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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
- Start date
I love your effort.
No. 16
Footballguy
The defense did look much improved, but without a true PG not sure what you expect from a team with Carmelo and Amare as the big dogs? Those are two players with very low assist rates for their careers. BD will certainly help because when he's not chucking early in the shot clock 3 pointers, he actually is a fine distributor. He also has the personality/credibility to control Amare and Melo. Like you said it's still early, but loved getting that win over the Knicks without Curry. Warriors have been playing very good defense the past 3 games. I need to see them do it on the road and longer than 3 games before I believe, but so far they have held the Clippers, Knicks, and Bulls to 42.5% from the field, 29.3% from 3 point line, and are actually an above average rebounding team. Their defensive rating 100.2 is good for 11th in the league. Who knew adding defensive players (Brown, Rush, McGuire) and giving defensive players minutes who actually work? F'N genius. I know Indiana has a bunch of wingmen, but can anyone tell me why Brandon Rush was shipped out for Amundson? The dude plays D, grabs rebounds, and plays within himself on offense. Is his recent play a result of the contract year?LolIts still early and that was a horrible fourth quarter for Knicks but there was some solid defense played by Knicks but the offense was a complete snooze.On the gripes I have with team after two days: Tony Douglas has never passed when he should, he always shoots on situations where guys are open near rim. Amar'e gotta stop with long jumpers and start playing under the basket, he did not even attempt to post up one time all game vs David lee, wtf was up with that?And finally Tyson Chandler is completely useless offensively without a pg like kidd to lob it up to him. Knicks need Baron Davis healthy in the worst way'No. 16 said:biggamer3!
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Celtics organization, to their fans: "Listen, I know you guys really like Rondo. But this move allows us to replace him with another PG who is, at best, merely a moderate downgrade from Rondo, plus we add a non-lottery pick in the draft! You still get to enjoy the inevitable steep decline of the aging stars you've grown to love, except now the guy passing them the ball isn't nearly as good a passer as Rondo!"I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Lowry / Martin
Westbrook / Harden
DEAL
Westbrook / Harden
DEAL
Kev4029
Footballguy
Just last season you guys (Rockets fans in this thread) were beating the drum that Lowry was an okay backup and Brooks was a top 10 PG. What happened to that?I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Houston should probably keep him then, no?I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Then why are you in such a hurry to trade him away?I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Unfair unless they include Durant and Scola too.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Done.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
So you are the guy in my fantasy league that writes an essay with each and every trade offer discussing why I should make the deal.(shakes hand)I continue to be amazed at how underrated Lowry is. He's one of the two to best defenders at pg in the league and a great field general.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Suns sign Michael Redd.
Not that it matters. They'll be lucky to win 10 games.
Not that it matters. They'll be lucky to win 10 games.
Abraham
Footballguy
I have said repeatedly that the rockets can't win with the team they have now. They have three guys that should be second or third options on good teams and no single guy that is "go to". I like Lowry and hVe come to appreciate his all around ability and defense compared to Aaron brooks simply driving and scoring. And I like Martin as a sg and scola as a pf. But they are overmatched due to the roles they are being asked to fill.
Martin would be an all star playing on the Wing with Derrick rose in Chicago.
Scola would be an all star working down low with derron Williams.
Lowry would be an all star setting the table for melo or durant.
All three guys would make great second or third bananas. But trying to have each of them be "the guy" depending on the situation or opponent is going to lead to being .500 again.
Martin would be an all star playing on the Wing with Derrick rose in Chicago.
Scola would be an all star working down low with derron Williams.
Lowry would be an all star setting the table for melo or durant.
All three guys would make great second or third bananas. But trying to have each of them be "the guy" depending on the situation or opponent is going to lead to being .500 again.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Their training staff does wonders, so its a good signing by both.Redd also isn't as old as people realize, hes only 32. If he could get back to 75% of what he was before the knees (who knows if that's even a possible outcome) he because a valuable 6th man that comes off the bench for 20-25 minutes and scores 12 points efficiently every night.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Who says no in Westbrook for Rondo? OKC?
