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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
- Start date
biggamer3
Footballguy
Not sure if you know this, but Humphries is alot more than just his numbers and his minutes per game. He brings lots of intangibles to any squad has a very reasonable contract (2 years 24M). If the Hawks want Hump (and they really do according to "sources") they will have to pony up Josh Smith and his expiring as well as either Teague or Mike Bibby (who I believe is still being paid by the Hawks)Exactly.I can't belive this is even a question. The Nets would have to throw in more than Kris ####### Humphries to get Smith from Atlanta.Humphries is playing 19 minutes a game. Reggie Evans, who may be the worst offensive player in the league, and has been a role playing, defensive rebounder his entire career, is playing more minutes and starting.Josh Smith is a huge, huge upgrade for the Nets.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
biggamer3
Footballguy
exactly, everyone overlooks the intangibles. But he brings them. He can be a leader in the locker room, he can gather the guys around during long road trips and tell them Kim K stories about the time he thinks he took her virginity in the swimming pool. He is as beloved a teammate as many Nets player have ever had and that is the reason he is the focal point of all the deals right now. Nets can get either Dwight or Josh Smith with Hump as the centerpiece since other teams are aware of these intangibles.Ahh ####!I always forget about the intangibles.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Terrible loss for Portland at home to the Suns. They've now lost 6 straight. Coming off a 33 point loss at New Orleans, not a good way to start the 2nd half. Toss them from the playoff picture.Portland needs to make getting a bench a priority this offseason. When Nolan Smith (who shouldn't even be on an NBA roster) is playing at crunch time, you have problems.
Abraham
Footballguy
Is Aldridge available? This trade works...Millsap and P.Patterson to PortlandAldridge to HoustonDelfino and Marcus Morris to Utah. (FWIW, looking at utah's roster I'm not sure how they aren't better.)
He's turning in to a nice player. Walker (eating my crow), MKG, Mullens, and Henderson (another guy developing well) aren't going to scare Miami, but they are closer to being a .500 team than most realize IMO.
Abraham
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
No. Aldridge doesn't get traded unless it is for a top 10 guy.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Anyone think we'll see much action today and tomorrow? I know trades can go down to the wire but I'm thinking things are going to fizzle this deadline.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Sounds like Morey may be listening to Abe:
Who is going to give up a 1st round pick for a guy who can't even stay in the league?
Abraham
Footballguy
They are getting him reps. McHale has only given minutes to Donuts and Jones a few times as he doesn't like how rookies play defense. Morris and Patterson have been sufficient at the 4, and either with them or with a pursuit of JSmith there doesn't appear to be much room for Jones (and White and even Donuts) on the roster. Most of the talk last summer was about how there would be minutes for two or three of the PFs and the other two would be moved. If they plan on making the playoffs this season (and I think they are trying) then Morris and Patterson aren't going anywhere unless its for a clear upgrade at the PF position (Smith, for example). Douglas and ALdrich and Cook have fallen out of the rotation completely and I could see either or both being moved for a future 1 or a 2nd this season or as part of another deal.I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
A bunch of mid picks on a team where the coach won't play them? Not very well thought out.
