtics talk, his sources say Paul won't sign an extension with them.He has been wrong a lot though.

 

[Kiddnets]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

 

[Premier]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

 

[the moops]

Rondo isnt as good as Paul, but iirc he has four years at 11 per left on his deal, which is a very team friendly contract for a guy who is arguably one of the top five at his position in the league.

Broussard just tweeted to forget all the Paul to the Celtics talk, his sources say Paul won't sign an extension with them.He has been wrong a lot though.

If Paul really wants to go to the Knicks it is going to be for less money than what the Clippers, or Celtics, or whomever can trade for him can offer.

 

[Sammy3469]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

and they still wouldn't be in that bad a place...they clear almost all thier contracts after the 2012-13 season (would be left with one of Arenas or Hedu)...heck even if they lose Howard they'd still be able to make a play for Paul/Deron after this season. Plus having mid round 1st round picks even in a stacked draft is next to useless.Much like the C's desire for Paul or Westbrook (or the Knicks dream of Paul after next year if things stay exactly the same as they are now), this is a pipedream right now.

 

[JMon348]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

The Nets offer is better than you think - its Lopez (who is nowhere near Howard but a very solid young Center), 2 #1 picks in a great draft (including GS pick which should be good) and taking on Hedo's awful deal which I dont think any other team could do. This is a one time offer as once FA starts Nets cant take on Hedo's salary then Magic use the amnesty on Arenas....if you know Howard is going to leave - the Magic clears a ton of cap space to rebuild, a solid young NBA center which dont grow on trees and 2 #1 picks....I dont think thats a bad deal at all. I still dont think they take it but youthink they will do better than that at the deadline?

I think the dark horse for Howard is the Clippers. They got the pieces and everything I have heard is Howard wants to be in LA.

They may have some pieces, but that's not the L.A. that Howard wants to be in.

I don't think/nor do I want Howard in LA.Two reasons, it's probably going to cost Bynum and Odom, I think that's too much. Second, I think Howard's, lets call it a lack of desire, will wear thin with Kobe and you could see some fireworks there. I know they are pretty close friends, constantly complimenting each other in the media, but even though Howard is a phenomenal talent, I just don't think winning titles is the thing motivating him in wanting to play in LA.Now if we could get him for Bynum and some other smaller parts, you would have to do it, but I don't think that's happening.Very interested to see the direction of this team. The goal shouldn't be to look for your next franchise player and the future, it should be to maximize Kobe's prime years left, and try and get another title.

 

[Kiddnets]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

If Orlando did this deal by 2012 they would have a likely top 5 pick (their own), top 10 pick (GS), top 25 pick (Nets), very solid young Center and close to $40M in cap room to sign 2 very good players.....compare that to one season with Howard and having almost the same team next 2 seasons minus Howard. Thats a big risk IMO.

 

[the moops]

Second, I think Howard's, lets call it a lack of desire,

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

Don't really consider myself an expert but I find myself agreeing with this. If the Magic get to midseason and think they've got any shot at all at a title the value of that shot- even if it's a 5% chance- is greater than the value of Brook Lopez and some mid-round picks. If you're gonna rebuild in the NBA you have to start from the bottom because it's a star-driven league. Otherwise you're the Hawks or the Sixers or the Rockets- never good enough to compete, and never bad enough to snag an elite prospect.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Second, I think Howard's, lets call it a lack of desire,

He thinks Bynum and Odom are too much for Howard and this is the part that has you

 

[TobiasFunke]

Kills me too.

Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound.

If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays.

Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

If Orlando did this deal by 2012 they would have a likely top 5 pick (their own), top 10 pick (GS), top 25 pick (Nets), very solid young Center and close to $40M in cap room to sign 2 very good players.....compare that to one season with Howard and having almost the same team next 2 seasons minus Howard. Thats a big risk IMO.

They have all of those things except the Top 25 pick and the solid young center if they don't do the deal, too. Plus they increase their likelihood of having that Top 5 pick the next year and the year after (because they suck even more without Lopez) and their fans get to enjoy one last ride with Howard.

 

[Abraham]

From grantland's list of things they are looking forward to for the season: "watching Evan turner and Andre Iguodola stand in the same spot on the floor for 66 games".

