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NCAA HOOPS THREAD! -- K petitions to get Maui Jim Maui Invitational moved to Transylvania (6 Viewers)

Who is worse?

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KU utilized a 35-2 edge in free throw attempts to beat West Virginia tonight.

Between that win and Baylor beating Texas Tech, KU and TTech are tied at the top of the Big XII at 10-4.  Regular season conference titles don’t mean much in a vaccum, but when you’ve won 13 in a row you want to win 14 and break UCLA’s record.  

Both teams have 2 home and 2 road games left, but the big one is KU’s visit to Lubbock next Saturday.  (Which probably means KU gets caught looking ahead and lays an egg against OU on Monday.)

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
KU utilized a 35-2 edge in free throw attempts to beat West Virginia tonight.

Between that win and Baylor beating Texas Tech, KU and TTech are tied at the top of the Big XII at 10-4.  Regular season conference titles don’t mean much in a vaccum, but when you’ve won 13 in a row you want to win 14 and break UCLA’s record.  

Both teams have 2 home and 2 road games left, but the big one is KU’s visit to Lubbock next Saturday.  (Which probably means KU gets caught looking ahead and lays an egg against OU on Monday.)
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Yeah, right

 
Uruk-Hai said:
How is that even possible between two good teams?
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The foul count was 24-14 against WVU. That’s no shocker when you consider how WVU plays defense. WVU opted to settle for throwing up jumpers while KU got to the glass and inside to Udoka (went 7-10). Also inflated by late Ts on Huggins. The only reason WVU was ahead was due to hitting a crazy percent from behind the arc until they went dry late in the game. 

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
The 35 I can understand the way WVU plays defense. The 2 is confusing.
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And it wasn't like WVU was sending a parade of FT shooters to the line to stop the lock and extend the game.  WVU was up 12 with 10 minutes left and blew the lead.  

WVU shot a bunch of threes, but KU was playing aggressive on the perimeter (9 steals).

Huggins got himself ejected after WVU blew their lead.  Was not kind about how the refs officiated the game.  "“Officials want to be a part of the game, but they don’t want to be part of the game where they have to answer... Why aren’t they in here answering your questions? We’re gonna bring 19-21 year olds in here who don’t get paid and you’re gonna ask them questions… because they don’t want to get asked ‘why didn’t you call this? Why didn’t you call that?'”

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
KU had been uncharacteristically shaky at home this season, but not tonight.  Dang.  Scored the first 10, never got closer than 8 the rest of the way.  

If the Jayhawks bring the same intensity on Saturday, Tech is in big trouble.
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Self's Jayhawks are soft...I expect them to fade in the tourney per their usual.

 
I know it won't actually happen, but it's fun to imagine the college basketball world collectively losing its #### if the projected West Region in Lunardi's current brackets actually happened:

1. Kansas

2. Michigan State

3. UNC

4. Arizona

5. Gonzaga

6. Kentucky

Compare with his projected South Region:

1. Virginia

2. Auburn

3. Texas Tech

4. Wichita State

5. Rhode Island

6. Texas A&M

 
TobiasFunke said:
I know it won't actually happen, but it's fun to imagine the college basketball world collectively losing its #### if the projected West Region in Lunardi's current brackets actually happened:

1. Kansas

2. Michigan State

3. UNC

4. Arizona

5. Gonzaga

6. Kentucky

Compare with his projected South Region:

1. Virginia

2. Auburn

3. Texas Tech

4. Wichita State

5. Rhode Island

6. Texas A&M
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Sub Duke in for UVA and the world would explode

 
Here is a graphical representation of the disappointment and tears to expect on Selection Sunday.  It's basically a comparison of the current kenpom rankings vs. current RPI rankings.  The top 16 preview we got told us that RPI still appears to be the metric with the most weight when tournament seeds are selected.  In a perfect world where RPI and statistics live in harmony, you'd expect the bars on this graph to follow a nice upward curve.  You can see this is not the case.  Teams with unexpected peaks when compared to a normal curve (Gonzaga, Penn St., Florida and ND to a lesser extent) can expect to be disappointed with what they get on SS, and teams with unexpected valleys (Xavier, Rhode Island, Seton Hall, Midd Tennessee) may be surprised with a higher than expected seed.  