Abraham
Footballguy
Well, a couple of the picks (including the one used on Lamb) were instrumental in the Harden deal.And while no one is going to give up 18 or better, the 18th pick is "over." They can't go back and use it again. So let's say they have come to the conclusion that Jones simply isn't going to get minutes at the four on this team for the next few years. It would make sense to, for example, call Chicago and say, "We'll give you JOnes for Rip Hamilton and the protected Bobcats pick and some cash."I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
True but a GM who's goal it is to stock pile assets, is having those assets devalued by a coach who isn't playing them.Well, a couple of the picks (including the one used on Lamb) were instrumental in the Harden deal.And while no one is going to give up 18 or better, the 18th pick is "over." They can't go back and use it again. So let's say they have come to the conclusion that Jones simply isn't going to get minutes at the four on this team for the next few years. It would make sense to, for example, call Chicago and say, "We'll give you JOnes for Rip Hamilton and the protected Bobcats pick and some cash."I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
Abraham
Footballguy
I won't disagree there. I don't know if playing Jones right now would increase or decrease his value. He played well in Vegas but he was no better than the 18th best player in last years draft (else he would have been selected higher). I would imagine that history would tell us that first round picks that don't pay right away typically lose value for a few years just because something new has come along. Look at Courtney Lee. He was drafted 22nd. A year later he was one of three guys traded for Ryan Anderson and Vince Carter (Nets get fleeced). A year later he is traded to Houston for a protected 1st. And a year after that he is traded to Boston for a first. By all accounts he is a 10ppg/4rpg/3apg backup shooting guard type who can find minutes in the rotation. He seems to - basically - be worth a mid-late first round pick. At this point, Lee is unlikely to get 30 mpg as a starting SG, but he is a functional player. The Rockets acquired him as an asset and basically got back...a little less than they gave up to get him. People get so excited about the draft and finding star players but the reality is that very few guys outside of the "top tier" go on to be more than Courtney-Lee type players. Maybe Jones is going to get passed around the league and eventually be a 5 year journeyman that gets you 9 and 6 off the bench. And perhaps NBA teams value "assets" like that a little differently then fans that want to think the new guy on the team might be special.I don't know if they'll trade Jones (or White or Donuts, etc.) nor what the price might be for such a player. But it appears you can draft a guy like Courtney lee late in the first or simply trade a late first for an existing Courtney Lee.Not sure where I was gonig with thiss...
the moops
Footballguy
Celtics gave up a 2nd round pick, not a first.
The problem is that it was foreseeable that they'd be in this position even at the time of the draft. It's just impossible to develop that many guys at the same time. I'm not sure what options morey had on draft day, but I would have at least tried to trade one or two of those 2012 firsts for 2013 firsts. I don't like his strategy of just taking a ton of mid round guys and hoping one of them pans out, because the coaching staff was never going to have an adequate opportunity to properly make those evaluations.Well, a couple of the picks (including the one used on Lamb) were instrumental in the Harden deal.And while no one is going to give up 18 or better, the 18th pick is "over." They can't go back and use it again. So let's say they have come to the conclusion that Jones simply isn't going to get minutes at the four on this team for the next few years. It would make sense to, for example, call Chicago and say, "We'll give you JOnes for Rip Hamilton and the protected Bobcats pick and some cash."I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
Abraham
Footballguy
True. In this case the pick was supposed to be Tyler zeller and when he was taken they might not have had time to make a trade. I agree that another first would have been ideal.The problem is that it was foreseeable that they'd be in this position even at the time of the draft. It's just impossible to develop that many guys at the same time. I'm not sure what options morey had on draft day, but I would have at least tried to trade one or two of those 2012 firsts for 2013 firsts. I don't like his strategy of just taking a ton of mid round guys and hoping one of them pans out, because the coaching staff was never going to have an adequate opportunity to properly make those evaluations.Well, a couple of the picks (including the one used on Lamb) were instrumental in the Harden deal.And while no one is going to give up 18 or better, the 18th pick is "over." They can't go back and use it again. So let's say they have come to the conclusion that Jones simply isn't going to get minutes at the four on this team for the next few years. It would make sense to, for example, call Chicago and say, "We'll give you JOnes for Rip Hamilton and the protected Bobcats pick and some cash."I sort of like Jones but this is the downside to having 10 mid first round picks on your roster. You can't develop them all and now they have to trade potentially talented guys like Jones for 50 cents on the dollar. Nobody is going to give up the 18th pick or better for this guy.
Moe.
Footballguy
I'm ignorant as far as the salary cap ramifications go but please let this be true. I don't want to watch Perkins anymore. I just can't take it. How is it possible to be a professional athlete but not be able to catch the ball?
