What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)

Wiggins hasn't signed because once Cleveland signs him they can't trade him for 30 days.
Makes sense. Couldn't they make the agreement and finalize it later just like all the FA agreements between the 1st and 10h?
I think this is kind of backwards. Rookies can be traded anytime within the first 30 days of them signing. It is after that 30 days that they have to wait until December or something. This is the reason you see some teams hold off on signing rookies right away. To increase the timeframe in which they can be traded.

 
Wiggins hasn't signed because once Cleveland signs him they can't trade him for 30 days.
Makes sense. Couldn't they make the agreement and finalize it later just like all the FA agreements between the 1st and 10h?
I think this is kind of backwards. Rookies can be traded anytime within the first 30 days of them signing. It is after that 30 days that they have to wait until December or something. This is the reason you see some teams hold off on signing rookies right away. To increase the timeframe in which they can be traded.
I don't really know. I heard something on the radio. The basic idea is they haven't signed him because they may be trading him.

 
Have most teams signed their rookies yet? One reason teams wait is a first round pick's cap hold is 100% of rookie scale before they are signed but once they are signed they count against the cap at actual salary (almost always 120%). Thus, signing your 1st round picks can reduce the amount of money available for free agents.

 
Have most teams signed their rookies yet? One reason teams wait is a first round pick's cap hold is 100% of rookie scale before they are signed but once they are signed they count against the cap at actual salary (almost always 120%). Thus, signing your 1st round picks can reduce the amount of money available for free agents.
Ding ding ding. Nothing to do with trade.

Also He and Bennett not playing tonight. It was pre-planned, but don't let that kill your trade boner Frosty.

 
Have most teams signed their rookies yet? One reason teams wait is a first round pick's cap hold is 100% of rookie scale before they are signed but once they are signed they count against the cap at actual salary (almost always 120%). Thus, signing your 1st round picks can reduce the amount of money available for free agents.
Ding ding ding. Nothing to do with trade.

Also He and Bennett not playing tonight. It was pre-planned, but don't let that kill your trade boner Frosty.
I'm cool with pretending it means Wiggins/Bennett are on the way.

 
That's kinda crazy to me, at least for the sure-things. If you're a first rounder, guaranteed to sign, why would you play without a contract? Unless the contract is guaranteed you before you sign it? I know at least some of them have insurance policies, but those are a mere %. Sorry if I sound like Timscooch, I don't intend to. I'm genuinely perplexed by this.

 
Wow, the News Herald is reporting the Cavs will trade Wiggins, plus another player and picks for Love, rumor is James has had some input. I think this deal goes down in 48 hours.
James the GM = trouble for CLE
You mean like when Miami tripped all over themselves to get Napier because Lebron said he liked him?
Like there were far better prospects at that point in the draft.

Come on Captain seriously? Also Miami's owner unwilling to spend? WTF are you talking about. He paid 13MM in tax this past season. Mike Miller barely played for us...barely. It's amazing he played 82 games last season (an exception not a rule to his previous 3 years). He could barely walk in his 3 years here. Miller was basically unavailable his first two years here save for one great game in the Finals. Lebron did not leave because Mike Miller was amnestied. LOL!!!!

This was a calculated business decision for the Brand known as Lebron James. He had only one place to go to. Cleveland. That's it. Yeah it came about 2 years earlier than most of us thought down here...but we knew he was going back at some point. I sure as hell enjoyed the ride. Lebron is the freaking King...no doubt.

Enjoy Mike "oh my aching back" Miller this upcoming season. I like him as player when he can actually play...but he has not really done anything 3 out of the last 4 years. Come on. I would not be surprised to see him limp through this season. If he stays healthy? Great for the Cav's as he is a valuable asset when healthy to give some nice shooting and rebounding but let;s not procalim this as some amazing signing. He has red flags all over him.

In his 3 year tenure with the Heat (regular season) he played in:

2010/11 - 41 games 5.6 PPG 4.5 RPG

2011/12 - 39 games 6.1 PPG 3.3 RPG

2012/13 - 59 games 4.8 PPG 2.7 RPG

In the post season:

10/11 12 Mins per game 2.6 PPG 2.7 RPG total 18 games played

11/12 16 Mins per game 5.2 PPG 2.5 RPG total 23 games played

12/13 13 MINS per game 3.4 PPG 1.9 RPG total 17 games played

His one shining moment as a member of the Heat was his one incredible game 5 vs the Thunder (who we were beating regardless) where he went 7/8 on three pointers for 23 points. That is it. Is he a nice bench player to have? Yeah when he can actually walk. Which for the Heat was almost never. Pay him 17MM to stay here? How can you blame them for letting him go? That would have been wasted money. They took a shot on Oden, Beasley and Lewis. Only one of those three worked out. We do not beat the Spurs if Mike Miller stays and James Jones plays more. This is all such ridiculous talk and people reaching for answers. The answer is James wanted to go home now instead of 1-2 years from now because it made sense for him 9both team wise, cap wise perfect storm in a way), his family and what he will perceive as his legacy and maybe winning one for Cleveland. Multiple titles for Cleveland? Doubtful. If Miami wins a third straight? he would have signed for two years with a player option in the second year. Anything short of a title...it was pretty obvious now he was a goner. As a die hard Heat fan I totally misjudged what was most important to James.

