*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

Congratulations also in order to the Los Angeles Lakers, who today can finally say "it's a new season starting today" and not be laughed at.

 

[17seconds]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

 

[sporthenry]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

When was that a weakness? Like four years ago?

Last year his FG% on jump shots was 39.3 with an EFG% of 44.3. This year he was at 44.7% with an EFG% of 52.8% at the time of an ESPN article.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

When was that a weakness? Like four years ago?

 

[Abraham]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

It really angered people? I don't see why people should be angered about him raising a ton of money for charity.

 

[Abraham]

Bad bait.

 

[17seconds]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

I agree it was a huge blunder and I laughed at it when it happened.

But ultimately Lebron had every right to go to another team and the decision should be a blip in his career, not a defining moment.

 

[sporthenry]

The Spurs defensive plan was to sag off and make LeBron take jump shots. So obviously, they saw something. This article shows that the jump shot was one of the deciding factors in this series. And he even acknowledged working on his jump shot. I'd say this was the year he went over the hump and turned the jump shot from a relative weakness to a strength.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

It really angered people? I don't see why people should be angered about him raising a ton of money for charity.

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

 

[Abraham]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

I agree it was a huge blunder and I laughed at it when it happened.

But ultimately Lebron had every right to go to another team and the decision should be a blip in his career, not a defining moment.

I think many (most?) don't care that he changed teams. I sure didn't. He can go wherever he wants and play with whoever he wants. The parade was stupid and I think losing to Dallas was comeuppance for that. If he had held a press conference saying "I will always love Cleveland and this was a hard decision, but the best choice for me right now is to sign with the Miami heat" most people outside of Cleveland would have shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

 

[17seconds]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

I agree it was a huge blunder and I laughed at it when it happened.

But ultimately Lebron had every right to go to another team and the decision should be a blip in his career, not a defining moment.

I think many (most?) don't care that he changed teams. I sure didn't. He can go wherever he wants and play with whoever he wants. The parade was stupid and I think losing to Dallas was comeuppance for that. If he had held a press conference saying "I will always love Cleveland and this was a hard decision, but the best choice for me right now is to sign with the Miami heat" most people outside of Cleveland would have shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

I just find it strange that people would hold all the silly PR stuff over his head for years and years. Again, he's not a perpetual jerk like Kobe or Iverson.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The Spurs defensive plan was to sag off and make LeBron take jump shots. So obviously, they saw something. This article shows that the jump shot was one of the deciding factors in this series. And he even acknowledged working on his jump shot. I'd say this was the year he went over the hump and turned the jump shot from a relative weakness to a strength.

I'd say it's the year he took it from a relative strength to basically unfair. He's been a good midrange shooter for several years now, this year he basically turned into a guy in a video game with the setting on "easy."

I think what the Spurs did was more about getting in his head than forcing him to play inefficiently. Here's a good read about it that I posted after Game 3. Basically they threw him a wrinkle nobody had tried in a while, and he was flustered for a bit before solving it. From the article:

The odd thing about the Spurs' strategy is that it shouldn't work in 2013. James shot 48 percent from 20-24 feet this season, according to NBA.com's stats page. That's an elite figure. The Spurs' decision to gift James that shot runs in defiance of those numbers.

But the Spurs aren't playing James based on his percentages; they're playing him based on his tendencies. There's an important distinction between the two. The Spurs know that James prefers to take his time and survey the floor whenever possible. They know that James can be a reluctant shooter that instead prefers to use his strength to drive and his vision to find players as he attacks. Within all that, sure, James will occasionally rise and fire effectively, but it's in situations where he feels comfortable with how he's being covered. By playing several feet off him, the Spurs are putting James' brain in an unfamiliar situation that is causing him to hesitate

It's an approach fueled, ironically, by gut feel, not analytics. It's also one that deserves way more credit than it'll probably get for slowing James down.

 

[Abraham]

Not that it matters here with regard to "most famous athletes in the world" but I imagine among active athletes Lebron is at least behind neymar, messi, and Ronaldo. Probably behind tiger. Probably close or just behind Kobe. Anyone else?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not that it matters here with regard to "most famous athletes in the world" but I imagine among active athletes Lebron is at least behind neymar, messi, and Ronaldo. Probably behind tiger. Probably close or just behind Kobe. Anyone else?