 

[Premier]

Kills me too.

Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound.

If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays.

Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

If Orlando did this deal by 2012 they would have a likely top 5 pick (their own), top 10 pick (GS), top 25 pick (Nets), very solid young Center and close to $40M in cap room to sign 2 very good players.....compare that to one season with Howard and having almost the same team next 2 seasons minus Howard. Thats a big risk IMO.

They have all of those things except the Top 25 pick and the solid young center if they don't do the deal, too. Plus they increase their likelihood of having that Top 5 pick the next year and the year after (because they suck even more without Lopez) and their fans get to enjoy one last ride with Howard.

Exactly. And DH hasn't left yet either. I know everybody is on tilt because of Lebron and Melo, but I think the outcome of this season will weigh heavily with Dwight.

 

[the moops]

Second, I think Howard's, lets call it a lack of desire,

He thinks Bynum and Odom are too much for Howard and this is the part that has you

 

[Kiddnets]

Kills me too.

Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound.

If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays.

Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

Not smart to think you must get equal value for an expiring contact. Lopez and something else of value is far better then holding Howard for one year and nothing after that setting the franchise back to zero assets really

No, it's really not. In fact, it's way worse. You are getting value out of Howard. You're getting his 2011 season. It's dumbfounding to me that people don't understand this.

1 season vs a big chance to rebuild the right way....tough call...I dont see the Magic close to winning it all. even if you dont like this particular deal if the right one came around to help your club I think you take it over 1 last year of Dwight. having him leave for a Lebron like trade leaving the team with overpriced Hedo/arenas would be a disaster

Not really. If DH leaves obviously Arenas gets amnesty. Hedo only ha 2 years left after that. You guys talk about rebuilding as if this is the NFL. The Magic aren't going to just "rebuild" into a contender right away. They have to get lucky in the lottery or free agency and pray for the best. Some crappy mid-first draft picks and Brook Lopez isn't getting you there.

If Orlando did this deal by 2012 they would have a likely top 5 pick (their own), top 10 pick (GS), top 25 pick (Nets), very solid young Center and close to $40M in cap room to sign 2 very good players.....compare that to one season with Howard and having almost the same team next 2 seasons minus Howard. Thats a big risk IMO.

They have all of those things except the Top 25 pick and the solid young center if they don't do the deal, too. Plus they increase their likelihood of having that Top 5 pick the next year and the year after (because they suck even more without Lopez) and their fans get to enjoy one last ride with Howard.

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Kills me too. Let's trade a top-3 guy in the league for a center who doesn't play defense or rebound. If Dwight walks, there is literally no difference in the 2012 Magic with or without Brook Lopez. And they would be complete idiots (although it is Otis Smith) not to take one more crack at it this year. They were just in the East finals the year before last.

I agree that Lopez for Howard straight up is crazy talk, but the idea that Lopez isn't a useful asset is overstating it as well.

Sure he's a useful guy, but he doesn't move the needle for the Magic at all. The only way you trade a guy like Howard is for a guy like Blake Griffin. And that's not going to happen, so you hold him, try to win a title and hope he stays. Now if the team starts 10-30, then your thinking changes; otherwise, go for it this year.

The Nets offer is better than you think - its Lopez (who is nowhere near Howard but a very solid young Center), 2 #1 picks in a great draft (including GS pick which should be good) and taking on Hedo's awful deal which I dont think any other team could do. This is a one time offer as once FA starts Nets cant take on Hedo's salary then Magic use the amnesty on Arenas....if you know Howard is going to leave - the Magic clears a ton of cap space to rebuild, a solid young NBA center which dont grow on trees and 2 #1 picks....I dont think thats a bad deal at all. I still dont think they take it but youthink they will do better than that at the deadline?

I think the dark horse for Howard is the Clippers. They got the pieces and everything I have heard is Howard wants to be in LA.

They may have some pieces, but that's not the L.A. that Howard wants to be in.

