*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[Popinski]

Was Mike Miller hurt in the 2nd half or was Spoelstra just changing his substitution pattern again?

 

[Popinski]

The Celtics aren't going to win this series, but you've got to admire the fight they are putting up here.

they just need to steal one game in Miami which is possible, no way is this series close to a certainty at this point

Without Bosh, Miami has too many holes for the Cs to attack. Just like the West, this thing is up for grabs.

For those who missed it, Bosh face: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1157347/osh.gif

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think the Lebron criticism is really a result of the public seeking the next Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan.Lebron's game is different than their's and this last second shot criticism ridiculousness is out of control.It took Michael Jordan a while to develop a deadly jumper and win a ring. Looks like Lebron is on a similar path to me.

Jordan took (and made) a bigger shot at age 19 than LeBron has in his career through age 27.

 

[LHUCKS]

I think the Lebron criticism is really a result of the public seeking the next Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan.Lebron's game is different than their's and this last second shot criticism ridiculousness is out of control.It took Michael Jordan a while to develop a deadly jumper and win a ring. Looks like Lebron is on a similar path to me.

Jordan took (and made) a bigger shot at age 19 than LeBron has in his career through age 27.

Lebron in college would have been disgusting. Way ahead of both Kobe and MJ at that age.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Again, though, I have to question Spoelstra. Last play of the regulation, last play of the overtime- in both situations, there appeared to be no design to Miami's offense. Why call a timeout if the results going to be (1) give it to LeBron and let him do his thing and (2) give it to Wade and let him do his thing?? Spoelstra just always looks like a deer in the headllights.

The play design at the end of regulation was just brutal. * The first half of the play just ran down the clock with standing around and dribbling. Hardly any coaches have the nads to let a play develop naturally it that situation, but it's bad basketball. Those ten seconds designed to do nothing but run clock down reduced MIA's chances of scoring on that possession from about 45% down to about 30%. MIA did do an OK job disguising where the other four guys on the court would be when LeBron made his move, but Spolestra may as well have just texted Rivers during the timeout huddle, "LeBron will drive from the left point to the high post with five on the clock".* Speaking of which, designing the play to have LeBron not start his move to the basket until about 5.0 left on the clock was like sending a fighter plane into battle without arming it with missles. If the intent is for the man with the ball to just shoot it and hope he makes it, fine. But LeBron is at his best when we can either drive, pass to an open man, or draw a foul. His court vision is so great and the other four on the court are such good improvisers, the unit could have some up with something had BOS done something desperate like run three guys at LeBron when he started his drive. Give LeBron 3-4 extra seconds, starting his attack with 8-9 seconds left, and he has time to dribble back out of the wall built at the foul line and either throw an alley-oop to Wade or pass to spotted-up Battier for an unrushed three.* Positioning Haslem at the right elbow to fake a pick then cut to the left baseline was a good idea had Brandon Bass been guarding him. But with KG on Haslem? Turribul. Putting Haslem on the right elbow let KG take a help position at the left elbow where he could look right at LeBron without losing sight of his man and be ready to jump in front of the pick if Haslem cut across the lane high. When Haslem's cut was neither to set a pick nor directly to the basket, KG was able to alter LeBron's driving lane and reduce the passing window to Haslem. And since the play started so late, KG didn't have to worry about getting rebounding position since there wouldn't be enough time to grab an offensive rebound and shoot a putback. * Rotating Chalmers around top as LeBron started his drive to the middle gave BOS a free extra defender on LeBron with no negative consequences. The play design moved Dooling right into LeBron's strong side without also creating an open shot or driving lane for Chalmers. * Having Haslem on the floor at all if the intent was to play for one last shot. If the play was to run the clock out and take one shot right before the buzzer, why do you need a rebounder? Sub in James Jones or Mike Miller to put another shooter on the court and force KG to either play away from the basket or leave open a spotted-up shooter with his feet set.Brutal. Just brutal.

Agree with pretty much all of this, specifically the parts about not going until late in the clock (mind bogglingly stupid) and the part about going early enough to take advantage of LeBron's strengths. When LBJ goes with ~ 5 ticks left, anyone receiving the pass is in either a catch and shoot or 1 dribble and shoot. It doesn't allow for any additional passes or and improvising should the play break down.

 

[timschochet]

Again, though, I have to question Spoelstra. Last play of the regulation, last play of the overtime- in both situations, there appeared to be no design to Miami's offense. Why call a timeout if the results going to be (1) give it to LeBron and let him do his thing and (2) give it to Wade and let him do his thing?? Spoelstra just always looks like a deer in the headllights.

