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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

So 45 wins in the west will do it right? Teams are more evenly dispersed this year, right? RIGHT?

 
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The Celtics really should have taken a chance on Warren Coolidge. Bird and Archibald would have found him for easy looks under the basket.

 
Moe. said:
So 45 wins in the west will do it right? Teams are more evenly dispersed this year, right? RIGHT?
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I certainly don't think it'll take 50 this year. :shrug:

I still think four of the teams that are currently out of playoff position (a laughable concept this early, I know) are "any given night" type teams. Especially once OKC is healthy again. And I believe the mid-level strength in the East is a little better than recently, too.

 
Ben McLemore has really been coming on. I may have been too quick to write him off. He still can't handle the ball at all but he looks like a solid 3 & D guy in the making.

 
I'm kind of sad I missed this performance:

5:11 77-78 Kobe Bryant misses 14-foot jumper

4:52 77-78 Kobe Bryant misses layup

2:39 82-85 Kobe Bryant misses 10-foot jumper

1:59 82-85 Kobe Bryant misses 14-foot two point shot

1:13 85-86 Kobe Bryant misses layup

0:32 85-86 Kobe Bryant misses 8-foot

0:00 86-86 Kobe Bryant misses 19-foot jumper

 
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Mario Chalmers really stepping up in Wade's absence. Heat pulling out some games in spite of some early season injury woes.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
I'm kind of sad I missed this performance:

5:11 77-78 Kobe Bryant misses 14-foot jumper

4:52 77-78 Kobe Bryant misses layup

2:39 82-85 Kobe Bryant misses 10-foot jumper

1:59 82-85 Kobe Bryant misses 14-foot two point shot

1:13 85-86 Kobe Bryant misses layup

0:32 85-86 Kobe Bryant misses 8-foot

0:00 86-86 Kobe Bryant misses 19-foot jumper
Click to expand...
I'm kind of sad that I saw it. Swaggy P shot even worse last night.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Can someone with Insider PM me the Doolittle article on the Raptors?
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Last week, Kevin Pelton looked at early front-runners in the West through the prism of point differential. Today we're going to do the same thing for the East, where the top of the standings look nothing like what we thought they would. OK, that's not exactly true. We thought there would be a runaway juggernaut in the East, and there is. We were just wrong about the team.

To reiterate what Pelton wrote: At this early juncture of the season, a team's point differential, when evaluated in the context of schedule factors, is a better indicator than won-loss record of what a team will do going forward. Wins and losses generate the buzz. Margin of victory generates the wisdom.


The teams I obliquely referred to in the first paragraph hooked up in a fairly remarkable game Saturday. The Toronto Raptors, the surprise early leader in the East, visited the Cleveland Cavaliers, who we pegged as heavy favorites in the conference just before the season. If you've been fixating on the trials and tribulations of LeBron & Co., you might have missed the great storm blowing north of the border. The Raptors are emerging as the lion of the East, with everyone else settling as kittens.

Strength of schedule?The Raptors' plus-12.2 point differential is the best in the NBA. At 11-2, Toronto is on pace to win 69 games. The projected win total based on point differential is also 69. Nevertheless, while the Raptors' point differential is more than strong enough to support its East-leading record, it's not for real. It can't be, and it's not going out on a limb to state that. Even the most pie-eyed Raptors fan understands his team isn't going to win 69 games. Our fall forecast for 47 wins looks lean at this point, but even if we redid it this morning based on the results to date, Toronto's win projection probably wouldn't climb too far into the 50s.

Toronto's schedule has in part paved the way for the blazing start. The Raptors capped a seven-game homestand by rolling to a 52-point lead in point differential during a rout of Milwaukee on Friday. They've played nine of their first 13 at the Air Canada Centre, winning eight. Among those home wins, Toronto can count the Thunder, 76ers, Magic, Jazz and Bucks among its victims. Overall, based on the quality of the offenses and defenses the Raptors have faced, only the Knicks have enjoyed an easier schedule in the NBA. (Yes, New York fans, you read that right.)

All that being true, you simply can't dismiss the Raptors' performance because the sheer degree of their dominance won't let you. Consider this: In Basketball-Reference.com's schedule-adjusted standings, Toronto's margin of victory (MOV) is scaled back to plus-10.4. Which of course is still awesome. So awesome, in fact, that the Raptors' adjusted MOV is nine points better than second-place Washington in the East. Lions and kittens, people.