Usain Bolt maybe. Although with the exception of Kobe, those other guys could put on a cap and dark sunglasses and go to the corner market for a six-pack without anyone noticing.

 

[boubucarow]

I have never seen better games 6 and 7 in the finals (20+ years). LeBron can dominate on the biggest stage on a level that I think includes only MJ and Shaq (among those I have seen). The development in his game has been impressive from the post game,to the jump shot, to the off the ball defense....

 

[thecatch]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3". I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

I'm not disagreeing with what your eyes told you. I'm just saying that his entire body of work makes him a hall of famer. 20/10 for almost a decade? Those guys are few and far between.

There are much better PFs that arent in the hall, IMO. If bosh does it will be on the basis of riding Lebron's coattails. Which is fine - I'm not one to get sanctimonious about the Bball HOF, but I certainly understand the gut reaction to the claim bosh is a HOFer.

Name 3, and please give quantifiable data. Our starting point is 8 all star games, Olympic gold, two rings (although I first made my point when he only had one ring) and 19/9 career.

Chris webber was better for starters and it doesn't look like he will make it.

I'm not hating on bosh, expressing doubt that he'll get in, or stating that his résumé isn't good enough to get in. But the eye test certainly doesn't scream that he's one of the all time greats (and really, how many all time greats would ever throw up a stinker like last night in their prime). I think he's very good and if he got put on a fringe lottery team like Houston where he'd be a bigger part of the game plan, I think we'd see his numbers jump back up.

 

[sporthenry]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

 

[sporthenry]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

What is so funny?

 

[TobiasFunke]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

What is so funny?

This is an NBA thread and I bet half the people in here don't even know who Parker is. He's ranked #3 in his class by one of the two main recruiting sites and #4 by the other. And his class contains probably the best pro prospect in 5 years, so even if he was #2 (which again, he's not) he'd be so overshadowed that he'd still be basically anonymous to the general public. He could probably walk down Michigan Avenue in his hometown or 9th St in Durham tomorrow and no more than a handful of people would recognize him.

He's not dealing with anything remotely resembling what we're talking about here.

 

[sporthenry]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

What is so funny?

This is an NBA thread and I bet half the people in here don't even know who Parker is. He's ranked #3 in his class by one of the two main recruiting sites and #4 by the other. And his class contains probably the best pro prospect in 5 years, so even if he was #2 (which again, he's not) he'd be so overshadowed that he'd still be basically anonymous to the general public. He could probably walk down Michigan Avenue in his hometown or 9th St in Durham tomorrow and no more than a handful of people would recognize him.

He's not dealing with anything remotely resembling what we're talking about here.

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball player since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

Uh, in case you didn't know, hockey is pretty big in Canada. Sidney has had a ridiculous amount of hype surrounding him since he was 11-12.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

To touch on a few points that have been brought up regarding the LeBron hate, I think that a lot of it has to do with people's oversaturation with him. I mean, everybody's known who he was since he was like a sophomore in high school. What other player has ever really been like that? Before my time, but it seems like maybe Alcindor was the closest thing to being that known and that successful from such an early age and sustained it. And that was 40 years ago before the media blitz of today.

Who else is comparable today? Maybe only Tiger. And how happy were people when he failed?

Add to this oversaturation the way that he dealt with Cleveland and the whole Decision broadcast, and many people are just going to go the other way. Like the Yankees, Notre Dame, Lakers, Duke, etc., the perpetual, sustaining icon is going to get blowback from a lot of people.

I agree with TF that I can't imagine what it has been like to live LeBron's life and deal with the scrutiny and pressure from such a young age. And yet, to this point, he has really handled it all as best as I think you could expect him to.

Americans seem to like flaws and they love to see people fall.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

 

[TobiasFunke]

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

Uh, in case you didn't know, hockey is pretty big in Canada. Sidney has had a ridiculous amount of hype surrounding him since he was 11-12.

See bolded.

 

[matuski]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

When was that a weakness? Like four years ago?

Throughout the series. Pop was giving him those shots for a reason. It got to the point he clearly didn't even want to take them, thus my finding his performance in game 7 impressive.

Not even worth arguing that his jump shot remains a weakness for him, despite improving drastically over the last few years.

You can stand down now.

 

[sporthenry]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

My bad, I must have mentioned where guys in every recruiting class are on the cover of SI comparing them to LeBron. I used SI covers as a point of reference for hype hence why I included Telfair as well.

