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Granted I don't know much about Korver pre-Chicago, but I don't think another player on the Bulls tried harder more consistently on the defensive end. He plays defense. He just doesn't have one athletic defensive attribute.See: Kapono, Korver
Hasn't Williams given every indication he's not resigning next year? Does NJ look to trade him?
Nene would certainly be the PF in that lineup. Nene was drafted as a PF and has the mobility of an athletic PF, Lopez is kinda slow for a center, at power forward he would get absolutely destroyed.
Not at all - he didnt sign the in season extension because on CBA he would lose a few years and a ton of dough - so hes definitely opting out but he hasnt ruled out coming back to the Nets....New arena, new location, billionaire owner are all pluses but the key is the roster...Nets need to show him he can win a title in Brooklyn.
I'd expect that jimmer will increase his defensive effort now that he is being asked to play a different role in the nba. He's similar to korver (or more optimistically, stephon curry) in that he's not a strong athlete.Granted I don't know much about Korver pre-Chicago, but I don't think another player on the Bulls tried harder more consistently on the defensive end. He plays defense. He just doesn't have one athletic defensive attribute.
Offensively you may be right, but unfortunately for the Knicks, you gotta play defense sometimes. Miami was the 5th most efficient defense last year and the 3rd most efficient offense. With a lineup of Paul, Amare, Melo and 10 scrubs I could see the offense being as efficient as the Heat, but the defense would still be in the bottom third because of arguably the worst defensive big man in the league and a very sub par wing defender.This is all a moot point because they wont get Paul.
With a decent face up game Lopez could play PF offensively, but there is absolutely zero way he could hang with a guy like Odom or Josh Smith defensively.
Throw in a SG like Jason Richardson and that's a real solid starting 5.
He'd be really fun as a substitute for Kenyon Martin in Denver, especially with Andre Miller back and still throwing the best 'oop in basketball.
This. And there is diminishing returns in adding another offensive force. Paul is an excellent defender as a PG, but PG defense probably isn't half as important as front line players. NYK's problem is that they have two overrated "stars." They'd be better off dealing Amare and Melo for Paul and Howard than keeping both and signing Paul.
I think Melo and Amare have been bashed so much the past couple of years that they've actually become underrated. Yeah, they're flawed, but who other than LBJ, Wade, CP3, Howard, Kobe, and Durant aren't flawed? Melo and Amare are still top 10-15 talents, and I'd argue that Melo would become an "elite" guy if Paul came to NY. CP3/Melo/Amare is the best non-Miami 3some in the game. I don't think you can bash the Knicks for trying to make that happen.
It isn't as if those two are just poor at one of many things, they are poor at about half of the things necessary. Amare, easily the inferior of the two, is an awful defender and a terrible rebounder and plays the position where defense and rebounding are the most important. Melo is a good rebounder for a SF, but a really poor defender and his TS% has hovered around league average for his career.
If so, it is mostly because of Paul. I think Bryant-Gasol-Bynum are certainly better, and the best 3 guys in OKC, SAS, BOS, and CHI are in the conversation.
Wow. Both Melo and Amare have been in the top 16 in Hollinger's PER rankings the past two seasons, Paul in the top 7 both seasons.
That doesn't mean very much.
Paul gives the Knicks balance in having talent spread across players of different heights. But that doesn't mean much. Paul and Amare would be great together, but I don't think Anthony works that well with him.The ideal guy to give the Knicks balance (but it would also never happen) is Dwight Howard.
San Antonio? With Duncan, GInobili and Parker? No chance.Chicago with Boozer, Rose and Noah is nowhere close.I suppose Boston with their 4 instead of 3 may be close, but probably not too close. All 3 of the hypothetical Knick trio are better than any of the Boston quartet.OKC have Durant, and I suppose Westbrook, but Perkins and/or Harden are nowhere near the player of Paul/Melo/Amare.Lakers are the closest with Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum. But even then, I think until Bynum gets a bit more polished, they wouldnt be in the same class.
By polished do you mean healthy? The issue isn't his play when he's on the court and healthy, its the fact that rarely is he on the court and even less likely that he is fully healthy and on the court. Plus hes about as dirty as they come...
PER is mostly an offensive stat that, imo, overrates scoring. Melo and Amare must be top 20 to overcome defensive inefficiencies. I think Paul is a top 3 PG of all time, fwiw.'tommyGunZ said:'Voice Of Reason said:
For this season, not going forward.'the moops said:
Deng > Boozer.
Pierce and Garnett are much better than Melo and Amare.
