Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Raptors with another heartbreaker. Deeeeep 3 by Irving.
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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I sure hope not. Its the hall of fame. Not the hall of pretty good.
Not in HOF has Foust at #27 of best not in hall:http://notinhalloffame.com/basketball?start=15Top 5 are:Gary Payton (obviously going to make it)Bernard KingSpender HaywoodJack SilmaMark AguirreSidney MoncriefBuck WilliamsBob DandridgeMax ZaslofskyMaurice LucasBosh is going to be at or near the top of this list (outside of Payton who will make it) if he doesn't actually make it. I'm going to guess he's probably right. I really think other guys like McGrady, Hill, and others are likely to make it as well though. Not 1st ballot for a lot of these, but they're eventually going to make it. They're going to be near the top of the list of snubs if not.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Dat boy good
It sure seems like the hall of pretty good when you look at the list of guys that didn't quite make it. And some of the guys that actually did. Everybody on this list with a * next to them is a HOF'er. Bosh is most definitely better than some of these guys making up the bottom.http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi
Look at the number of guys getting put in every year as well:http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers-index/There's like half a dozen guys every year it seems. This year Reggie Miller, Ralph Sampson, Chet Walker, Mel Daniels, and Jamaal Wilkes got elected. I'm putting Chris Bosh in over any of those guys I imagine. I guess this is what happens when you have so few starting players in a league but have to hold some big ceremony every year.Who else they going to trot out with Gary Payton this year? It's not like they have a whole pile of guys that dominated left to pick from.
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Pretty sad. If they switch over to Simmon's pyramid idea, Bosh would be getting told to put the lotion on his skin.
the moops
Footballguy
League average TS% is 54.0. Rudy Gay is at 47.8 this year, and 52.6 for his career.League average PER is 16.6. Rudy Gay is at 14.4 this year, and 16.1 for his career.He is not an especially good 3 point shooter (34% for his career), he doesn't score efficiently, he doesn't play defense, and he is a below average rebounder and passer for a small forward.I would want Pau Gasol or Paul Pierce over Rudy Gay and the 37 million owed to him over the next two years. I'm not sure how he convinced everyone that he is anything but an average small forward in this league.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Link? Sounds interesting.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Kyrie Irving is a bad, bad man.
Maybe so, but there's a lot of guys people seem to be saying aren't going to make it that eventually should the way it stands. May take them a while and they'll be on quite a few ballots before the trigger is pulled, but I don't see how you can keep a guy like Grant Hill out when you put in a guy like Sampson based pretty much entirely on his college achievements. Hill played in 3 title games, one of them as the top dog, and has an impressive college resume overall to go with his 7 All-Star appearances and actually finishing 3rd in MVP voting at one point. Derailed by injuries or not, that's a HOF resume based on what they just put in there.Vince Carter with 2 final 4 appearances and 8 All-Star games? Not a first ballot guy, but he's pretty much a lock. McGrady with 7 All-Star appearances, a couple of scoring titles, and 4 top 6 finishes in MVP voting? Playoff results aside, he was clearly one of the top 5-10 players in the league for about 6 years. Lock. Earlier post suggested Mutombo might not make it. With 8 All Star appearances, 4 defensive player of the year awards, and a couple of rebounding titles? Lock.Yao's 8 All-Star appearances and the international play? Lock.There's a list of guys not as good as these ones in last year's class alone. It's not the NFL where they have a pile of positions to choose from. It's not even baseball. Figure if you elect 3 players a year on average (and they seem the be going even beyond that) you're going to have 30 players on average per decade. These players are all among the top 30 players in their given decade.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
The most recent version I could find is here, but I know he's updated it since then. Basketball-Reference has his Top-96 rankings but it does not list the different levels of the pyramid.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with a list that has Robert Horry at #84. He's obviously weighting team accomplishments pretty heavily.As far as the levels and such, I think we all pretty much acknowledge that not all HOF'ers are created equally. Duncan, Kobe, Garnett - these guys could have accomplished half of what they did and still be a lock, and some of the guys already there barely deserve to be in there if at all depending on what you feel is "HOF worthy". Bosh is clearly in the bottom rung with his credentials today and what's currently in there. He's not going first ballot or anything, but he should go. Well before Robert Horry.
His assertion that he was a lock 4 years ago is pretty silly and he obviously has an inflated opinion of what he has accomplished. But today it's hard to argue against him. And he'll likely notch another AS appearance or 2 - maybe even more as he's still only 28. The hall simply isn't turning someone with 10 AS appearances away. You're not going to come up with a gigantic list of players more worthy over that 10 year span.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
Blazers big win tonight. Batum is the most underrated player in the NBA and it's not even close to close.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Agreed.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Damnit...wolves were so close. Now everyone is hurt.
A. Davis #3.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
#4 on my list, but you'll get no argument from me for having him at 3.
Britney Spears
guest speaker
Great shot, but just terrible defense on that play. After he walked the clock down, what else was he going to do?'Captain Quinoa said:
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Rondo torn ACL. Done for the season. :(Barbosa time?
the moops
Footballguy
Blow up the team time probably
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The market is so limited when it comes to older players on large contracts. Particularly these days. They probably will have to ride things out.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Rondo going down opens the door for DET/PHI/TOR to get that all important 8 seed.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
'Good said:
the moops
Footballguy
Pierce only has 5 million guaranteed next year. Garnett is only making 12 million for the next 2 years.If Ainge wants to blow it up, those guys can fairly easily be moved. Not sure how much you would get for them though.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
A Rondo-less Boston about to beat the Heat.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
That's kind of my point. Sure, they could trade them but I don't see the Celtics being able to get back key pieces for their future.
boubucarow
Footballguy
His rankings do not attempt to answer who was the best player of all time. It ranks them more so by who is more accomplished or greatest legacy wise. The rankings make sense through that window of thought (which I disagree with entirely).As for the Hall of Fame, it is too difficult to flesh out the college, international, professional, and coaches aspects to come up with any sort of defendable baseline for current players.'DrJ said:I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with a list that has Robert Horry at #84. He's obviously weighting team accomplishments pretty heavily.As far as the levels and such, I think we all pretty much acknowledge that not all HOF'ers are created equally. Duncan, Kobe, Garnett - these guys could have accomplished half of what they did and still be a lock, and some of the guys already there barely deserve to be in there if at all depending on what you feel is "HOF worthy". Bosh is clearly in the bottom rung with his credentials today and what's currently in there. He's not going first ballot or anything, but he should go. Well before Robert Horry.'Joe Summer said:
Workhorse
Footballguy
What future? The Celtics are now in full on rebuilding mode for the next 3-5 years. Danny needs to dump salary, get awful and lucky in the lottery the next two years. Just a catastrophic injury.
Zaxxon
Footballguy
Garnett and 2 firsts for Donuts.
Balco
Footballguy
Good stuff. Not a shot.Obviously Garnett won't get full value due to his knees and age, but no way are the Celtics taking on that albatross of a contract in return. The Celtics are old, and without Rondo, pretty horrible. They need to clear cap space, that is goal number one. And if they can get a solid rotational player in the process, that's good too.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Rondo didn't die. He'll be back next year.
Abraham
Footballguy
Garnett for Martin (expiring) and jones....?
Balco
Footballguy
Just don't see it working. Garnett has 2 more years on his contract after this one. Not sure the Thunder would want to take that on.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Houston isn't just going to give Donuts away.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Really physical, too. A lot of contact.It's getting to Westbrook.
timschochet
Footballguy
The only times in the past few years when the Lakers have played competitively with OKC is when Westbrook, for whatever reason, does poorly.
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