The play design at the end of regulation was just brutal. * The first half of the play just ran down the clock with standing around and dribbling. Hardly any coaches have the nads to let a play develop naturally it that situation, but it's bad basketball. Those ten seconds designed to do nothing but run clock down reduced MIA's chances of scoring on that possession from about 45% down to about 30%. MIA did do an OK job disguising where the other four guys on the court would be when LeBron made his move, but Spolestra may as well have just texted Rivers during the timeout huddle, "LeBron will drive from the left point to the high post with five on the clock".* Speaking of which, designing the play to have LeBron not start his move to the basket until about 5.0 left on the clock was like sending a fighter plane into battle without arming it with missles. If the intent is for the man with the ball to just shoot it and hope he makes it, fine. But LeBron is at his best when we can either drive, pass to an open man, or draw a foul. His court vision is so great and the other four on the court are such good improvisers, the unit could have some up with something had BOS done something desperate like run three guys at LeBron when he started his drive. Give LeBron 3-4 extra seconds, starting his attack with 8-9 seconds left, and he has time to dribble back out of the wall built at the foul line and either throw an alley-oop to Wade or pass to spotted-up Battier for an unrushed three.* Positioning Haslem at the right elbow to fake a pick then cut to the left baseline was a good idea had Brandon Bass been guarding him. But with KG on Haslem? Turribul. Putting Haslem on the right elbow let KG take a help position at the left elbow where he could look right at LeBron without losing sight of his man and be ready to jump in front of the pick if Haslem cut across the lane high. When Haslem's cut was neither to set a pick nor directly to the basket, KG was able to alter LeBron's driving lane and reduce the passing window to Haslem. And since the play started so late, KG didn't have to worry about getting rebounding position since there wouldn't be enough time to grab an offensive rebound and shoot a putback. * Rotating Chalmers around top as LeBron started his drive to the middle gave BOS a free extra defender on LeBron with no negative consequences. The play design moved Dooling right into LeBron's strong side without also creating an open shot or driving lane for Chalmers. * Having Haslem on the floor at all if the intent was to play for one last shot. If the play was to run the clock out and take one shot right before the buzzer, why do you need a rebounder? Sub in James Jones or Mike Miller to put another shooter on the court and force KG to either play away from the basket or leave open a spotted-up shooter with his feet set.Brutal. Just brutal.

Agree with all this, but what stuns me even more is that at the end of overtime it was MORE OF THE SAME. Yes I know that Wade ended up getting a decent look thanks to his athleticism, but is the best design you can come up just having Wade dribble the ball around as the clock runs out, while everyone else stands around, and finally Wade shoots a 3? Really? I know so littile about basketball x's and o's, but it just seems like a decent coach would come up with something better than that- in both situations.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think the Lebron criticism is really a result of the public seeking the next Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan.Lebron's game is different than their's and this last second shot criticism ridiculousness is out of control.It took Michael Jordan a while to develop a deadly jumper and win a ring. Looks like Lebron is on a similar path to me.

Jordan took (and made) a bigger shot at age 19 than LeBron has in his career through age 27.

Lebron in college would have been disgusting. Way ahead of both Kobe and MJ at that age.

No doubt. Despite my reluctance to anoint LeBron, he's always been the best player in history at his age, IMO.

 

[Britney Spears]

Great look for Wade there, can't fault him - you make some, you miss some.

Wade tried to pass to Chalmers first, then when he couldn't get rid of the ball, he settled for a fadeaway jumper instead of taking it to the basket. I guess he's afraid of the clutch.

 

[wilked]

Does anyone think Spo should have given Wade and/or James a little more rest?

Different circumstances (ages), but I like that Doc is willing to give his players rest even if the team is out of synch for a bit. It is a little bit of balance between short term and long term planning.

Also, Ferris, good analysis

 

[wilked]

Wade tried to pass to Chalmers first

Does that seem ridiculous to anyone else? Go to a huge game like that, to videotape the jumbotron on the biggest shot of the game?

 

[wilked]

Holy ####, Rondo in postgame

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/Nomar813/rondo-tuvok.png

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Jim Rome ‏@jimromeLebron misses that shot, twitter breaks. Wade misses it, "Ohhh, sooo close."============ So true.

Great quote.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Wade tried to pass to Chalmers first

Mario Chalmer's Shot, filmed at Allen Field House

 

[wilked]

Wade tried to pass to Chalmers first

haha, oops! Was checking Mon morn emails with youtube beside it... almslap:

 

[sho nuff]

Jim Rome ‏@jimromeLebron misses that shot, twitter breaks. Wade misses it, "Ohhh, sooo close."============ So true.

Misses the point. No one blasts LeBron for missing game winners - the criticism comes from his lack of desire to take them.ETA: I shouldn't say "no one" - clearly some will bash him for anything he does. I'm not one of those; my criticisms stem from his refusal to take game deciding shots when there is no one on the planet who can stop him.