How real are the Raptors?Watching Toronto go on a 24-2 second-half run in its win at Cleveland on Saturday was pretty convincing. The addition of explosive bench scorer Lou Williams has shored up a key roster shortcoming and helped give the Raptors a top-10 bench. On the downside, every rotation player on the roster has a winning percentage significantly exceeding his preseason projection, with two exceptions: Greivis Vasquez and Tyler Hansbrough. Some of the overachievers -- such as Jonas Valanciunas, Patrick Patterson and Terrence Ross -- are young players who might simply be getting better faster than we thought. But as a roster, Toronto is due to regress as the schedule toughens.

And then there's this cautionary tale: Last season's Indiana Pacers. The moral of that story is that championships are not won in November. Nevertheless, the chasm between Toronto and everyone else in the Eastern Conference can't be ignored.

As for the kittens, the differentials, adjusted and otherwise, tell a yawn-inducing story of utter mediocrity. Washington's plus-3.4 margin of victory translates to about 48 wins over a full season. After accounting for the Wizards' 25th-ranked schedule, that MOV gets knocked down to plus-1.4. And that's the second-best mark in the East. The Cavaliers have faced the league's sixth-toughest schedule, and the fifth-most difficult set of opposing offenses. So Cleveland owns the third-ranked adjusted MOV (plus-0.6). I imagine that's small consolation to a team that is reeling at the moment.

In the fourth spot, the injury-riddled Bulls have defensive issues. Not only is Chicago's No. 11 ranking in defensive efficiency mind-boggling for a Tom Thibodeau club, but just nine teams have faced a weaker set of offenses. The good news is that Chicago's 8-5 record has been achieved while playing just five of 13 at home. The disparity will grow this week as the Bulls continue their annual November pilgrimage forced upon them by the literal circus that invades the United Center. In December, Bulls fans can look forward to the home-road balance working itself out, and they also hope the roster will be healthier by that time.

The only East team other than Toronto, Washington and Chicago with a positive average point differential is Miami, and the Heat drop below break-even when the schedule is accounted for. In fact, of the remaining teams, all but Charlotte and Philadelphia have a worse MOV once the schedule is factored in, and the respective adjusted differentials of those teams remains in the red. It's an ugly portrait. Atlanta has the No. 10 offense, but it's achieved that rating against the worst set of defenses any team has played. The Bucks' terrific start on defense has come at the expense of the worst collective set of offenses. You could go on and on.

News and notes
• There were so many factoids left over from the bench rating system I set up in the previously linked piece that I can, and likely will, drop these tidbits on you for the rest of the season. For example, last season's Spurs owned the best single-season team bench WARP of the 10-year period of the study, at plus-17.2. The top three seasons are all owned by the Spurs (and five of the top 12). This season, however, San Antonio's bench winning percentage (the per-possession counterpart to WARP) is .426, well below any of the nine previous seasons.

Also, I wrote about Portland's bench improving to mediocrity in the early going this year. Mediocre is indeed an improvement: The Trail Blazers' minus-8.4 bench WARP in 2012-13 was the worst in the database by nearly two wins.

• OK, here's more bench trivia. Among active players who have played at least 2,000 minutes as both a starter and a reserve over the last 10 years, two players are neck and neck for the biggest boost in winning percentage as a bench player: Thaddeus Young (8.4 percent boost) and O.J. Mayo (8.3). At the other end of the spectrum, J.J. Hickson loses 13.6 percent and Kyle Lowry loses 11.4 percent. Fortunately for Lowry, it's unlikely he's going to be coming off the bench anytime soon.

• Houston's 95-92 win over Dallas on Saturday was one of the wildest sub-100-point games you'll ever see. Houston took 3-point shots on 46 of its 82 field goal attempts. According to the official box score, the Rockets also took 29 shots in the paint, leaving just seven attempts from midrange. That's extremely even for the Rockets. According to Basketball-Reference.com, since 1985-86, only the Knicks have tried more 3s while scoring under 100, taking 47 on Dec. 17, 2009, in a 98-89 loss to the Bulls. Meanwhile, Dallas launched 35 of its 88 shots from behind the arc Saturday. Where have you gone, Alex English?
 
the strength of schedule rankings are interesting. Raptors at 29 explains some of their success, but then again, it's not like they are going to get kicked out of the eastern conference.

Kings are 8-5 against the second toughest schedule in the league, with their next 5 games against the Pelicans, Rockets, Spurs, Grizzlies, and Raptors. Just a brutal early season slate.

For all the Lakers schadenfreude we are all enjoying, they have had the toughest schedule in the league so far.