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
It works under the cap. I just don't see why Phoenix would be interested in this. Is Lamb really worth downgrading from Gortat to Perkin, in terms of skill and contract?
biggamer3
Footballguy
I dont know why Phx wouldnt do this. Gortat is not taking them to the next level, lamb and a first rounder is going to help them a lot more in the future. They should be stockpiling assets, bottoming out for once and in a few years and a few high picks they could be good again.Phx problem was that they never bottomed out yet and kept hovering around .500 every year
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
They don't do this because Perkins is a terrible player and owed $8M+ for the next 2 years. Unless OKC has a pick from someone else, Pheonix would be getting a kid who can't even sniff the floor in OKC stay on an NBA roster, a pick at the end of the first round and a useless player... all of that for their best asset. In no way is that a good deal.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
JJ has been coming on as of late....DWill needs to pick it up. If the Nets don't make a move they still are in the thick of it but would likely end up with the #4-5 seed....but if they can land J Smith or another good player they could grab the #2 seed. Either way its a great turnaround!
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So why do the Lakers want to keep him and give him a max deal then if he is so bad?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Because they feel like they don't have another viable exit strategy.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Trading for Josh Smith and moving Gasol back to starting C isn't viable?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Not while Gasol's foot doesn't work. Also neither Gasol or Smith could be viewed as the future of the franchise, which is what they're hoping they got in Howard when they traded Bynum. They've backed themselves into a corner that they really can't get out of without risking another 1993 or 2004 sometime pretty soon. Of course this season could go down as even worse than those two if it keeps going the way it's been going, but I still think the management are hoping Howard can be the future. Now that I'm getting more exposure to how the guy seems to be, I'm not sure that's a great idea, so I can only hope they're more cluefull than I.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
If Howard walks though, they are in serious trouble without any real tradable assets and being so far over the cap that they cannot sign anybody.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Obviously they're willing to risk that. It would all totally unwind after next year in that case anyway as they'd have nobody on the books but Nash. I'd imagine they'd amnesty out of the last year of Metta's contract at that point also so they're not paying quite as much luxury tax next year.
biggamer3
Footballguy
well Gortat is a FA next year i believe, so unless they want to overpay him, they are better off getting some assets before they are going to get nothing for him. Perkins is off the books after next season, its not like the Suns need the cap space for next year, the plan will be to bottom out and collect draft picks any ways.I know nothing about Lamb, but i am sure the Suns can get Perry Jones and Lamb if they really wanted to make this deal happen
biggamer3
Footballguy
Dwight will get a max deal for what he has accomplished up until last year and because of his age and position. Him being a knucklehead is becoming routine though.
I have to say though, if he never wins a championship his complete destruction of the Laker franchise could go down as his crowning achievement. This whole thing is something pretty special.
matuski
Footballguy
What exactly has he accomplished?
saintfool
Dead sexy
Pop's a sweetheart.
Phil Jackson: Lakers not utilizing Dwight Howard right
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/02/19/phil-jackson-los-angeles-lakers-dwight-howard/1931831/
3 DPOY awards. Leading the league in rebounding 5 of the last 6 seasons, including this year (in average).
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Complete destruction?
It's not over yet.
biggamer3
Footballguy
is this a troll post? Dwight was a unanimous top 3 player up until last season. He was averaging about 20/14 and close to 3 blocks a game for the last 5 years before this one while shooting close to 60% from the floor. And he constantly led his crappy Magic team to 50+ wins and even took them to a Finals. Now look at all the other players getting max deals, Hibbert, Gay, Gordon, Batum etc... Of course Dwight deserves a max deal in this NBA climate but the fact he is becoming so unlikable is crazy since its all self inflicted. I was watching his old slam dunk contest where he was wearing superman cape and all, everyone loved Dwight back then.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Gortat is under contract for next season and Perkins in under contract for the next two. Yes, they need to bottom out and get picks but giving up your best asset for guys that are in the D-League and a late 1st round pick is not the way to do it.
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