Like in game 2 when he missed at the end of regulation and the twitter world was exploding with those bashing Lebron?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

"ok guys. I've had all year to design this and it's aWESOME. Pass the ball to dwayne. And then, everyone stand there. And then Dwayne - since you have the ball - do a little move thingy and throw it up from three. Ok? 'heat' on three!"

I don't get it. Wade got a great look.

I'm with you Gunz, if you can get Wade a clean 3 to win the game, you gotta take it

Nothing like having a 29% career 3pt shooter jacking one up off the dribble. I, for one, love when a player takes a low percentage shot at the end of a game.ETA: Also, I'm shocked that TGunz thinks that was a good shot. Shocked I tell you, shocked.

 

[LHUCKS]

Nothing like having a 29% career 3pt shooter jacking one up off the dribble. I, for one, love when a player takes a low percentage shot at the end of a game.

Again, I think Spoelstra needs to be better here.

 

[bostonfred]

Jim Rome ‏@jimromeLebron misses that shot, twitter breaks. Wade misses it, "Ohhh, sooo close."============ So true.

Misses the point. No one blasts LeBron for missing game winners - the criticism comes from his lack of desire to take them.ETA: I shouldn't say "no one" - clearly some will bash him for anything he does. I'm not one of those; my criticisms stem from his refusal to take game deciding shots when there is no one on the planet who can stop him.

Like in game 2 when he missed at the end of regulation and the twitter world was exploding with those bashing Lebron?

Im not one of the ones criticizng lebron, but I think its totally valid to say that a player with his talent should want to be the best, and if you want to be the best, you have to want the ball at the end of the game, and yes, you have to make those shots. remember that commercial/poster/tshirt/quote where jordan talked about how many game winning shots he'd taken and missed? Lebron needs to read that. Because if he wants to leave a legacy as one of the best ever to play the game, it wont be because he made a sick pass to haslem when he was triple teamed. and he wont cure his reputation as a shrinking violet by refusing to take shots, or by missing them. If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them. Otherwise, he will be compared to guys like shaq, who were great and may even have won multiple championships, but had a fatal flaw in their game. Personally, id like to see him push kobe down the list. I think he's more talented and has done more for his teams through the same point in their careers. But he needs to become a closer to do it.

 

[timschochet]

Jim Rome ‏@jimromeLebron misses that shot, twitter breaks. Wade misses it, "Ohhh, sooo close."============ So true.

Misses the point. No one blasts LeBron for missing game winners - the criticism comes from his lack of desire to take them.ETA: I shouldn't say "no one" - clearly some will bash him for anything he does. I'm not one of those; my criticisms stem from his refusal to take game deciding shots when there is no one on the planet who can stop him.

Like in game 2 when he missed at the end of regulation and the twitter world was exploding with those bashing Lebron?

Im not one of the ones criticizng lebron, but I think its totally valid to say that a player with his talent should want to be the best, and if you want to be the best, you have to want the ball at the end of the game, and yes, you have to make those shots. remember that commercial/poster/tshirt/quote where jordan talked about how many game winning shots he'd taken and missed? Lebron needs to read that. Because if he wants to leave a legacy as one of the best ever to play the game, it wont be because he made a sick pass to haslem when he was triple teamed. and he wont cure his reputation as a shrinking violet by refusing to take shots, or by missing them. If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them. Otherwise, he will be compared to guys like shaq, who were great and may even have won multiple championships, but had a fatal flaw in their game. Personally, id like to see him push kobe down the list. I think he's more talented and has done more for his teams through the same point in their careers. But he needs to become a closer to do it.

I'm not even a LeBron James fan in particular, but this is just too much. I don't recall ever seeing an elite athlete take this much undeserved crap- not even Peyton Manning in the years before he won a Superbowl, and HE took a whole lot of crap too. I'm not sure what James has to do. If he wins 3 rings with the Heat, and is the key to victory each time, will that shut up his critics? I strongly doubt it. I don't think at this point anything will.

 

[timschochet]

I'm not even a LeBron James fan in particular, but this is just too much. I don't recall ever seeing an elite athlete take this much undeserved crap- not even Peyton Manning in the years before he won a Superbowl, and HE took a whole lot of crap too. I'm not sure what James has to do. If he wins 3 rings with the Heat, and is the key to victory each time, will that shut up his critics? I strongly doubt it. I don't think at this point anything will.

If it helps... you're getting shticked by the post that triggered your reply.

In the big picture... there will be folks who will criticize LeBron for the rest of eternity because something he "predicted" at the post-Decision pep rally turned out not to be true. Ask those folks if they ever stood up during a pep rally at their school and yelled at the team captains and coaches for making statements that were insufficiently pragmatic.

Maybe it's shtick, but I've read it so often in so many places that not all of it can possibly be shtick. As far as his predictions go- I don't care about that. Basketball is a team sport. All LeBron can do is play as well as he can, and hope for the best. Since he's the best basketball player currently on the planet, there's not much more anyone can ask of him, IMO.