James Jones? He could barely sniff the court down here. You will soon find out why. He can't play a lick of defense...not a single lick. Great 3 point shooter...nothing else at all though to see other than that. So he should give the Cav's 10-12 minutes. And you hope he is knocking his shot down because on the other end he is a turnstile. I love James as he is a 305 guy. But he is a huge liability for prolonged spurts. If you end up getting Ray Ray...oh how everyone was lambasting the Heat saying how can you depends on a 38 year old. Well he is 39 now. Again...it looks like the Heat 2.0 minus two critical parts. Bosh and Wade.

Arison and Riley provided everything James needed to win here (most improtantly Wade and Bosh people are minimizing them so badly right now it is laughable). And he won 2 titles. Something he could not do in Cleveland despite having the entire run of the asylum.

Oh and BTW. Lebron played less minutes in his last year with the Heat then any previous year with the Heat. Funny how some talk about heavy lifting etc etc. He played less total minutes in year 4 than any other year. I also find it incredible people talk about too much heavy lifting, blah blah. When your the best player in the world your going to do the heavy lifting. When your clearly the best player on the team your going to do the heavy lifting. The difference between his heavy lifting in Cleveland and Miami was 4 straight Finals and two rings. Go ask Magic, Michael, Larry, Malone, Charles about heavy lifting. When your the best that is what you do if you want to win.

Mike Miller and James Jones are table scraps. Not the real reason the Heat won. The main reasons are simple. Lebron, Wade and Bosh. So unless L Kyrie, Waiters and Wiggins can collectively rise to the level of play of Bosh and Wade...it remains to be seen if Cleveland will win it all. getting there..yeah no question they should be able to make a run at it in the weak East like The heat was able to last year. But beat the powers of the West? Who knows.

If Ray Allen joins up...it remains to be seen if he will have anything left to. He is turning 39 this year and clearly ran out of gas as well in the Finals. But ray Allen is in awesome shape and still has a great 3 point game. i love that guy. Enjoyed his two years down here. He is a class act. And he hit probably one of the biggest (if not biggest) shot in Heat history! That was just sick.

Lebron will find out what heavy lifting really is again this upcoming season (especially on defense). I really hope for Cleveland's sake they do land Love. Because as built right now? If your expecting a title....ain't gonna happen this year...and probably next. Will they be greatly improved? Oh yeah no doubt of course they will they have Lebron. Do they have some young guys that can develop into bonafide NBA prime time players...yeah no doubt. But will they develop? Unknown. Will Kyrie take his game to elite levels? Questionable as he has averaged 60 games played over his first 3 seasons and he is young and already showing he is injury prone. Will Wiggins develop? Probably but he is 19. Lebron has a 5 year window here. Let's be real. His game is also physical and he takes a pounding much like Wade has over the last 11 plus years. They need Love to win now. If they land Love then no question they can have a real shot at a title over the next few years coupled with Kyrie's and Waiters continued development. I am just not so sure about the rest of the squad. Love and Lebron are a tantalizing big 2 and again if Kyrie takes it to the next level...you have a great shot at special things.

They look a lot like The Heat (if they land Love). 3 big time players and a lot of questions about the role players. It is of my opinion though Lebron will never have a big 2 of Wade and Bosh in Kyrie and Love. I understand Love is a scoring machine, but defense? Playing under extreme pressure? Yet to be proven. Kyrie? Finish a season first. Gifted scorer indeed though. And he should greatly benefit from Lebron. But again...defense? Got to have championship defense to go all the way. The biggest thing about the Heat's two straight titles was the insane high energy defense creating the majestic breakaway/easy baskets between Lebron and Wade. It was legendary. Will Love and Kyrie provide that defensive energy that Wade and Bosh did? You have to question that. If you think they will just outscore your wrong. Elite teams that win titles win by playing elite defense.

DEFENSE wins titles. So where is the defense guys? Kyrie? Bennet? Thompson? I know Wiggins has huge defensive potential at the next level...but he is 19 and has to learn the NBA way. Far different than college. Usually takes a few years to develop physically and mentally to play top elite level defense in The Association.