I doubt its 90% to 50% who know Wiggins and not Parker. But I included Parker b/c he was on the cover of the biggest sports magazine in the country as a HS phenom. If you want to drop him from the list, so be it, but that is why I included him.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

Seems kind of silly to include Adu as well. Adu has been a bust, but only soccer fans care. And we're no more numerous than hockey fans.

 

[hxperson]

It bothered me for like a week, then I realized that there's someone who's done way worse on pretty much every professional sports team.

I can't imagine what it's like to live life as LeBron James. He's been famous since he was 15. He's arguably the biggest star in the world in a time when Twitter and camera phones other things have changed public life so much that there's really no blueprint for him. I think he comes off relatively well considering. He clearly learned from the Decision and some of his subsequent PR blunders like the "not one, not two ..." thing and his comments about people having to go back to their boring lives. I don't remember anything particularly toolish from him in the last two years.

This. I think he learned his lesson, and has acted much more mature and grown up about things since then. A lot of people will always hold that against him, though; I get that.

Watching him interviewed last night was IMO seeing an older, wiser, adult edition of LeBron.Think about all the athletes put through the hype machine since sports media became omnipresent. LeBron was on the cover of SI as a junior in high school with a cover story about how awesome he was going to be. Well, he lived up to the hype. What other athlete in the last 20 years got as much hype before even participating at the sport's highest level and lived up to it? Tiger Woods?

To be fair, what other athlete has gotten that much hype to begin with? He certainly deserves credit for following through but apart from maybe Tiger, I don't think there has been a more hyped player. But guys like Crosby and Harper (at least so far) have lived up to their hype. Counter that with guys like Adu or Telfair and it almost seems like a 50/50 propsition.

We'll have two more examples with Parker and Wiggins.

LeBron, Harper, Adu and Tiger were dealing with something totally different than the rest of those guys as far as the US market goes. Crosby would be the same if anyone cared about hockey, but they don't.

Uh, in case you didn't know, hockey is pretty big in Canada. Sidney has had a ridiculous amount of hype surrounding him since he was 11-12.

I would argue Crosby hasn't come as close to living up to the hype as Lebron. Lebron has been mentioned in the same breath as Jordan for years now. Nobody would do the same with Crosby to even someone like Mario Lemieux.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

When was that a weakness? Like four years ago?

Posts like this and the one from tobias really make me wonder how much you guys actually watch the games. If you can't acknowledge that LeBron's jumper was his weakness, prior to this year, you're just being obtuse.

To LeBron's credit, he took his only weakness (although it was a big one), and made it a strength. The biggest bucket of the game last night was his contested mid-range jumper with ~ 27 seconds left. That's a shot that teams were happy to live with previously, and often LeBron seemed very hesitant to take in late game situations. LeBron has put in the work and now when he takes that shot, I think most expect it to go in. That wasn't the case last year. The book was to make him beat you from the outside. He won a title from the outside last night. IMO, it's not last night's title that cemented his GOAT status, but the way that he won last night's Game 7. Assuming his jumper remains this wet, or even improves slightly, there is absolutely no way to defend him, at all. No one has ever had this complete of a package.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

My bad, I must have mentioned where guys in every recruiting class are on the cover of SI comparing them to LeBron. I used SI covers as a point of reference for hype hence why I included Telfair as well.

I doubt its 90% to 50% who know Wiggins and not Parker. But I included Parker b/c he was on the cover of the biggest sports magazine in the country as a HS phenom. If you want to drop him from the list, so be it, but that is why I included him.

I don't care who is on a list or not. The point was that a certain group of guys have been dealing with being public figures since age 15. Guys who will find themselves on Deadspin the next day if someone gets a video of them being rude to a fan or drinking beer when underage. Guys who will always be remembered as "busts" by even casual fans and will become cautionary tales if they don't make it big. That's something that's impossible to relate to, and I imagine it's gotta be a huge burden that affects their personalities.

Wiggins is arguably in that kind of situation. Parker definitely is not, nor is Randle, nor for that matter is Nerlens Noel.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

Seems kind of silly to include Adu as well. Adu has been a bust, but only soccer fans care. And we're no more numerous than hockey fans.

Yeah, his was kind of a weird case. He was gonna change the future of his sport in the United States, which is arguably more pressure than LeBron or Harper. Tiger had a little of that going, but Adu was viewed as the guy soccer fans had been waiting decades for who would finally make Americans care about soccer. But soccer was and still is a niche sport in his country, so he kinda had both more and less pressure than those guys.