 

[Dought Man]

I remember when Jason Kidd came to the Nets. He gave us all a big speech about all the championships he was going to bring to NJ.

I never see that on Sportscenter...but I see the Miami pep rally clip 3-4 times per day.

My principal used to say we were going to win states in swimming. We never did... that guy was way overrated and never lived up to his promises.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them.

Link to where LeBron said he wants to be compared to Jordan. TIA.Also, awesome breakdown of the final sequence of regulation, Ferris.

 

[Sammy3469]

* Positioning Haslem at the right elbow to fake a pick then cut to the left baseline was a good idea had Brandon Bass been guarding him. But with KG on Haslem? Turribul. Putting Haslem on the right elbow let KG take a help position at the left elbow where he could look right at LeBron without losing sight of his man and be ready to jump in front of the pick if Haslem cut across the lane high. When Haslem's cut was neither to set a pick nor directly to the basket, KG was able to alter LeBron's driving lane and reduce the passing window to Haslem. And since the play started so late, KG didn't have to worry about getting rebounding position since there wouldn't be enough time to grab an offensive rebound and shoot a putback. * Rotating Chalmers around top as LeBron started his drive to the middle gave BOS a free extra defender on LeBron with no negative consequences. The play design moved Dooling right into LeBron's strong side without also creating an open shot or driving lane for Chalmers. * Having Haslem on the floor at all if the intent was to play for one last shot. If the play was to run the clock out and take one shot right before the buzzer, why do you need a rebounder? Sub in James Jones or Mike Miller to put another shooter on the court and force KG to either play away from the basket or leave open a spotted-up shooter with his feet set.Brutal. Just brutal.

Haslem's on the court because Miami believes he can still shoot. The problem with the play was Lebron didn't attack Garnett when he flashed from Haslem, but unstead took that weaker angle away from the basket to the high post. If they're going to bleed the shot clock then LeBron has to attack the rim or at least get the double (or in this case triple team) that showed to commit itself which he didn't do. BTW, this almost exact play worked earlier in the game when Haslem took the LeBron dish in for the dunk after KG flashed back to him. I found Wade's passivity at the end of OT more baffling though. He got the ball back with at least enough time to get a much better % shot and simply didn't.

 

[matuski]

Wade tried to pass to Chalmers first

It looked like Chalmers was plan B on that play too.

 

[Abraham]

Not that wade has a bad look, I just don't think that's the best play to run coming out of a time out. I know that 99% of the time a team is running an ISo play for a star...but that doesn't make it a good play.

 

[No. 16]

Can't really believe people are defending what LBJ did on the last play of regulation. He passed the ball to the freakin ground! THE GROUND! It didn't even make it to Haslem cleanly.

Think about what we saw.....A MID-AIR BOUNCED PASS TO UDONIS HASLEM with the game on the line.

LBJ just reached a whole new level of unclutchness. LBJ taking a jump shot with triple coverage has better chance of going in than what we saw.

ETA: Wade's shot was a good look. He got the bite on the pump fake and had forever to set his shot. Not sure why he faded/kicke dout his leg there.... I guess fishing for a possible foul, but really ugly form there.

 

[Wu-banger]

Joey Crawford just gave LeBron James a technical for sleeping on the wrong side of the bed and ejected Doc Rivers for not actually holding a PhD .

 

[Synthesizer]

One note about the refs..... these are some of the best athletes on the planet but rather than just play basketball, some of them would rather grab, hold, hook an arm, then flop, look for more contact, then snap their head back like they got shot, etc. Basically just cheating and acting. Makes everything about 10 time more difficult for the referees.

It also doesn't help that the NBA allows 6 fouls to everyone. Even the superstars are out there hacking and grabbing because they have so many fouls to give. Cut it down to 5 fouls and force them to either play good defense or get out of the way.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Can't really believe people are defending what LBJ did on the last play of regulation. He passed the ball to the freakin ground! THE GROUND! It didn't even make it to Haslem cleanly. Think about what we saw.....A MID-AIR BOUNCED PASS TO UDONIS HASLEM with the game on the line. LBJ just reached a whole new level of unclutchness. LBJ taking a jump shot with triple coverage has better chance of going in than what we saw.

I think they're defending the decision to give the ball up. The pass was obviously horrible and looked quite panicky.

 

[TobiasFunke]

"ok guys. I've had all year to design this and it's aWESOME. Pass the ball to dwayne. And then, everyone stand there. And then Dwayne - since you have the ball - do a little move thingy and throw it up from three. Ok? 'heat' on three!"

I don't get it. Wade got a great look.