In terms of this year's efficiency vs. the previous 10 year average, there's surprisingly nothing particularly odd about this year's current top 50.  

 
My only surprise is at what a massive nothingburger that is.  As Spencer Hall put it, college basketball players are way cheaper than I thought.

Also, Duke and UNC are the first schools specifically named in the writeup, and as far as I can tell their only involvement here is that an agent had lunch with Tony Bradley and Wendell Carter and may or may not have paid for them to dine, and Brendan Haywood (who graduated 17 years ago) got a $350 loan at an unspecified time.  Someone's looking for attention!

 
TobiasFunke said:
My only surprise is at what a massive nothingburger that is.  As Spencer Hall put it, college basketball players are way cheaper than I thought.

Also, Duke and UNC are the first schools specifically named in the writeup, and as far as I can tell their only involvement here is that an agent had lunch with Tony Bradley and Wendell Carter and may or may not have paid for them to dine, and Brendan Haywood (who graduated 17 years ago) got a $350 loan at an unspecified time.  Someone's looking for attention!
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This is just the first report.  I have no doubt once this gets rolling its going to be bad for everyone.

 
TobiasFunke said:
My only surprise is at what a massive nothingburger that is.  As Spencer Hall put it, college basketball players are way cheaper than I thought.

Also, Duke and UNC are the first schools specifically named in the writeup, and as far as I can tell their only involvement here is that an agent had lunch with Tony Bradley and Wendell Carter and may or may not have paid for them to dine, and Brendan Haywood (who graduated 17 years ago) got a $350 loan at an unspecified time.  Someone's looking for attention!
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Agreed. There are a handful of players who got some cash but pretty weak overall if you ask me. So this is what the FBI wastes its time on??!!!

 
pantherclub said:
This is just the first report.  I have no doubt once this gets rolling its going to be bad for everyone.
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It's true that Yahoo hasn't seen everything, according to the article.  But it also says that "Yahoo Sports viewed hundreds of pages of documents from the years-long probe."  If the best they could come up with after reviewing hundreds of pages are these farts in the wind, that says something. There's no crimes alleged by any players or coaches. At most you have individual cases of impermissible benefits that would make single players retroactively ineligible if they took big loans. There's nothing damning on an institutional level. There's nothing they could ding a current player, only three of whom are named as far as I can tell and all for meal money that could simply be repaid per NCAA policy for benefits under $200.

The only thing that takes a real hit is the NCAA's silly amateurism rules. They're now backed into a corner of either wasting countless hours dinging schools for past nickel and dime eligibility violations or admitting what everyone already knows anyway, that the whole thing is a farce.

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's true that Yahoo hasn't seen everything, according to the article.  But it also says that "Yahoo Sports viewed hundreds of pages of documents from the years-long probe."  If the best they could come up with after reviewing hundreds of pages are these farts in the wind, that says something. There's no crimes alleged by any players or coaches. At most you have individual cases of impermissible benefits that would make single players retroactively ineligible if they took big loans. There's nothing damning on an institutional level. There's nothing they could ding a current player, only three of whom are named as far as I can tell and all for meal money that could simply be repaid per NCAA policy for benefits under $200.

The only thing that takes a real hit is the NCAA's silly amateurism rules. They're now backed into a corner of either wasting countless hours dinging schools for past nickel and dime eligibility violations or admitting what everyone already knows anyway, that the whole thing is a farce.
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I have a funny feeling if the FBI has been spending all this time and money on this then the ish is about to get real. 

 
Sounds like some teams are taking this seriously. Duke just announced that Wendell Carter’s mother has been suspended for the remainder of conference games. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
My only surprise is at what a massive nothingburger that is.  As Spencer Hall put it, college basketball players are way cheaper than I thought.