I don't think/nor do I want Howard in LA.Two reasons, it's probably going to cost Bynum and Odom, I think that's too much. Second, I think Howard's, lets call it a lack of desire, will wear thin with Kobe and you could see some fireworks there. I know they are pretty close friends, constantly complimenting each other in the media, but even though Howard is a phenomenal talent, I just don't think winning titles is the thing motivating him in wanting to play in LA.Now if we could get him for Bynum and some other smaller parts, you would have to do it, but I don't think that's happening.Very interested to see the direction of this team. The goal shouldn't be to look for your next franchise player and the future, it should be to maximize Kobe's prime years left, and try and get another title.

I almost missed you. Almost.

 

[Sammy3469]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

 

[No. 16]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Dubs picked 11th after having a great start spoiled by a zombie bit from Wilson Chandler and getting nothing from Biedrins. I think there's a better chance the Warriors are not in the lottery this year (especially if they can snag Nene after ditching Biedrins).

 

[Gr00vus]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.

And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

I'm starting to come back to this a little the more I think about it and read this thread.Ultimately, though, there are two huge variables that determine whether it's a good deal or not: (1) what chance the Magic have of winning the 2012 title, and (2) what chance they have of keeping Howard beyond that. Tough to make any kind of call without having a good feel both for those things, and really, none of us has much of a feel for either of them at the moment.

 

[Premier]

Lmao at good thing they have Otis Smith.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

 

[Premier]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

I'm starting to come back to this a little the more I think about it and read this thread.Ultimately, though, there are two huge variables that determine whether it's a good deal or not: (1) what chance the Magic have of winning the 2012 title, and (2) what chance they have of keeping Howard beyond that. Tough to make any kind of call without having a good feel both for those things, and really, none of us has much of a feel for either of them at the moment.

That's why the Magic will play out at least 30 games before making any decisions. The odds of Dwight getting traded before the year are about the same as me replacing him.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

I'm doubtful I would consider the most of the guys they could collect off that scrap heap major contributors. Baron Davis? No thankee. I'd rather have Sessions.

 

[Gr00vus]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

They can already get that where they are now - in fact probably more than they would be able to get from Orlando. Yet they don't seem to want to. Seems like they want to be part of some super team deal.

 

[biggamer3]

Paul will be dealt for Russell westbrook. This deal makes so much sense my head hurts

 

[TobiasFunke]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

They can already get that where they are now - in fact probably more than they would be able to get from Orlando. Yet they don't seem to want to. Seems like they want to be part of some super team deal.

They can get it anywhere, but they can't keep as much of it anywhere else as they can in Florida.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

I'm starting to come back to this a little the more I think about it and read this thread.Ultimately, though, there are two huge variables that determine whether it's a good deal or not: (1) what chance the Magic have of winning the 2012 title, and (2) what chance they have of keeping Howard beyond that. Tough to make any kind of call without having a good feel both for those things, and really, none of us has much of a feel for either of them at the moment.

That's why the Magic will play out at least 30 games before making any decisions. The odds of Dwight getting traded before the year are about the same as me replacing him.

I think you're right, but I wonder if the offers will be as good at that time.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

They can already get that where they are now - in fact probably more than they would be able to get from Orlando. Yet they don't seem to want to. Seems like they want to be part of some super team deal.

True, but we're really going to see how much they want that super team shortly. Hollinger broke down the Paul-to-the-Knicks scenario recently, and his analysis was that Paul would have to sacrifice 10s of millions to play in NY.

 

[Bobcat10]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

I'm doubtful I would consider the most of the guys they could collect off that scrap heap major contributors. Baron Davis? No thankee. I'd rather have Sessions.

Sessions isn't getting amnesty'd.

 

[Gr00vus]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

They can already get that where they are now - in fact probably more than they would be able to get from Orlando. Yet they don't seem to want to. Seems like they want to be part of some super team deal.

They can get it anywhere, but they can't keep as much of it anywhere else as they can in Florida.

True, but my main point is that max money doesn't seem to be their motivation.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

I'm doubtful I would consider the most of the guys they could collect off that scrap heap major contributors. Baron Davis? No thankee. I'd rather have Sessions.

Sessions isn't getting amnesty'd.

I know, it was just a reference point for how I feel about Davis as a potential "contributor."

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

I'm doubtful I would consider the most of the guys they could collect off that scrap heap major contributors. Baron Davis? No thankee. I'd rather have Sessions.