Kev4029
Footballguy
And Westbrook is a first banana, so why would the Thunder trade their first banana for an average-ish PG in Lowry? The Thunder won't trade Westbrook this year, and even if they did, it would be for a very high price tag.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I agree. I like the signing. Maybe they can spin him to a contender (if possible) if things work out. Suns are a horrible basketball team. Best thing that could happen to them is to win the lottery. There's zero reason to go watch them right now. [2 best players are well past their prime in Nash (38)/Hill (39)]
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Kev4029
Footballguy
Rondo would be such a horrid fit in OKC, Presti would hang up before the Celtics even finished asking.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Gotta think that both Nash and Hill are gone by the trade deadline. Both are expiring, would bring back a couple picks and of course, save Sarver some money.
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
A great defensive PG who is more interested in passing (to Durant) than hogging the ball is a bad fit? Explain.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Put more offense through Harden.
Harden > Rondo
Harden > Rondo
Kev4029
Footballguy
Who turns this down?Nash, Hill (sucked up with the Odom exception), Gortat, Childress forBynum and FisherIt gives the Lakers a legit starting PG and SF (filling their two biggest needs) while giving them a good rebounder and defender for the shipped out Bynum.The Suns get to dump Childress' contract while taking something of a flyer on a potential All-NBA center.I think that would instantly turn the Lakers from middling playoff team to favorite in the west.
Abraham
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Not the Suns.I'd be shocked if the Lakers did this.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't see the Lakers doing that. I don't think it helps them enough this year and really hurts them in the long run. If they don't deal Bynum for Howard, it's highly unlikely they deal him. They're not going to take on Childress' contract just to get a Nash/Hill rental. I also don't see Fisher getting traded, he's got a player option for next year, nobody is going to want to take that.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Rondo has a hard time creating any offense for himself, he's a whiny ##### who is becoming known as a bit of a headache for Rivers (goes against the who tight knit team approach the Thunder are after) and a distributor doesn't help Durant any because much of his game is built around isolations. If they were to trade Westbrook they need a guy more similar to Chauncey Billups of yesteryear a shooter who can defend and get his own shot. A pass first PG wouldn't do all that much for them. Westbrook is a great fit, he just needs to make better decisions.And people seem to be misunderstanding what the fight was about with Durant and Westbrook last night, it wasn't because he was shooting too much or not getting the ball to Durant. Westbrook got pissed at Thabo for not taking an open jump shot and Durant was trying to talk Westbrook down.
Premier
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
Everybody has to be something.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I does hurt them in the long run, but it makes them SOOOOO much better in the short term. Gortat has proven himself to be a very adequate starting center and would offer most of what Bynum offers the Lakers when hes healthy. He defends the post, rebounds and can switch matchups with Gasol defensively, plus he scores efficiently without taking any shots away from the rest of the team. Plus he would play most of the games this season, which would limit the time the Lakers would have to play anybody but McRoberts and Gasol in the front court.Childress is horribly miscast in Phoenix, I still think he is a decent backup SG/SF he just needs some shooters around him because he can't shoot and thrives on taking the ball to the hoop.Nash/BlakeKobe/ChildressHill/MWP/BarnesGasol/McRobertsGortat/McRoberts
The Lakers would still not be able to guard young, fast PG's. If they're going to trade they're going to look for younger players, not older ones. At least not THAT old.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
No way the Lakers make that trade. It would improve their outlook for the very short term (slightly), but long term it would be a disaster. Hill is a nice complementary player but he shouldn't be playing starter's minutes. Childress is barely a legit NBA player at this point, let alone a rotation guy on a playoff contender. Gortat as a "potential All-NBA center" is almost as funny as Abraham's trade scenarios.
Or to put it another way: Bynum is the only one of those players who will still be an NBA starter 2 years from now. (Assuming he's not injured, of course.)
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Childress is garbage. Should go back to Italy (wherever he came from) Only thing he's miscast as is an NBA player.
With Nash/Hill, you're talking very short term (as in this year). Nash turns 38 in a month. Hill is 39. Neither should be playing more than 20-25 mins/game. Nash should be splitting with someone that can play defense. (Steve's been horribly exposed in the playoffs defensively for years). Even with that deal, Lakers are no better than 4th in the West (OKC/Dallas/SA). Not sure I'd put them ahead of Memphis either.
I don't think a package of Nash/Hill/Gortat lands you a franchise building block. (Which I think Bynum is)
With Nash/Hill, you're talking very short term (as in this year). Nash turns 38 in a month. Hill is 39. Neither should be playing more than 20-25 mins/game. Nash should be splitting with someone that can play defense. (Steve's been horribly exposed in the playoffs defensively for years). Even with that deal, Lakers are no better than 4th in the West (OKC/Dallas/SA). Not sure I'd put them ahead of Memphis either.