 
Westbrook may be back as soon as Friday. Durant is practicing. Our long national nightmare is almost over. I knew we could do it. I'm really proud of you guys.

 
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Cliff Clavin said:
Suns/Raptors game has been highly entertaining so far.
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Huge win. I'm starting to believe in this team now. 12-2 with some really gritty wins against Memphis and Phoenix, as well as a fairly convincing one against the Cavs. Demar has been struggling too, which gives me some hope that they can keep this pace up even tho Lowry is playing lights out. Valanciunas, Ross, and Vasquez can still play better as well, imo.

 
hxperson said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Suns/Raptors game has been highly entertaining so far.
Click to expand...
Huge win. I'm starting to believe in this team now. 12-2 with some really gritty wins against Memphis and Phoenix, as well as a fairly convincing one against the Cavs. Demar has been struggling too, which gives me some hope that they can keep this pace up even tho Lowry is playing lights out. Valanciunas, Ross, and Vasquez can still play better as well, imo.
Click to expand...
Wow. What a barrage of 3's the Suns hit to start the 4th. Ridiculous. Thought the Raps were on their way to another easy blowout after controlling the game from mid 1st Q till the start of the 4th.

How about the lineup of Lowry, Williams, Derozan, Ross and Johnson. Christ. Ross is playing out of position at the 3, let alone the 4. JV was an absolute monster yet was glued to the bench for the 4th... don't understand that. No one on Phoenix could stop him.

By far the most entertaining game of the year; can't wait for the rematch.

On a side note, a buddy just offered me free airfare and a hotel in Toronto later this year for a game :excited:

 
Cliff Clavin said:
hxperson said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Suns/Raptors game has been highly entertaining so far.
Click to expand...
Huge win. I'm starting to believe in this team now. 12-2 with some really gritty wins against Memphis and Phoenix, as well as a fairly convincing one against the Cavs. Demar has been struggling too, which gives me some hope that they can keep this pace up even tho Lowry is playing lights out. Valanciunas, Ross, and Vasquez can still play better as well, imo.
Click to expand...
Wow. What a barrage of 3's the Suns hit to start the 4th. Ridiculous. Thought the Raps were on their way to another easy blowout after controlling the game from mid 1st Q till the start of the 4th.

How about the lineup of Lowry, Williams, Derozan, Ross and Johnson. Christ. Ross is playing out of position at the 3, let alone the 4. JV was an absolute monster yet was glued to the bench for the 4th... don't understand that. No one on Phoenix could stop him.

By far the most entertaining game of the year; can't wait for the rematch.

On a side note, a buddy just offered me free airfare and a hotel in Toronto later this year for a game :excited:
Click to expand...
Isaiah Thomas was nuts, freakin hit a three after pumping under a guy and leaning towards the bucket. Showed something holding onto the W though, even going down a point in the 4th. I thought the game was in hand too but you never know. JV was really active around the basket so that was good. Side note but PJ Tucker has to have one of the ugliest shots it looked so strange like the right foot way in front of the other; and Im happy for Gerald Green for turning his career around but Ill be damned if he didn't have a whiney annoying face on most of the game lol.

Anyways 13 of the next 20 on the road, should be a good test and hopefully they can pickup more quality wins. Confidence is definitely growing and growing though.

 
mlbnfl said:
Cliff Clavin said:
hxperson said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Suns/Raptors game has been highly entertaining so far.
Click to expand...
Huge win. I'm starting to believe in this team now. 12-2 with some really gritty wins against Memphis and Phoenix, as well as a fairly convincing one against the Cavs. Demar has been struggling too, which gives me some hope that they can keep this pace up even tho Lowry is playing lights out. Valanciunas, Ross, and Vasquez can still play better as well, imo.
Click to expand...
Wow. What a barrage of 3's the Suns hit to start the 4th. Ridiculous. Thought the Raps were on their way to another easy blowout after controlling the game from mid 1st Q till the start of the 4th.

How about the lineup of Lowry, Williams, Derozan, Ross and Johnson. Christ. Ross is playing out of position at the 3, let alone the 4. JV was an absolute monster yet was glued to the bench for the 4th... don't understand that. No one on Phoenix could stop him.

By far the most entertaining game of the year; can't wait for the rematch.

On a side note, a buddy just offered me free airfare and a hotel in Toronto later this year for a game :excited:
Click to expand...
Isaiah Thomas was nuts, freakin hit a three after pumping under a guy and leaning towards the bucket. Showed something holding onto the W though, even going down a point in the 4th. I thought the game was in hand too but you never know. JV was really active around the basket so that was good. Side note but PJ Tucker has to have one of the ugliest shots it looked so strange like the right foot way in front of the other; and Im happy for Gerald Green for turning his career around but Ill be damned if he didn't have a whiney annoying face on most of the game lol.