I'm with you Gunz, if you can get Wade a clean 3 to win the game, you gotta take it

Nothing like having a 29% career 3pt shooter jacking one up off the dribble. I, for one, love when a player takes a low percentage shot at the end of a game.ETA: Also, I'm shocked that TGunz thinks that was a good shot. Shocked I tell you, shocked.

This is part of the problem with having an inexperienced coach. He may be the greatest basketball mind the world has ever seen, but until you've built up enough credit and good will to do the right thing (draw the defense and kick it to Chalmers in the corner for a three), you're going to make the safe play and just let the superstar blow the game to keep the morons at bay. Nobody's gonna ask him about Wade taking the last shot even though it was a terrible play percentage wise. If the ball goes to Chalmers he never hears the end of it even though he did the right thing.It sucks that you have to do things the wrong way before fans and the media will let you do things the right way.

 

[ArbyMelt]

Can't really believe people are defending what LBJ did on the last play of regulation. He passed the ball to the freakin ground! THE GROUND! It didn't even make it to Haslem cleanly. Think about what we saw.....A MID-AIR BOUNCED PASS TO UDONIS HASLEM with the game on the line. LBJ just reached a whole new level of unclutchness. LBJ taking a jump shot with triple coverage has better chance of going in than what we saw.ETA: Wade's shot was a good look. He got the bite on the pump fake and had forever to set his shot. Not sure why he faded/kicke dout his leg there.... I guess fishing for a possible foul, but really ugly form there.

Did you miss Lebron's 3 to tie it with 40 seconds left? Not defending the guy, but how quickly people forget the 3 ptr he made on the previous possession. I think he waited too long on the last possession to start his penetration, and he was too quick to give up the pass, though I think he had to pass in that situation with 3 guys running at him.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Does anyone agree with Magic Johnson who said that Wade, once he got the defender up in the air on the final shot of OT, should have leaned into him and gotten the foul, which would have given him three free throws for the win?

I know some will say, "Wade got an open 3 for the win and you can't ask for more than that," but I can see why Magic would say that. Easy to say once he missed the shot, sure, but still a valid argument.

 

[bostonfred]

Im not one of the ones criticizng lebron, but I think its totally valid to say that a player with his talent should want to be the best, and if you want to be the best, you have to want the ball at the end of the game, and yes, you have to make those shots. remember that commercial/poster/tshirt/quote where jordan talked about how many game winning shots he'd taken and missed? Lebron needs to read that. Because if he wants to leave a legacy as one of the best ever to play the game, it wont be because he made a sick pass to haslem when he was triple teamed. and he wont cure his reputation as a shrinking violet by refusing to take shots, or by missing them. If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them. Otherwise, he will be compared to guys like shaq, who were great and may even have won multiple championships, but had a fatal flaw in their game. Personally, id like to see him push kobe down the list. I think he's more talented and has done more for his teams through the same point in their careers. But he needs to become a closer to do it.

I'm not even a LeBron James fan in particular, but this is just too much. I don't recall ever seeing an elite athlete take this much undeserved crap- not even Peyton Manning in the years before he won a Superbowl, and HE took a whole lot of crap too. I'm not sure what James has to do. If he wins 3 rings with the Heat, and is the key to victory each time, will that shut up his critics? I strongly doubt it. I don't think at this point anything will.

How is this undeserved crap? Im not giving him crap at all. I'm already putting a young player who has never won a championship in the same conversation with one of the greatest players who ever lived. How is that "too much" criticism? Im sorry if im not hyperventilating with hyperbolic claims that he's the best ever, but so far, he isn't on pace to be jordan, or even kobe. Id like him to be. If lebron gets to the end of his career without a ring, and without signature game winning shots, then you'd be crazy to say, yeah, jordan was good, but give me lebron any day. If lebron gets a ring or three, and hits some game winners in the finals, he can move into the conversation. The more of that he does, the further up he will move..Peyton is a fair comparison, actually. early in their careers, people said, brady has the championships, manning has the numbers. Brady supporters could claim that brady would have better numbers with mannings receivers, and manning supporters could claim that manning would have as many or more rings if he'd had bradys defense and head coach. Then manning set the td record, and finally won a championship, despite throwing 3tds and 7 ints in a horrendous individual effort during that playoff run, and the manning supporters crowed that manning could do everything brady could do and more. The next year, brady broke the td record, then the int record, and broke marinos yardage record, taking his team to two more superbowls and compiling better stats than manning, and has rightly earned his place in the conversation of greatest of all time, while manning hasn't done quite as well. When all is said and done, some people may claim that manning was the greatest of all time, just like people may claim lebron or shaq deserve mention. But when they do, some people might point at russell, or montana, and make the rings argument, while others may point at chamberlain, or marino, and make a stats argument, or at manning or shaq themselves and make a choking or hack a shaq argument. When people talk about jordan or brady, the argument becomes more of a personal preference debate. You might like kobe or wilt or russell better than jordan, but you have to concede that its because you think jordan was just ahead of his era, or played a less important position than wilt or russell. You might like marino or montana over brady, but you have to explain why bradys statisitical accomplishments aren't as meaningful as marinos because of the era, or why montanas 4 for 4 in superbowls is better than bradys 3 for 5. It gets harder and harder, the more these guys accomplish. In other words, I think lebron has a chance to be the best ever, no questions asked. But if he wants that, then he has to answer all the questions.