I haven't gone in-depth with the different teams cap levels and who will be getting amnestied but I'm sure there'll be a few out there who could contribute a solid 20-25 minutes. The only question is whether they are all bid on before the Lakers can offer them the minimum.

 

[Gr00vus]

I understand that if they keep Howard they have to wait a year to get a top 5 pick and the Nets pick would be a late 1st but they do get a likely top 10 GS pick, solid young Center and immediately clear a boatload of cap room - I dont think they will do it either but I think its a better offer than whats being made out....I like the Nets being aggressive....not sure what plan B is as I am not a fan of maxing Nene or big money to Chandler....who are the best FAs out there?

With or without Howard, the Magic will be able to rebuild after this year. Without Howard they'll be around 40 million, and could easily be in the market for Paul or D Williams. Plus, If they want late round 1st round picks they'll be able to buy them anyway. You talk like this is their best and only chance to rebuild, but that simply isn't the case. Would they be a little better off with Lopez and the GS pick sure (and I personally don't think GS will be all that bad this year), but not as much as you're portraying here.

Why would Paul or Williams want to go to Orlando if Howard isn't there?

$$$$

They can already get that where they are now - in fact probably more than they would be able to get from Orlando. Yet they don't seem to want to. Seems like they want to be part of some super team deal.

True, but we're really going to see how much they want that super team shortly. Hollinger broke down the Paul-to-the-Knicks scenario recently, and his analysis was that Paul would have to sacrifice 10s of millions to play in NY.

Yeah I think the NY thing is unlikely. But what about a Clipper scenario?x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

 

[Juxtatarot]

I think you guys are underestimating the NJ offer. A solid young C, multiple 1st rounders in a strong draft, and ridding themselves of Hedo's deal is very attractive. I understand where Cappy is coming from as well - the Magic aren't far away and the chance at a title is tough to pass up. It's a VERY difficult decision. Good thing they have Otis Smith.And this Laker fan would be ecstatic if a Bynum + Odom for Howard deal came to fruition.

There's no realistic Laker-Magic deal that makes sense for the Magic. Maybe if another team got involved, but the Lakers just don't have much in the way of excess assets to be handing out right now. I don't see the Laker roster getting any additional major contributors at this point.

I'm sure there will be a couple amnesty players who'd be happy to ride Gasol's coattails to a championship.

I'm doubtful I would consider the most of the guys they could collect off that scrap heap major contributors. Baron Davis? No thankee. I'd rather have Sessions.

I haven't gone in-depth with the different teams cap levels and who will be getting amnestied but I'm sure there'll be a few out there who could contribute a solid 20-25 minutes. The only question is whether they are all bid on before the Lakers can offer them the minimum.

Teams that are allowed to bid on any decent amnestied player will since they can be had so cheaply. A team over the cap would be forced to acquire such a player in a trade.

 

[Gr00vus]

I haven't gone in-depth with the different teams cap levels and who will be getting amnestied but I'm sure there'll be a few out there who could contribute a solid 20-25 minutes. The only question is whether they are all bid on before the Lakers can offer them the minimum.

I'm assuming the actually useful guys who get amnestied will be long gone by the time the Lakers can get to the table. Unless one of those guys really does want to ride the coattails. I'm not counting on it.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Potential Amnesty guys:

ATL: Williams (Johnson should be but I doubt it'll happen)

BOS: No one.

CHA: Maggette

CHI: Boozer?

CLE: Davis

DAL: Haywood

DEN: Harrington

DET: Gordon/Charlie V/Rip

GS: No one.

HOU: No one.

IND: Maybe Jones?

LAC: Mo?

LAL: Artest/Blake

MEM: Conley? Gay?

MIA: Miller

MIL: Gooden

MIN: Darko

NJ: Outlaw

NO: Ariza?

NY: No one.

OKC: Perkins?

ORL: Arenas

PHI: Brand?

PHO: Childress

POR: Roy

SAC: Salmons

SA: Jefferson

TOR: Klieza

UTA: Bell?

WAS: Lewis

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm assuming the actually useful guys who get amnestied will be long gone by the time the Lakers can get to the table. Unless one of those guys really does want to ride the coattails. I'm not counting on it.