Harden played very well towards the end of last year.
I believe he can only sign a 3 year extension if he doesnt opt out but he can sign a 5 yr extension if he does opt out....regardless Nets still can pay the most but by opting out he gets an extra 3 yrs and a ton more $....it was a no brainer even if he still wants to stay with NJ'RedRaiders said:
Bird and McHale are much better than Pierce and Garnett.(You were playing the "Historical Comparison Game", right?)
I think the Heat would think about the Howard-Lebron trade but ultimately decline it, it may make them a better team but you can't trade away the best player in the NBA in the middle of his prime. I think if Orlando would take Wade instead of Lebron, the Heat would take it. Wade is turning 30 in a month and has a long history of injuries and has yet to develop a solid jumper, I think he is going to be on the slow decline for the next 2-3 years before we see a steep decline. In 4 years I think we'll see a Dwyane Wade who was a shell of his former self, but in 4 years Lebron will be 30/31 and still in his prime. People often forget the huge age difference between Lebron/Melo/Bosh and Wade.
This season, Amare > Duncan, Melo >Ginobili, Paul > Parker.
Perhaps, but neither one of them is as good as the Knick trio. Same goes for Noah.
No and no
He did. He still isn't a top 30 player in the league though.
I agree. Huge CP3 fan here.
Paul is the best defensive PG in the league and one of the best half dozen rebounders, Melo is one of the top half dozen rebounders at his position and when you compare Amare to PFs (where his defense is also exploited less often) hes in the same class of rebounders as Dirk, Aldridge, Millsap, and West and you rarely hear about their lack of rebounding.Fantasy NYK>SASThe Spurs players are all good players, but Melo and Paul combined will probably play as many minutes as the SAS three combined and all three of the Spurs are on the decline (especially Duncan who should no longer be a All-Star/All-Pro candidate).Fantasy NYK>CHII think everybody that was around last year knows my feelings on Rose, but I think its safe to say that Paul is the much better rounded PG than Rose, Melo is much better than Deng and Amare is better than Boozer. I don't think this one is even close.Fantasy NYK>BosI'm not even sure which three you would pick here. Paul>>>>>Rondo, Rondo is Paul's equal in passing, rebounding and defending, but Paul's monstrous advantage scoring the ball (Rondo can't and Paul can do it as well and efficiently as about any player in the league) gives him the big advantage. Melo>>Pierce, this would depend on what you wanted in a SF, I suppose, Melo is a great scorer and great rebounder who can carry a team, Pierce has become a great complimentary player with an all around game that disappears at times. Garnett>Amare, I think that if Garnett's knees can hold up as they did last year hes the better player because of his all around game and leadership, but with a PG like Paul, I think Amare being the best Pick and Roll dive man in possibly the history of the NBA would be exploited and he would be almost impossible to stop offensively.Fantasy NYK>OKCI'm of the opinion that Durant is slightly overrated while Westbrook is slightly underrated, so I think Paul is better than either but Melo/Amare is worse than either, so I think the top two is about even. But Melo/Amare are so much better than whoever the third (Ibaka IMO) Thunder player is that the comparison isn't even close.Fantasy NYK<MiaI consider Lebron and Wade the first and third best players in the league (with Howard in between) and Paul fourth and I consider Bosh a better player than Amare (with Melo falling somewhere between Paul and Bosh) so this one is probably the biggest gap of all these comparisons.
I pretty much agree except for the bolded. Having faith in Amare's knees in the long run is going to be a losing proposition. I think his K is going to end up an albatross around that team. How much longer is he signed for?However if he can hold up for a year or so, they would have a chance to be very good. I completely understand what a lot of people are saying about defense and rebounding. And I think they have a point. This hypothetical Knicks team is way better as a fantasy team than a basketball team. If the three of them defend/rebound like they have in the past, they're ultimately going to lose in the playoffs. The Heat and Bulls are probably not going to lose to a one dimensional team in a 7 game series. Especially if we're saying it's 12/13 giving Rose and Noah more experience.
The Knicks will save their contract amnesty for a situation where Amare's knees crap out, so his bloated horrible contract isn't nearly the issue it should have/would have been.
I gotta disagree with this. If you can't stop a PG from penetrating, your whole defense breaks down. It is the initial point of attack and if a PG is beaten of the dribble everyone else begins rotating and is generally out of position for the rest of the play.Signed,A guy who has watched Calderon be abused for the last 6 years.'Voice Of Reason said:
with Bargani protecting the rim, Calderon probably looks even worse than he actually is.Every player is responsible for his own guy, but interior guys carry a much heavier burden in terms of help defense and defensive rebounding (if you could that as part of defense.) Shots at the rim are the best shots in basketball, and front line guys are typically the most responsible for protecting that area as help defenders. With the increased use of pick and roll based offenses in the league, the role of 4's and 5's defensively is increasing, imo.