 

[Frostillicus]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

My bad, I must have mentioned where guys in every recruiting class are on the cover of SI comparing them to LeBron. I used SI covers as a point of reference for hype hence why I included Telfair as well.

I doubt its 90% to 50% who know Wiggins and not Parker. But I included Parker b/c he was on the cover of the biggest sports magazine in the country as a HS phenom. If you want to drop him from the list, so be it, but that is why I included him.

I don't care who is on a list or not. The point was that a certain group of guys have been dealing with being public figures since age 15. Guys who will find themselves on Deadspin the next day if someone gets a video of them being rude to a fan or drinking beer when underage. Guys who will always be remembered as "busts" by even casual fans and will become cautionary tales if they don't make it big.

Wiggins is arguably in that kind of situation. Parker definitely is not, nor is Randle, nor for that matter is Nerlens Noel.

Yeah, but you think Jacque Vaughn was a combo guard at Kansas.

 

[sporthenry]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

My bad, I must have mentioned where guys in every recruiting class are on the cover of SI comparing them to LeBron. I used SI covers as a point of reference for hype hence why I included Telfair as well.

I doubt its 90% to 50% who know Wiggins and not Parker. But I included Parker b/c he was on the cover of the biggest sports magazine in the country as a HS phenom. If you want to drop him from the list, so be it, but that is why I included him.

I don't care who is on a list or not. The point was that a certain group of guys have been dealing with being public figures since age 15. Guys who will find themselves on Deadspin the next day if someone gets a video of them being rude to a fan or drinking beer when underage. Guys who will always be remembered as "busts" by even casual fans and will become cautionary tales if they don't make it big.

Wiggins is arguably in that kind of situation. Parker definitely is not, nor is Randle, nor for that matter is Nerlens Noel.

Wiggins ain't in that class either. There have only been a handful to be under that hype. Beyond Harper, Tiger and LeBron, who else even fits in that group?

ETA: You can add Adu to that as well.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

 

[TobiasFunke]

I could probably say the same about Wiggins and people recognizing him. So I'm not sure why that matters. But Parker was on the cover of SI with the title "The best high school basketball players since Lebron."

ETA: And I've seen Parker mentioned in here multiple times along with Wiggins as the teams with the top two picks taking them.

Well then eliminate Wiggins from the conversation too I guess. Although I bet 90% of the people in here know who Wiggins is, and like I said I doubt half of them know Parker. There's guys as good as Parker or better in basically every recruiting class. He's like the opposite of what we're talking about here.

The point is that it's laughable to include him in a conversation alongside guys like LeBron, Harper, Tiger and Adu. And I know why you did it, which also makes me chuckle. Thus the

My bad, I must have mentioned where guys in every recruiting class are on the cover of SI comparing them to LeBron. I used SI covers as a point of reference for hype hence why I included Telfair as well.

I doubt its 90% to 50% who know Wiggins and not Parker. But I included Parker b/c he was on the cover of the biggest sports magazine in the country as a HS phenom. If you want to drop him from the list, so be it, but that is why I included him.

I don't care who is on a list or not. The point was that a certain group of guys have been dealing with being public figures since age 15. Guys who will find themselves on Deadspin the next day if someone gets a video of them being rude to a fan or drinking beer when underage. Guys who will always be remembered as "busts" by even casual fans and will become cautionary tales if they don't make it big.

Wiggins is arguably in that kind of situation. Parker definitely is not, nor is Randle, nor for that matter is Nerlens Noel.

Yeah, but you think Jacque Vaughn was a combo guard at Kansas.

I should put that in my sig.

 

[SWC]

brohans i recall that when mike jordan came in to the legaue he was a high flyer get to the rim jump over everyone and dunk dunk dunk and the jumper was suspect but then he developed that shot and by the time he was winning and sinning and retirin and then winning again he had that nasty back to the basket fade away jump shot down to perfection in a lot of ways that defined his scoring in the later years and was every bit as undefendable as the sky hook from old louie alcinder and i am starting to feel like the big lebronski is starting to develop that type of a shooting touch and if he could get a fade away down holy jamoly what would you even do so that is my thoughts about things take that to the bank brohans

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

People angered over the decision are just disingenuous windbags looking for something to complain about. Instead of just letting ESPN and media outlets use him for advertising money, he turned his free agency into a commodity and in turn donated the revenue to a great cause. Anybody who thought he was staying in Cleveland wasn't paying attention.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Americans seem to like flaws and they love to see people fall.