Depends on how many teams are over the cap, I think. If every team uses its amnesty but that still leaves 15 over the cap, then the Lakers would have 15 guys to offer the minimum to and I'm sure they'd pretty much have their choice... hypothetically of course.

 

[Gr00vus]

Potential Amnesty guys:ATL: Williams (Johnson should be but I doubt it'll happen)BOS: No one.CHA: MaggetteCHI: Boozer?CLE: DavisDAL: HaywoodDEN: HarringtonDET: Gordon/Charlie V/RipGS: No one.HOU: No one.IND: Maybe Jones?LAC: Mo?LAL: Artest/BlakeMEM: Conley? Gay? MIA: MillerMIL: GoodenMIN: DarkoNJ: OutlawNO: Ariza?NY: No one.OKC: Perkins?ORL: ArenasPHI: Brand?PHO: ChildressPOR: RoySAC: SalmonsSA: JeffersonTOR: KliezaUTA: Bell?WAS: Lewis

 

[Juxtatarot]

Potential Amnesty guys:

ATL: Williams (Johnson should be but I doubt it'll happen)

BOS: No one.

CHA: Maggette

CHI: Boozer?

CLE: Davis

DAL: Haywood

DEN: Harrington

DET: Gordon/Charlie V/Rip

GS: No one.

HOU: No one.

IND: Maybe Jones?

LAC: Mo?

LAL: Artest/Blake

MEM: Conley? Gay?

MIA: Miller

MIL: Gooden

MIN: Darko

NJ: Outlaw

NO: Ariza?

NY: No one.

OKC: Perkins?

ORL: Arenas

PHI: Brand?

PHO: Childress

POR: Roy

SAC: Salmons

SA: Jefferson

TOR: Klieza

UTA: Bell?

WAS: Lewis

I'd set the over/under on the number of amnestied players this year at 7.5.

 

[the moops]

The new CBA only allows for one year extensions with sign and trades. So, Paul saying that he won't sign the extension before he is traded is of no significance.However, whatever team he is traded to (if he is traded) will be able to give him much, much more money than if he was to sign as a free agent in 2012. I the following from another site (changed a bit to make it more applicable to every team).

1. Whatever team that trades for him will be the only team able to offer Paul a 5 year max deal at $100M because of Bird rights;2. Any other team in the NBA would only be able to offer him a 4 year, $74M deal; 3. Paul keeps clamoring about joining the Knicks and forming the second "Big Three," but even assuming that the Knicks have just Amare and Carmelo on the roster, they'd only have $13.5M of cap space in 2012-13 which results in a 4 year, $58M deal under the new rules.I simply can't imagine Paul declining $26 million dollars to sign with another team, let alone $42 million dollars to sign with the Knicks.

 

[Instinctive]

Paul will be dealt for Russell westbrook. This deal makes so much sense my head hurts

Westbrook --> BostonRondo --> New OrleansPaul --> Oklahoma CityObviously other pieces need to be involved, but don't all three teams get something they like in that? Assuming Paul liked playing in OKC the post-Katrina year.

 

[Instinctive]

Mavs: I doubt we amnesty anyone this year, pending what Chandler wants. Haywood can be kept around for a year, at least.

On the Chris Paul debate, if you're not going to get the money you need in New York, do you consider Dallas? At the end of this year, the following contracts go away:

Jason Terry - 11.5 million

Jason Kidd - 8.5 million

Either Haywood or Marion could be amnestied next year, which I think could leave an attractive spot for Chris Paul - Dirk high post, Chandler low...it seems like a team I'd pick if I was Chris Paul over the other potential FA destinations, assuming NY doesn't work out.

 

[Gr00vus]

Mavs: I doubt we amnesty anyone this year, pending what Chandler wants. Haywood can be kept around for a year, at least.On the Chris Paul debate, if you're not going to get the money you need in New York, do you consider Dallas? At the end of this year, the following contracts go away:Jason Terry - 11.5 millionJason Kidd - 8.5 millionEither Haywood or Marion could be amnestied next year, which I think could leave an attractive spot for Chris Paul - Dirk high post, Chandler low...it seems like a team I'd pick if I was Chris Paul over the other potential FA destinations, assuming NY doesn't work out.

How far under the cap would the Mavs be in your scenario?