Also, Duke and UNC are the first schools specifically named in the writeup, and as far as I can tell their only involvement here is that an agent had lunch with Tony Bradley and Wendell Carter and may or may not have paid for them to dine, and Brendan Haywood (who graduated 17 years ago) got a $350 loan at an unspecified time.  Someone's looking for attention!
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The payments are only low because the market for the players is still artificially constrained. We'll see six and maybe even seven figure inducements once the stupid handcuffs are off. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's true that Yahoo hasn't seen everything, according to the article.  But it also says that "Yahoo Sports viewed hundreds of pages of documents from the years-long probe."  If the best they could come up with after reviewing hundreds of pages are these farts in the wind, that says something. There's no crimes alleged by any players or coaches. At most you have individual cases of impermissible benefits that would make single players retroactively ineligible if they took big loans. There's nothing damning on an institutional level. There's nothing they could ding a current player, only three of whom are named as far as I can tell and all for meal money that could simply be repaid per NCAA policy for benefits under $200.

The only thing that takes a real hit is the NCAA's silly amateurism rules. They're now backed into a corner of either wasting countless hours dinging schools for past nickel and dime eligibility violations or admitting what everyone already knows anyway, that the whole thing is a farce.
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It's going to be the bolded. Sigh, just dumb. 

 
The schools just need to get out of the "amateurism" business because of its incredibly corrupting nature. I won't even get into the anti-trust arguments. Let the kids make whatever they can make and end the charade.

 
TobiasFunke said:
My only surprise is at what a massive nothingburger that is.  As Spencer Hall put it, college basketball players are way cheaper than I thought.

Also, Duke and UNC are the first schools specifically named in the writeup, and as far as I can tell their only involvement here is that an agent had lunch with Tony Bradley and Wendell Carter and may or may not have paid for them to dine, and Brendan Haywood (who graduated 17 years ago) got a $350 loan at an unspecified time.  Someone's looking for attention!
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GT has to vacate an ACC championship because Demaryius Thomas took a watch and tee shirt from a former teammate.  And teammate was tied to an agent.  Thomas even gave both things back. 

 
This is going to cause big problems for the NCAA tournament this year.  I have a feeling a lot of big name players are going to be suspended for march madness.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
GT has to vacate an ACC championship because Demaryius Thomas took a watch and tee shirt from a former teammate.  And teammate was tied to an agent.  Thomas even gave both things back. 
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I had to google an article because I had no idea, which says something about how much retroactively taking away wins and titles matters.  The article suggests the real problem was that the AD told the coach the players were gonna be interviewed, supposedly because they then could prep stories or whatever. But still that seems silly.

One interesting thing to me is that this sort of thing only matters if fans let it. If we collectively just dismiss the NCAA's stupid rules and consider Georgia Tech the 2009 ACC champ or Louisville's basketball program the 2013 NCAA champ (as we should and as the players and coaches do from what I can tell), who cares what some web page nobody visits says or what footnotes they have to put in media guides? We watched the games. The players, fans and coaches celebrated the wins. Unless for some reason we decide we have to pretend to care about Demaryius Thomas getting a watch, that's all that matters. I'm pretty confident that nobody genuinely cares about Demaryius Thomas getting a watch.

 
A fella on twitter made a good point, I thought. Paraphrasing, as long as the kids have a market value the NCAA and the schools won't be able to stop it. Their best bet is to help manage it.

 
Well, while I certainly won’t put it past the Feds to commit a massive over-reach I think everyone should have the proper perspective on this...anything that might bring down Duke and that rat-faced Coach should be embraced and rejoiced.

 
JuniorGong said:
Well, while I certainly won’t put it past the Feds to commit a massive over-reach I think everyone should have the proper perspective on this...anything that might bring down Duke and that rat-faced Coach should be embraced and rejoiced.
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I'd rather see them brought down as God intended: by some random 15 seed like Mercer or Lehigh.

 
We've known Duke & UNC have been dirty for years. Vacate all the wins. I want at least 4 years of major scholarship restrictions and 3 years of being barred from post season play. UNC kids get paid to go to a school so they can then take fake classes. Burn these programs to the ground.