 

[biggamer3]

Does anyone agree with Magic Johnson who said that Wade, once he got the defender up in the air on the final shot of OT, should have leaned into him and gotten the foul, which would have given him three free throws for the win? I know some will say, "Wade got an open 3 for the win and you can't ask for more than that," but I can see why Magic would say that. Easy to say once he missed the shot, sure, but still a valid argument.

not really, if he did the lean in foul thing he could have gotten two free throws and with his ft shooting, i would take a wide open 3 for the win instead. If he could have known he was for sure behind the line, then the 3 FT's would have been best scenario

 

[biggamer3]

Gotta love Rondo's candidness....

 

[TobiasFunke]

Im not one of the ones criticizng lebron, but I think its totally valid to say that a player with his talent should want to be the best, and if you want to be the best, you have to want the ball at the end of the game, and yes, you have to make those shots.

remember that commercial/poster/tshirt/quote where jordan talked about how many game winning shots he'd taken and missed? Lebron needs to read that. Because if he wants to leave a legacy as one of the best ever to play the game, it wont be because he made a sick pass to haslem when he was triple teamed. and he wont cure his reputation as a shrinking violet by refusing to take shots, or by missing them.

If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them. Otherwise, he will be compared to guys like shaq, who were great and may even have won multiple championships, but had a fatal flaw in their game. Personally, id like to see him push kobe down the list. I think he's more talented and has done more for his teams through the same point in their careers. But he needs to become a closer to do it.

I'm not even a LeBron James fan in particular, but this is just too much. I don't recall ever seeing an elite athlete take this much undeserved crap- not even Peyton Manning in the years before he won a Superbowl, and HE took a whole lot of crap too. I'm not sure what James has to do. If he wins 3 rings with the Heat, and is the key to victory each time, will that shut up his critics? I strongly doubt it. I don't think at this point anything will.

How is this undeserved crap? Im not giving him crap at all. I'm already putting a young player who has never won a championship in the same conversation with one of the greatest players who ever lived. How is that "too much" criticism? Im sorry if im not hyperventilating with hyperbolic claims that he's the best ever, but so far, he isn't on pace to be jordan, or even kobe. Id like him to be. If lebron gets to the end of his career without a ring, and without signature game winning shots, then you'd be crazy to say, yeah, jordan was good, but give me lebron any day. If lebron gets a ring or three, and hits some game winners in the finals, he can move into the conversation. The more of that he does, the further up he will move.

.

Peyton is a fair comparison, actually. early in their careers, people said, brady has the championships, manning has the numbers. Brady supporters could claim that brady would have better numbers with mannings receivers, and manning supporters could claim that manning would have as many or more rings if he'd had bradys defense and head coach. Then manning set the td record, and finally won a championship, despite throwing 3tds and 7 ints in a horrendous individual effort during that playoff run, and the manning supporters crowed that manning could do everything brady could do and more. The next year, brady broke the td record, then the int record, and broke marinos yardage record, taking his team to two more superbowls and compiling better stats than manning, and has rightly earned his place in the conversation of greatest of all time, while manning hasn't done quite as well. When all is said and done, some people may claim that manning was the greatest of all time, just like people may claim lebron or shaq deserve mention. But when they do, some people might point at russell, or montana, and make the rings argument, while others may point at chamberlain, or marino, and make a stats argument, or at manning or shaq themselves and make a choking or hack a shaq argument. When people talk about jordan or brady, the argument becomes more of a personal preference debate. You might like kobe or wilt or russell better than jordan, but you have to concede that its because you think jordan was just ahead of his era, or played a less important position than wilt or russell. You might like marino or montana over brady, but you have to explain why bradys statisitical accomplishments aren't as meaningful as marinos because of the era, or why montanas 4 for 4 in superbowls is better than bradys 3 for 5. It gets harder and harder, the more these guys accomplish.

In other words, I think lebron has a chance to be the best ever, no questions asked. But if he wants that, then he has to answer all the questions.

Classic parody of an insane Boston sports fan. Top notch.

Also, he has several playoff game-winners under his belt. I know this will surprise many people, but LeBron has been in the NBA for more than two seasons.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Does anyone agree with Magic Johnson who said that Wade, once he got the defender up in the air on the final shot of OT, should have leaned into him and gotten the foul, which would have given him three free throws for the win?