So if the Cav's don't get Love...you really see a title in Cleveland over the next 2 years? Beyond that I can't say...no one can say. No one knows for certain how the young guys develop. It can go in the right direction and then they rule the NBA or the other way and never fulfill the potential.

I can't wait for the season to start again. I really can't. A whole new dynamic with Lebron in Cleveland. The entire East just opened up where as the last 4 years was all about who can topple Miami. Cleveland has to prove this year they can be in that discussion of "who will topple Cleveland". As a Heat fan I am actually really excited to see how Bosh and Wade respond and knowing them...they will play with a huge chip on their shoulders.

Right now for Cleveland (and yes now Miami) it's all on paper. New lineups, new dynamic. It will be fun for sure. The East is wide open indeed.
tl;dr

 
That's kinda crazy to me, at least for the sure-things. If you're a first rounder, guaranteed to sign, why would you play without a contract? Unless the contract is guaranteed you before you sign it? I know at least some of them have insurance policies, but those are a mere %. Sorry if I sound like Timscooch, I don't intend to. I'm genuinely perplexed by this.
My understanding is if a first round pick plays in summer league, there is at least an informal agreement that their contract will be offered even if they get hurt.

 
That's kinda crazy to me, at least for the sure-things. If you're a first rounder, guaranteed to sign, why would you play without a contract? Unless the contract is guaranteed you before you sign it? I know at least some of them have insurance policies, but those are a mere %. Sorry if I sound like Timscooch, I don't intend to. I'm genuinely perplexed by this.
My understanding is if a first round pick plays in summer league, there is at least an informal agreement that their contract will be offered even if they get hurt.
Typically first round picks take out an insurance policy to protect themselves while playing in summer league unsigned.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would think the league guarantees their slot. That would be a PR nightmare for some kid to blow out a knee in an NBA sanctioned league and some bum #### organization like the Knicks then pulls their money back.

 
Speaking of Summer League, man, the NBA is really getting this off-season #### right.

Lottery, Finals, Draft, Free-Agency, Summer League with Vegas being the center of the latter two. Boom, boom, boom. They've staked out full ownership of the time from the NFL Draft to the NFL Training Camps (well, except for the some little thing called a World Cup every once in a while).

For me, the NBA offseason is a fair amount more interesting than the king of offseasons (NFL).

Also, I'm fairly convinced that Wiggins would be in his Timberwolves jersey by now (without protest from Cavs fans) if not for Summer League.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Speaking of Summer League, man, the NBA is really getting this off-season #### right.Lottery, Finals, Draft, Free-Agency, Summer League with Vegas being the center of the latter two. Boom, boom, boom. They've staked out full ownership of the time from the NFL Draft to the NFL Training Camps (well, except for the some little thing called a World Cup every once in a while).For me, the NBA offseason is a fair amount more interesting than the king of offseasons (NFL).Also, I'm fairly convinced that Wiggins would be in his Timberwolves jersey by now (without protest from Cavs fans) if not for Summer League.
Yeah, NBA offseason is decent for about 2 weeks. There's basically that and the playoffs, the rest is like baseball is all year round.

 
Be sure to check out "3-Time NBA.com Rookie of the Day" P.J. Hairston lead the Cinderella Charlotte Hornets into an Elite 8 match-up with the Knicks at 4.

 
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
I'm new to this delusional behavior but slim to none. Of course people reporting Bennett, Wiggins, and a 1st is on the table are wrong. So if you are grading by that, sure.

 
mr fancypants said:
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
I'm new to this delusional behavior but slim to none.Of course people reporting Bennett, Wiggins, and a 1st is on the table are wrong. So if you are grading by that, sure.
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
I'm new to this delusional behavior but slim to none.Of course people reporting Bennett, Wiggins, and a 1st is on the table are wrong. So if you are grading by that, sure.
Maybe delusional behavior to you, but prior working relationships exist in all forms of business. To think otherwise is actually pretty delusional thinking.
I have arrived, Minnesota.
 
I would think the league guarantees their slot. That would be a PR nightmare for some kid to blow out a knee in an NBA sanctioned league and some bum #### organization like the Knicks then pulls their money back.
Sounds like something that skinflint Arison would do.
Pretty sure first round picks have guaranteed deals. That's why you see some teams try to trade out of the end of the first round - they don't want to pay that player and give him a roster spot.

The contracts have some flexibility to them, so they aren't automatically done. Also, timing the signing impacts cap figures. For example, Wiggins counts as $0 against the Cavs cap right now, so they have more space to try to sign Ray Allen. Teams can always go over the cap to sign their rookies, so teams up against the cap but still pursuing players will wait as long as possible to complete the rookie contracts.

 
mr fancypants said:
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
I don't think it matters what Griffin/Kerr do, it all comes down to what KING JAMES wants, I betting he wants to play with LOVE more then Wiggins and Bennett. I think deal is close just getting the cap/money numbers to work

 
mr fancypants said:
An Interesting tidbit in regards to the K. Love negations.