 
Nipsey said:
We've known Duke & UNC have been dirty for years. Vacate all the wins. I want at least 4 years of major scholarship restrictions and 3 years of being barred from post season play. UNC kids get paid to go to a school so they can then take fake classes. Burn these programs to the ground.
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UNC was cleared of that allegation by the NCAA. With that said, I am eager to see what the same organization does with the data that will be provided from the FBI. As noted above, predictably not much will come down from the NCAA. Which will make what the FBI does even more interesting, and stark by contrast.

 
mquinnjr said:
UNC was cleared of that allegation by the NCAA. With that said, I am eager to see what the same organization does with the data that will be provided from the FBI. As noted above, predictably not much will come down from the NCAA. Which will make what the FBI does even more interesting, and stark by contrast.
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And what a complete joke that was.

 
Nipsey said:
We've known Duke & UNC have been dirty for years. Vacate all the wins. I want at least 4 years of major scholarship restrictions and 3 years of being barred from post season play. UNC kids get paid to go to a school so they can then take fake classes. Burn these programs to the ground.
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Bless your heart.

 
Nipsey said:
Burn them down.
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Tell me about it.  I can hardly enjoy a UNC basketball triumph any more- like say the one two nights ago, when Joel Berry ripped the ball away from Syracuse Pascal Chukwu in a tie game with under 2 minutes left and drove for the winning basket in the Carrier Dome and then Syracuse missed three straight shots to tie or take the lead back in the closing minute, forcing the home crowd to suffer through a painful loss that almost certainly destroyed the Orange's chances of joining the defending champion Tar Heels in the NCAA tournament this year- without being haunted by the academic scandal.

 
So is the general scheme that the agency/agents loan players the money, with the hopes that they sign with them when they turn pro. If they go pro and don't sign with them, they try to get the "loan" back. If they do sign with them, they don't have to pay? And most of this circumvents the college teams/coaches?

Just releasing one document seems weird. I mean I guess it's the best Forde could do, but it seems misleading in terms of the scope of what's going on.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Tell me about it.  I can hardly enjoy a UNC basketball triumph any more- like say the one two nights ago, when Joel Berry ripped the ball away from Syracuse Pascal Chukwu in a tie game with under 2 minutes left and drove for the winning basket in the Carrier Dome and then Syracuse missed three straight shots to tie or take the lead back in the closing minute, forcing the home crowd to suffer through a painful loss that almost certainly destroyed the Orange's chances of joining the defending champion Tar Heels in the NCAA tournament this year- without being haunted by the academic scandal.
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Last year's title will be vacated as will the runner-up finish the year before. Your coach will leave the school in disgrace a la Pitino. I forget, did you actually attend the school or are you one of those who grew up watching those Dean Smith teams and jumped on the bandwagon? Also, Cuse WILL be in the field this year. Write it down.

Translated into Swahili: Kichwa cha mwaka jana kitatolewa kama vile mwendeshaji wa kumaliza mwaka uliopita. Kocha wako ataacha shule kwa aibu ya Pitino. Nakisahau, je! Kweli umehudhuria shule au wewe ni mmoja wa wale waliokua wakiangalia timu hizo za Dean Smith na kuruka kwenye bandwagon? Pia, Cuse itakuwa katika shamba mwaka huu. Andika hiyo.

 
Nipsey said:
Last year's title will be vacated as will the runner-up finish the year before. Your coach will leave the school in disgrace a la Pitino. I forget, did you actually attend the school or are you one of those who grew up watching those Dean Smith teams and jumped on the bandwagon? Also, Cuse WILL be in the field this year. Write it down.