I know some will say, "Wade got an open 3 for the win and you can't ask for more than that," but I can see why Magic would say that. Easy to say once he missed the shot, sure, but still a valid argument.

And those people would be wrong. You can ask for a lot more than a crappy 3pt shooter taking a 3pt shot.

 

[bostonfred]

If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them.

Link to where LeBron said he wants to be compared to Jordan. TIA.

I don't know if he's said it. I don't even know if he wants that comparison. But a player with his talent should want the comparison. I wouldn't enjoy rooting for a player who didn't want to be the best he could be. I know, because I rooted for manny ramirez for years.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Classic parody of an insane Boston sports fan. Top notch.

Yep. He even managed to work in yet another "Brady is better than Peyton" diatribe, and in an NBA thread. bostonfred is nothing if not consistent.

 

[Todem]

Really tough loss to swallow last night. Boston played outstanding defense for 2 quarters. Then The Heat (I won't use the word "we" since it will start a #### storm of juvinile posts) got themselves back into the game. Lebron hit's a monster "3" with 37 seconds left. The last play of regulation....was a cluster ####. Chalmers drew a third defender towards Lebron hence the poor pass to Udonis.

Then at the end of OT.....Wade was in position to win the game. Plain and simple. He missed the shot, game over, great game.

Heat comes home tomorrow and get's the win to go up 3-2 and back to Boston.

Like I said way back...Epic series. Boston is a tough tough team, full of pride, talent, great coaching. When the Heat went up 2-0....I felt they had to take one in Boston or this will almost surely go 7 games.

Well it is certainly shaping up that way. And the Western Conference Finals are going 7 as well.

Bosh may get some PT in game 5.

 

[Popinski]

Im not one of the ones criticizng lebron, but I think its totally valid to say that a player with his talent should want to be the best, and if you want to be the best, you have to want the ball at the end of the game, and yes, you have to make those shots.

remember that commercial/poster/tshirt/quote where jordan talked about how many game winning shots he'd taken and missed? Lebron needs to read that. Because if he wants to leave a legacy as one of the best ever to play the game, it wont be because he made a sick pass to haslem when he was triple teamed. and he wont cure his reputation as a shrinking violet by refusing to take shots, or by missing them.

If lebron wants to be compared to jordan, he needs to take them and hit them. Otherwise, he will be compared to guys like shaq, who were great and may even have won multiple championships, but had a fatal flaw in their game. Personally, id like to see him push kobe down the list. I think he's more talented and has done more for his teams through the same point in their careers. But he needs to become a closer to do it.

I'm not even a LeBron James fan in particular, but this is just too much. I don't recall ever seeing an elite athlete take this much undeserved crap- not even Peyton Manning in the years before he won a Superbowl, and HE took a whole lot of crap too. I'm not sure what James has to do. If he wins 3 rings with the Heat, and is the key to victory each time, will that shut up his critics? I strongly doubt it. I don't think at this point anything will.

How is this undeserved crap? Im not giving him crap at all. I'm already putting a young player who has never won a championship in the same conversation with one of the greatest players who ever lived. How is that "too much" criticism? Im sorry if im not hyperventilating with hyperbolic claims that he's the best ever, but so far, he isn't on pace to be jordan, or even kobe. Id like him to be. If lebron gets to the end of his career without a ring, and without signature game winning shots, then you'd be crazy to say, yeah, jordan was good, but give me lebron any day. If lebron gets a ring or three, and hits some game winners in the finals, he can move into the conversation. The more of that he does, the further up he will move.

.

Peyton is a fair comparison, actually. early in their careers, people said, brady has the championships, manning has the numbers. Brady supporters could claim that brady would have better numbers with mannings receivers, and manning supporters could claim that manning would have as many or more rings if he'd had bradys defense and head coach. Then manning set the td record, and finally won a championship, despite throwing 3tds and 7 ints in a horrendous individual effort during that playoff run, and the manning supporters crowed that manning could do everything brady could do and more. The next year, brady broke the td record, then the int record, and broke marinos yardage record, taking his team to two more superbowls and compiling better stats than manning, and has rightly earned his place in the conversation of greatest of all time, while manning hasn't done quite as well. When all is said and done, some people may claim that manning was the greatest of all time, just like people may claim lebron or shaq deserve mention. But when they do, some people might point at russell, or montana, and make the rings argument, while others may point at chamberlain, or marino, and make a stats argument, or at manning or shaq themselves and make a choking or hack a shaq argument. When people talk about jordan or brady, the argument becomes more of a personal preference debate. You might like kobe or wilt or russell better than jordan, but you have to concede that its because you think jordan was just ahead of his era, or played a less important position than wilt or russell. You might like marino or montana over brady, but you have to explain why bradys statisitical accomplishments aren't as meaningful as marinos because of the era, or why montanas 4 for 4 in superbowls is better than bradys 3 for 5. It gets harder and harder, the more these guys accomplish.