I don't think a package of Nash/Hill/Gortat lands you a franchise building block. (Which I think Bynum is)
Kev4029
Footballguy
I never said Gortat was a potential All-NBA center, hes a perfectly average starting NBA center. I said the Bynum was a possible All-NBA center.I guarantee Gortat and Nash (as long as he isn't retired) will be starting for an NBA team in 2013-2014.No way the Lakers make that trade. It would improve their outlook for the very short term (slightly), but long term it would be a disaster. Hill is a nice complementary player but he shouldn't be playing starter's minutes. Childress is barely a legit NBA player at this point, let alone a rotation guy on a playoff contender. Gortat as a "potential All-NBA center" is almost as funny as Abraham's trade scenarios.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I know Bynum isn't the epitome of good health - but it'd be some kind of Cocoon type miracle if that team was in any kind of shape to make a playoff run at the end of this condensed season. Bynum is basically the Lakers' only real hope for the future (whether they keep him or deal him for something long term good), you can't send him away for old folks and retreads.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Franchise building blocks play more than 50 games a year and average more than 11 and 9. The Lakers insistence on keeping Bynum will end up hurting them.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe, but trading him for retirement home residents would hurt them worse.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Nash/Hill/Gortat don't catapult them above OKC/Dallas in the West. Don't even think Hiil's an upgrade at SF there.
Kev4029
Footballguy
With his health the last four years, they are keeping him around in spite of their current goals. They should go all in on the next three seasons, punt Bynum for some assets to fill the rest of the team (not the trade I suggested, but any trade that can fill PG, SF and a Bynum replacement) with some good players and reevaluate after three seasons when the entire payroll is empty. They have to do something this year to fill the PG and SF positions or they won't be competitive in the playoffs.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Going out on a limb I see.
Why don't you promise to build levels in your apartment while you're at it!
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Subtracting Bynum just creates another hole that's even harder to fill. Your solution is no solution near term or long term. Your deal doesn't make them championship contenders (might even make them worse than they are now). I think the ship is kinda sailing on them being competitive in the playoffs this year. I think unless they find advantageous deals, they're going to play this out with what they've got and make adjustments next offseason.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Dallas is done, I think they got hot and rode a wave of luck into the finals last year. They have looked absolutely horrendous this year, losing your first two games isn't a big deal but losing them at home in the fashion they did is a big deal.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Said the guy who said this:Going out on a limb I see.
Its more likely that Nash will still be playing than Bynum will play a full schedule in two years.And I'm not even sure what the promise to build levels in your apartment thing is all about.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Bynum is the third best player on that team, healthy or not. It would be impossible to fill his void completely in that trade, but it would be fairly easy to give the Lakers 80% of what Bynum does for them with Gortat. In his 14 starts last year he went for 14 and 11 in 33 mpg (which would have been almost identical to Bynum in the same amount of minutes with similar percentages) and he moves well and can defend the hoop at an above average level. He certainly isn't the defender that Bynum is, but he could do a respectable job filling in. Plus, Gortat plays. That, in itself, is a huge upgrade from Bynum. People aren't giving Gortat any credit here.Hill would be a fairly substantial upgrade over MWP plus with Hill they could limit the minutes of Blake even more while rolling out a big lineup with no PG with Kobe and Hill playing defacto PG. Hill would also replicate what MWP does in the starting lineup by playing the role of defensive stopper, but Hill even in his old age is the MUCH better offensive player and still rebounds like a young guy.Nash would be light years ahead of Blake and Fisher. As mentioned, the Lakers still couldn't stop quick PGs, but it won't get any worse defensively for the Lakers while substituting a top 3 offensive PG for two of the worst.I honestly think that takes them from a one and done to a conference finals team.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
not that it matters to those proposing these trades, but Hill was a FA, so he can't be dealt for awhile into this season. Oh and there's no way the Lakers or OKC do any of the trades in this thread.
Westbrook is only getting dealt for someone on his own tier. Since we're throwing out trades that will never happen, how about Westbrook, Ibaka, and salary cap filler (may also need Harden) for Howard and Nelson.
Westbrook is only getting dealt for someone on his own tier. Since we're throwing out trades that will never happen, how about Westbrook, Ibaka, and salary cap filler (may also need Harden) for Howard and Nelson.
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