Translated into Swahili: Kichwa cha mwaka jana kitatolewa kama vile mwendeshaji wa kumaliza mwaka uliopita. Kocha wako ataacha shule kwa aibu ya Pitino. Nakisahau, je! Kweli umehudhuria shule au wewe ni mmoja wa wale waliokua wakiangalia timu hizo za Dean Smith na kuruka kwenye bandwagon? Pia, Cuse itakuwa katika shamba mwaka huu. Andika hiyo.
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Cool story, guy who probably thinks Carmelo Anthony decided to forgo the NBA draft and millions of dollars and instead move to frigid upstate New York for a year without receiving anything but room and board in return.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
So is the general scheme that the agency/agents loan players the money, with the hopes that they sign with them when they turn pro. If they go pro and don't sign with them, they try to get the "loan" back. If they do sign with them, they don't have to pay? And most of this circumvents the college teams/coaches?

Just releasing one document seems weird. I mean I guess it's the best Forde could do, but it seems misleading in terms of the scope of what's going on.
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Bolded is debatable.  Some would say these kids are being steered to these people by coaches or the coaches just prefer to look the other way knowing about it.  If kids start getting suspended, all of a sudden it's in coaches best interest to care. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
So is the general scheme that the agency/agents loan players the money, with the hopes that they sign with them when they turn pro. If they go pro and don't sign with them, they try to get the "loan" back. If they do sign with them, they don't have to pay? And most of this circumvents the college teams/coaches?

Just releasing one document seems weird. I mean I guess it's the best Forde could do, but it seems misleading in terms of the scope of what's going on.
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You would be crazy to think the coaches dont know

 
Nipsey said:
We've known Duke & UNC have been dirty for years. Vacate all the wins. I want at least 4 years of major scholarship restrictions and 3 years of being barred from post season play. UNC kids get paid to go to a school so they can then take fake classes. Burn these programs to the ground.
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Jim Boeheim 

 
It's both comedic and sad that a UNC fan would try to razz beloved Syracuse alumni over a recent close game that SU lost, especially after this story has come out this morning. Syracuse is at the tail end of dealing with CRIPPLING sanctions. Four years of scholarship restrictions. We have 7 active scholarship players, four who are freshman. We got a post-season ban, years of recruiting restrictions, wins vacated. The program has suffered greatly these last 4 years (still got to a Final 4 in the middle of at all but that's another thread). And why did we get these near-death penalty level of punishment? 3 reasons: 1) An assistant secretary wrote a make-up paper for Fab Melo because the kid couldn't speak english. Dumb thing to do for sure and she was fired. 2) 2 players worked at the YMCA running clinics. Two weeks of clinics were cancelled but they got paid anyway. The horror. 3) One player smoked weed and failed a drug test. The NCAA drug policy doesn't exist. It only says if your school has a drug policy you have to follow it. Well, our drug policy says that after the first offense the parents must be notified. Boeheim decided not to call the parents and talked to the kid himself. The player never had another problem. For those 3 offenses we got NCAA purgatory for 4 years, more if you count the years it takes to fully recover. Boeheim lost wins and was publicly shamed. Kids who had nothing to do with anything lost out of their dream and were forced to transfer because we didn't have the scholarship for them any more. (BJ Johnson, one of the players who had to leave had 29 & 23 the other night for LaSalle. You don't think we miss those guys?) A guy like Rakeem Christmas who put his heart and soul into the program wasn't allowed to play in the NCAA tournament his senior year. If you knew what that kid put in you'd know how devastating that was to him. And now, this morning, after this story breaks that UNC and other schools cheated in ways that make anything SU did look petty in comparison, you actually have the balls to gloat about your cheating, dirty, horrible team pulling out a close game against my school, a school that's been through the ringer for offenses that don't come anywhere close to what been alleged went on at UNC, I say to you: print out the post you wrote, crinkle up the paper and jam it right up your ###. When Williams leaves UNC in shame, when your wins and titles are vacated, when your sanctions are announced I will celebrate like nobody has ever celebrated before. And when you're in the midst of crippling sanctions and SU beats UNC on your home floor, I will find you and rub your nose in it like a nose has never been rubbed in anything before. Your program is going down. Your titles will be vacated. Pain is en route. And the rest of the world will rejoice. :finger:

 
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