In other words, I think lebron has a chance to be the best ever, no questions asked. But if he wants that, then he has to answer all the questions.

Classic parody of an insane Boston sports fan. Top notch.

That was entertaining.

 

[biggamer3]

Really tough loss to swallow last night. Boston played outstanding defense for 2 quarters. Then The Heat (I won't use the word "we" since it will start a #### storm of juvinile posts) got themselves back into the game. Lebron hit's a monster "3" with 37 seconds left. The last play of regulation....was a cluster ####. Chalmers drew a third defender towards Lebron hence the poor pass to Udonis.

Then at the end of OT.....Wade was in position to win the game. Plain and simple. He missed the shot, game over, great game.

Heat comes home tomorrow and get's the win to go up 3-2 and back to Boston.

Like I said way back...Epic series. Boston is a tough tough team, full of pride, talent, great coaching. When the Heat went up 2-0....I felt they had to take one in Boston or this will almost surely go 7 games.

Well it is certainly shaping up that way. And the Western Conference Finals are going 7 as well.

Bosh may get some PT in game 5.

This is all on Spo, why the hell werent there 5 shooters on the floor in that situation?

 

[culdeus]

Is it possible that the series are getting fixed to go 7 games? Or at least 6? Sure seems that way from the calls I've seen.

 

[Synthesizer]

Does anyone agree with Magic Johnson who said that Wade, once he got the defender up in the air on the final shot of OT, should have leaned into him and gotten the foul, which would have given him three free throws for the win?

Since Wade would have needed to lean WAY out of his current position in order to create contact, I thought it would have been a no-call. And I hope the refs would have had the balls to leave it as a no-call. When a guy pump fakes and then lean 4 feet to the side in order to create contact, that shouldn't be a foul on the defender.

 

[Abraham]

Is it possible that the series are getting fixed to go 7 games? Or at least 6? Sure seems that way from the calls I've seen.

No. Basketball games could conceivably be officiated in a way that one team gets an advantage. But the shots still have to go in. And if the fix was in last night for Boston to win then they would have not blown a double digit lead.

 

[wilked]

People are giving Lebron a little too much credit for that 3 ball I think... dude was as wide open as pre-game shootaround. I give him credit, but let's stop short of comparing it to what Wade was attempting in overtime...

 

[Todem]

Really tough loss to swallow last night. Boston played outstanding defense for 2 quarters. Then The Heat (I won't use the word "we" since it will start a #### storm of juvinile posts) got themselves back into the game. Lebron hit's a monster "3" with 37 seconds left. The last play of regulation....was a cluster ####. Chalmers drew a third defender towards Lebron hence the poor pass to Udonis.

Then at the end of OT.....Wade was in position to win the game. Plain and simple. He missed the shot, game over, great game.

Heat comes home tomorrow and get's the win to go up 3-2 and back to Boston.

Like I said way back...Epic series. Boston is a tough tough team, full of pride, talent, great coaching. When the Heat went up 2-0....I felt they had to take one in Boston or this will almost surely go 7 games.

Well it is certainly shaping up that way. And the Western Conference Finals are going 7 as well.

Bosh may get some PT in game 5.

This is all on Spo, why the hell werent there 5 shooters on the floor in that situation?

Yeah I don't disagree. Spo needed to draw up a better play. This was a team loss though. In OT we had 10 chances to win this game. We missed 10 shots in OT. So the team blew this one in the end. Spo blew it in regulation.....maybe. No matter what play is drawn up....the players have to drain the shot.

What has been amazing is the piss poor officating for both sides. I hope they start tighting up as this is a best of three. If your going to hole and drawing contact....you should be at the line. I counted numerous fouls on Boston last night as Lebron and Wade drive the lane....numerous non-calls. Also Boston had some non-calls on the Heat. It has really been a mess.

And the last three fouls called on Lebron???? Come on. Really? It was a mess. I can't stand Joey Crawford....can't stand him.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

People are giving Lebron a little too much credit for that 3 ball I think... dude was as wide open as pre-game shootaround. I give him credit, but let's stop short of comparing it to what Wade was attempting in overtime...

So don't give LeBron much credit for hitting a clutch shot to tie the game in the last minute but give Wade more credit for missing a terrible shot at the end of OT?

 

[Dought Man]

People are giving Lebron a little too much credit for that 3 ball I think... dude was as wide open as pre-game shootaround. I give him credit, but let's stop short of comparing it to what Wade was attempting in overtime...

They will create a new stat to discredit Lebron's made field goals that are "too open".

 

[wilked]

Todem, I think you are targeting the wrong guy... Crawford was not making those end of game calls last night, it was the infamous Kennedy. I thought Crawford called a great game last night personally