And we also love redemption. When you think about where his public image was following The Decision, and then where his on the court image was following the Finals against Dallas, it is an amazing two-year turnaround.

 

[drummer]

I can see Lebron winning more championships...........in another jersey.

 

[Abraham]

Statistically, webber is 2 points, 2 boards, and 2 assists per 36 better than bosh. That is certainly superior in that regard. However, webber may sniff the hall and if he doesn't, it will likely be because of his lack of playoff success - which bosh has.

 

[SWC]

webber was a good player but i never thought of him as a winner and the truth is that i still do not feel that way about the old german sparkplug bosh as well they both just sort of hit me as guys that win because of other guys around them not because they are the superstars but do not get me wrong both are or were really good and man i can hardly even touch the net so take that to the bank brohans

 

[SWC]

shackatack was a game changer instantly and he was every time he stepped on the court through his prime and even by the time his shell went down to miami i do not think he was overhyped because he was the best center and probably always will be too bad he could not hit a free throw to save his life tho take that to the bank brohans

 

[Kev4029]

Statistically, webber is 2 points, 2 boards, and 2 assists per 36 better than bosh. That is certainly superior in that regard. However, webber may sniff the hall and if he doesn't, it will likely be because of his lack of playoff success - which bosh has.

He also has a career TS% of .513 which is awful, worse than Allen Iverson awful.

 

[drummer]

Shaq is an interesting hype case. While he wasn't world famous as a teenager like some of the other names we've bandied about, he came into the pros without ever playing the NCAA regional semifinals, even with another lottery pick at PG and a another future NBA player up front. How many rap albums, movies, video games, and commercials was that guy in before doing anything historically significant on the court?

That's cultural bias.

 

[thecatch]

Statistically, webber is 2 points, 2 boards, and 2 assists per 36 better than bosh. That is certainly superior in that regard. However, webber may sniff the hall and if he doesn't, it will likely be because of his lack of playoff success - which bosh has.

How many playoff series has bosh won as the best player on his team? Second best? Like I said, Lebron is helping carry bosh into the Hall.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Shaq is an interesting hype case. While he wasn't world famous as a teenager like some of the other names we've bandied about, he came into the pros without ever playing the NCAA regional semifinals, even with another lottery pick at PG and a another future NBA player up front. How many rap albums, movies, video games, and commercials was that guy in before doing anything historically significant on the court?

Where would you put Shaq in the all time physical gifts category? 2nd to LeBron? That's where I'd probably rank him.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I've never understood the hate for Lebron. I can understand if you are in Cleveland but even then I don't understand the level of hate with them.

He isn't a doosh or ball hog like Kobe or Iverson.

the decision may have been the most monumental pr blunder in sports. I can't think of one close although I admittedly haven't given it much thought. It angered everyone outside of Miami because even non Cleveland fans saw him as kicking them in the crotch on the way out the door. It could not have been worse.

People angered over the decision are just disingenuous windbags looking for something to complain about. Instead of just letting ESPN and media outlets use him for advertising money, he turned his free agency into a commodity and in turn donated the revenue to a great cause. Anybody who thought he was staying in Cleveland wasn't paying attention.

LeBron also misread the public on that debacle. He genuinely thought I'm the era of reality TV that the public would find it interesting and endearing if he pulled back the curtain as much as he could on the FA process. It came of as self-indulgent. And his shirt selection for The Decision was brutal, too: he looked like some sewed sleeves and buttons on a Bob Evans tablecloth.He didn't think the pep rally would be viewed as anything more than a local pep rally just like he ones he attended in high school.

He also thought the casual fan would find it compelling to see three stars in their prime team up to make history. It turned them all heel. LeBron amazingly pulled off a face turn a year later, Wade descended further into darkness, and Bosh became the bodyguard who stands behind the heel tag team and doesn't factor in the result.

Basically if the Heat were the nWo, Wade would be Kevin Nash, LeBron would be Hogan, Pat Riley would be Bischoff, and Vosh would be Scott Norton.

Back-to-back titles for a RE-HEAT is. Just. Too. SWEEEEEEEEEEET