David Griffin (Cav's GM) was previously an assistant GM in Phoenix reporting to guess who Steve Kerr. Who's to say that with a simple phone call they can stymie Flip's attempt to leverage one against the other. What's are the odds of Flip ending up with far less than he envisioned?

.

David Griffin, the GM of the Cavs, was previously the assistant GM in Phoenix, reporting to, guess who, none other than Steve Kerr. They can easily stymie Minnesota's lame attempts to leverage one against the other with one phone call.
I don't think it matters what Griffin/Kerr do, it all comes down to what KING JAMES wants, I betting he wants to play with LOVE more then Wiggins and Bennett. I think deal is close just getting the cap/money numbers to work
In a way, LBJ reaching out to Love has hurt the team in trade discussions. Now Flip can ask for the moon even if GSW never offers Klay because Flip knows the Cavs are feeling pressure from James.

 
I haven't looked at the time line but would it be fair to say David blatt took the job thinking he was going to coach Irving and embid and now will be possibly coaching Lebron, love, and Irving? Quite a turn of events. "Remember when we told you we were hiring you to be our regional sales manager? Just kidding , you're the new CEO of Microsoft!"

 
I haven't looked at the time line but would it be fair to say David blatt took the job thinking he was going to coach Irving and embid and now will be possibly coaching Lebron, love, and Irving? Quite a turn of events. "Remember when we told you we were hiring you to be our regional sales manager? Just kidding , you're the new CEO of Microsoft!"
Double-edged sword. There's a lot more pressure on him now. Also if James doesn't take a liking to him, he'll get replaced by Lue in no time.

 
Even better. :lmao:

"We would like you to come coach Kyrie Irving, some underachieving lottery picks, and whoever we take 13th this year. What do you think?"

 
If I were Love, I'd be a little concerned about hitching my wagon to Cleveland knowing that Lebron likes to jump ship fast if things don't go his way.

 
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.
Yah it looks like we'll find out if LBJ is as good of a GM as he is a basketball player. Not a good sign for the CAVS IMO.

 
I have literally not seen a single person speculate that Lebron might be a Clipper in a couple years. And that was still the most coherent part of your post.

 
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.
Yes, their is a rush, Lebron is the King, and yes the cavs listen when he speaks

 
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.
Yah it looks like we'll find out if LBJ is as good of a GM as he is a basketball player. Not a good sign for the CAVS IMO.
Maybe James can man up and prove he is the best player and win with a team with a bunch of number one picks on the roster.
 
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.
Yah it looks like we'll find out if LBJ is as good of a GM as he is a basketball player. Not a good sign for the CAVS IMO.
I can't imagine a worse situation for the Cavs than Lebron playing GM and forcing management's hand to acquire a top 5/10 player, of course other than not having Lebron on the team at all. That would probably be worse.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have literally not seen a single person speculate that Lebron might be a Clipper in a couple years. And that was still the most coherent part of your post.
You guys haven't seen the speculation that Lebron will sign with the Clippers to play with Chris Paul once the Sterling situation sorts itself out? And you claim to actually pay attention to this stuff?

 
If Love is a top 5-10 player what's Clevelands hold up with including Wiggins, other then trying to get over on Minnesota.
I honestly think the sides are far apart. As crazy as it may seem, the Cavs are in more of a hurry. The Wolves should still be able to ship Love out for decent value up until the deadline. (Though there is risk with this strategy)No harm in seeing if you can get a little something more out of Cleveland or GS or somebody else.

 
Think about this - these players are usually looking to sign long term deals. Especially guys that aren't guaranteed max guys, who can command these "player option" type contracts. They don't know when they might get some gigantic injury or whatever. The allure of playing with James for less money, or in pursuit of a title, wears off a little when you know that he might be a Clipper in 2 years like some speculate. So Love is probably going to want some sort of player option type contract himself.

And why give up a guy you have locked down pretty well for a while in Wiggins to structure this in a way the team might blow up in a Heat type fashion (or even worse - like if Bosh decided to go to Houston) in just a couple of years? It seems ridiculous to let a player dictate the future of your franchise. Even if he is Lebron James. If he means a word he's printed in his letter, there's no rush to make this trade just to make Lebron happy.
Yah it looks like we'll find out if LBJ is as good of a GM as he is a basketball player. Not a good sign for the CAVS IMO.
I can't imagine a worse situation for the Cavs than Lebron playing GM and forcing management's hand to acquire a top 5/10 player, of course other than not having Lebron on the team at all. That would probably be worse.
He wants to win one for the home team!!!! And he realizes that might take some time. At least that's what his letter said.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top