Anyways 13 of the next 20 on the road, should be a good test and hopefully they can pickup more quality wins. Confidence is definitely growing and growing though.
Click to expand...
He's got the most punchable face in the NBA, imo

 
hxperson said:
He's got the most punchable face in the NBA, imo
Click to expand...
for my money, that honor goes to Kobe especially for statements like this:

"It's the popular thing to do," Bryant said after the Los Angeles Lakers' shootaround prior to Friday night's 140-106 loss to Nowitzki's Dallas Mavericks. "The player takes less, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think it's a big coup for the owners to put players in situations where public perception puts pressure on them to take less money. Because if you don't, then you get criticized for it.

"It's absolutely brilliant, but I'm not going for it. I know the new head of the players' association ain't going for it, either."
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i know kobe is in a bad way of late - injuries, losing on a near biblical scale, your game deteriorating before your eyes - but i find this incredibly disrespectful to guys like dirk and timmy. it's just another bitter comment from one of the association's most sour personalities. i know he is motivated in a different way from other players. it's what made kobe into the player he is after all. kobe can't see or understand that other players can be motivated differently, still be successful and not be such a #####. i say this as someone that appreciates difficult personalities and players but he may be in the discussion of GOAT when it all said and done but he's still a PoS.

 
saintfool said:
hxperson said:
He's got the most punchable face in the NBA, imo
Click to expand...
for my money, that honor goes to Kobe especially for statements like this:

"It's the popular thing to do," Bryant said after the Los Angeles Lakers' shootaround prior to Friday night's 140-106 loss to Nowitzki's Dallas Mavericks. "The player takes less, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think it's a big coup for the owners to put players in situations where public perception puts pressure on them to take less money. Because if you don't, then you get criticized for it.

"It's absolutely brilliant, but I'm not going for it. I know the new head of the players' association ain't going for it, either."
Click to expand...
i know kobe is in a bad way of late - injuries, losing on a near biblical scale, your game deteriorating before your eyes - but i find this incredibly disrespectful to guys like dirk and timmy. it's just another bitter comment from one of the association's most sour personalities. i know he is motivated in a different way from other players. it's what made kobe into the player he is after all. kobe can't see or understand that other players can be motivated differently, still be successful and not be such a #####. i say this as someone that appreciates difficult personalities and players but he may be in the discussion of GOAT when it all said and done but he's still a PoS.
Click to expand...
Kobe should never be in the discussion for GOAT, and I don't think he is except for with current gen Laker fans, the hyperbole media, and his fanboys. He was arguably the best player in the league for a few years, and that is all.

As for his statement - I completely agree that it shows what a doosh he is and how delusional he is about his contribution to his 5 championship rings (it was all him).

 
With Tim Duncan, KG, and LBJ in their primes during Kobe's career I find it hard to pick a season where he was no doubt the best player on earth.

 
Abraham said:
No. 16 said:
With Tim Duncan, KG, and LBJ in their primes during Kobe's career I find it hard to pick a season where he was no doubt the best player on earth.
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Nash's second mvp season, iirc, is the one Kobe should have won.
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Going through Kobe's entire career to see if he was every the "best player on the planet" is something I think we've done in this thread. If not, I did it with some friends.

iirc, There's a 1-2 year period where you might be able to say he was better than Duncan and LeBron wasn't better yet. It's arguable. I would disagree, but it's arguable.

There's a fairly strong argument to be made that Kobe has never been the best player on the planet.

 
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hey brohans i just saw an ad with tim dun can where he says i am so excited i just knocked over a plant and then he like sets the plant on its side that is pretty funny so i thought i would put you all on the lookout in the nba thread for it take that to the bank broball fans

 
alrighty brohans last year milwaukee won fifteen games and this year after fifteen games they have won half that many already so i am pretty happy they have two good younger guys with that anteaterkempo guy and parker and they have three guys that could turn out ok with knight and sanders and mayo all three of which sorr of have something to prove after being cast off or getting in bar fights and then guys like zaza and henson round it nice i am happy take that to the bank brohans

 
The splash brothers are fun to watch and I almost prefer watch the Lebron-less Heat. It was tied mid-way through the fourth, but the Warriors went on a 14-0 run.

Are you sitting down? Wade missed the game.

 
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