But those guys almost always play PF vs Amare is almost always a C. Those guys are defending players further from the basket and playing with guys who are good rebounders. If those teams went small and put them at center, if their numbers didn't go up a lot it would be a big issue.
This is true. I was thinking on a per-minute basis.
Noah >>> Amare and Deng is pretty close to Melo, imo. If Deng continues to improve his 3 pt shooting, which I think is reasonable to assume because Thibs puts such a premium on, I might rank him > Melo.
Paul >>>>> Rondo. Rondo is not as good of a passer as CP3. CP3's amazingly low turnover rate given relatively similar amount of assists is amazing and goes overlooked too often. I think Pierce is better than Melo and Garnett is a lot better than Amare. Pierce played incredibly well last season.
Very much agree with this.
Deng is a role player and will never be anything more because he can't create a shot. Hes a great guy to be the third best player on a championship team because he knows his role and is a solid spot up shooter and a very good defender. But for somebody that mentioned Melo's average efficiency, its odd that you have a big boner for Deng who is less efficient.As for Noah, I think Amare is the better player, but in a system like Chicago's I could see Noah being the better fit. I know you are trying to preach defense over offense, but the most valuable ability in the NBA is to score the ball and Amare is probably the best scoring (or at least in the top 5) big man in the league. His lack of rebounding and defense keep him from being a top 15 player in the NBA, but hes still a more valuable player than Noah (who is the exact opposite of Amare, can't score at all but rebounds and defends at an elite rate).
Deng has a below average turnover rate because he doesn't create offense, he either sets up for open shots or uses a pull up jumper when he does have the ball, its pretty hard to turn the ball over much (plus Melo has the same TO rate but hes creating significantly more offense, which is much more impressive). If Deng was much of an offensive player he would have absolutely blown up last year with Rose getting all the attention he was getting from the opposing team. You are VASTLY underrating the ability of Melo's scoring, he averages 10 points more per 36 minutes. That is a huge number. Deng is an average offensive player and a good (not great) defensive player. Melo is a great offensive player and a poor defensive player.Plus, I think that Deng's defense has become overrated because of the elite, near historically good, defensive big men that the Bulls had backing him up. Asik, Noah and Gibson are everything you could ask for as help defenders. And on top of that, SF is by far the least important position to be a good defender at, the list of solid offensive SFs in the league that you need to cover is about a half dozen long (Lebron, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Granger, Gay), the other decent SFs (Deng, Wallace, Prince, etc) don't need much of a defensive stalwart covering them because they lack a well rounded offensive game. The only truly difference making defensive wing in the NBA is Lebron, other than him I would take 15 different defense bigs (based solely on their defense) than any wing. The impact of a great scorer is so much more important on a nightly basis than being a good defender.
outstanding post
I love Nene, but that would be a massive mistake. I'll be sad to see him go, but he's in no way worth that money. Good to see the lockout solved all those overspending issues.
That's great news for them as long as he didn't bulk up to the point in which his shot is altered.
Melo moved without the ball fairly well with Andre Miller in town, once they traded for Iverson then started running way more isolations. In a different situation I think Melo would be excellent running off screens and making hard cuts toward the hoop (which he used to do a lot more, Billups/Iverson/Carter/Watson/Boykins weren't especially good passers. With a PG of Paul's talent Melo would be much more efficient and wouldn't need as many isolations, IMO. As for Amare, I think he would be more effective as a dive man on the pick and roll than he was in PHX because Paul is more of a threat to take it too the hoop and has has similar shooting ability to Nash.I don't think the issue of meshing together would be offensive, the problem would be Amare being a horrible defender at center (where they'll continue to play him) and being a piss poor rebounder. Melo's attitude towards defense as one of the "leaders" of the team is also fairly toxic and would rub off on the rest of the team. If they had a Garnett type defensive leader I think Melo and Amare could make a Allen or Pierce type turn around defensively because they are both big and strong enough and have more than enough atheticism to become plus defenders. Having a coach that's allergic to defense is not going to help the team out either.
Tidbit from HoopsHype quotes M. Barnes saying he's talked to Howard and B. Davis and they both want to come to LA. Davis if he's amnestied.
